Big Brother Really Has Arrived!!!

[Patrick Brown]

Well with all the chaos going on in the western world I don't think the east should become complacent as I don't think the youth of China or Japan are going tolerate the current social oppression happening to them. 

 

 

[freeform]

5 minutes ago, Patrick Brown said:

Well with all the chaos going on

 

Over and over I keep seeing you post news and politics in this forum based on spirituality. 

 

There’s ‘The Pavillion’ section to this forum - that’s the correct section for this - so please post these things there. 

[Patrick Brown]

1 minute ago, freeform said:

 

Over and over I keep seeing you post news and politics in this forum based on spirituality. 

 

There’s ‘The Pavillion’ section to this forum - that’s the correct section for this - so please post these things there. 

 

Isn't there a spiritual element to this? I mean spirituality dressed up as religion, or whatever, is often used to control people. So the question might be, "can you follow a spiritual path while being oppressed by the society you live within?". 

 

Obviously from many of your previous posts, and your knee-jerk reaction on this post, you would rather people just do as they're told. Do you make a living from what you do? You never did explain what you actually do but I can imagine it revolves around convincing people of something? So what you selling?  

 

 

[lifeforce]

China is now locked down in a 5g dystopian nightmare. 24/7 surveillance of all activities and it's social credit system. 

[freeform]

Space x launches, bugs caught on cruise ships or immigration are not spiritual cultivation topics.

 

They might be interesting topics to discuss - but this is not the part of the forum for that.

 

 

[Patrick Brown]

2 minutes ago, lifeforce said:

China is now locked down in a 5g dystopian nightmare. 24/7 surveillance of all activities and it's social credit system. 

 

I wonder if being religious affects the social score?

 

Just now, freeform said:

spiritual cultivation

 

I keep asking you what you mean when you use this term and you have yet to answer I therefore take it that you don't know what you're talking about! 

 

And you still haven't answered my question from a previous thread regarding the importance of understanding human sexuality and it's importance to spirituality? Of course I doubt you will ever answer that question because, and again, you don't seem to know what you're talking about. Is it just about making money and controlling people is that what you do? 

 

So how much do you charge? 

[freeform]

21 minutes ago, Patrick Brown said:

I keep asking you what you mean when you use this term and you have yet to answer

 

23 minutes ago, Patrick Brown said:

And you still haven't answered my question from a previous thread regarding the importance of understanding human sexuality and it's importance to spirituality?

 

I answered both of these and we had an exchange about it. You just didn't like my answer

 

24 minutes ago, Patrick Brown said:

Of course I doubt you will ever answer that question because, and again, you don't seem to know what you're talking about. Is it just about making money and controlling people is that what you do? 

 

So how much do you charge? 

 

You'd make a great Scientologist.

 

[freeform]

It's great to have a spirituality forum.

 

I've been a member for 14yrs and got lots of value from it for years. And I'm more than happy to share, help and add value where I can.

 

However, if the trend for this forum is going down the Daily Mail clickbait political discussion route then I'll be reconsidering my participation in this place.

[Patrick Brown]

1 hour ago, freeform said:

It's great to have a spirituality forum.

 

I've been a member for 14yrs and got lots of value from it for years. And I'm more than happy to share, help and add value where I can.

 

However, if the trend for this forum is going down the Daily Mail clickbait political discussion route then I'll be reconsidering my participation in this place.

 

But some activity is better than none right? Also certain discussions, for whatever reasons, don't seem to attract much interest so they have to be brought into consciousness by stealth, almost. 

 

So, what part does society play in developing, evolving and maintaining a healthy spirituality? 

 

 

[3bob]

if the so called spiritual doesn't include  spiritual warriors fighting in the trenches then it is not really spiritual, more like  disconnecting or retreating to some kind of la-la land...granted everyone needs to take a break from the "world" now and then but we can not surrender the welfare of mankind and the rest of the wondrous natural world to forces of darkness and expect to still have  nice cozy spots to meditate in peace and experience tranquility.

[Everything]

There is no one here in this universe, except you and all the people you love the most.

[freeform]

1 hour ago, 3bob said:

if the so called spiritual doesn't include  spiritual warriors fighting in the trenches then it is not really spiritual

 

Well... the Latin Church would certainly agree with that, during the Crusades at least. And most of the radical, murderous religious groups nowadays would applaud your view. So you’re in good company.

 

1 hour ago, Patrick Brown said:

Also certain discussions, for whatever reasons, don't seem to attract much interest so they have to be brought into consciousness by stealth, almost. 

 

They don't attract interest in a forum focused on spiritual cultivation.

 

I'm very interested in gardening and the natural world, but I don’t discuss that here. I probably could, if I actively framed some gardening subject in a way that highlights some spiritual subject or process. And of course you’re free to do that too. And it might actually create some interest!

 

But you repeatedly just post random snippets of news or some YouTube video you find interesting or controversial and then you post it here...

 

And luckily there’s a subsection of this very forum that’s actually designed for this sort of thing - you’re more than welcome to post news, politics, rocket launch videos there.

 

I’ve had messages saying ‘why don’t you just put him on ignore’.

 

But that goes against what I believe - because I’m sure you have good things to contribute, and it’s pretty self centred to just hide away all your posts. Of course you don’t endear yourself to anyone when you’re being emotionally reactive and disrespectful - but that’s the nature of sitting behind a screen, I’m sure you’d be a lot more polite, articulate and respectful in person. That’s why I give you the benefit of the doubt.

[Patrick Brown]

22 minutes ago, freeform said:

 

Well... the Latin Church would certainly agree with that, during the Crusades at least. And most of the radical, murderous religious groups nowadays would applaud your view. So you’re in good company.

 

 

They don't attract interest in a forum focused on spiritual cultivation.

 

I'm very interested in gardening and the natural world, but I don’t discuss that here. I probably could, if I actively framed some gardening subject in a way that highlights some spiritual subject or process. And of course you’re free to do that too. And it might actually create some interest!

 

But you repeatedly just post random snippets of news or some YouTube video you find interesting or controversial and then you post it here...

 

And luckily there’s a subsection of this very forum that’s actually designed for this sort of thing - you’re more than welcome to post news, politics, rocket launch videos there.

 

I’ve had messages saying ‘why don’t you just put him on ignore’.

 

But that goes against what I believe - because I’m sure you have good things to contribute, and it’s pretty self centred to just hide away all your posts. Of course you don’t endear yourself to anyone when you’re being emotionally reactive and disrespectful - but that’s the nature of sitting behind a screen, I’m sure you’d be a lot more polite, articulate and respectful in person. That’s why I give you the benefit of the doubt.

 

The crux of it is that I see spirituality as inclusive and not exclusive therefore by default everything is relevant to the spiritual life. 

 

So regardless of what I post I am viewing it through a spiritual lens and I feel not seeing the world through such a lens is the only real danger to mankind as a whole.

 

Quote

Seventy-two:

 

When men lack a sense of awe, there will be disaster.

Do not intrude in their homes. 
Do not harass them at work. 
If you do not interfere, they will not weary of you.

Therefore the sage knows himself but makes no show, 
Has self-respect but is not arrogant. 
He lets go of that and chooses this.

 

Things will carry on whatever but we can make it easy on ourselves or simply court disaster, pain and suffering. 

[Everything]

2 hours ago, Patrick Brown said:

 

But some activity is better than none right? Also certain discussions, for whatever reasons, don't seem to attract much interest so they have to be brought into consciousness by stealth, almost. 

 

So, what part does society play in developing, evolving and maintaining a healthy spirituality? 

 

 

I often say, don't ask what is truth. Because all truth's are true. Just because someone else made their truth, it does not mean it has any relationship to you or what truth you will be making in your life. When you let other people make your truth, you are still making your own truth, you're just using other people as an excuse to not take response-ability for your own creating of your own truth. So you become a creator by default.

 

So if you ask me to make your truth, I can try, but I can never do as good of a job as you can do for yourself! Because YOU ARE YOU, and no one else can be you FOR you. I can only guide and point in certain directions, at best. And only in my guesses of who I perceive you to be now and your energy now.

 

But nevertheless, I will try. So you don't like manipulation, conflict and drama, it seems, from what I guess about you so far. You like peace.

 

So what does peace mean to you? Focus your attention and energy thus then on peace, and you will realise it for yourself more fully as it already exists. Because I KNOW you deserve to align with your own preference of peace, that is why it is easy for me to say this to you.

 

For me peace is simple. I am allowed to exist. I deserve to exist. I have preferences in my life, and I am allowed to have those preferences. I am good as I am, and allow myself to be as I am, as I am allowed to be who I am. And I enjoy being who I am. There is thus no effort in allowing my own being and ever becoming, that is only enjoyable for me as an ongoingly enjoyable discovery of all the more of who I am that is thus then effortlessly and easily, inspiritly more fully allowed realised by me, ongoingly.

 

 

Who I am is constantly changing and evolving. And I enjoy discovering myself in this way ongoingly, as new realisations of preferences arise out of my explorations of the variety of contrast in this perfect environment of immense amount of contrast and variety, that thus then allows me to focus unto my own ever greater more fuller realisations of my own preferences.

 

I love my ability to feel my way through this variety of contrast that is life on this earth, and discover for myself my ever greater realisation of all my own personal preferences, by simply focusing on all those things that I DO want. That I DO enjoy in this life. And discover evermore fully thus then.

 

I have a soul that knows all of my preferences, and I can feel my relationship to my own Soul in every single here and now moment, emotional, energy motionally.

 

If other people choose something different than me, it is none of my business. I am me, I came here to be me. And I can only offer my own example of me being me more fully by my own personal example of me being me more fully more allowingedly. No amount of words can or will ever teach anything to another. If you live in peace, simply because you want to live in peace, and you allow peace to emmenate throughout every aspect of your life, that is the only value that you can ever offer someone. The value of who you truely are being who you truely are, is the only thing that is ever ment to teach anything to another. It is the only thing that matters to begin with. To choose to be more fully who you truely already are, and so you allowing yourself of being more fully who you are, will offer everyone the greatest opportunity to also choose to do so for themselves aswell.

 

For if you are not you, who is there to love? If you are not home, who is there to love and visit? If you are not home, who is there to come knock on your door? And ask you, to be a part of your being and becoming. In a way that works for you, in a way that is enjoyable to you and by you, that is in alignment with who it is you truely are in all of your soul's infinite knowing and eternal wisdom, because you have allowed yourself to be and become who you truely are evermore. In all the preferences that inspire and drive you forward evermore. Simply for the joy of it.

 

There is no lesson to be learned, there is no goal to be reached. You are an eternal being, and you are eternally free. So it's, in my opinion, always the right moment in time, to allow yourself to enjoy who it is you truely are more fully and what it is you truely want, meaning, what it is you do enjoy in life. And thus then allowing yourself to place you attention, gently and softly on all those things you do enjoy. And relax, and ease into all of those things that ARE of your preferences that you do deserve to allow yourself to be the ever becoming of it evermore.

 

That's the only answer and it really is that simple.

[freeform]

1 hour ago, Patrick Brown said:

I see spirituality as inclusive and not exclusive

 

Now that would be a much better topic of conversation!

 

And it goes against every spiritual tradition that I know of.

 

I’ll pick just one word from your DDJ quote to illustrate my point: sage

 

Why do they use sage and not ‘man’ or ‘person’ (as they often do in other verses). The sage is not an ordinary person - the sage is one who has cultivated spiritually.

 

However unpalatable the idea is for you, spiritual cultivation is exclusive. Just as pretty much every human endeavour is in life.

 

1 hour ago, Patrick Brown said:

I am viewing it through a spiritual lens and I feel not seeing the world through such a lens is the only real danger to mankind as a whole.

 

You calling something spiritual doesn’t make it so. Someone else viewing their behaviour through a spiritual lens also doesn’t make it so! 

 

This is not only nonsensical but actually dangerous. I’m sure you know of all the atrocities committed in the name of ‘spirituality’ when it’s maipulated to fit whatever meaning one wants. 

[Patrick Brown]

34 minutes ago, freeform said:

the sage is one who has cultivated spiritually.

 

Really? I always thought the sage was much more like a child than anything else unfettered by opinion and always discovering greatness in simplicity.

 

35 minutes ago, freeform said:

However unpalatable the idea is for you, spiritual cultivation is exclusive. Just as pretty much every human endeavour is in life.

 

No it's not it's individual!

 

We're all allowed to pick and choose and we do such because we have freewill. Do you have freewill freeform or is your form set in stone?  

 

38 minutes ago, freeform said:

You calling something spiritual doesn’t make it so. Someone else viewing their behaviour through a spiritual lens also doesn’t make it so! 

 

It's within all things and if you choose not to see it and understand it then there's no point in talking it! 

 

Different and not different! To differentiate that which is whole, straight or obvious is to create arguments and confusion. We can only truly differentiate if we know the whole otherwise it's best to just accept it whatever you think it might be!!! 

 

40 minutes ago, freeform said:

This is not only nonsensical but actually dangerous. I’m sure you know of all the atrocities committed in the name of ‘spirituality’ when it’s maipulated to fit whatever meaning one wants. 

 

I think you'll find those were ideologies that are fed to the masses as a means of control very much like what's going on in China and Japan (Watch the video). 

 

I don't think spirituality has much to do with religion and everything to do with everything! Religion likes to think it's special which is, of course, utter bollocks. 

 

See it always comes back to sex so why don't we just discuss that and stop all this posturing? 

[rideforever]

The owners of the site have made decisions about the trajectory of the forum, and those decisions are bearing "fruit".

On the internet you can easily find out who owns the site and sifting through the photos of such, you can find the activities and political leanings of the owner which are not subtle.
Soon it becomes clear that the trajectory the site is taking and the choice of moderation is no accident, but a choice of people of similar leanings to push through a particular ideology.
Suddenly recent activities on the site, and the disappearance of several members ... make more sense.

The site is being deliberately steered in a political manner.

All this has nothing to do with Taoism.

Like you say FF, the truth is barely known.

 

 

Edited March 8, 2019 by rideforever

[Patrick Brown]

38 minutes ago, rideforever said:

The owners of the site have made decisions about the trajectory of the forum, and those decisions are bearing "fruit".

 

Seems to all be rather drab and slow to me. It has had it moments in the past although I've been away for almost 10 years. 

 

To be honest I'm on the verge of moving on as there's something wrong with this place, a constant division and a nasty vibe! 

 

Think the last straw for many was us losing our marbles! 

[freeform]

1 hour ago, Patrick Brown said:

Really? I always thought the sage was much more like a child than anything else

 

You just interpreted it they way that sounds best to you.

 

The sage is not a child otherwise they would have said child.

 

A sage is “he who can free his mind eternally of desire and attachment”...

 

Children are all desire and attachment. As they should be at that stage.

 

1 hour ago, Patrick Brown said:

It's within all things and if you choose not to see it and understand it then there's no point in talking it! 

 

However you try, the classics of Buddhist and Daoist spirituality are pretty clear what is the spiritual way and what isn’t. 

 

The modern approach is to interpret everything in a way that fits with our own wishes.

 

Which is what you’re doing - adapting sacred spiritual traditions to fit in with your political beliefs.

 

Thats how you get ‘spiritual’ gurus manipulating and sexually exploiting their followers.

 

Is that spiritual to you? Well if everything is then it must be! 

 

1 hour ago, Patrick Brown said:

I don't think spirituality has much to do with religion

 

Hang on - suddenly spirituality is exclusive...

 

Or are you just changing things to suit your beliefs again?

 

In the words of the Buddha in the Dhammapada...

 

verse 64:

A fool associating with a sage for a lifetime,

Will no more perceive the Dharma

Than a spoon will perceive the taste of soup.

 

verse 72:

Reasoning is harmful

To fools;

It ruins their good fortune

and splits open their heads

 

 

[rideforever]

39 minutes ago, Patrick Brown said:

To be honest I'm on the verge of moving on as there's something wrong with this place, a constant division and a nasty vibe! 

agreed

[freeform]

1 hour ago, rideforever said:

The site is being deliberately steered in a political manner.

All this has nothing to do with Taoism.

Like you say FF, the truth is barely known.

 

Thats clearly the case with certain people!

 

I think if this is indeed the trend for this place, then I’ll have to leave myself.

 

I enjoy some discussions and it’s nice to be helpful to sincere people - as others have been with me.

 

But in reality it all just takes time and effort - especially when you’re trying to be articulate and thorough in your posts...

 

Is it really worth it?

[rideforever]

15 minutes ago, freeform said:

Is it really worth it?

 

It is very much worth it, but you have to find the people who are worth talking to.
In this world there are many beautiful people, and many ugly people.
Let the dead bury the dead.

[lifeforce]

2 hours ago, rideforever said:

The owners of the site have made decisions about the trajectory of the forum, and those decisions are bearing "fruit".

On the internet you can easily find out who owns the site and sifting through the photos of such, you can find the activities and political leanings of the owner which are not subtle.
Soon it becomes clear that the trajectory the site is taking and the choice of moderation is no accident, but a choice of people of similar leanings to push through a particular ideology.
Suddenly recent activities on the site, and the disappearance of several members ... make more sense.

The site is being deliberately steered in a political manner.

All this has nothing to do with Taoism.

Like you say FF, the truth is barely known.

 

 

Thanks for bringing this up.

A little detective work and I can now see where this is heading.

I had a feeling something was off here for a while now. I've had spells away when I get fed up but always come back.

On my last return I couldn't believe how many long standing members had disappeared. I'm not sure of the details regarding their departures as I'm not too fussed on melodrama.

This is a forum. People clash. We don't have to agree with each other. Sometimes it gets petty. That's just human nature. 

[Lost in Translation]

2 hours ago, Patrick Brown said:

Think the last straw for many was us losing our marbles! 

 

Marblehead's influence on this forum was strong. Losing him has caused a shift. A new balance is forming and no one can say what that balance will be.

 

2 hours ago, rideforever said:

The site is being deliberately steered in a political manner.

 

I do not see it that way at all. The owners of this site are allowing the members to interact as they will. It is the members who are steering the site.

[Patrick Brown]

58 minutes ago, freeform said:

You just interpreted it they way that sounds best to you.

 

The sage is not a child otherwise they would have said child.

 

A sage is “he who can free his mind eternally of desire and attachment”...

 

Children are all desire and attachment. As they should be at that stage.

 

I''m not interpreting anything and the sage is like a child but you are just being argumentative, again!

 

Children are not all desire but they may be enthralled by sensation and seek out experience which might be misconstrued as desire. Desire as the sage would explain it is cleaving or holding on rather than just enjoying the ride/journey. 

 

So the sage is not attached but experiences the thrill of sensation as if for the fist time, like a child. You will continue to argue because your ego is inflated so I recommend laying off the beans. 

 

58 minutes ago, freeform said:

However you try, the classics of Buddhist and Daoist spirituality are pretty clear what is the spiritual way and what isn’t. 

 

The modern approach is to interpret everything in a way that fits with our own wishes.

 

Which is what you’re doing - adapting sacred spiritual traditions to fit in with your political beliefs.

 

Thats how you get ‘spiritual’ gurus manipulating and sexually exploiting their followers.

 

Is that spiritual to you? Well if everything is then it must be! 

 

So you are now telling me 'what I'm doing' I'm not doing anything other than pointing out that big brother has arrived in China and Japan. You're throwing a hissy fit, for some unknown reason, and it's yawningly tedious.

 

I never mentioned politics and to be honest it probably has more to do with buSINess. You seem to have this view that my posts always have a political motivation but you are very wrong. 

 

As for the "sexually exploiting their followers" I'm not sure what the hell you're getting at other than you seem to have issues talking about sexuality. And I mean sexuality in all it's diversity and expressions unlike the conformist stereotypical view of masculine and feminine. 

 

Don't worry we don't have to discuss such things if they're difficult for you to come to terms with!  

 

58 minutes ago, freeform said:

Hang on - suddenly spirituality is exclusive...

 

Or are you just changing things to suit your beliefs again?

 

In the words of the Buddha in the Dhammapada...

 

verse 64:

A fool associating with a sage for a lifetime,

Will no more perceive the Dharma

Than a spoon will perceive the taste of soup.

 

verse 72:

Reasoning is harmful

To fools;

It ruins their good fortune

and splits open their heads

 

I said "I don't think spirituality has much to do with religion" which doesn't mean it's exclusive or inclusive but you are struggling to keep up.

 

Exoteric religious teachings are often just moralistic stories with a few hints for those that would look for deeper meaning. Esoteric religious teachings often have more of a spiritual thrust but this is often tainted by the peculiarities of the particular religion normally having a cultural basis deriving from shamanic traditions. There's the mystery schools and all that jazz which is interesting but again get's stuck in translation!!! 

 

Religion can lead to the beginning of a persons unfolding but more often than not will just become a major stumbling block. This is why I said "I don't think spirituality has much to do with religion" and I believe this is generally born out by the evidence. 

 

As for you quotes