Ultimate Inner Alchemy

[Sinai]

52 minutes ago, GSmaster said:

 

The illustrator was talented and he left, after conflict with chia himself.

Modern books have chia photos of himself instead of illustrations.

 

dear GSmaster why don't you read Autobiography of a Yogi ?

[affenbrot]

 

On 28.3.2019 at 4:44 PM, Sinai said:

 

ohhhhh that's too bad  ... do you know who is he / she ? any forums names or LinkedIn ...

the early (80s to 90s) illustrations were made by Juan Li. https://ichingdao.org/en/juan-li/

Edited March 28, 2019 by affenbrot

[pegasus1992]

On 3/27/2019 at 8:01 PM, vonkrankenhaus said:

 

Nope. There is no "it".

 

That's why no scientists have ever been able to find "it".

 

Here is quote:

 

""China has, in recent decades, spent an inordinate amount of resources on experiments to determine the existence and nature of Qi. China is easing up on this research for lack of concrete breakthroughs. But the quest to define Qi continues, with there being no breakthroughs that we know of. Whether someone in China or anywhere has the Holy Grail hidden from view I cannot say""

-Xing-Tai Li and Jia Zhao (2012). An Approach to the Nature of Qi in TCM–Qi and Bioenergy, Recent Advances in Theories and Practice of Chinese Medicine, Prof. Haixue Kuang

 

Western scientists find same thing. 

 

Because what I am writing is true.

 

Qi is simply any movement between the poles of any polarity in any spectrum of matter or energy.

 

It is not a special substance or physical thing.

 

Neither is Tao, nor YinYang, nor Wu Xing any specific "thing".

 

Western materialist consumer philosophy wants "things" you can "attain".

 

So do modern consumer types, who want also to be "special". Somehow.

 

But that is not understanding Qi at all.

 

 

 

 

 

-VonKrankenhaus

Western Science has neither the capability nor interest to find such a thing

 

It isn't due to ability...It is due to materialistic reductionist paradigms that the majority of the world actively bathe in

 

 

On 3/27/2019 at 4:05 PM, vonkrankenhaus said:

 

"JC" meaning "John Chang" or "Dynamo Jack" in the fake street-performer video with the low-watt LED, "electric man" toy, and the carbon disulfide/phosphorus fire trick?

Any traditional Gongfu school would be a better and more sensible place to start. Any at all.

 

 

 

 

 

-VonKrankenhaus

 

Chang has more credibility than any publicly known master to date (Wang Liping might be on par, but I've only heard stories)...So to call him a fake...you are either (A) A Liar (B) Have substantial evidence to prove it (need i remind you of all the testimony, of which you would need even more of the refute those claims)

 

Im gonna go with A...and I could literally care less how much experience you have....theres too much evidence to suggest that Chang is authentic...one need only read damo mitchells last book to realize he literally laid out level 1 of mo pai, and confirmed further things about the later levels....three decades after chang did the first public demo

[Mudfoot]

2 hours ago, pegasus1992 said:

one need only read damo mitchells last book to realize he literally laid out level 1 of mo pai, and confirmed further things about the later levels....

Yes, striking similarities, isn't it. 

Add white moon... and cross-reference them, and I bet those who like the Mo Pai books have a ball. 

 

I wrote a little about it in my ppd. 

Edited March 31, 2019 by Mudfoot

[vonkrankenhaus]

1 hour ago, pegasus1992 said:

Im gonna go with A...and I could literally care less how much experience you have....theres too much evidence to suggest that Chang is authentic...one need only read damo mitchells last book

 

If you want to believe that, I will not dispute it.

 

Go right ahead with that.

 

If you think any Damo Mitchell book is explaining - fine for you.

 

Knowing is a long road. Any place on that road is okay starting place.

 

Even backwards is an okay direction to go.

 

True and False are existing on the same road.

 

If you look for truth, you will eventually find it.

 

If not looking, then that's okay too.

 

 

 

 

 

-VonKrankenhaus

[pegasus1992]

2 hours ago, Mudfoot said:

Yes, striking similarities, isn't it. 

Add white moon... and cross-reference them, and I bet those who like the Mo Pai books have a ball. 

 

I wrote a little about it in my ppd. 

 

Absolutely, Perhaps Damo has contacts who are perhaps not mo pai, but of the whole yin yang fusion school of thought....he's dropped many hints about it in interviews. In his text he seems not to encourage it...but i think its because people see and want...and the fact that it is apparently dangerous unless under careful watch

 

2 hours ago, vonkrankenhaus said:

 

If you want to believe that, I will not dispute it.

 

Go right ahead with that.

 

If you think any Damo Mitchell book is explaining - fine for you.

 

Knowing is a long road. Any place on that road is okay starting place.

 

Even backwards is an okay direction to go.

 

True and False are existing on the same road.

 

If you look for truth, you will eventually find it.

 

If not looking, then that's okay too.

 

 

 

 

 

-VonKrankenhaus

 

I do not want to believe you are anything....I am merely asking you to substantiate your claim...which you have not..So I ask again...can you provide the a greater deal of counter evidence?

 

I said Damo Mitchell is just one further person who substantiates exactly what Chang said over 30 years ago.....and there appears to be a lengthy list

 

1 hour ago, GSmaster said:

 

I know a guy who claimed that he was living god, lots of siddhis and abilities, he had thousands of students and followers and authority beyond imagination.

 

Only 20 years later after none of his disciples were able to demonstrate siddhi he changed his narrative saying it is impossible. Before he was saying usual excuses of losers, that you shouldnot chase siddhi, siddhi is not a goal, i am not a clown to demonstrate them, and our system has higher priorities and siddhi is a waste of time..

 

 

So, I dont believe any stories over internet.

On the other hand, Chang had solid demonstrations of his abilities.

Changs lower tan tien photo, in itself is a proof of siddhi, for anyone who is not blind.

 

If you dont have siddhi after years of practice you might want to dump your teacher and find another school.

 

 

I am somewhat skeptical of Wang Liping myself...only because of the fact that he, nor any of his have not demonstrated anything substantial

 

I now see Jerry Alan Johnson in the same light....a wealth of knowledge...but I've not seen anything from him, I've only heard stories

 

Have you got the picture of Chang's tan tien? I've never seen it!  but would certainly like to

[vonkrankenhaus]

23 minutes ago, pegasus1992 said:

I said Damo Mitchell is just one further person who substantiates exactly what Chang said over 30 years ago

 

Damo Mitchell books are inaccurate about Taoism.

 

Did anyone here ever study Taoism? 

 

That's one source of Internal Cultivation, so worth looking at.

 

And "Chang" - is a street-performer guy in a video/film that uses these:

https://www.amazon.com/Copernicus-Toys-Human-Powered-Light-Bulb/dp/B001EVK3F6

 

And stuff like this:

https://www.amazon.com/Dikley-Electric-Shocking-Handshake-Novelty/dp/B078NRPD66

 

 

And a fire stunt using Yellow Phosphorus and liquid Carbon Disulfide.

 

When the Carbon Disulfide evaporates, the Phosphorus ignites.

 

This trick is common street-performer stuff, as are all the ones in the video/film of "Chang".

 

 

 

 

 

-VonKrankenhaus

[voidisyinyang]

28 minutes ago, GSmaster said:

 

Yes, ofcourse.

 

With this photo, I do not even need any video demonstrations, it is quite obvious what this being can do.

I just did a 2 hour full lotus meditation session today using the same hand position. For males the right hand is yin and upper body is yang. The left hand is yang and lower body is yin. This hand position is also used for the "moving of yin and  yang" exercise. So you are automatically activating FREE energy based on yin-yang and yang-yin energy dynamics - noncommutative phase secret of alchemy.

 

 

[Mudfoot]

Isn't it interesting that a person capable of sitting in full lotus chooses not to? 

 

Almost like there is more to practice than that, when you progress beyond level zero😁

 

The mudra is common enough; JAJ and Mitchell both mention it and buddhist traditions use it as well. 

[voidisyinyang]

57 minutes ago, Mudfoot said:

Isn't it interesting that a person capable of sitting in full lotus chooses not to? 

 

I have heard actually that full lotus is not supposed to be practiced in public - for photos - for example. But your choice of strange logic is noted:

 

Quote

 

We can add John Chang and the Mo Pai to the list of Full-Lotus cultivators.

 

One week after I first learned Level 1 in Indonesia in February 2005, while sitting in John Chang's home, I said, "Shifu, I have been practicing Level 1 for an hour twice per day." John Chang asked, "You can sit lotus?" "Yes", I replied, and moved into full-lotus on his sofa. John Chang nodded his head and grunted his approval.

 

 

Regarding Wang Liping, he is most strict about sitting in lotus for all phases of the Dragon Gate path (please just read the book). Of course, not every beginner can from the start so some students are in half-lotus or even cross legged. However, Master Wang is most strict about NOT MOVING/SHIFTING our legs during the 90min - 2+hour meditation. Yes, it always gets uncomfortable and painful and that is when Master Wang says that we must persevere and hold our posture if we are to get results! I need to improve at this myself...

 

While full-lotus may not be the only path, it is certainly an extremely valid path and one with a long history of success especially in Daoist lineages. So can we stop doubting its efficacy?

 

Edward Richards

Chicago, IL

Edited July 22, 2008 by chinadao

 

https://www.thedaobums.com/topic/6121-respect-for-full-lotus/?do=findComment&comment=70670

fascinating article on how it took Edward 5 years to find John Chang!!

https://gusblerogarden.wordpress.com/2017/09/02/avatar-pengendali-api-dari-surabaya/

Edited April 1, 2019 by voidisyinyang

[Mudfoot]

32 minutes ago, voidisyinyang said:

 

But your choice of strange logic is noted:

It feels nice to be noted. 

Follow this logical chain: Just because beginners are told to focus on the full lotus doesn't mean that later on you might find the half lotus more useful for specific purposes, especially with that mudra. 

[voidisyinyang]

1 hour ago, Mudfoot said:

It feels nice to be noted. 

Follow this logical chain: Just because beginners are told to focus on the full lotus doesn't mean that later on you might find the half lotus more useful for specific purposes, especially with that mudra. 

https://ro.ecu.edu.au/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?article=1643&context=theses

This pdf on Human Levitation quotes "Magus of Java" on how JOhn Chang uses full lotus yoga position to levitate.

Then JOhn Chang comments:

Quote

"The carpet is synthetic, otherwise I would have risen much more."

So that implies John Chang definitely sat in full lotus meditation on the Earth - direct contact with the Earth.

 

So full lotus was not just the "focus" of "beginners" as you wrongly imply.

Quote

Just because beginners are told to focus on the full lotus

and to quote on John Chang:

Quote

"Sure", he said, and sat down on the floor, crossing his legs in a full lotus; He became still; it appeared that his breathing stopped....Suddenly and almost matter-of-factly he rose from the floor at least eight inches...

https://healingtaousa.com/topic/david-shen-letter-of-sean-deanty/

Quote

Im told Wang Li Ping, who is a master of the Yang Shen Dao as well as the other five lines, wont even consider a student unless they can sit in a meditative state, in full lotus for at least four hours with no discomfort.

 

Edited April 1, 2019 by voidisyinyang

[Mudfoot]

37 minutes ago, voidisyinyang said:

 

So full lotus we not just the "focus" of "beginners" as you wrongly imply.

Do you ever read posts, or do you go for the strawman argument by default? ☹️

[Zork]

3 hours ago, Mudfoot said:

Do you ever read posts, or do you go for the strawman argument by default? ☹️

You actually read voidisyinyang's posts? He is one of the people i put on my ignore list from day one. It doesn't take an expert to understand that he is confused on matters of inner alchemy, cultivation or qigong in general. He might be a fine guy in real life but there is no reason to follow his teachings based on the projection of his personality on the internet.

 

13 hours ago, vonkrankenhaus said:

And a fire stunt using Yellow Phosphorus and liquid Carbon Disulfide.

 

When the Carbon Disulfide evaporates, the Phosphorus ignites.

 

This trick is common street-performer stuff, as are all the ones in the video/film of "Chang"

Yes this is a trick known by the alchemists in the Middle east since before the Dark ages. Still i personally consider Chang's abilities genuine but the videos could be faked. One doesn't necessarily preclude the other.

[Mudfoot]

3 minutes ago, Zork said:

You actually read voidisyinyang's posts? 

@voidisyinyangis good at finding interesting references, I got two very useful ones the last two months. 

 

But the problem is when he doesn't read mine. 

 

[Zork]

11 minutes ago, Mudfoot said:

@voidisyinyangis good at finding interesting references, I got two very useful ones the last two months. 

 

But the problem is when he doesn't read mine. 

 

I will not take the risk of reading his posts sorry. I am happy that you can find something useful in them. There is a very unwelcome energy that i can sense in his posts and this is what led him to the ignore list.

I have nothing personal with the man. I wish him well.

Edited April 1, 2019 by Zork

[lifeforce]

13 hours ago, GSmaster said:

 

Yes, ofcourse.

 

With this photo, I do not even need any video demonstrations, it is quite obvious what this being can do.

 

Oh, a picture of an asain man sitting meditating. This proves nothing. Parlour tricks and fanciful claims to sell books and send people on wild goose chases around Indonesia.

[lifeforce]

36 minutes ago, GSmaster said:

 I will quickly add you into ignore list to avoid future miscommunication.

I am sorry but when discussing anything like qi / selfdevelopment, ability to see qi is essential.

 

No it's not.

As for putting me on ignore, I couldn't care less. This means you believe you are right and refuse to enter any civilised debate.

Edited April 1, 2019 by lifeforce

[lifeforce]

4 minutes ago, GSmaster said:

 

I dont mind discussion but you need to be qualified for it. I am not gonna spend rest of my life trying to prove that Qi exists to someone who is unable to see It.

 

I never said qi didn't exist, ever. I said you can't physically see it, only it's effects.

Qi is NOT physical. 

I came to the conclusion over 20 years ago that Qi is mind.

Anyway I thought you'd put me on ignore ?

 

 

[pegasus1992]

17 hours ago, vonkrankenhaus said:

 

Damo Mitchell books are inaccurate about Taoism.

 

Did anyone here ever study Taoism? 

 

That's one source of Internal Cultivation, so worth looking at.

 

And "Chang" - is a street-performer guy in a video/film that uses these:

https://www.amazon.com/Copernicus-Toys-Human-Powered-Light-Bulb/dp/B001EVK3F6

 

And stuff like this:

https://www.amazon.com/Dikley-Electric-Shocking-Handshake-Novelty/dp/B078NRPD66

 

 

And a fire stunt using Yellow Phosphorus and liquid Carbon Disulfide.

 

When the Carbon Disulfide evaporates, the Phosphorus ignites.

 

This trick is common street-performer stuff, as are all the ones in the video/film of "Chang".

 

 

 

 

 

-VonKrankenhaus

 

Actually Substantiate what you are saying, or else stop claiming false nonsense

 

Chang has been verified...countless students...students of his students....he's been examined by a physicist and a medical doctor on camera in a  loosely quasi-experimental type manner. His own patients are the reason he was even found. His students have been recorded testing. And a new generation of teachings is coming to the forefront basically confirming everything he said as true

 

And what evidence have you?? Idiots posting videos online in an attempt to discredit a person WHO NEVER WANTED any publicity, money or fame because their mind is unopen and stuck in a westernized materialistic reductionist paradigm that dies by the day

 

2 hours ago, lifeforce said:

 

Oh, a picture of an asain man sitting meditating. This proves nothing. Parlour tricks and fanciful claims to sell books and send people on wild goose chases around Indonesia.

 

Wild goose chases?? scores of people have been to see Chang. What planet do you live on?

 There was no fanciful claims....there is plenty of evidence on the video and testimony

 

And you have?? As the person above does...absolutely nothing

 

But heres an idea...seek him out...his address is online so it will save you the countless hours it took the others.

 

But you wont...you'll sit there in your chair...regurgitating unsubstantiated nonsense just like the other individual.

3 minutes ago, lifeforce said:

 

No it's not.

As for putting me on ignore, I couldn't care less. This means you believe you are right and refuse to enter any civilised debate.

 

There is no debate here

 

Have you been to see Chang? have you tested him? have you experienced what the others have?

 

The answer to all 3 is most likely no...therefore you're unqualified to form any worthwhile opinion of what he is doing, unless it is based on the testimony of others....and because you literally ignore that....your opinion is  actually based off of nothing

 

No evidence

No experience

No understanding

 

So wheres the debate to be had?

[lifeforce]

1 minute ago, pegasus1992 said:

 

Actually Substantiate what you are saying, or else stop claiming false nonsense

 

Chang has been verified...countless students...students of his students....he's been examined by a physicist and a medical doctor on camera in a  loosely quasi-experimental type manner. His own patients are the reason he was even found. His students have been recorded testing. And a new generation of teachings is coming to the forefront basically confirming everything he said as true

 

And what evidence have you?? Idiots posting videos online in an attempt to discredit a person WHO NEVER WANTED any publicity, money or fame because their mind is unopen and stuck in a westernized materialistic reductionist paradigm that dies by the day

 

 

Wild goose chases?? scores of people have been to see Chang. What planet do you live on?

 There was no fanciful claims....there is plenty of evidence on the video and testimony

 

And you have?? As the person above does...absolutely nothing

 

But heres an idea...seek him out...his address is online so it will save you the countless hours it took the others.

 

But you wont...you'll sit there in your chair...regurgitating unsubstantiated nonsense just like the other individual.

 

There is no debate here

 

Have you been to see Chang? have you tested him? have you experienced what the others have?

 

The answer to all 3 is most likely no...therefore you're unqualified to form any worthwhile opinion of what he is doing, unless it is based on the testimony of others....and because you literally ignore that....your opinion is  actually based off of nothing

 

No evidence

No experience

No understanding

 

So wheres the debate to be had?

 

I suppose you have been to see John Chang ? Probably not.

Why would I want to seek him out ? I have no interest in chasing around the world looking for someone who may or may not exist.

As for plenty of evidence/testimony, anyone can say anything, doesn't mean it's true. Maybe there was an agenda in the first place.

Where is YOUR evidence, not 3rd party myths either. YOURS.

[lifeforce]

3 minutes ago, GSmaster said:

I would like to see these people say this to chang personally, in close range.

That he is a fire tricker, clown, and focus shower.

 

Gullible hero-worship of a trickster and fraudster.

[pegasus1992]

5 minutes ago, GSmaster said:

 

I would like to see these people say this to chang personally, in close range.

That he is a fire tricker, clown, and focus shower.

 

I would also, but that wont happen.

 

2 minutes ago, lifeforce said:

 

I suppose you have been to see John Chang ? Probably not.

Why would I want to seek him out ? I have no interest in chasing around the world looking for someone who may or may not exist.

As for plenty of evidence/testimony, anyone can say anything, doesn't mean it's true. Maybe there was an agenda in the first place.

Where is YOUR evidence, not 3rd party myths either. YOURS.

 

I do not need to because I am making no claims about him, I am only referring to the testimony of those that have

 

And as for myths...

 

We have

 

A very famous anthropologist, who was well known long before he ever encountered Chang

A medical doctor

A physicist (Who is actually on Linkedin....feel free to contact him)

The former CEO of the Mind Science Foundation (Also a publised author and most certainly does exist)

Kostas Danoas (Books, and countless interviews)

Jim McMillan (Who is on video with Chang twice, also has pictures..book..interviews..and leaked the teachings)

mjjbecker (Member on here)

Andreas

Seandenty (Former member)

David Verdesi (Who brought people to see him, WHO HAD HIS OWN HIDDEN AGENDA)

 

There are but a few names, all of which who have given evidence or detailed accounts of their interactions with this man

 

But you are suggesting they are all liars? or in some kind of conspiracy together

 

What about all the people in the pictures with Chang?

 

 

All Liars too??? and i guess the picture is photo-shopped?

 

Please stop embarrassing yourself now...... there's no need for it

 

[lifeforce]

This is my final post on the matter.

I've got better things to do than to argue with random people on an internet forum.

From the words of the Buddha:

 

 

Kalama Sutta

The people of Kalama asked the Buddha who to believe out of all the ascetics, sages, venerables, and holy ones who, like himself, passed through their town. They complained that they were confused by the many contradictions they discovered in what they heard. The Kalama Sutta is the Buddha's reply.

–Do not believe anything on mere hearsay.

–Do not believe in traditions merely because they are old and have been handed down for many generations and in many places.

–Do not believe anything on account of rumors or because people talk a a great deal about it.

–Do not believe anything because you are shown the written testimony of some ancient sage.

–Do not believe in what you have fancied, thinking that, because it is extraordinary, it must have been inspired by a god or other wonderful being. 

–Do not believe anything merely because presumption is in its favor, or because the custom of many years inclines you to take it as true.

–Do not believe anything merely on the authority of your teachers and priests.

–But, whatever, after thorough investigation and reflection, you find to agree with reason and experience, as conducive to the good and benefit of one and all and of the world at large, accept only that as true, and shape your life in accordance with it.

The same text, said the Buddha, must be applied to his own teachings.

–Do not accept any doctrine from reverence, but first try it as gold is tried by fire.

[pegasus1992]

3 minutes ago, lifeforce said:

This is my final post on the matter.

I've got better things to do than to argue with random people on an internet forum.

From the words of the Buddha:

 

 

Kalama Sutta

The people of Kalama asked the Buddha who to believe out of all the ascetics, sages, venerables, and holy ones who, like himself, passed through their town. They complained that they were confused by the many contradictions they discovered in what they heard. The Kalama Sutta is the Buddha's reply.

–Do not believe anything on mere hearsay.

–Do not believe in traditions merely because they are old and have been handed down for many generations and in many places.

–Do not believe anything on account of rumors or because people talk a a great deal about it.

–Do not believe anything because you are shown the written testimony of some ancient sage.

–Do not believe in what you have fancied, thinking that, because it is extraordinary, it must have been inspired by a god or other wonderful being. 

–Do not believe anything merely because presumption is in its favor, or because the custom of many years inclines you to take it as true.

–Do not believe anything merely on the authority of your teachers and priests.

–But, whatever, after thorough investigation and reflection, you find to agree with reason and experience, as conducive to the good and benefit of one and all and of the world at large, accept only that as true, and shape your life in accordance with it.

The same text, said the Buddha, must be applied to his own teachings.

–Do not accept any doctrine from reverence, but first try it as gold is tried by fire.

 

 Im not even  a little surprised you cannot substantiate anything that you have said 

 

And a very poor attempt to avoid the question

 

2/10