Standing Qigong pain issue

[freeform]

Yeah - just remember that it’s something you’re choosing to do. Don't pressure yourself.

 

For me personally I found it useful to be a little forceful in just ‘turning up’ for my training every day.

 

I’d have a specific time that I’d start and made an internal agreement with myself that if I did 5 minutes that would be my training done for the day - if I did more then I did more.

 

I made the commitment to do that for 6 months. And I’d generally do about 1hr, but some days just that 5 minutes.

 

After a while it was the best part of the day. I’d plan my training carefully. Make notes, keep tabs on changes and progress. And it naturally extended in training time.

 

Now I’ve designed my life around my training - because it’s important for me. But I’d dissuade anyone jumping in this way when they’re just starting out (I consider at least the first 5yrs as starting out).

[rideforever]

If you stretch for an hour a day for several years, doesn't that indicate it doesn't work ?

Sung means relax, it doesn't mean force.

 

It seems that ZZ is practiced in different ways, some want to feel energy power and iron shirt, tough it out.

But this is completely contradictory to the way I understand it, which is a progressive total unwinding and relaxing of all the soft tissues in the body so that the energy of heaven/ earth itself will unblock and relax everything, and the practice has qualities of spontaneous qigong, in that it is the natural intelligence of the Dantien that chooses how to practice what to heal and so on ... this is in line with Mark Cohen.

The result of this type of practice is complete opening, plus intimacy with the intelligence of the Dantien, plus total surrender and absorption > it is naturally spiritual and leads to effortless awakening.

 

And it is very very different from those that are doing all the alignment rubbish, nitpicking everything, tensioning themselves and basically controlling the entire practice from the forehead so they can be in charge.   It is 180 degrees opposite of what you are supposed to be doing.

The result of this practice is more force in the mind.

 

Warming up, okay 5 minutes, best is to shake out because it also doesn't involve you getting the measuring tape up and measuring the micro angles between your balls !!!

And the same can be said for many types of work like Taiji, where you have the same two camps, one that is following the Tao and intelligence of energy (connecting to the within), and the other who does everything from their forehead and protractor (worrying about the without).

 

 

Edited February 28, 2019 by rideforever

[Mudfoot]

Youwei before wuwei. 

 

A huge amount of youwei before wuwei. 

(Wang Mu Foundations of internal alchemy, quoting Awakening to reality) 

Edited February 28, 2019 by Mudfoot
Added sentences.

[rideforever]

The idea of purification is a misunderstanding.
A human beings is so full of mess that he has no hope of purifying himself, how can you wash in dirty water ?
The bucket is black and you are going to wash and wash, you are still black.
 

The upshot of this is that all work on oneself has to involve higher forces or awakening, from the beginning, so that the clean is present.
That means when you learn meditation, in Minute 1 you are to have the energy of awakening presented to you, so that you can meditate with it, this happens naturally with an awakened teacher.
With ZZ you open to Heaven energy and let it do the job, good if you learn from someone who has filled himself with it.

The dirty vasana-filled mind-filled person, must not imagine that he is going to clean himself.  How ?

And you see people still after 30 years, still forcing, still purifying, still shouting mantras even louder, bending even lower, for "more energy" ..... they just don't get it.   Another thing is they are the ones who keep going on about their teacher their lineage after decades.   

They should be going on about their awakening, but in this style of practice it didn't happen.

 

As for knowing reality.
It is the same when learning about wood, learn with a good teacher, measure twice cut once, and it's done.

 

Edited February 28, 2019 by rideforever

[Mudfoot]

Spiritual bypassing. 

 

Maybe you mistake building a foundation with getting stuck in a method. 

Edited February 28, 2019 by Mudfoot
Added stuff.

[Rocky Lionmouth]

The practice with alignment andall of that is to make sure people understand HOW to do it. The rest is practice, it is cumulative and should not be forced either way.

Forcing, mentally controlling and mentalizing the practice is going to lead nowhere with the nitpicking and the whathaveyou.

 

Ride, i see your point but i think you might be looking at the high detail practice and explanations as if the idea is to be in mental control, it is not. Once you’ve learned how and what to align to have sung then it has already stopped being a brainy purification exercise or else you would not have found what it’s supposed to feel and be.

Practice correctly one minute is worth 1 hour of sloppy theoretical and/or forceful exercise.

 

I don’t know about supernatural things or heaven and earth energy, but i do sometimes sit on the grass and soak in some sun or take a nice walk in the rain.

 

I think that with just getting in there and doing an exercise like Rain suggests is valuable because you grasp that purely empty moment when you’re just doing and not trying to do.

The whole rigamarole of unlearning and purifying or taking things to repetition and refinement is also good because no such thing as a minute wasted on learning how to use and keep ourselves in use.

 

Learn woodworking, measure and cut, good. What about assembling, sanding for a surface, oiling or finishing somehow. If wood was just measuring and cutting and then we’re done furniture would look hella weird i think.

Edited February 28, 2019 by Rocky Lionmouth

[escott]

On 2/25/2019 at 11:58 AM, awarenessrules said:

Thank You all for your awesome suggestions. Whenever i do some stretching after 5 min standing, it really brings some relief but then again when i do the standing it all starts again. The exercise that helps me most with pain is when i bend my knee and bring it closer to my chest with both hands while lying on my back, it really relaxes the aching muscle. I think i have some muscle weakness in that area.

 

Here is a stretch that has brought me great relief. It was taught to me by a family member who has a master's degree in exercise physiology and a master's degree in physical therapy and is a gym owner and personal trainer.

 

Lie on your back, on the floor. Bring your leg up to your chest like you did above. Use a strap, I use a belt, and put it around your foot and hold each end of the belt with your hands. Straighten your leg out up in air. Hold that for a few seconds, maybe a count of 10, then move your leg out to the side and stretch. Then bring your leg over across your body to the other side.

Edited February 28, 2019 by escott

[freeform]

3 hours ago, Rocky Lionmouth said:

Ride, i see your point but i think you might be looking at the high detail practice and explanations as if the idea is to be in mental control, it is not.

 

That’s exactly right.

 

6 hours ago, rideforever said:

Sung means relax, it doesn't mean force.

 

Sung doesnt mean relax. It means let go. Release.

 

Sung is not melting on the floor in a puddle. There’s a balance to it.

 

It’s releasing anything that’s not needed into a stable structure that you’ve already built. The building takes time. A long time. During that time you’re first mindful of structure and then Sung and Ting - letting go into your structure and absorbing awareness through the body. You can’t Ting if you’re thinking and directing. You won’t build anything without a proper structure. You won’t build proper structure without sung.

 

Once the alignments are in place you don’t need to think about them, just as you don’t need to think about all the alignments involved in walking. But if you don’t build the alignments correctly then you will leak Qi at a later stage when it begins to build and pressurise.

 

6 hours ago, rideforever said:

If you stretch for an hour a day for several years, doesn't that indicate it doesn't work ?

 

No it indicates that I do other things - sit, work, do gardening, physical exercise, sleep etc. Each of those will shape the body in their particular way. And I have to clear away this ‘shape’ every day, so that I’m a clean slate for my training.

[rideforever]

36 minutes ago, freeform said:

Each of those will shape the body in their particular way.

 

Who was your teacher ?

Edited February 28, 2019 by rideforever

[freeform]

55 minutes ago, rideforever said:

 

Who was your teacher ?

 

Ive had many

[thursday]

Standing and sitting meditation work well together for me. With standing it's easier, faster for me to notice when I'm "stuck". Then during sitting I can "relax"/sink better than before. I don't have as much experience as many here, but I feel both types of practices have really helped me over the years with healing mental illness within myself.