The Reality of Life & Death

[Patrick Brown]

All things are relative and the minds of people have been evolved over thousands of years by those that would control. The fear of death together with the preciousness of life have been upheld as being sacrosanct in an attempt to manipulate the perceptions of the masses. 

 

LIFE:

We all struggle to accept the fragility and fleeting nature of our existence but tend to only do so within a framework that we have been indoctrinated into. We are told what is a 'good life' and what is a 'bad life' when these are in reality phantoms which only exist to exert control and remove any desire for speculation. Indeed where there is greater truth to be found it is often distorted by those that wish to keep control. 

 

Secret groups shrouded in mystery have existed for as long as mankind itself because as the saying goes 'knowledge is power'. 

 

DEATH:

Many of us here will accept that death isn't something to fear and may even be a release into a fantastical universe of our own creation. If we factor in time-dilation we are left wondering if life after death isn't in fact a much greater life lasting for an unknown duration of time? Perhaps to die is to be born into a greater life and makes this world with all its stunted and limited perceptions seem like a practice run or dress-rehearsal? 

 

THE MEANING OF LIFE:

So what purpose does life serve in our current sphere of experience? Perhaps we are choosing the colours of our rainbow the pallet from which we will paint our greater life in-death? As the blossoms fade and the fruit ripens what are we doing other than defining our universe to become? 

 

THE MEANING OF DEATH: 

If we accept that in death there may indeed be life so therefore what is death other than a transition into another sphere of existence one in which we have predefined the parameters of experience through our earthly existence? We have been shopping and dressed ourselves according to our desires or lack thereof in garments which are an expression of ourselves manifest. But as we undress to lay to sleep so our garments are removed one by one and cast aside as a butterfly (moth) emerges from it's cocoon.

 

Journeying into less which is bliss-within-bliss and being-which-is-non-being towards boundless ecstasy the rapture of nought becoming spiralling is rejoined with sensation and the vision again dresses for it's new characterisation. 

 

Edited March 27, 2019 by Patrick Brown

[Apech]

Last time I was philosophising about life and death, someone said 'cheer up, it could be worse' - so I did and it was.

[rideforever]

Most of human thought and conception comes from looking out of the eyes seeing the world and making deductions.
Unfortunately this does not work very well.

The reason is that the subject is where the answers lie.  In fact for humans the subject is in mid-formation and we are here to hone cultivate and finally complete the subject, through engagement with the world's difficulties (that's why in the Bhagavad Gita it says you must fight.)

 

It is not a question of "what it is", or "what I am".   It is a question of how can I complete myself, how can I evolve myself, how can I form myself.   There is a relationship between the former type of questions, and the latter, but you must also see the great difference in intent of the two types of questions.

 

Continuing to look out of the eyes and try to make deductions, like the philosophers who haven't answered a single question in thousandsd of years ... is very unintelligent.   It is like watching the Brexit news and imagining it will lead to understanding.  It will not.

 

Spirituality is the rapid acceleration of your completion.  Mostly extremely poorly explained.   Most teachers who found "a way", had found "a way" but didn't really understand what it meant nor how it worked.    Nevertheless they tried to teach something, that they knew worked ... even if they didn't know how it worked.

 

What you can be sure of, is the dead stop breathing and stop facebooking and stop playing with their Nespresso machines.
And that it is good to be alive.
And that mankind is a mess, individually and collectively.
And that suffering does actually quite a lot.
So .... why not try, to be an eagle.   

What have you got to lose ?

 

 

[rideforever]

I wish to be.

 

[silent thunder]

ever unfolding

life feeds on decaying life

decay nurtures life

 

[dwai]

Both life and death only appear to be. What is life, but animation of an organism, and death,  but the decay of the same organism?

 

Neither proves anything. What seemed to exist, seems to cease to exist. That one is ever free, ever untouched by either life or death.  

[Jim D.]

"This too shall pass."

 

In my will I have requested that my ashes be spread under a tree so that I will live on infinitely. You see my ashes will feed the tree and I will become a part of that tree be it a leaf, or a branch, or sap, or a root. I will have changed in substance and matter but none the less my growth will be cyclical and ever remaining. No matter if that tree dies, I will continue to nurture something forever.

 

In my readings it is obvious that some men are afraid to die, or of death (the process thereof), and therefore find solace in religion, cult, philosophy, endless intellectualizing this existence, attachments and...prayers. I have seen the process of death. The human being fades from now to then. There is no conscious awareness when 'then' happens. The body and mind robs those final moments from the person that ceases to live.  And then...

 

The void is filled in by spectators, tears, loved ones, others remorse and post funeral dinners, wills being read, and clothes given away.

[Pilgrim]

1 hour ago, dwai said:

Neither proves anything. What seemed to exist, seems to cease to exist. That one is ever free, ever untouched by either life or deat

What is ever free is tied  to both life and death and what seems to exist and also seems to cease to exist . Think on that.

[Jim D.]

It does not seem that your response relates to what I have shared. There has been much thought on the subject of life and death in all the years I have  spent here on Earth. Nothing that has been said or pondered changes the fact that "we are born, we live, and then we die." The rest that is created in wondering whether I have counted in some way creates existential anxiety. 

[windwalker]

 

Worked as an infantry field medic for some 10yrs in the military.

People die in training for war, using the machines of war.

 

happens...

 

I remember my fist day in basic training.  The drill sergeants were looking up in the air laughing.

An airborne unit just started to jump out of their C130  over the drop zone.. 

Some of the chutes did not open completely,  their secondary chutes  tangled in the lines also did not deploy. 

 

Falling to the ground the chutes trailing behind them.  The drill sergeants pointing the sky laughing 

 I would later learn they were called streamers.  Don't remember if they died or just got broken up 

hitting the ground. 

 

thinking back on it, they laughed because it wasn't them, but could have been..

many recently back from the vietnam war they had what might be called  gallows humor.

 

In the grunt units I served in many of the old timers also had the same type of humor.

 

had once stenciled on my track  M577 "tracked vech"  

 

"Born to die

Trained to kill"

 

reflecting my inner thoughts 

 

My plt sgt thought it was funny,  as he told 

me to paint over it...

 

Have worked on people already dead, 

couldn't stop working on them until

a doctor pronounced them dead. 

 

Have worked on people who passed in and out of what might be called death

 

Have worked on people who've been dead for awhile,  and were later found

by their units.  When I say worked on I mean when they arrived in a body bag

and some one had to unzip the bag so they could be photographed. 

Lucky me,,,,not 

 

I could never reconcile myself with the possibility of working on someone 

who due to their injuries would never be the same in life, and would not have a good life

because of them.   Feeling death is death  maybe not so good for grunt medic

 

After 10yrs I reconciled myself to death and left the medical corps for another MOS  (job) 

Thinking back on things,  had to have a way of separating myself from what was happening, 

some have told me I'm not to empathetic, maybe so...

 

 when I pass road kill I say a small prayer 

 

" Amituofo

I am no more, nor no less then you.

May we meet on the river of life"

 

a little long in the tooth as they say,

waiting my own time....

 

Amituofo

I am no more, nor no less then you.

May we meet on the river of life"

Edited March 28, 2019 by windwalker

[Pilgrim]

I want to thank you for your service, your sharing of your life is very moving to me.

 

Having been in the military I know of what you are relating especially with the humor. I can easily see myself as the one being worked on and understand the impossible orders you were forced to carry out under terrible circumstances and unavoidable personal cost to yourself.

 

Service aside thanks for being one of those guys who took it on the chin hard at great personal sacrifice to give others a chance to live longer.

 

Some may say it was following orders and was your MOS Military Occupational Specialty / Job but I say for the one doing the job it is much more, it is their experience of life. Yours has been very hard at times. 

 

I do know if I were wounded in the field the next face I would want to see ASAP is the face of a medic. Even though some of your guys did not make it you gave them hope and someone to be with when they passed. That is pretty big time in my book.

[windwalker]

2 hours ago, Pilgrim said:

I want to thank you for your service, your sharing of your life is very moving to me

 

Thank you and all members here for your and their service who  have served in the military.

 

Not an easy life choice weather voluntary or not no matter the length of time served, branch of service, or MOS.

 

 Would like to say thanks to the many here who put up with my rambling.  

 

Shout out to "rails"

 

We may disagree on many things.

Hope you never make the mistake of thinking I don't respect or appreciate your service during that time.  I am sure many here also echo this.

 

Had many mentors in the early yrs just back from nam.  Helping to shape the path I would eventually follow.

 

 

Edited March 28, 2019 by windwalker

[dwai]

On 3/27/2019 at 4:48 PM, Pilgrim said:

What is ever free is tied  to both life and death and what seems to exist and also seems to cease to exist . Think on that.

The relation is inverse.  

[OldDog]

I took up study of the Dao as a young man confronted with the confusion of purpose and the times. Even as I did not understand it, there was a ring of truth that I could not ignore. I have been at it ever since. Can't  say I understand it any better. But on the OP subject ...

 

I've come to believe that the life is its own purpose. Not achievement,  accomplishment. We can only know what our experience has given us. To bring those experience into expression is the purpose of life. The Laozi passage of straw dogs comes to mind here.

 

I've come to believe in the cyclic nature of things as described in Daoist texts. From the perspective of western science, the notion of conservation of energy had a ring of truth. Not saying that there is life ... as we know it ... after death but that what remains after the form returns to earth reverts to the general energy of heaven, the universe.

 

I can take sufficient comfort in that.

 

RF said, Spirituality is the rapid acceleration of your completion. My experience suggests that may actually be true. But, what is the limit of acceleration?

 

Some years back, I came to the realization that if I was going to be able to survive the events that were unfolding, I had better come to terms with death. Once again, Daoism brought me to a level of understanding that allowed me to make it through the last ten years or so.

 

So, I will continue to study and practice until my turn comes. What comes to mind here is a quote from Zhuangzi ...'

 

A son must go whithersoever his parents bid him, East, West, North or South. Yin and yang are no other than a man's parents. If yin and yang bid me die quickly, and I demur, then the fault is mine, not theirs. The Great (universe) gives me this form, this toil in manhood, this repose in old age, this rest in death. Surely that which is such a kind arbiter of my life is the best arbiter of my death. (Lin Yutang)

 

 

 

[Everything]

I mean, making war is really not natural. So ofcourse you're not gonna see the value of nature, if you make war with it. But surely, like when you're hungry, the moment you stop fighting with nature. Then you see all the value again. 

Edited March 31, 2019 by Everything

[silent thunder]

A retired CIA/career military man, at his retirement party was approached by a youngin who, staring up asked him with the purity and gravity possessed of the very young.  "what was your job?"

 

His authentic response shifted the energy of the entire group into silence for a time.  It was stated with such authentic simplicity.

 

youngin:  what was your job?

retired man:  I traveled the world, learning secrets and killing strangers, or providing material support to those who did.

youngin:  were they bad strangers?

retired man:  (silence)

Edited March 31, 2019 by silent thunder
added cia/military to first sentence for clarity

[windwalker]

3 hours ago, Everything said:

I mean, making war is really not natural. So of course you're not gonna see the value of nature,

 

 

ya,,,got your point...might want to let "nature" know what they'er doing ain't natural, I mean it's just not,  is it? 

 

 

[Everything]

10 minutes ago, windwalker said:

 

 

ya,,,got your point...might want to let "nature" know what they'er doing ain't natural, I mean it's just not,  is it? 

 

 

Lol, don't come begging me for forgiveness. You have to forgive yourself, if you wanna be happy while alive. Otherwise, you'll just have to wait like the rest of the crowd, untill you die. And then you can be happy again. Because you'll realise there is no reward for violence. And that means, peace has always been natural. But most people will have to wait untill they die before they allow themselves to realise they have always been innocent. 

However, while you remain physically focused through your body, you will always have the freedom to focus appart from who you really are. And in contradiction to your own nature. You may say, "oooh... It's too late for me, I already have developed years of strong habbits of resistance to my own true nature. So I have to suffer as long as I am alive." But the truth is, you don't have to undo anything. You just have to decide that you no longer need the pain in order to focus in your full true natural and true freedom. That is non-physical and unconditional primarily and eternal and infinite mostly. 

 

But most people can't come to that decision, without creating a permission slip for themselves to do so. And often death is such a permission slip, that the individual uses to withdraw their consciousness fully from their physical nature and re emerge back into full blown conscious awareness of all that they've become. Meaning, you will know who you truely are. 

 

And meditating, you bypass the need to die basically. You say to your very own greater non-physical consciousness, "I am here, now, ready and willing to surrender back into full conscious awareness of who it is I truely am and all that I have become." 

 

You don't need to ask anyone for forgiveness. And know, that God and also your own soul which is an extension of that as are you an extension of it, will never forgive you. Because your greater non-physical consciousness, HAS NEVER BLAMED YOU FOR ANYTHING EVER. So how can it forgive you, ever? 

 

That blame name shame game only exists here in this physical world, that is something humans do. Ofcourse nature has been corrupted by man to some degree, but it is not something that doesn't have the capability of recallibrating very quickly. Which is also where all the retired forces come in play. To actually become a force of good. However, those inbalances are primarily human waste. That's it! Oh clean up some plastic here and there. Maybe swim with dolphins while you're at it. Because nature will always display a greater capacity of allowing the flow of their greater non-physical nature to fully flow through them, without resistance. 

 

And yeah, even monkeys are displaying greater capacity of and for alignment with their true nature. But that's not something that has to be that way nor was it ever ment to be that way. The animals have actually vouched and bowed in service towards us. To always be here as physical reminders of our own true greater nature. So it would only seem appropriate that you return the favor, by accepting their service, and mediating it. Because as dolphins are stewards of the ocean, so too are humans stewards of the land. You didn't come here to conquer mother nature. You came here to take care of it. Loving care. Because you are of it, and you can never be disconnected from it. Especially not when you die! That's absurd. 

[windwalker]

14 minutes ago, Everything said:

Lol, don't come begging me for forgiveness. You have to forgive yourself, if you wanna be happy while alive. Otherwise, you'll just have to wait like the rest of the crowd, untill you die. And then you can be happy again. Because you'll realise there is no reward for violence. And that means, peace has always been natural. But most people will have to wait untill they die before they allow themselves to realise they have always been innocent. 

 

However, while you remain physically focused through your body, you will always have the freedom to focus appart from who you really are. And in contradiction to your own nature.

 

You may say, "oooh... It's too late for me, I already have developed years of strong habbits of resistance to my own true nature. So I have to suffer as long as I am alive." But the truth is, you don't have to undo anything. You just have to decide that you no longer need the pain in order to focus in your full true natural and true freedom. That is non-physical and unconditional primarily and eternal and infinite mostly. 

 

 

you would be better off speaking for your self.

As noted I've come to terms with death, its always present

a friend I await . 

 

 

 

 

[Everything]

12 minutes ago, windwalker said:

 

you would be better off speaking for your self.

As noted I've come to terms with death, its always present

a friend I await . 

 

 

 

 

Yeah, but I'm just saying, you don't need to wait untill you're dead, before you allow yourself to be fully alive here and now with all that is who you truely are flowing fully through you here and now. That's why you came here after all, to be a human alive. That's why you're here now. And it's not like you've been waiting to die your entire life! There has been atleast some moments in your life, whicj is so for all of us, where you had no resistance in your physical being. And in those moments you felt all of your true nature flow through you. And all it requires for you is to just remember that, and poof, back to fully alive you are again. And sometimes you can even remember a time where everything was just serenity or peaceful. And you simply weren't thinking allot of thoughts that caused a gap between you and you greater non-physical nature. So you might have felt some sense of appreciation, maybe watching the sky or something like that. Often you don't really have a specific reason why you feel that alignment, so it goes unnoticed. But if you can remember atleast one of those moments, then you're done. That's it. You accomplished everything that dying would. 

[liminal_luke]

40 minutes ago, Everything said:

Lol, don't come begging me for forgiveness. i

 

I usually have a hard time taking in and understanding your posts, Everything.  But that was beautiful...

[windwalker]

1 hour ago, Everything said:

Yeah, but I'm just saying, you don't need to wait untill you're dead, before you allow yourself to be fully alive here and now with all that is who you truely are flowing fully through you here and now.

 

apparently some find meaning in your words.

dont waste them on me....

 

later  

...

 

 

 

"

Edited April 1, 2019 by windwalker

[silent thunder]

is the conversation decaying?

 

is the death of one concept, the nurturing of another?

as the decay of life in my belly nurtures the life of my body?

 

never considered conversations to have life... yet they are part of life.

hmm...

[ilumairen]

On 3/28/2019 at 12:00 AM, windwalker said:

I could never reconcile myself with the possibility of working on someone 

who due to their injuries would never be the same in life, and would not have a good life

because of them.   Feeling death is death  maybe not so good for grunt medic

 

This is actually something I wrestled with in my own way. It is it's own story, and different than yours. However I could not escape this underlying thought that correlated with what you've expressed here. 

 

Some time later, I spoke a bit of the incident in a CPR/first-aid class, and was completely shut down by the flabbergasted interjections of not only my classmates but the instructor as well. 

 

After speaking with the wife who showed up at the scene of her husband's accident some days later, I've no doubt that death would have been easier on his family. 

 

On 3/28/2019 at 12:00 AM, windwalker said:

After 10yrs I reconciled myself to death and left the medical corps for another MOS  (job) 

Thinking back on things,  had to have a way of separating myself from what was happening, 

some have told me I'm not to empathetic, maybe so...

 

I am sorry for what you've experienced, and experientially understand that the perceived coldness can be it's own form of empathy. 

 

On 3/28/2019 at 12:00 AM, windwalker said:

 when I pass road kill I say a small prayer 

 

" Amituofo

I am no more, nor no less then you.

May we meet on the river of life"

 

a little long in the tooth as they say,

waiting my own time....

 

Amituofo

I am no more, nor no less then you.

May we meet on the river of life"

 

Lovely my friend. 

[ilumairen]

Edit.. 

 

: rights the soap box I kicked over and wanders off :

Edited April 1, 2019 by ilumairen