Kunlun For Those With Awakened Kundalini?

[Jimmerino]

It's frequently warned not to do kundalini cultivation exercises while working on kunlun. I understand the thinking....one aspect of kunlun is cultivation of rising fire, which it does in a balanced way (i.e. in conjunction with downward watery grounding). So doing other fire cultivation in parallel might upset that balance and lead to unexpected consequences. It makes sense!

 

But....what about those who've already awakened kundalini? For whom kundalini is active without effort or any cultivation exercises? Would it be a mistake for us to engage in kunlun?

 

My kundalini has been awakened for a few years, and all is pretty well, but I'd like some of the grounding kunlun seems to offer.

Edited February 16, 2008 by Jimmerino

[qijack]

WOW you have awakened kundalini?

 

Its a great privilege to have such a highly enlightened being amongst us

 

I would love for you to share the knowledge that kundalini has revealed to you

 

hehe but seriously

 

What indications are there that has convinced you that you have awakened your kundalini?

 

cheers

[Jimmerino]

WOW you have awakened kundalini?

 

Its a great privilege to have such a highly enlightened being amongst us

 

I would love for you to share the knowledge that kundalini has revealed to you

 

hehe but seriously

 

What indications are there that has convinced you that you have awakened your kundalini?

 

cheers

 

 

Ha. Well, first, kundalini awakening has nothing to do with enlightenment. And lots of people have awakened kundalini. And it's truly not that big a deal. And yes, I know you were being ironic.

 

But since I'd rather not divert and digress a topic I'm seriously interested in exploring, let me reply to your final question by saying that I'm absolutely 100% ok with the assumption that I'm 1. cuckoo-for-cocoa-puffs out of my mind, or 2. a sad little man trying to show off on the internet, or 3. somehow gullibly deluded. I can be anything but truly kundalini awakened. That's ok.

 

But humor me.

 

If anyone (Chris? Max-via-Chris?) has insight to offer, please bring it forth.

Edited February 16, 2008 by Jimmerino

[Yoda]

there are many here who have awakened kundalini, so we'll have to see if anyone chimes in.

 

My speculation is that Kunlun would awaken the same chakras that kundalini would with a focus on the grounding qualities of the ltt and the crystal palace over the other chakras and might perhaps do a better job as a practice keeping the third eye/crystal palace area dominant over the crown chakra, which seems to be a problem with many traditional kundalini practices with exceptions of practices like ayp's spinal breathing which builds in measures to keep the third eye more active than the crown and the downward flow in balance with the upward flow.

 

I would say it's worth the $15 to find out, though.

[Trunk]

...one aspect of kunlun is cultivation of rising fire, which it does in a balanced way (i.e. in conjunction with downward watery grounding). So doing other fire cultivation in parallel might upset that balance and lead to unexpected consequences. It makes sense!

Well put.

 

My understanding is that kunlun could be a good thing for someone with awakened-K (as long as it's in a smooth-mellow way), but that probably you'd need to pace yourself more gently (shorter sessions, per your own feel for what is going on).

 

Just my .02.

[Pero]

Sorry but if your kundalini is really awakened what do you need kunlun for?

Edited February 16, 2008 by Pero

[Jimmerino]

Thanks, Yoda and Trunk. Yoda, I've already paid my $20 for the book. Also, interesting that you mention the crown vs ajna issue. Max seems to indicate in several passages of the book that this is a crown-opening practice, which is another concern.

 

Pero, as I said: grounding.

Edited February 16, 2008 by Jimmerino

[Yoda]

It's my understanding that focusing on the third eye will eventually spill over naturally to crown development. My experience of Kunlun is that it seems to develop the third eye and the ltt. I don't know if that's just in my case and others are different or if that's a focus of the practice.

[Jimmerino]

It's my understanding that focusing on the third eye will eventually spill over naturally to crown development.

 

Absolutely. All roads lead to everything opening eventually!

 

But there are several mentions of the primacy of crown opening in Max's book, and no mention of maintaining sambhavi mudra (the standard method of "deviating" to ajna in lieu of direct-to-crown), so your experience is likely to do with preparation you've done in the past. Just speculating!

[Trunk]

sambhavi mudra (the standard method of "deviating" to ajna in lieu of direct-to-crown)

Max teaches a method called "Red Pheonix", which has to do with this area of the brain. I've worked with it only a little and so couldn't really describe the purpose/effects well. But it's in the same geographic area. It's taught after someone well establishes basic kunlun. It's simple. Though no one here will describe RP out of respect for Max, I wonder if you'd be generous with a reference for sambhavi mudra? I'd be interested.

[Jimmerino]

Absolutely. All roads lead to everything opening eventually!

 

But there are several mentions of the primacy of crown opening in Max's book, and no mention of maintaining sambhavi mudra (the standard method of "deviating" to ajna in lieu of direct-to-crown), so your experience is likely to do with preparation you've done in the past. Just speculating!

 

 

Like most of these things, when you hear it it sounds simple....but it has to be done right, done at the right time, and not overdone. But the quick version is you comfortably roll your eyes upward.

 

No idea if it's the same as Red Phoenix. Many roads lead to the same end.

[SiliconValley]

Like most of these things, when you hear it it sounds simple....but it has to be done right, done at the right time, and not overdone. But the quick version is you comfortably roll your eyes upward.

 

No idea if it's the same as Red Phoenix. Many roads lead to the same end.

 

There are various states of Shambhavi Mudra. 'Sham' is auspiciousness and to remain in such a state is the effect induced by Shambhavi Mudra. The ramifications of this mudra are different in Hatha Yoga and Tantra.

 

According to Hatha Yoga, in Shambhavi Mudra, Yogi focuses his sight on an external object but the perception of this focus is turned inwards. He gazes at an external object without blinking, but the focus really is internal. The Mind and Prana are focused simultaneously on an internal Chakra, which could be any Chakra from Mooladhara to Ajna. Turning the gaze outwards, drawing the mind inwards, and keeping both focussed on one object is the essence of Shambhavi Mudra. This Mudra has been popularly employed to gaze at Kutastha or the point between the brows but the application of this Mudra is not limited to Ajna alone.

 

In left-handed Tantra, this Mudra has a total different approach. Mudras like Shambhavi, Shivalata are used to awaken and lead Kundalini in various ways using sexual techniques. Shambhavi Mudra involves copulation here, while focusing on certain specific parts of one's partner in a peculiar Mudra.

 

Shanmukhi mudra or the 'Closing of the six gates' is called Shambhavi Mudra when the seventh gate - i.e. the mind is closed by stilling it completely. Thus, this Mudra is the result of Laya Yoga, where the mind is employed to dissolve itself.

 

In Classic Tantra, Shambhavi Mudra is more so a state. The state where thoughtlessness is preserved unconditionally. The state leading to this Mudra primarily is called Shambhav Upaya or the the path of Shambhava, where there is no effort on the part of the aspirant whatsoever to enter this state. There is no effort, no technique, no path or no goal. It just happens effortlessly through Divine Grace and there is no effort to preserve this state.

Edited February 16, 2008 by SiliconValley

[Trunk]

Like most of these things, when you hear it it sounds simple....but it has to be done right, done at the right time, and not overdone. But the quick version is you comfortably roll your eyes upward.

 

No idea if it's the same as Red Phoenix. Many roads lead to the same end.

Here's the link to sambhavi at AYP, and a post about it from their forum. (Not sure if that's the same version as you're familiar with.) Powerful maneuver. I'd want to be more clear how it integrates with the yogic procedure as a whole. A lot of people here have been happy with AYP...

 

Red Phx has a different result~feel to it, is a different method (but in the region of the brain as I said before). And I'm not clear how it integrates with the kunlun system.

 

How's that for a lot o' nuthin?

[qijack]

Ha. Well, first, kundalini awakening has nothing to do with enlightenment. And lots of people have awakened kundalini. And it's truly not that big a deal. And yes, I know you were being ironic.

 

So uniting one self with the supreme being lord shiva, Perceiving infinite bliss and awakening spiritual powers ( siddhis) is not a big deal hey?

 

You truly must be blessed if you are experiencing these things and can think of them as being not a big deal lol

Edited February 16, 2008 by truth

[Cameron]

I believe Max actually says Kunlun and Red Phoenix are before Kundalini(no idea what that means) and if I am not mistaken last time I saw him he even said Red Phoenix is the root of Kundalini and the practice originated in Egypt before it went to India, China etc.

 

I could be confusing things. Something you start to pick up after studying with Max is he is/was deeply connected with an ancient egyptian mystery school called the School of Anubis.

 

So obviously each culture/system would have there own languange in defining these things but possibly related to the same energies(or not!).

 

For example, at one point during one of the last workshops, if I am not mistaken, Max referred to the lower tan tien as the "gate of Anubis" so I am presuming that would be the egyptian school's name for the same energy center.

 

He even mentioned the different schools like Horus, Set, Ra etc represented different energy centers along the core channel(tan tiens,chakras) and that in ancient Egypt the Nile River represented the core channel and these mystery schools were set on different parts of the Nile.

 

I could be wrong, but just to let you know Max will throw alot of his Egyptian stuff in to explain things which most people(like me) really didn't know much before. But it's cool to learn about.

 

Umm..so not sure if that was helpful but am at home sick with the flu so there you go

[Yoda]

Max does say that Kundalini and Kunlun are two different energies.

[Jimmerino]

So uniting one self with the supreme being lord shiva, Perceiving infinite bliss and awakening spiritual powers ( siddhis) is not a big deal hey?

 

You truly must be blessed if you are experiencing these things and can think of them as being not a big deal lol

 

 

Oh, yes, I forgot to add, above: it's ALSO fine with me if you assume I haven't the slightest notion of kundalini, yoga, or the spiritual path. If there's any other way I need to prove myself, please deem me irredeemably failed so we can move past the invaluable contemptuous debunking phase and return to using this thread to answer my question.

[MatthewQi]

It's frequently warned not to do kundalini cultivation exercises while working on kunlun. I understand the thinking....one aspect of kunlun is cultivation of rising fire, which it does in a balanced way (i.e. in conjunction with downward watery grounding). So doing other fire cultivation in parallel might upset that balance and lead to unexpected consequences. It makes sense!

 

But....what about those who've already awakened kundalini? For whom kundalini is active without effort or any cultivation exercises? Would it be a mistake for us to engage in kunlun?

 

My kundalini has been awakened for a few years, and all is pretty well, but I'd like some of the grounding kunlun seems to offer.

 

Jimmerino,

 

I can relate to needing some grounding after K awakening. I think a lot of people feel this and even if they don't when they get some healthy feedback, it is usually for grounding. I don't think you need to learn a whole system to get that though but if you are drawn to it, I think you will intuitively know what is right for you and if something is not (see caveat below).

 

I recently read a book that talked about this subject. It advised against practicing a totally different system after awakening. It said it was fine to practice a system that you had done prior to awakening. Since you say you didn't do any practice before awakening, it is important to know that the Kundalini has it all handle. It is more the challenge to get out of it's way. Yet, any practice that you do that helps to open you up to ease the process you may find helpful.

 

I did practice other stuff after awakening but didn't feel that a whole system was worth my time or beneficial. But the nice thing is that you can pick and choose what you need (vs. crossing systems pre-awakening haphazardly). So I think that is totally good stuff. You will intuitively know what is right for you. If you aren't able to get in touch with your intuition and flow, then you might want to focus on strictly grounding and calming stuff.

 

I think the danger in doing a complete system or anything post awakening (the caveat) is in our little mind trying to regain control of that which is to be surrendered to. This leads back to a lot of fear that you are not confronting or able to let go of. If the practice helps you to let go into your being then that is a good thing If you find yourself getting obsessive about it then it may be conterproductive to the surrendering which is the challange of post awakeing.

 

I have been doing yoga for the last 2 years and it is great for me and extremely grounding. It helps me in my surrender while also providing a great physical workout and an opportunity to meet interesting people of similar interest in spirituality (not a lot of taoist walking around meeting up to practice).

 

A practice like primordial chi gung or earth rooting would be good for grounding from an energetic perspective. So could just spending time in nature, physicall exercise, reading, getting into some activity that you are drawn to, music, art, etc.

 

Here is a simple practice that I found and did after awakening:

 

http://kundalini-teacher.com/meditations/gr_anim.php

 

There are also some really good lists and forums of K awakened people that I can share with you if you want. Especially if you need some good advice based on what other peoples experiences have been. I haven't seen a situation that someone hasn't directly had knowledge of yet in order to give some insight or support if needed.

 

Best,

 

Matt

[Wun Yuen Gong]

Max mentions that Kundalini and his Tibetan Thunder Breathing shouldnt be mixed as its more powerful as its dealing with Lightning which is stronger then Fire (kundalini). He says its a bye bye Trip and you will bring on the fire!

 

Has anyone of you done his Thunder Breathing?

 

WYG

 

Jimmerino,

 

Can you tell me what your experiecne was and what it feels like to have it open?

 

cheers

WYG

[Gino]

I feel that this is the first time I can give knowledge that is actually useful. Careful, it's long--

 

When I first came to this site I was interested in Kunlun and I kept on reading about it and how fast people just "opened up" at the seminars. I was really interested and so I bought the book and practiced Kunlun once a day for five days.

 

Each time I practiced, I either felt like nothing happened (my knees bounced but it felt like it was because of physiological reasons - strain in the muscles, not spiritual) or dizzy as hell. One time I felt like someone stuck their fist in my stomach and kept it there for a day. I felt horrible and gross. Within a week I tried to go back to it but something felt wrong and off about the whole thing so I still avoided it.

 

I completely dropped the practice and just floated around on this website reading some of the posts and I finally looked up Kundalini after all this hub-bub about how its harmful to mix Kunlun and Kundalini. The more that I read, the more sense everything that I felt or experienced became. I finally realized that for the better half of my life, my Kundalini was awakened and I've been harmfully experimenting with it (are there any good resources for Kundalini-awakened peeps? - PM me)

 

I never brought up any of the symptoms to my parents save only the ringing in my ears that I've recently went to an EMT about just to see if all of this was true. He stated that my hearing is normal and that I don't appear to have medical issue. He stated that the only probable cause for my ringing was that I was picking up on extra-ordinarily high pitched sounds emitting from electrical equipment. I visited him again to test for hearing after six months and in the sound proof room that they test for hearing which have only connectors for headphones, the ringing started again and soon disappeared. He threw his hands up and said that he doesn't know what's "wrong' with me but that I'm medically fine.

 

It's nice knowing what I've been experiencing for about 7~8 years of my 19 year old life but at the same time frightening that something really horrible can happen to me because of it. From my experience, if you have awakened Kundalini, I can say try it once but if you physically feel sick or feel, like intuition, that something is wrong or off, drop it and contact a knowledgeable person before continuing. However, I am just a simple man who is just talking from experience not knowledge and still doesn't have a practice. Listen to the other guys first before listening to me because I really don't know much at all.

Edited February 17, 2008 by Gino

[mgd]

Max does say that Kundalini and Kunlun are two different energies.

 

Speaking from my own experience, kriyas feel like the Kunlun movements.

 

Is there a possibility that the Kunlun movements are kriyas and somehow part of the Kundalini experience?

Edited April 7, 2008 by mgd

[mgd]

So uniting one self with the supreme being lord shiva, Perceiving infinite bliss and awakening spiritual powers ( siddhis) is not a big deal hey?

 

You truly must be blessed if you are experiencing these things and can think of them as being not a big deal lol

 

 

Re: siddhis

 

Are not something to strive for or fixate on.

 

They are merely obstacles that clutter your

path and mind.

 

But that's just one woman's opinion FWIW.

Edited February 17, 2008 by mgd

[Jimmerino]

Gino, your issues deserve their own discussion. And that might be most appropriate on a yoga forum,, since yogis seem to have more focus of kundalini. A good one is the site mentioned by many others in this thread, AYP http://www.aypsite.org/forum . There's a forum there, and you'll be well advised. One quick note: ringing in the ears (more often a high-pitched buzzing) is very much a kundalini symptom. It's the energy coursing by your ear canals. It drove me, too, to a hearing test where I was pronounced ok. Knowing that nothing's actually wrong, it doesn't bother me much.

 

Matt, many thanks for your kind, thorough reply. Kundalini awakening was several years ago, so I'm not, like, in the first blush of some sort of horrific grounding meltdown . And I WAS doing practices (am a longtime yogi), just not deliberately cultivating kundalini, per se. I agree with just about everything you said. It's not that I'm questing for a new practice so much as wanting to resolve my continuing imbalance (not horrific...just sort of lingering). I've tried lots of little techniques and "hacks", and it's definitely helped, but I always have my antenna up...and that's how I found out about kunlun. And I'm definitely proceeding cautiously...e.g. starting this thread!

 

Regarding this: "I think the danger in doing a complete system or anything post awakening (the caveat) is in our little mind trying to regain control of that which is to be surrendered to." Boy, you said it. But that's true before, during, after...at any stage of anything we do. "I" want to take credit for it all...want to frame and name the experience....want to use it to fortify the imaginary boundary between my skin bag and What Is. Even my recognition of this silly process can feed the process (awareness of pride leads to pride of awareness). As I said in my intro posting on the "Lobby" board, higher power comes from a higher power, and "I" have very little to do with it...though my individual ego mind will gladly take credit for that which is achieved via its restraint!

Edited February 17, 2008 by Jimmerino

[witch]

Thank you for this thread! I had just made up my mind to try Kunlun because I'm curious (and lazy). But this has convinced me to hold back.

[mYTHmAKER]

If you want to ground do a standing practice.

Wu wei - arms at sides focus on your tan tien.

Knees slightly bent. Legs shoulder width apart.

Don't try to do anything let whatever happens happen naturally.

My teachers always said natural no forcing.

 

My kundalina was opened many years ago just some visions,

ringing in ears, sonic boom, trumpet. these occurred only in meditation.

Third eye travel through the tunnel.

Some experiences were to subtle to know theywere happening at the time.

 

Now I stand and do some sitting.

I always focus on my tan tien whether walking, sitting, running etc.