Tin Yat Dao Sect

[Aetherous]

It could've just been a kind of chaos magic, law of attraction, or placebo effect type thing, when Yoda's problems stopped after applying what appeared to be a solution to the problems.

Or maybe the talismans etc were legit. I mean, that's truly a possibility too. The source of them is silly, but sometimes silly people can have learned magic, too.

Either way, it was unfortunate that he felt like it was bad enough that he had to leave the forum and break contact with his fellow cultivators. Such a thing, in my mind, really looks like the beginnings of joining a dangerous cult. As such, I hope he's not associated with Mak Tin Si anymore, and is carefree and enjoying life.

[joeblast]

I hope Yoda's path is flourishing no matter where he is, even if he's still doing what we may consider to be funny ornamental daoistey stuff.  Its not exactly out of the question that one's master would advise against the shit shows that forums often wind up being. 

[idquest]

On 03/03/2019 at 9:59 AM, lifeforce said:

This is just too much !😂

https://youtu.be/E7uNUAkcrik

 

So I watched a beginning of this video and I'm curious as to what exactly you found so hilarious there. On several occasions I have found that his understanding is in fact deep however ridiculous he might appear. Not a fan of him, this is for sure.

Edited March 23, 2019 by idquest

[Rocky Lionmouth]

I don’t think its hilarious, rather the opposite.

 

By no means do i wish to disrespect the rules, so i shall edit further.

Edited March 24, 2019 by Rocky Lionmouth

[flowing hands]

1 hour ago, idquest said:

 

So I watched a beginning of this video and I'm curious as to what exactly you found so hilarious there. On several occasions I have found that his understanding is in fact deep however ridiculous he might appear. Not a fan of him, this is for sure.

 

Sorry to say you must have very little understanding yourself! What he's saying is complete nonsense. The only thing that's right is his pronunciation of 'Dao', "Do". The rest is just rubbish. Ever seen a Dao practitioner salute like that? Look at the hand he is holding. Most genuine sects either have left hand over right fist or if they have  some influence from Buddhism, palms together. Look at the alter, genuine Dao sects have no fruit or offerings and I don't even recognise the figures he's put there. He never used to have any figures, but as he gets more info so he alters to try to be ahead of the game. He calls himself a "Si Gung" (Grand Master). Most genuine sects of religious Dao have an Immortal as the head of the sect. So the head of my sect is Hua Tuo Xian Shi. So the three Immortal Masters that I follow are the source of the power and teachings that I use. They always come first, are always invoked to do the healing etc. and more importantly are the head of the sect.

[Kar3n]

Let's remember the person being insulted here is a member of this forum thereby protected under the insult policy, forum rules and terms of service.

 

Some food for thought... Perhaps the folks here calling him an idiot and ridiculous ought to be searching to heal themselves of what causes them to stoop to such low levels so as to denigrate another while pointing to immortals to back self-ascribed credentials.

[Rocky Lionmouth]

@flowing hands re the fruit and offerings, you’ve never seen it? I have and i do, i’ve been instructed to offer certain fruit and other things, but my instruction is southern, i don’t know if this might be relevant.

[flowing hands]

17 hours ago, Kar3n said:

Let's remember the person being insulted here is a member of this forum thereby protected under the insult policy, forum rules and terms of service.

 

Some food for thought... Perhaps the folks here calling him an idiot and ridiculous ought to be searching to heal themselves of what causes them to stoop to such low levels so as to denigrate another while pointing to immortals to back self-ascribed credentials.

 

 

 

As a genuine Holy man, one of my jobs is to protect the innocent, to expose that which is corrupt; that would lead to the abuse of others. This man denigrates the good name of many practitioners and abuses the name of many of the Immortals in Heaven. All for the sake of making money and furthering his ego. Some food for thought, If you are really happy about this, and are offering him protection under officialdom, then I feel very sorry for you and I think you need to think about what sort of character you are and what you are doing. (the man in question will happily use the F word constantly to describe all manner of things). Perhaps you should be finding in yourself the spirit to fight evil in whatever guise it forms. Give evil power and you in fact will become just as bad as it. The man in question is an i...t; he abuses the practice of Daoism in all its aspects for the sake of money and ego and it is not as if he is offering anything that is actually genuine from a genuine sect, he made it up himself.

Your comments are also "self ascribed", other than being a mod what qualifications have you got to make comment on others yourself and their standing? Please let me know and others here a cv of your training and under what master etc. so we may see where you are coming from. Thanks

Edited March 24, 2019 by flowing hands
expand on point

[flowing hands]

12 hours ago, Rocky Lionmouth said:

@flowing hands re the fruit and offerings, you’ve never seen it? I have and i do, i’ve been instructed to offer certain fruit and other things, but my instruction is southern, i don’t know if this might be relevant.

 

Many sects have sadly gone from the Dao path and taken on some Hindu and Buddhist beliefs. So one sees now the offering of incense and fruit etc. If one understands the DDJ, it is your heart and faith that are important, not incense. Modern Dao religion is not like it was many years ago it is more like a folk religion that constantly evolves as people take on various practices that they see others do.

[Rocky Lionmouth]

1 hour ago, flowing hands said:

 

Many sects have sadly gone from the Dao path and taken on some Hindu and Buddhist beliefs. So one sees now the offering of incense and fruit etc. If one understands the DDJ, it is your heart and faith that are important, not incense. Modern Dao religion is not like it was many years ago it is more like a folk religion that constantly evolves as people take on various practices that they see others do.

 

Thats true, and we are primarily a daoist group under Sifu but buddhism is a strong influence in their lineage from way back. For me the incense and wine i offer are more like offering an honored guest something to drink, it’s for him. But more formally if i need to ask for guidance or something important as a supplicant. But as you say, the relationship with the deity the important bit, open heart and empty mind are what builds it i have found.

[flowing hands]

12 minutes ago, Rocky Lionmouth said:

 

Thats true, and we are primarily a daoist group under Sifu but buddhism is a strong influence in their lineage from way back. For me the incense and wine i offer are more like offering an honored guest something to drink, it’s for him. But more formally if i need to ask for guidance or something important as a supplicant. But as you say, the relationship with the deity the important bit, open heart and empty mind are what builds it i have found.

 

What sect are you from and who is the deity that you believe in? Are you from Malaysia?

[Rocky Lionmouth]

2 minutes ago, flowing hands said:

 

What sect are you from and who is the deity that you believe in? Are you from Malaysia?

 

I’m not in priestly training if thats what you mean, i am studying a family style of hei gung kung fu under Sifu, he’s started transmitting how to worship but i cant tell you more of where their spiritual training comes from at the moment, they are southern in origin but came by way of Vietnam to Europe. His ritual training, energy and Feng Shui is solid, but i lack academic insight to trace it and it hasn’t come up yet where he studied, probably with his grandfather for the basics but i cant say if he has a formal rank in priesthood.

It’s very basic stuff for me yet. Our primary deity is Guan Sing Dai or Guan Gung, but i know Sifu also worships Guan Yin.

[Kar3n]

4 hours ago, flowing hands said:

 

 

 

As a genuine Holy man, one of my jobs is to protect the innocent, to expose that which is corrupt; that would lead to the abuse of others. This man denigrates the good name of many practitioners and abuses the name of many of the Immortals in Heaven. All for the sake of making money and furthering his ego. Some food for thought, If you are really happy about this, and are offering him protection under officialdom, then I feel very sorry for you and I think you need to think about what sort of character you are and what you are doing. (the man in question will happily use the F word constantly to describe all manner of things). Perhaps you should be finding in yourself the spirit to fight evil in whatever guise it forms. Give evil power and you in fact will become just as bad as it. The man in question is an i...t; he abuses the practice of Daoism in all its aspects for the sake of money and ego and it is not as if he is offering anything that is actually genuine from a genuine sect, he made it up himself.

Your comments are also "self ascribed", other than being a mod what qualifications have you got to make comment on others yourself and their standing? Please let me know and others here a cv of your training and under what master etc. so we may see where you are coming from. Thanks

So let me get this straight...

 

A self-proclaimed holy man insults a member of this forum out of duty and then further wants to come at me personally while I am merely pointing out the rules and the terms of service you, the holy man,  have agreed to?

 

Nah, "holy man", you're just another member from where I'm standing and are bound by the rules and terms of service. If you want to fight evil do it somewhere else. Long story, short, stop insulting people.

[Mudfoot]

14 minutes ago, Kar3n said:

bound by the rules and terms of service.

All clergy end up the same. Given a chance, they go from spiritual service to the expansion and dominion of their own belief. 

 

Good to know that daoists fall in the same trap as the semitic religions. 

 

After that, it is only a matter of how much power you get. 

[Mudfoot]

5 hours ago, flowing hands said:

 

 

 

As a genuine Holy man, one of my jobs is to protect the innocent, to expose that which is corrupt; 

Here on the 'bums, we ridicule everybody, and anyone can be suspended or banned. And all are considered equal. 

The first is the mission of many bums, the second is up to the mods as bound by the rules of this forum. The third is just annoying 🤪

 

No spiritual support is needed for either. 

[flowing hands]

44 minutes ago, Kar3n said:

So let me get this straight...

 

A self-proclaimed holy man insults a member of this forum out of duty and then further wants to come at me personally while I am merely pointing out the rules and the terms of service you, the holy man,  have agreed to?

 

Nah, "holy man", you're just another member from where I'm standing and are bound by the rules and terms of service. If you want to fight evil do it somewhere else. Long story, short, stop insulting people.

 

Interesting.........let me get it straight;  You are pulling me up about my calling a member here an "idiot", but your quite happy about calling me a "self proclaimed Holyman"!  Trying to undermine who I am. That's ok is it, because you're a mod?

 

I have been through all your post on TDB's and 'Living Unbound' and really you don't appear to know nothing of the Dao De Jing!  You have virtually done no posting on the threads at all that involve this major and central work to Dao thought and practice. I wonder why..........? But its ok for you to call me a "self proclaimed Holyman", so you're being snide and belittling; that's fine isn't it!????

 

Daoist.. nah?    You are to me a 'nothing' with Christian overtones, who dabbles here and there, who thinks that being a mod on a Daoist forum gives you the right to undermine my genuine practice, which looks to me like you have none of, just read a few books, but obviously not the DDJ, or any other major Daoist book.

I am a Baptized, not "self proclaimed", witnessed by others, accepted and fully trained Daoist Holyman, whether you like it or not (which obviously you don't, some prejudice coming out I think). 

I think if you don't even know much about the DDJ, it is definitely you who should be going else where, because you have insulted me by calling me a "self proclaimed", and your not even a Daoist.

 

For your information: during baptism, when we are taken over the 'Bridge of life'  and then baptised, we make a vow to the Heavenly Immortals. The bridge which we physically walk over behind the wu (Shaman) who is in a trance of an Immortal, takes us from being bound by earthly things to that of spiritual things. To you, it may be that to challenge openly that which is evil or wrong is not right, but to us it is our job and we are bound to do this whether it is political, social injustice, abuse of other living things or whether like this thread it is someone who is blatantly abusing their position and using falsehood to hoodwink others. I might have wrongly used the term "idiot', to many this is very mild to what they would call your precious member.

 

 My strong advice to you is to take your own medicine and stick to the rules yourself, or keep your thoughts to yourself.

[Kar3n]

10 minutes ago, flowing hands said:

 

Interesting.........let me get it straight;  You are pulling me up about my calling a member here an "idiot", but your quite happy about calling me a "self proclaimed Holyman"!  Trying to undermine who I am. That's ok is it, because you're a mod?

 

I have been through all your post on TDB's and 'Living Unbound' and really you don't appear to know nothing of the Dao De Jing!  You have virtually done no posting on the threads at all that involve this major and central work to Dao thought and practice. I wonder why..........? But its ok for you to call me a "self proclaimed Holyman", so you're being snide and belittling; that's fine isn't it!????

 

Daoist.. nah?    You are to me a 'nothing' with Christian overtones, who dabbles here and there, who thinks that being a mod on a Daoist forum gives you the right to undermine my genuine practice, which looks to me like you have none of, just read a few books, but obviously not the DDJ, or any other major Daoist book.

I am a Baptized, not "self proclaimed", witnessed by others, accepted and fully trained Daoist Holyman, whether you like it or not (which obviously you don't, some prejudice coming out I think). 

I think if you don't even know much about the DDJ, it is definitely you who should be going else where, because you have insulted me by calling me a "self proclaimed", and your not even a Daoist.

 

For your information: during baptism, when we are taken over the 'Bridge of life'  and then baptised, we make a vow to the Heavenly Immortals. The bridge which we physically walk over behind the wu (Shaman) who is in a trance of an Immortal, takes us from being bound by earthly things to that of spiritual things. To you, it may be that to challenge openly that which is evil or wrong is not right, but to us it is our job and we are bound to do this whether it is political, social injustice, abuse of other living things or whether like this thread it is someone who is blatantly abusing their position and using falsehood to hoodwink others. I might have wrongly used the term "idiot', to many this is very mild to what they would call your precious member.

 

 My strong advice to you is to take your own medicine and stick to the rules yourself, or keep your thoughts to yourself.

Who I am, what I am and what I stand for a really none of your business. You seriously want to personally attack me? You're barking up the wrong tree.

 

Enjoy a nice 3-day suspension.

[Rocky Lionmouth]

 

I gotta say it Hands: righteous indignation don’t look good on anyone no matter on whose mandate their duty is bound. If you are a man of duty respect another who might hold the exact same conviction and dedication as you do. Taking it out on Kar3n, who holds rank by induction here whilst IN here, thats your face getting lost. Remember what you said to me about heart and faith? Yeah, thats the one.

[thelerner]

I wrote this in another thread about another system, but wonder how universally applicable it is?

18 minutes ago, thelerner said:

 

One other question and its kind of a trick one.  Is it, in any way cultish?  that's a trick question because if it was cultish, a member wouldn't consider it so..  how do they deal with opposing thoughts and conflicts?  How much 'my way or highway' is it?  Is there money creep whereby advanced levels/lessons get more expensive?   Does he set himself up as ..the superior being who has all the answers? 

Outsiders can guess and make assumptions, but its so much better to get an insiders honest answers. 

Edited March 26, 2019 by thelerner

[liminal_luke]

I´ve no idea about the Tin Yat Dao Sect but I know Yoda from his postings way back when and was very fond of him. He came off as a genuine good guy.  Yoda was (is?) that rare spiritual seeker type with a bold -- dare I say fun -- experimental streak.  I enjoyed following his spiritual adventures.  

[Earl Grey]

On 3/21/2019 at 1:03 AM, joeblast said:

Regardless of what people's opinions are about the guy, it is a fact that when our dear ol pal Yoda got the visitors he kept wishing for and they would not stop bothering his entire family and would not go away when asked, Mak Tin Si's efforts saw Yoda's family have some peace from the now-unwanted visitors.

 

I'm not saying it was strong enough to turn goat piss into gasoline, but the fu's and such worked in an actual we-know-this-guy case.

 

Proof be in puddin' *shrugs*

 

On 3/21/2019 at 4:20 AM, Aetherous said:

It could've just been a kind of chaos magic, law of attraction, or placebo effect type thing, when Yoda's problems stopped after applying what appeared to be a solution to the problems.

Or maybe the talismans etc were legit. I mean, that's truly a possibility too. The source of them is silly, but sometimes silly people can have learned magic, too.

Either way, it was unfortunate that he felt like it was bad enough that he had to leave the forum and break contact with his fellow cultivators. Such a thing, in my mind, really looks like the beginnings of joining a dangerous cult. As such, I hope he's not associated with Mak Tin Si anymore, and is carefree and enjoying life.

 

Fu talismans are not hard to make honestly and with The Tao of Craft by Benebell Wen they are quite accessible to even the most uninitiated individual. There is a price to be paid for using them though... but that’s not for the subject at hand.

 

I am not a fan of MJS and Miss Wen and I both agree that he says funny things. The worst I saw was when he wrote in one of his many sites that Buddhism was demonic and what does he post to support it? A picture of a video game character, Gouki (Akuma in the US), and says that this is a Buddhist demon and to stay away from Buddhism. 

 

http://tantrismuskritik.blogspot.com/2013/05/taoism-vs-tibetan-buddhism.html

 

https://eldercraigblog2012.wordpress.com/2014/04/19/mak-jo-si-www-chiinanture-com-fake-daoist-god-aka-demon-worship-busted/

Edited March 29, 2019 by Earl Grey

[flowing hands]

On 3/24/2019 at 7:00 PM, Kar3n said:

Who I am, what I am and what I stand for a really none of your business. You seriously want to personally attack me? You're barking up the wrong tree.

 

Enjoy a nice 3-day suspension.

 

Now I begin to understand.... Married to Jonesboy who has been on my threads and presented contrary and provocative arguments at anything I might have said, and you, using your position to suspend me for questioning your motives. Hang on I can't see that in the rules, nor can I see looking at people's posts and seeing where they are at, as an offensive procedure against the rules. We are talking about the rules that govern all of us on TDB's are we not? We can all see what we say and post, there's nothing covert or wrong about this. If you look at mine they are 98% in the DDJ section. One would conclude that I am very interested in Dao writings? You will never see me posting on the New Testament or the Bible in general or other religions because of many reasons. So........

 

But undermining my title and position is and as explained by using words like "self ascribed", "self proclaimed",  "na.. Holyman" is belittling and is just as bad if not worse than calling someone an "i...t". Basically your saying that according to your 'supreme' judgement, I'm not what I say I am; is this what you are saying?

 

I might add that the term "i...t" means a person of low intelligence. So tell me, if I said he was a person of low intelligence that would be acceptable would it?

 

I can also see that politics come into this; I have openly critizied Trump and judging by posts that both you and Jonesboy have put up, you appear to be Republicans? If this is true then here is a source of aggravation towards me. If I was an American citizen (living in Arizona, which I have visited) I would be a Democrat. Religous Dao followers are normally towards helping the poor and not themselves so would vote for a socialist based political party. They would also want to help other living things and the environment. Republicans are basically capitalists and don't really give a damn about other people (they brought slavery to America) of a lesser fortune or social scale, nor the environment as a whole and as long as the money machine keeps going the environment can go to hell and so can the poor. We have a similar right wing government in my country and its just rubbish for anyone who is poor. More people are now living from food banks and living rough than at any time since the second world war and we live in the 21st century and yet the rich are still getting fantastically wealthier on the backs of the poor. Still the government cries 'this policy creates jobs and opportunities and investment'. Na ...huge lie.

 

Before I leave, I would like to see some appropriate answers. 

 

 

[Mudfoot]

38 minutes ago, flowing hands said:

 

But undermining my title and position is and as explained by using words like "self ascribed", "self proclaimed",  "na.. Holyman" is belittling and is just as bad if not worse than calling someone an "i...t". Basically your saying that according to your 'supreme' judgement, I'm not what I say I am; is this what you are saying?

According to TDB rules (someone will probably post that here) your title and position in your lineage or congregation carries no weight here, if you claim authority here you are "self-appointed". 

You might not like it, but that is beside the point. 

 

The bums is built from a café model, which means that a rank beginner may argue against you in a subject you are an recognized expert in, and you still are supposed to be civil about it. 

Quote

 

I might add that the term "i...t" means a person of low intelligence. So tell me, if I said he was a person of low intelligence that would be acceptable would it?

Only if you have his IQ test ready. 

Quote

 

Before I leave, I would like to see some appropriate answers. 

 

 

I'm sure more will come. 

Everybody likes a show. 

[Kar3n]

2 hours ago, flowing hands said:

Now I begin to understand.... Married to Jonesboy who has been on my threads and presented contrary and provocative arguments at anything I might have said, and you, using your position to suspend me for questioning your motives.

I am sorry to say your understanding is flawed. To whom I am married and your interactions with him are of no consequence to action against you for insulting another member of this forum, being reminded of the rules in a general statement and personally attacking me and my character.

 

Quote

Hang on I can't see that in the rules, nor can I see looking at people's posts and seeing where they are at, as an offensive procedure against the rules. We are talking about the rules that govern all of us on TDB's are we not? We can all see what we say and post, there's nothing covert or wrong about this.

The rules of TDB are easily accessible in Forum and Tech Support. Perhaps you could refresh your knowledge of them before we have that discussion. I recommend the insult policy, the founding principles and the topic regarding personal attacks.

 

Quote

If you look at mine they are 98% in the DDJ section. One would conclude that I am very interested in Dao writings? You will never see me posting on the New Testament or the Bible in general or other religions because of many reasons. So........

Under the Egalitarian principle of TDB, every member is free to post in any topic of their choosing so long as the rules are followed.

 

Quote

But undermining my title and position is and as explained by using words like "self ascribed", "self proclaimed",  "na.. Holyman" is belittling and is just as bad if not worse than calling someone an "i...t". Basically your saying that according to your 'supreme' judgement, I'm not what I say I am; is this what you are saying?

I called you nothing you did not call yourself, ie Holyman. Nothing I said was meant to undermine any title or position. Anything you wish to call yourself is only relevant outside of the walls of TDB and does not place you above the rules nor act as justification for ignoring them. You are self-proclaimed as far as I can tell on this forum, last I checked your status here was that of a Dao Bum. There is no supreme here except Sean.

 

Quote

 

I might add that the term "i...t" means a person of low intelligence. So tell me, if I said he was a person of low intelligence that would be acceptable would it?

Both are an insult. End of Story.

 

Quote

I can also see that politics come into this; I have openly critizied Trump and judging by posts that both you and Jonesboy have put up, you appear to be Republicans? If this is true then here is a source of aggravation towards me. If I was an American citizen (living in Arizona, which I have visited) I would be a Democrat. Religous Dao followers are normally towards helping the poor and not themselves so would vote for a socialist based political party. They would also want to help other living things and the environment. Republicans are basically capitalists and don't really give a damn about other people (they brought slavery to America) of a lesser fortune or social scale, nor the environment as a whole and as long as the money machine keeps going the environment can go to hell and so can the poor. We have a similar right wing government in my country and its just rubbish for anyone who is poor. More people are now living from food banks and living rough than at any time since the second world war and we live in the 21st century and yet the rich are still getting fantastically wealthier on the backs of the poor. Still the government cries 'this policy creates jobs and opportunities and investment'. Na ...huge lie.

My political leanings, where I live, religious Dao and your opinions of them are also irrelevant to your breach of the rules of TDB.

 

Quote

Before I leave, I would like to see some appropriate answers.

Appropriate is subjective. I owe you nothing further; it is spelled out in my above posts.

 

Fair warning- Personal attacks and insults will result in a longer suspension. Further, the sharing of personal information about members on this forum is a bannable offense.

[Zhongyongdaoist]

Moderator Notice

 

3 hours ago, flowing hands said:

Before I leave, I would like to see some appropriate answers.

 

Here is an appropriate answer for you:

 

On 9/23/2013 at 7:31 PM, Trunk said:

The staff (admins, moderators) also deserve and have protection against uncivility and against abuse of staff resources.  Staff protection is enforced at the discretion of the admin.  The admin also has broad discretion to protect the civility and resources of any aspect within TDBs e-community.

 

Dao Bums policies mean that moderators should not be sassed, nor their time, one of their most important "resources", wasted, arguing with members about staff suggestions or actions, if you have a complaint your recourse is to contact the Admin, dawei.

 

If you do not desist from harassing Kar3n, I will suspend you for three days myself.

 

This is an official notice, do not sass me about it.

 

Zhongyongdaoist, Concierge