Ultimate Inner Alchemy

[pegasus1992]

22 hours ago, Kar3n said:

Not convinced.

 

I've read the script too many times to not recognize it when I see it.

 

I was born at night, but it wasn't last night.

 

I could literally care less, the only thing I've ever known about any form of  "Western Mo Pai"  has come from this website. I have no contact, interaction or affiliation with any of those people, and I do not endorse it.

 

You are most welcome to ask them if you wish

 

You clearly have not read this script, and actually, you've failed miserably to interpret anything I've written

 

You may not have been born yesterday, but you'd do well to actually see my point, instead of attaching me , and therefore my beliefs to a splinter group of this website who I most certainly do not affiliate with

 

But do continue to accuse, Its quite a telling sign of ignorance and does reflect how some people can be inhospitable with no reason.

 

 

6 hours ago, Starjumper said:

 

Please, feel free to tell us all about how great you and your system are in this thread:

 

 

 

I am not great and I do not have a system

 

Do you actually think I disagree with anything you posted about "Western Mo Pai"? I do not...I do not condone partial methods and teachings  and never would? I am not great and I have no system.

 

A person on this thread called John Chang a fake and I called them to substantiate the claim, and they failed miserably.

 

THAT IS ALL...

 

I DID THE EXACT SAME THING WHEN SOMEONE CLAIMED SOTG WAS NOT AUTHENTIC...I CALLED THEM ON IT

 

I have no affiliation with them, their ideas, conceptual framework  or though process that because John Chang displayed abilities, he is the only one to do so. Quite the opposite in fact.

 

Are you trying to tell me that its a bad thing to identify Chang (Note how I am saying Chang) as authentic?

[Starjumper]

37 minutes ago, pegasus1992 said:

THAT IS ALL...

 

Thank you for the clarification.  I do believe that Mr. Chang was quite advanced and just made a few mistakes.

 

Please pardon the intrusion, it was a misunderstanding resulting from the relentless onslaught of Western More Pai fanatics here.

Edited April 2, 2019 by Starjumper

[Kar3n]

1 hour ago, pegasus1992 said:

 

I could literally care less, the only thing I've ever known about any form of  "Western Mo Pai"  has come from this website. I have no contact, interaction or affiliation with any of those people, and I do not endorse it.

 

You are most welcome to ask them if you wish

 

You clearly have not read this script, and actually, you've failed miserably to interpret anything I've written

 

You may not have been born yesterday, but you'd do well to actually see my point, instead of attaching me , and therefore my beliefs to a splinter group of this website who I most certainly do not affiliate with

 

But do continue to accuse, Its quite a telling sign of ignorance and does reflect how some people can be inhospitable with no reason.

 

 

 

I am not great and I do not have a system

 

Do you actually think I disagree with anything you posted about "Western Mo Pai"? I do not...I do not condone partial methods and teachings  and never would? I am not great and I have no system.

 

A person on this thread called John Chang a fake and I called them to substantiate the claim, and they failed miserably.

 

THAT IS ALL...

 

I DID THE EXACT SAME THING WHEN SOMEONE CLAIMED SOTG WAS NOT AUTHENTIC...I CALLED THEM ON IT

 

I have no affiliation with them, their ideas, conceptual framework  or though process that because John Chang displayed abilities, he is the only one to do so. Quite the opposite in fact.

 

Are you trying to tell me that its a bad thing to identify Chang (Note how I am saying Chang) as authentic?

Not an attack on you, just an observation. On the other hand your reply to my off the cuff, intended to be funny comments, are more of a personal attack as defined by TDB policies. 

 

Grow some skin, thicker skin, bud. You're gonna need it around here if you can't take a little ribing on a subject you know draws attention.  Folks who resort to personal attacks and insults usually don't get to stick around.

[pegasus1992]

29 minutes ago, Starjumper said:

 

Thank you for the clarification.  I do believe that Mr. Chang was quite advanced and just made a few mistakes.

 

Please pardon the intrusion, it was a misunderstanding resulting from the relentless onslaught of Western More Pai fanatics here.

 

No problem, I've read enough of the posts on here to see why there's animosity. Im catching up on circa 15 years worth of threads and trying to assimilate everything that's happened in that regard.

 

2 minutes ago, Kar3n said:

Not an attack on you, just an observation. On the other hand your reply to my off the cuff, intended to be funny comments, are more of a personal attack as defined by TDB policies. 

 

Grow some skin, thicker skin, bud. You're gonna need it around here if you can't take a little ribing on a subject you know draws attention.  Folks who resort to personal attacks and insults usually don't get to stick around.

 

Nobody is intending to insult anyone,  but to claim I am of some affiliation when I am not is to be ignorant to what I am. Whether it be off the cuff or not is irrelevant. I do not see that as insulting, and if it bothers you I can edit it to say unawareness?

 

That kind of makes the thick skin comment a bit ironic though...

[Kar3n]

1 hour ago, pegasus1992 said:

That kind of makes the thick skin comment a bit ironic though...

You're not bothering me. I'm just giving you a bit of friendly advice, because you may bother someone else in the future.

 

Peace.

[thelerner]

Peace.  Good.

Cause it seems like people are caught up arguing about things they are probably more in agreement with then not.

 

Course isn't that the nature of most 'ultimate' threads.  Who's best?   Who'd win?  

 

To me, we win by finding a path (hopefully w/ heart) and walking it.  You lose when you waste time on other people's beyond learning and discussion. 

 

what else.. we can't handle the ultimate.  rather we start where we are, build.. grow.  Right now I'm doing some Surrender Yoga, very simple.  Easy postures, staying with them for a few minutes, 5 to 7, relaxing into them, breathing.  Its nice.  Not the ultimate, pretty beginner actually but I think its where I should be yogically right now. 

 

So perhaps.. ultimate is where we're growing and expanding. 

Edited April 3, 2019 by thelerner

[Sinai]

On 4/3/2019 at 6:34 AM, GSmaster said:

Just a piece of advice, you come on forum, you should talk more about yourself, discuss your practice, share experience.

 

Any kind of accusations or discussion of somebody else doesn't change reality. 

 

You can only change yourself and you can only do this through practice.

So why you talk to void is yin yang like that?

[Sinai]

2 minutes ago, GSmaster said:

 

Do you think I remember what you are talking about?

 

allright !
how are you GSmater ? and others ? sorry i was away for more than 2 months i think ... sorry
lets get back to our topic i found very good information

[Sinai]

20 minutes ago, GSmaster said:

 

I am going to mountains soon for 2 weeks retreat.

Hope to make some breakthrough and get back the power.

 

I have almost forgotten about this forum, not sure if there is any interesting discussion or even a morepie thread?

Yes there is of course ... i will post my in formations soon ....

[vonkrankenhaus]

On 4/2/2019 at 6:18 PM, pegasus1992 said:

A person on this thread called John Chang a fake and I called them to substantiate the claim, and they failed miserably.

 

Occam's razor -  (Latin: novacula Occami); further known as the law of parsimony (Latin: lex parsimoniae)) is the problem-solving principle that essentially states that "simpler solutions are more likely to be correct than complex ones." When presented with competing hypotheses to solve a problem, one should select the solution with the fewest assumptions.

 

The paper fire thing is a well-known street trick that is done using Yellow Phosphorus and Carbon Disulfide. Nothing need be invented for this explanation of the video to be true. There is nothing in the video to show that this is NOT how it was done. But this is a common SE Asia (and elsewhere) street trick, and many many people have seen it live. It's about as common as those "levitating" people with the bent-pipe rigs they sit on under their robes.

 

The LED is just a low-watt LED. They sell "Human Powered LED" bulbs in toy stores, and have for decades.

 

All of the stuff in the video has been debunked a zillion times. 

 

Real Qigong and Gongfu people see that junk right away.

 

People impressed by this video - never done traditional training in anything, so have been reading fairytales and can't tell any difference from fact - and don't even want to it seems.

 

It's embarrassing to witness supposed adults falling for that shit.

 

 

 

 

 

-VonKrankenhaus

[dawei]

On 4/1/2019 at 10:02 AM, GSmaster said:

 

It actually proves that some people here are unable to see Qi....

I am sorry but when discussing anything like qi / selfdevelopment, ability to see qi is essential.

 

I generally like your posts and appreciate your perspective and sharing of your experience/thought... but I think Spotless is more correct here; one doesn't need to 'see' Qi as it can be felt and known.  I remember being in Medical Qigong clinicals and the reiki master could see and describe Qi; a yogic could explain how it felt in his hands; I could explain knowing its presence and where it was.  

 

Energy is translated by our minds to something we put in words.  Much later, I have been in group experiments where we all shared what we encountered by going to a dimension or visiting a colony of beings.  Or someone discovers a place and then takes people there, and then we compare what we got.   What I was most surprised by was the similarities in how our minds translated to a common explanation. 

 

I could tell stories people would not believe and that is ok.  It doesn't mean I"m right or wrong as it is our mental translations being tested on some level.   But once one is inside the universal mind of all creatures/beings/spirits, etc... then everything is a step or a breath away.  This showed me that Qi is a kind of coarse understanding of energy as there is something beyond that experience we tend to talk about in regards to Qi.  I'm not sure the proper word for it, maybe just more primordial sense or shamanistic in a way but there is something much more than Qi to see.  

 

Enjoy your mountain retreat.  Look forward to reading something if you care to share later. 

[vonkrankenhaus]

1 hour ago, GSmaster said:

I am sorry that what Chang does is called qigong or neigong, as it is nothing similar to what you guys are doing.

 

I agree with that 100%, and have suggested why.

 

Very Good. 

 

So, go as far as can go "following" "Chang", then you know.

 

Go every day "Chang" first, lighting papers up all around and being Super. 

 

Make video of your "Chang" super powers.

 

Then, check out that "what you guys are doing" and see the reality of comparison.

 

But first - yeah - go all way with "Chang" and be as Super as can get with that.

 

 

 

 

 

-VonKrankenhaus

[pegasus1992]

On 5/22/2019 at 7:39 AM, vonkrankenhaus said:

 

Occam's razor -  (Latin: novacula Occami); further known as the law of parsimony (Latin: lex parsimoniae)) is the problem-solving principle that essentially states that "simpler solutions are more likely to be correct than complex ones." When presented with competing hypotheses to solve a problem, one should select the solution with the fewest assumptions.

 

The paper fire thing is a well-known street trick that is done using Yellow Phosphorus and Carbon Disulfide. Nothing need be invented for this explanation of the video to be true. There is nothing in the video to show that this is NOT how it was done. But this is a common SE Asia (and elsewhere) street trick, and many many people have seen it live. It's about as common as those "levitating" people with the bent-pipe rigs they sit on under their robes.

 

The LED is just a low-watt LED. They sell "Human Powered LED" bulbs in toy stores, and have for decades.

 

All of the stuff in the video has been debunked a zillion times. 

 

Real Qigong and Gongfu people see that junk right away.

 

People impressed by this video - never done traditional training in anything, so have been reading fairytales and can't tell any difference from fact - and don't even want to it seems.

 

It's embarrassing to witness supposed adults falling for that shit.

 

 

 

 

 

-VonKrankenhaus

 

 

 

I wasnt going to bother responding, because the entire paragraph is reminiscent of a child like scientist kicking and screaming and desperately clinging to his materialistic reductionist explanations for phenomena, but , I shall bite

 

Firstly the occam's  razor nonsense....Read the book, Chang's explanation for everything is remarkably simple.....your cultural lens is biased and you are gripping to western concepts like they are objective....I have news for you....the western scientific model ( and reductionism) is flawed in many ways and showing more cracks temporally....and that's coming from a person who's about to spend the next 4 months doing a neuroimaging study, and is fully intent on building a career doing so....so its not like I am unaware...but if you want to try and debunk Chang....try harder because clinging to "scientific laws" without any evidence is simply speculation at best and idiotic at worst, and to make it very clear...next time you want to use occam's razor in a discussion, be sure to have actual evidence to back up what you are saying...otherwise its effectively useless

 

Have you any proof Chang is doing a magic trick? No...

 

On the contrary, there is tons of testimony, and reports of Chang...SOME OF THEM ON HERE FROM RESPECTED MEMBERS....So your opinion on the matter is literally null and void...experience the man or else stop making claims about him...its that simple really...In sum, bring direct experience with Chang and testimony, or stop pretending that your opinion is in any way important...its not, it never will be, because you are discussing someone you have spent ZERO HOURS, ZERO MINUTES AND ZERO SECONDS WITH.....so basically your words are empty and meaningless...NOT ONE PERSON WHO EVER ENCOUNTERED CHANG CLAIMED ANYTHING EVEN REMOTELY CLOSE TO WHAT YOU SAID....so, please spare  me further engagement on a subject you have nothing useful to add to...its tiresome

 

Have you any proof people impressed by this videos never don't anything and cannot discern facts from fiction? No...

 

Your presumption about others and their ability to discern information is quite troublesome.....you would do well to reserve judgement on those who may in fact be far better positioned to speak on the topic than you. For example, @voidisyinyang has given a very interesting account of how Chang might have generated the electric like qi in his guide to internal alchemy......and you've done what exactly? that's right...nothing..AGAIN....except played the skeptics game and pretended you are right....For a person who likes to chime in as if their opinion holds weight...you perception is flawed and skewed...id meditate on that if I was you

 

And  considering the above, you have the nerve to call people embarrassing? perhaps stick to the "Gongfu" and withdraw from trying to debunk things... because you aren't very good at it

 

 

 

[vonkrankenhaus]

1 hour ago, pegasus1992 said:

Have you any proof Chang is doing a magic trick? No...

 

On the contrary, there is tons of testimony, and reports of Chang

 

They are hearsay about hearsay about some street performer tricks that some sheltered people who have never study any actual Gongfu, Qigong, Neigong or anything with anyone try to make up opinions about.

 

Deriding thousands of years of culture and hundreds of years of traditional training that you know nothing whatsoever about, in favor of a couple of obvious circus tricks - is a fool's errand if there ever was one.

 

But do not think for a second that I do not wish you all luck with it.

 

I say go all the way - see every detail eventually of "Chang", and the psychology that this kind of thing captures and why.

 

 

 

 

 

-VonKrankenhaus

[pegasus1992]

On 5/24/2019 at 4:28 AM, vonkrankenhaus said:

 

They are hearsay about hearsay about some street performer tricks that some sheltered people who have never study any actual Gongfu, Qigong, Neigong or anything with anyone try to make up opinions about.

 

Deriding thousands of years of culture and hundreds of years of traditional training that you know nothing whatsoever about, in favor of a couple of obvious circus tricks - is a fool's errand if there ever was one.

 

But do not think for a second that I do not wish you all luck with it.

 

I say go all the way - see every detail eventually of "Chang", and the psychology that this kind of thing captures and why.

 

 

 

 

 

-VonKrankenhaus

 

1. Nobody is making up anything....there is no hearsay....John Chang is a real person with real abilities that have been documented.....there have been innumerable amounts of testimony.....and plenty of footage...much of it from very educated people (all of which most likely have a better grasp of Occam's razor too I might add). If you want to make a claim, back it up

 

2.Deriding Cultures? Daoists, Buddhists, Yogi....virtually every major religion and sect (which are fundamental pillars of culture) in eastern world speak about siddhi in one way or another 9 (including "traditional texts" that inform certain training)...so rather, to deny these things is to  deride the culture....not to embrace them...thats quite hypocritical of you actually....Id reconsider your position

 

Whatever way you twist this, there is more evidence for John Chang than against him....you can trick yourself into thinking he's a phoney...by all means go right ahead...but you arent convincing me, or anyone else for that matter

 

According to your words, everyone who's ever met him is a Liar, Correct?

 

How convenient it is that everyone reports the same thing, and they all conspire to trick the world....Scientists, Physicians, Anthropoligists, Engineers, etc etc

 

I think the only one telling lies here is you..because unlike you, the have encountered the man...and you have not....So more or less anything you say regards John Chang is fabricated, and thus irrelevant

 

But do keep digging that hole you're digging

[pegasus1992]

Just now, pegasus1992 said:

 

1. Nobody is making up anything....there is no hearsay....John Chang is a real person with real abilities that have been documented.....there have been innumerable amounts of testimony.....and plenty of footage...much of it from very educated people (all of which most likely have a better grasp of Occam's razor too I might add). If you want to make a claim, back it up

 

2.Deriding Cultures? Daoists, Buddhists, Yogi....virtually every major religion and sect (which are fundamental pillars of culture) in eastern world speak about siddhi in one way or another (including "traditional texts" that inform certain training)...so rather, to deny these things is to  deride the culture....not to embrace them...thats quite hypocritical of you actually....Id reconsider your position

 

Whatever way you twist this, there is more evidence for John Chang than against him....you can trick yourself into thinking he's a phoney...by all means go right ahead...but you arent convincing me, or anyone else for that matter

 

According to your words, everyone who's ever met him is a Liar, Correct?

 

How convenient it is that everyone reports the same thing, and they all conspire to trick the world....Scientists, Physicians, Anthropoligists, Engineers, etc etc

 

I think the only one telling lies here is you..because unlike you, the have encountered the man...and you have not....So more or less anything you say regards John Chang is fabricated, and thus irrelevant

 

But do keep digging that hole you're digging

 

[vonkrankenhaus]

1 hour ago, pegasus1992 said:

there is more evidence for John Chang than against him

 

The evidence "against" him is that this is an easy trick to do and is very common, and was at the time.

 

What IS the actual existing evidence, not assertions or hearsay or personal testimony, that shows that he used "Qi" to light the paper?

 

Where is any evidence that he ever lit anything ELSE on fire that way?

 

Newspaper is THE thing usually used in the street trick. Holds the liquids okay, is common, and allow evaporation.

But if he lit a plastic bowling ball on fire, or a table, then that would be more difficult to do with the chemicals. But he doesn't do. He uses paper.

 

The video, the documentary film that everyone sees, is showing the chemical fire stunt. There is much evidence for this in the video/movie itself, including the time waiting for the Carbon Disulfide to evaporate before the Phosphorus ignites.

 

You watch others do trick, then watch "Chang" - you see same pacing, same trick. Common.

 

Low-watt LED lamp that will work from walking on a rug was develop and sold in 80s, and is in movie.

 

 

 

 

 

-VonKrankenhaus

[vonkrankenhaus]

1 hour ago, pegasus1992 said:

I think the only one telling lies here is you..because unlike you, the have encountered the man...and you have not....So more or less anything you say regards John Chang is fabricated, and thus irrelevant

 

I will suggest Occam's Razor again.

 

I have no reason to doubt "Chang".

 

I have no money to make or reputations or anything like a reason to doubt.

 

But I have seen street performers do these same tricks many times over many years.

 

And I did study Chinese Gongfu, Qigong, Medicine, and Philosophy for a long time, and meet many skilled people in my lifetime so far.

 

So I am very familiar with both sides of this - fake and real.

 

"Chang" is a street performer. Fooling people who don't know any better.

 

I'm sure guys making movie were in on it. Seems like it in movie.

 

 

 

 

 

-VonKrankenhaus

[Fa Xin]

36 minutes ago, vonkrankenhaus said:

I'm sure guys making movie were in on it. Seems like it in movie.

 

Never trust a man dressed like a pirate (see the narrator)

[pegasus1992]

28 minutes ago, vonkrankenhaus said:

 

The evidence "against" him is that this is an easy trick to do and is very common, and was at the time.

 

What IS the actual existing evidence, not assertions or hearsay or personal testimony, that shows that he used "Qi" to light the paper?

 

Where is any evidence that he ever lit anything ELSE on fire that way?

 

Newspaper is THE thing usually used in the street trick. Holds the liquids okay, is common, and allow evaporation.

But if he lit a plastic bowling ball on fire, or a table, then that would be more difficult to do with the chemicals. But he doesn't do. He uses paper.

 

The video, the documentary film that everyone sees, is showing the chemical fire stunt. There is much evidence for this in the video/movie itself, including the time waiting for the Carbon Disulfide to evaporate before the Phosphorus ignites.

 

You watch others do trick, then watch "Chang" - you see same pacing, same trick. Common.

 

Low-watt LED lamp that will work from walking on a rug was develop and sold in 80s, and is in movie.

 

 

 

 

 

-VonKrankenhaus

 

 

Sorry but Ill repeat myself..IT DOES NOT WORK THAT WAY

 

What you are describing is someone doing something.....What chang did 30 odd years ago is not that

 

In order to prove it was...you would need to

 

1. Test him....not find an alternative method of demonstrating a similar result and then claiming it is what he did too...that's just not the way falsifying things work.

 

Is there any evidence of liquid on the video? I don't think so

 

Is there any evidence the researcher ( Dr Lawrence Blair) provided liquid? I don't think so?

 

Did the scientist and physician lie too? On camera? Risking careers and reputation? I doubt it

 

What about the consistent electric shocks the patients get? pushing the chopsticks through the table...mcmillans telekentic performance...and the fact that when his method leaked, it was revealed to be an inner door teaching, and confirmed by others?

 

So if there is no evidence to suggest trickery....you have to try a little harder to prove there was some

21 minutes ago, vonkrankenhaus said:

 

I will suggest Occam's Razor again.

 

I have no reason to doubt "Chang".

 

I have no money to make or reputations or anything like a reason to doubt.

 

But I have seen street performers do these same tricks many times over many years.

 

And I did study Chinese Gongfu, Qigong, Medicine, and Philosophy for a long time, and meet many skilled people in my lifetime so far.

 

So I am very familiar with both sides of this - fake and real.

 

"Chang" is a street performer. Fooling people who don't know any better.

 

I'm sure guys making movie were in on it. Seems like it in movie.

 

 

 

 

 

-VonKrankenhaus

 

Do you think he did? Please recall he's not a public demonstrator, and outside of his students...That is the only documented footage of him doing anything from what I know of

 

You don't sound very familiar...more like a typical western skeptic if im honest.....study is irrelevant... that is how you present yourself....Try going to Thailand during the Nine Emperor Gods Festival....There'll be a bunch of people there invoking spirits and mutilating themselves to massive extents.....Might be fun for you to find a few more "liars" and "street performers"

 

I attached one such example below....another liar, correct?

 

Honestly, your lack of understanding of the metaphysics of spiritual teachings is baffling, considering you claim to be well versed

[vonkrankenhaus]

On 5/26/2019 at 12:22 AM, pegasus1992 said:

I attached one such example below....another liar, correct?

 

Honestly, your lack of understanding of the metaphysics of spiritual teachings is baffling, considering you claim to be well versed

 

He has pierced holes in his cheeks. 

 

That's a piercing just like an EAR RING but larger, that's all.

 

This stuff is meaningful to you, and you think it indicate "spiritual development"?

 

Ha! Everyone can trick you.

 

 

 

 

 

-VonKrankenhaus

 

[pegasus1992]

2 minutes ago, vonkrankenhaus said:

 

He has pierced holes in his cheeks. 

 

That's a piercing just like an EAR RING but larger, that's all.

 

This stuff is meaningful to you, and you think it indicate "spiritual development"?

 

Ha! Everyone can trick you.

 

 

 

 

 

-VonKrankenhaus

 

 

Oh my you have such a limited understanding of science and spirituality...its utterly baffling

 

There's thousands of videos of said festival online.....watch how it happens

 

Now for the gate theory of pain...ill make it simple for you

 

Two types of receptors...small and large...

 

small = gate open = pain felt

large = gate closed = pain not felt

 

sometimes when you stimulate the large after stimulating the small.....it can ease the pain, and stop it ( this is the idea behind rubbing yourself  when injured.

 

Pain is perceptive...but it is intertwined with both consciousness and the nervous system...that is why I am using this example ( if you prick a person in a coma with a needle, it wont register)

 

So....there's no evidence any of these people are sedated, or under any type of anesthetic ( go there yourself and see, the go into trance and then these things begin happening to them) and they are not actively stimulating large receptors ( not to mention it's incomprehensible to any scientific mind how much stimulation would be needed to even begin to diminish the pain from some of the things you see in Phuket)

 

Now what does this have to do with spirituality....very simple really...because pain is unique in that it is tied to all these....we can deduce that if nothing is being done to these individuals...then we can remove any nervous system manipulation

 

So what these people are doing is invoking deities....this leads to a shift in consciousness where they are no longer themselves but an embodied version of these "entities"  One can then deduce that it is this shift in consciousness that allows the overriding of the nervous system and thus, pain perception

 

 

Take note of how said individual never even flinches..

 

Now I know you, you're a skeptic to the bitter end...so lets go one step further. 

Now if this was only one person, we could argue trickery...but this happens to dozens and dozens of people simultaneously

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8X_i5rCYDFI&t=236s

 

Now check that one out.....the guy at 1.30 running his lips and tongue all over the blade

 

I could get countless more.....you'll also see people eating glass and whatnot, and not preformed pieces....they will be chewing on fluorescent bulbs....and they wont flinch either

 

So....as this defies all physiological explanation...where do we turn to? trickery? Nope, they don't go around pretending to do this....the blood is real, the wounds are real, and the pain oddly enough...is absent

 

If we take their word for it....they are channeling entities....or rather, deities should I say.

 

We are talking about the understanding of spirituality in general, something you seem to have zero grasp of....nobody used the word progress except you...these people are vessels, not practitioners.

 

On the contrary, nobody is fooling me, least of all you, rather, the only person being fooled here is you.....by yourself.

 

I have enough of a scientific background to understand when its time to call something a bluff, and when it's time to say, ok this isn't as easily explained as one might think....and as far as John Chang goes he falls directly into the latter category.

 

You would do well to go and experience these things...for someone who claims to be familiar, its almost painful to note how ignorant of these concepts you really are

[vonkrankenhaus]

2 hours ago, pegasus1992 said:

So what these people are doing is invoking deities

 

Sure.

 

But in the video you posted, it is a guy who has pre-made piercings in his cheeks having some cloth passed through them.

 

Might as well be a video of someone putting in really big ear rings. 

 

In terms of pain receptors, any video of someone giving birth or passing kidney stone would do.

 

If that "spiritual development" to you, any hospital must be FULL of that.

 

 

 

 

-VonKrankenhaus

[vonkrankenhaus]

2 hours ago, pegasus1992 said:

you'll also see people eating glass

 

Kid in my school used to do that at parties.

 

No big deal. 

 

Nothing to do with Qi Work or spiritual development.

 

 

 

 

 

-VonKrankenhaus

[pegasus1992]

3 minutes ago, vonkrankenhaus said:

 

Sure.

 

But in the video you posted, it is a guy who has pre-made piercings in his cheeks having some cloth passed through them.

 

Might as well be a video of someone putting in really big ear rings. 

 

In terms of pain receptors, any video of someone giving birth or passing kidney stone would do.

 

If that "spiritual development" to you, any hospital must be FULL of that.

 

 

 

 

-VonKrankenhaus

 

Now kindly show me a video of a dozens of pregnant women unmedicated  who feel absolutely nothing simultaneously, and then you might begin to have a point...otherwise more conjecture and nonsensical claims from your side. These people are completely immune to consistent pain that far exceeds what humans can consciously perceive without any response from the nervous system

 

That is the key here, and that is exactly what you are missing...and again this is a basic discussion about spirituality..not development....so please read my posts in their entirety if you want to respond...the selective addressing is not a good way to talk about anything

 

 

Just now, vonkrankenhaus said:

 

Kid in my school used to do that at parties.

 

No big deal. 

 

Nothing to do with Qi Work or spiritual development.

 

 

 

 

 

-VonKrankenhaus

 

Nobody mentioned qi work...this exercise was nothing more than to get you to understand, that paranormal things do exist, and they are readily available to perceive...and to deny that is to be ignorant to just how powerful these things are

 

Let me see the children eating glass please, with their tongues ripped open and bleeding, also let me see them not react in any way whatsoever....start bringing some evidence to your claims please....you've offered nothing in any case whatsoever