The Way of Understanding

[neti neti]

The way of understanding or, "The Bird's Way", is a direct approach "system of meditation" by Siddharameshwar Maharaj, Nisargadatta's guru. Its foundation is believed to have been succinctly laid out by Nisargadatta in the following Q&A.

 

Quote

Questioner: You told me that I can be considered under three aspects:

the personal (vyakti), the super-personal (vyakta) and the impersonal (avyakta).

 

The Avyakta is the universal and real pure 'I'; the Vyakta is its reflection in consciousness as ‘I am'; the Vyakti is the totality of physical and vital processes.

 

Within the narrow confines of the present moment, the super-personal is aware of the person, both in space and time; not only one person, but the long series of persons strung together on the thread of karma. It is essentially the witness as well as the residue of the accumulated experiences, the seat of memory, the connecting link (sutratma). It is man's character which life builds and shapes from birth to birth. The universal is beyond all name and shape, beyond consciousness and character, pure unselfconscious being. Did I put down your views rightly?

 

Maharaj: On the level of the mind -- yes. Beyond the mental level not a word applies.

 

 

Q: I can understand that the person is a mental construct, a collective noun for a set of memories and habits. But, he to whom the person happens, the witnessing centre, is it mental too?

 

M: The personal needs a base, a body to identify oneself with, just as a colour needs a surface to appear on. The seeing of the colour is independent of the colour -- it is the same whatever the colour.  One needs an eye to see a colour. The colours are many, the eye is single.

 

The impersonal is like the light in the colour and also in the eye, yet simple, single, indivisible and unperceiveable, except in its manifestations. Not unknowable, but unperceiveable, un-objectival, inseparable.

Neither material nor mental, neither objective nor subjective, it is the root of matter and the source of consciousness. Beyond mere living and dying, it is the all-inclusive, all-exclusive Life, in which birth is death and death is birth.

 

 

Q: The Absolute or Life you talk about, is it real, or a mere theory to cover up our ignorance?

 

M: Both. To the mind, a theory; in itself, a reality. It is reality in its spontaneous and total rejection of the false. Just as light destroys darkness by its very presence, so does the absolute destroy imagination. To see that all knowledge is a form of ignorance is itself a movement of reality.

 

The witness is not a person. The person comes into being when there is a basis for it, an organism, a body. In it the absolute is reflected as awareness. Pure awareness becomes self-awareness. When there is a self, self-awareness is the witness. When there is no self to witness, there is no witnessing either.

 

It is all very simple; it is the presence of the person that complicates. See that there is no such thing as a permanently separate person and all becomes clear. Awareness -- mind -- matter -- they are one reality in its two aspects as immovable and movable, and the three attributes of inertia, energy and harmony.

 

 

Q: What comes first: consciousness or awareness?

 

M: Awareness becomes consciousness when it has an object. The object changes all the time. In consciousness there is movement; awareness by itself is motionless and timeless, here and now.

 

Edited March 31, 2019 by neti neti

[rideforever]

This type of explanation is of no use.  It is highly technical coming from an awakened being, but nobody will understand it.

It sounds fancy but the understanding is just illusory.

 

In order to enter the same state as Nisargadatta you must follow his path, meaning retrace his footsteps.  Reading his life you see that after a productive life (step 1), he was introduced to a guru who personally instructed him and in whom he had total faith (step 2), and then Nisargadatta coming home from work spent 3 or 4 hours every night contemplating / meditating what the guru had said for several years (step 3), finally leading to realisation (step 4).

This is the way to do it.   

Reading fancy sounding passages is not the way to do it.

[neti neti]

50 minutes ago, rideforever said:

This type of explanation is of no use.  It is highly technical coming from an awakened being, but nobody will understand it.

It sounds fancy but the understanding is just illusory.

 

In order to enter the same state as Nisargadatta you must follow his path, meaning retrace his footsteps.  Reading his life you see that after a productive life (step 1), he was introduced to a guru who personally instructed him and in whom he had total faith (step 2), and then Nisargadatta coming home from work spent 3 or 4 hours every night contemplating / meditating what the guru had said for several years (step 3), finally leading to realisation (step 4).

This is the way to do it.   

Reading fancy sounding passages is not the way to do it.

 

It seems retracing his steps would also be illusory if you were to remain consistent. What guru? What meditator? What realisation?

 

You're certainly entitled to dislike the content shared. But at no time has it been suggested that reading "fancy passages" was a "way to do it".

Edited March 31, 2019 by neti neti

[rideforever]

Why would retracing his steps be illusory ?   
It worked for him, it worked for his teacher.
This is the way things work.

[neti neti]

4 minutes ago, rideforever said:

Why would retracing his steps be illusory ?   
It worked for him, it worked for his teacher.
This is the way things work.

 

Because that type of practice is of no use. It's far too simple, and no one will ever be able to achieve that "state." It sounds practical, but the attainment is just illusory. See how that works?

[rideforever]

No I have no idea what you are talking about.

 

Nisargadatta achieved realisation in the normal way for Indian sages.

[neti neti]

8 minutes ago, rideforever said:

No I have no idea what you are talking about.

 

Nisargadatta achieved realisation in the normal way for Indian sages.

 

What realisation? What sages? Who achieved what? There is no Nisargadatta.

 

Having understood this, of what use would that understanding be?

Edited March 31, 2019 by neti neti

[rideforever]

Okay, I see.

[neti neti]

27 minutes ago, rideforever said:

Okay, I see.

 

Do you? Of course, if one were so led, one could also go home and meditate for 3-4 hrs a day on these fancy passages for several years, with similar results. This would be the equivalent of what Nisargadatta did with the words of his guru,  is it not? 

Edited March 31, 2019 by neti neti

[rideforever]

Yes the unintelligent and insincere modern-day non-people living in the plastic world have taken the idea of non-existence and turned it into a way to not do anything, whilst thinking themselves very clever and enlightened, whilst checking facebook and sitting on the couch.

 

But this isn't what is meant by non-existence.

If you read the life stories of all the great teachers, they took a long journey and they ended up somewhere very far away.

 

Modern day people are indeed empty, but in the wrong way.

 

Sorry, some details.

 

A Buddha is a channel of Light, a little like an aqueduct.   A channel is empty, nevertheless it has been built with a great deal of hardwork.

 

A human is by default empty, meaning nothing.  It carries nothing.   It channels nothing.   It is just meaningless, spirituality speaking.  But it has the opportunity of a great journey to becoming an aqueduct.   That journey involves first of all establishing a normal human life which is grounding, then discovering the source or god, then the personal identity or the son, and then surrendering.  At which point you become a light channel and it is the light-channel that is immortal.

 

There are other ways to live honourable lives as well.   Being a good human being, productive, healthy and strong is of great service.

 

Although I must say that I do not wish to discourage anyone in what they are doing understand or believe, or their efforts, or trajectory.   

Edited March 31, 2019 by rideforever

[neti neti]

10 minutes ago, rideforever said:

Yes the unintelligent and insincere modern-day non-people living in the plastic world have taken the idea of non-existence and turned it into a way to not do anything, whilst thinking themselves very clever and enlightened, whilst checking facebook and sitting on the couch.

 

But this isn't what is meant by non-existence.

If you read the life stories of all the great teachers, they took a long journey and they ended up somewhere very far away.

 

Modern day people are indeed empty, but in the wrong way.

 

Perhaps it's possible the one observing unintelligence and insincerity is merely observing the reflection of his own plastic world. Convinced there is much to do to gain enlightenment, he prides himself in his discipline, and turns up a nose to the couch bums doing nothing to deserve it.

 

Some go on long journeys never to be seen again. Some journeys consist of couch-surfing for years. Curiously, such non-journeying can produce the same results as the aspirant travelling the world in search of a teacher.

 

Both may simply find themselves where they first began. As if they never left, and as if they never stayed.

Edited March 31, 2019 by neti neti

[rideforever]

Yes they both end up in the same place.
One did not change.
One did change.
The are both empty.
One is empty and carries nothing.
One is empty and carries everything.

[neti neti]

Or perhaps there is no place,

and nothing ever happens,

thus there are no changes,

since there's no one else here,

the emptiness, is the everything, is me.

[rideforever]

Then, if you cannot distinguish between the beginning and ending, then it is certain that you have not begun.

 

But .... on my journey I realised that it is difficult to be sure about such things ... the only way to be sure is to try, and try with full force.   Then you will know.   If you enter the Indian path with full force soon you will see you leave the beginning then you know that it goes somewhere and you will not think there is nothing to do.   And this is practical, it is good to try hard at things, then you know with your own eyes.

 

Some people who are ordinary and not spiritual seem also to be holy right where they are.   So I do not wish to discourage anyone.   However I see many people who are spiritual (in all traditions) but do not practice and inwardly do not understand that they need to practice ; and they are in error.

 

Edited March 31, 2019 by rideforever

[neti neti]

Perhaps the beginning is the end, and the end of distinctions is just the beginning.

[neti neti]

"All you can teach is understanding, the rest comes on its own."
— Sri Nisargadatta Maharaj

[rideforever]

But what is understanding ?

I am afraid the stupid facts of sitting next to your guru, in his house, bowing and praying, singing mantras, eating politely, more bowing, and so on ... deeply affects you.

It is not "words" at all.   That is a wrong comprehension.
In fact, most spirituality is about teaching you a different rhythm of breathing, walking, talking, thinking, feeling ... it is taught person to person, what they actually impart to you is a different way of flowing energy in the being, learnt from mimicking them bodily, talking like them, thinking like them, reading like them and so on.   

Then it goes deeply into the system and produces results.
The intellectual material that ends up in most books .... is of minor importance.

[dwai]

Self realization doesn’t require any effort. Just the mind must become still and quiet in order to “realize” that which always is, but seems to be hidden in plain sight. 

 

Each seeker has his/her own journey basss on their story. It might even involve retracing a teacher’s steps. But it seems what is necessary for the individual is what transpires. 

[neti neti]

1 hour ago, rideforever said:

But what is understanding ?

I am afraid the stupid facts of sitting next to your guru, in his house, bowing and praying, singing mantras, eating politely, more bowing, and so on ... deeply affects you.

It is not "words" at all.   That is a wrong comprehension.
In fact, most spirituality is about teaching you a different rhythm of breathing, walking, talking, thinking, feeling ... it is taught person to person, what they actually impart to you is a different way of flowing energy in the being, learnt from mimicking them bodily, talking like them, thinking like them, reading like them and so on.   

Then it goes deeply into the system and produces results.
The intellectual material that ends up in most books .... is of minor importance.

 

But what is comprehension ?

 

Interesting how the mere words of gurus long gone still deeply affect so many today. What would you say to the words of such gurus who've encouraged us to understand that their physical presence is... of minor importance?

Edited March 31, 2019 by neti neti

[rideforever]

Like I said these things can feel ephemeral.
For my own good self, at some point years ago I decided that I couldn't stake my life on the understanding that I had, and that it was worth fully trying some of the retreats / intensive meditation study that was available and in one particular year I did about 5 of different types.   After which point I knew without a shadow of a doubt that it was real and without hard work I would not have it.   But that was a long time ago, and thousands of hours of meditation have passed since then.   Looking back I see that it was a good and practical strategy, that was successful.

[neti neti]

21 hours ago, rideforever said:

Like I said these things can feel ephemeral.
For my own good self, at some point years ago I decided that I couldn't stake my life on the understanding that I had, and that it was worth fully trying some of the retreats / intensive meditation study that was available and in one particular year I did about 5 of different types.   After which point I knew without a shadow of a doubt that it was real and without hard work I would not have it.   But that was a long time ago, and thousands of hours of meditation have passed since then.   Looking back I see that it was a good and practical strategy, that was successful.

 

Yes, that's... understandable.

But it's obviously all ephemeral.

 

Us hard-headed Doubting Thomas's must poke our fingers in the wounds to believe, and so the guru says, come, look and touch... but blessed indeed are those who believe having not seen, for in not-seeing, they have truly seen.

 

I too was once in need of some tangible proof, some trust-building exercises that set the stage for... the "self-empowerment" I sought. Some games to play, with toys the "guru" gifts us with to keep us busy.  

 

"Others" merely need to hear a few words of the guru for a radical and spontaneous transformation; these were already quite ripe.

 

In either instance however, "success" is never contingent upon one's faith in or understanding of the teachings, nor the effort put forth in one's practice. Tradition can become rigid systems of control, but can be necessary for one requiring something to cling onto, such that one is gradually made able to Stop clinging to... oneself.

 

It is in our nature to let go, and give all away. Therein lies true power, whereby all one's understanding is truly understood.

 

 

[rideforever]

You are on a "different" path to me, and to them.

Your path of making no effort but thinking very highly of yourself, is very popular on the internet.
Their path and the path I am on, requires a great deal of effort.
Two paths with two different results.

 

Those drunks in the bar .... what do they have to say ?
Everything is great, yeah just let it all hang out .... come be with us, and have another drink.

No need for effort, just one drink and you are great.
Those people who make effort waste time, soon they will discover no effort is needed !!!
( as the bar has table service and cocktails are half-price )

 

The life stories of all the great teachers tells the same story.
Tremendous effort is required.
But it's not for everyone, as is clearly evident.

Your path is certainly "real" and is popular with many.

 

But what is better than condemnation ?
- Perhaps practicality and experience.

I was always a little confused on going to the Cafe, deciding whether I wanted carrot cake, chocolate cake, lemon cake, or apple pie.   How was I supposed to know what I wanted, until I tried them all.   And so I tried them all, over the course of several visits, or on occasion right there on the spot.
 

And so of course I have followed the spiritual-geniuses-of-no-effort.   It's been quite entertaining, these people are easy to find, and always surrounded by large crowds of double enlightened Buddhas feeling amazing energies.   Yes the "awareness of the awareness of the awareness of the awareness".  Amazing.  One almost gets the same feeling as when watching the internet.

 

At other times, just because I can, I sat in meditation in an austere way from before the sun till after the sun, like a warrior and gave every drop of blood to the tradition.

 

If one can do both, then you have two wings of a bird that flies far.   But of course, most people only do the former.   They never really wanted anything at all.

 

Be warned, Nisargadatta was surrounded by many double-buddhas-who-never-make-effort, all thanking him triple time for his amazing book.   At the end he said nobody had understood, except perhaps the editor of "I Am That" who understood half.

Similarly it is with J.Krishnamurti, another teacher surrounded by double and sometime triple enlightened buddhas who felt the "energy was so amazing" and thanked him continuously for 40 years.   At the end he said nobody had understood.

 

Yes.

 

( Don't worry, it's probably nothing. )

 

 

Edited April 1, 2019 by rideforever

[neti neti]

By all means, keep riding. 

 

I have no path, because I am the effort exerted and the effortlessness on display, therefore, I am the path.

 

Who makes the value judgement as to the efficacy of one's practice or lack thereof, and from where comes his authority? Sounds just like another opinion to me, a high-minded one at that. 

 

Would you then ignore scoff and aim insults at the testimonies of spontaneous awakenings like that of Ramana Maharshi, or those souls born into this world "realised"?

Edited April 1, 2019 by neti neti

[neti neti]

1 hour ago, rideforever said:

The life stories of all the great teachers tells the same story.

Tremendous effort is required.
 

 

Yes, tremendous effort is needed, until of course it's discovered that no effort was ever needed at all, whatsoever. For the call to effort was a call to myself, by myself, and wonderfully... through myself.

 

Edited April 1, 2019 by neti neti

[neti neti]

1 hour ago, rideforever said:

But what is better than condemnation ?

 

I can tell you what may be worse: praise.

 

1 hour ago, rideforever said:

I was always a little confused on going to the Cafe, deciding whether I wanted carrot cake, chocolate cake, lemon cake, or apple pie.   How was I supposed to know what I wanted, until I tried them all.   And so I tried them all, over the course of several visits, or on occasion right there on the spot.

 

Lol, ah yes, choice and the novelty of variety. But how rare it is to entertain the possibility of choice-less awareness?