Type of QiGong On-Line

[Junior Marcus]

Hi, I'm looking at a few options to learn QiGong on line as I'm facing some serious health issues.

 

So far, I've looked at Energy Arts, which seems pretty straightforward and decent.

 

I'm looking at Spring Forest QiGong, and there's lots of testimonials, etc. that goes with it, but I have to admit I get a little bit skeptical when things I don't understand such as long-distance healing, third eye, etc..  I just want to make sure I don't get sucked into a cult!

 

Anyone with direct experience on this, student and non-student?  I mean no offense but I have limited finances so it's important I invest wisely.

 

Thank you.

 

Jr. M.

[Fa Xin]

Hello, Junior Marcus, and welcome.

 

Your membership is approved and we're happy you found your way to us. We look forward to accompanying you on some of the way that you still have to go.

 

Please take the time to read the post pinned at the top of this Welcome page and take a look at the forum Terms and Rules.   This covers all you need to know when getting started.

 

For the first week you will be restricted to ten posts per day but after that you can post as much as you like. Also, until you’ve posted fifteen times in the forums, you’ll be a “Junior Bum” with somewhat restricted access and will be allowed only two private messages per day.

 

Good luck in your pursuits and best wishes to you,

 

Fa Xin and the TDB team

 

Hi Jr M,

 

No direct experience with SF but lots on the board have tried it with varying degrees of success.  And people are usually skeptical at first, but once they feel the energy it tends to change their view.  Hope you enjoy the forum!

 

You are welcome to jump right in to the ongoing discussions, revive an older thread, start a new thread of your own, or start a discussion in the "Newcomer Corner" sub-forum to expand on your introduction or ask general questions to help you get started.

 

May you enjoy your time here.

 

Fa Xin 

[RiverSnake]

Do this movement slowly, 30 minutes a day, outstanding for your health and absolutely free. 

 

 a

 

[Junior Marcus]

Thank you!!

[Junior Marcus]

I'm open to any other recommendations that I can learn on line.

 

Thank you.

[liminal_luke]

Hi Junior Marcus,

 

There are a wide number of programs you might start for physical health improvement.  I like Sheng Zhen healing qigong.  I¨ll post a  youtube of the first few movements below.  By energy arts do you mean Sifu Jenny Lamb´s yigong?  That´s another good one, in my opinion, though somewhat controversial.  It can be very strong and purifying, more so than some are ready for.

 

If it was me, I wouldn´t hesitate to explore Spring Forest, Stillness-Movement, or Flying Phoenix.  Although I don´t have personal experience with these systems, they´ve gotten a lot of good press here and have been around a long time.  I don´t think you can go wrong with any of these three. 

 

Good luck!

 

[thelerner]

We all have things we like and connect with, and then there's a million things we haven't done. 

 

If you're looking for a system that has levels is on the internet and is free, I'd point to you towards Rawn Clarks abardoncompanion.com .  Particularly the Archaeous series  or YHVH chanting series.  Both have healing applications and come in short lessons.  I also like his Center of Stillness guided meditation, but thats got lots of visuals that can be hard to get, but worth it for the 'sealing of the senses' lesson. 

 

I tend to think marry one art, flirt with others.  Though after a decade or two, it may be time for trial separations as you're a different person with different needs and perspective.

Edited April 6, 2019 by thelerner

[rideforever]

Energy Arts does the Dragon & Tiger Qigong DVD, and online course.   

It is excellent, do that one, it is the best I have experienced, it is also grounded and "normal" (i.e. it does not invoke strange beings and strange energies).

I recommend this beyond everything.
I believe it is $300 online, but perhaps a better use of money is to get the excellent DVD, and 3 hours with a private instructor.

 

The 2nd is Healing Sounds.   This is very powerful and simple traditional set, where you breathe poison out of your organs, according to the 5 elements.   Where to learn from ?   Healing Tao have a good one, it is not hard to find. 

In China cancer patients do this a lot.

 

The 3rd is Zhan Zhuang.   It is more difficult to learn but is very powerful long term.   Marc Cohen has a DVD.  Best to get private instruction, once you get going it becomes effortless.

 

If I was very ill I would do perhaps 1hr of each of these every day and I would expect strong results.

In the beginning it is good to have an instructor present even for only a few sessions to give you the flavour.

 

So the plan would be then :

1. Thoroughly opening all the energy channels

2. Expelling dark energy from the organs

3. Long term fundamental healing 

 

[Junior Marcus]

Thank you so much for all the recommendations.

 

I am currently registered with Energy Arts.  I initially started with Dragon and Tiger but never finished it, but switched to Energy Gates QiGong that they recommend for foundational training, and I'm also currently registered with Gods Playing In The Clouds, which is apparently the only QiGong Bruce's master practiced in the last 30 years of his life.

 

 I will look into healing sounds as I've heard about this a lot, and also your other two recommendations Zhan Zhuang.

 

Currently, the only thing I started on a regular basis with once a month private instruction is Mawang Dui QiGong, which is very old from the paintings in the tomb, and was recreated by QiGong, TCM doctors in China; I like it, but I yet have to see the long-term results as I just started it.  I have  a Chen Tai Chi background, so complicated movements are not too hard for me (and a dancer) but the intent behind it is what I find challenging.  I can probably learn 7 QiGong Styles at most (one for each day).  So far I have 3, and if like Healing Sounds and Zhan Zhuang, then that leaves me open to one more; hence I asked about Spring Forest, which sounded good but I was not sure as my metaphysical aspects of it sort of scared me away (not saying I'm not open to it but I like to approach things as scientifically as possible and things that you can actually measure as with some of the benefits of QiGong that's been proven).

 

Thank you  all!

 

 

 

[rideforever]

imo .... ZZ is much better than Opening the Energy Gates ... in the E.A. dissolving methods there is far too much mind-force used to dissolve blockages which is a wrong approach.   In fact BKF's whole practice is suppose to be water method / surrender, and this is completely the opposite technique.   

I tried E.A.'s dissolving for several years, must have done hundreds of painstaking hours, but I find it a totally wrong approach now for several reasons.   

ZZ is much much better.   Mark Cohen / Lam Kam Chuen style (meaning with surrender).  ZZ is the ultimate dissolution by being in the stream of heaven and earth.   ZZ rapidly overtakes Energy Gates in its output, both energetic health strength and spiritual.

 

Also, I find that if you have significant pyschological blocks it is virtually impossible to dissolve them energetically and also it is not desirable to do it that way.   It is faster to use psychotherapy especially something like Inner Family Therapy or Focussing or Feeding Your Demons .... which are all partly energetic partly psychological.

 

As for the Gods Playing in the Clouds ... I believe far too much is made of it, and it's expensive.   I think it is a waste of time practically speaking.   The original practice transmitted to BKF and other western teachers was very very simple consisting of one move (that was told to me by another master).

 

Chen Silk Reeling can be brought to an advanced level for healing but I can't say how far it goes.

[Junior Marcus]

• Thank you for your input, Rideforever, your input is valuable.

I presume ZZ means Zhan Zhuang.  I will check it out, although I seem to be having a hard time finding the DVD unless I missed it totally (the book I see).

 

As for Gods, why would you consider it a waste of time?  Was BK not being truthful in you opinion that this was the last and only Qigong set his master was practicing for the last 30 years of his life?

 

Any opinion on Spring Forest?

 

You can .  Thank you.

 

Jr. Marcus

Edited April 8, 2019 by Junior Marcus

[Mudfoot]

On 2019-04-06 at 2:34 PM, rideforever said:

imo .... ZZ is much better than Opening the Energy Gates ... in the E.A. dissolving methods there is far too much mind-force used to dissolve blockages/... ... /

I tried E.A.'s dissolving for several years, must have done hundreds of painstaking hours, but I find it a totally wrong approach now for several reasons.   

ZZ is much much better. 

I have the same experience, and came to the same conclusion. 

 

Quote

As for the Gods Playing in the Clouds ... 

It is a nice package. It is six simple movements which you fill to the brim with goodies. 

 

And yes, if you do IMA you will say that’s all there. But that is not the point, the point is did you learn it in such an easy way, and as quickly? 

 

I practiced the crap out of it for six months, and than like a thief in the might I took every principle I had learned and put it to use in my regular practice. 

[Earl Grey]

14 hours ago, Junior Marcus said:

• You can PM ****@yahoo.com if you wish.  

 

As your post is viewable in web searches as opposed to other sections of the forum, you may want to have others just PM you directly here and give them your e-mail from there. You are opening yourself to spam from bots as this is searchable in Google and other web search engines. 

[Junior Marcus]

Thanks for the suggestion, Mudfoot, and for the warning Earl Grey.

 

As far as the Tai Chi and Bagua (very new to Bagua), I have not learned much about the health aspects of it, bur rather the martial qigong techniques it sues (like pressure training, five bow theory, rooting, etc.).  Perhaps it has health applications.  My teacher does basic QiGong exercises as it appears, although his Chen and his sifu's chen seems pretty advanced. 

 

As for the QiGong and Yoga, I have only room to learn 7 things right now..., and I'm wondering what your thoughts are.  Basically, I want to get as much diversity is as possible.

 

1) Zhan Zhuang -- After much research, reading and recommendation, I definitely will learn this.

 

2) Mawang Dui - Kind of old and new; they discovered the ancient drawings in a cave, and apparently Qigong masters in China and TCM doctors recreated the form.  It's supposed to do whole body accupuncture without the needles or activate the same energy points, as with other QiGong styles I suppose; not sure how different though as i'm new

 

3) Six Healing Sounds - highly recommended; and used for cancer a lot.

 

4) Chen Style Tai Chi - not really a QiGong but martial art, but i'm interested in it's advanced health aspects too.  I would imagine if you do it at a high level it will come naturally, and I'm hoping the other QiGong styles will "energize it more" like No. 1

 

5) Bagua - I'm new and they have meditative aspects to it that involves visualization to create relaxed internal pressure and they have daoyin exercises prior to the form; and they have sort of similar concepts they do in my Tai Chi class.

 

6) Yin Yoga - A friend of mine teaches it; not really purely Chinese but the one in Toronto that teaches it consults with a Chinese TCM doctor

 

7.  And for the final day:

 

Spring Forest?

Gods Playing in the Clouds?

Energy Gates (I think I'm ditching this one)

18 Luohand Hands (something Buddhist?)?

 

Any suggestion will be welcome.  You may also suggest your own list that you think would be good from my perspective.  My goal is to first regain health, combat physical and internal illness, mental calm, and later on teach others.

 

Kindly note I'm not trying to chase many rabbits here.  I am on a long break and can practice about 3-4 hours a day; have the space to practice too, and these are something I will gradually acquire; I'm quite diligent in practice; being a dance instructor currently.  Eventually, once I'm well and become proficient (even if that takes 5-10 years), I want to transition to teaching QiGong/Tai Chi maybe (I'll have to start all over again), but I have been doing dance for 25 years and that's too long (lol).

 

 

Edited April 8, 2019 by Junior Marcus

[Sebastian]

Just wanted to provide some clarification so you don't get the wrong impression of Spring Forest Qigong.

 

The abilities you wrote about regarding long distance healing, third eye abilities etc...  are universal, they lie in the Yin sphere of life, and are in no way exclusive to Spring Forest Qigong. The way you can view this, is there are two main spheres of practice or abilities in Qigong. First there is the Yang sphere (which works at speeds below the velocity of light), and which utilizes the Chinese medical meridian system. And second there is the Yin sphere (which works faster than the speed of light) and appears to be non-linear to our intellectual minds, to nature's laws and even time. In fact, it transcends all of that. The Yin sphere, is what you might call the sphere of Divine vibration, and it can bypass the medical meridian system and do what doctors would refer to as 'miracle healings'. These two spheres correspond to Qi and (spiritual) Light respectively. One sphere ends at the speed of physical light, and the other starts at the speed of physical light. A practitioner typically starts working with Qi, then Qi and Light, and eventually only with Light if one wishes. That's the pattern we follow at SFQ. After you train with Light for a while you will eventually develop the abilities you wrote about. 

 

When entering into the field of Qigong with a consumer driven mindset, like most of us do at the start, it's natural to gravitate towards a practice that makes sense intellectually, where all the inner workings are fully exposed. You might think : "OK if I keep moving Qi with my hands from point A to point B, along the medical liver channel, and I keep doing it 200 times, then at least I know I'll have done something positive for myself, it's a safe bet". That is the scientific approach to Qigong and it works. You might even find studies and papers that prove the effectiveness of such practices. It seems this is what you are looking for.

 

When you work with (spiritual) Light however, it's impossible to scientifically prove what's happening. It's non-linear, so by definition it's impossible to make a case for it scientifically. That's why for a system that uses Light a lot like SFQ you will see a lot of testimonials. Because when people can't prove to you that something works, all they can do is the one thing they know how: share what happened to them, often in shock of the whole thing.

 

Personally, as a practitioner of the system, I would highly recommend SFQ as a healing Qigong system that works with both Light and Qi. This system is interesting in that there have also been some scientific research papers at the Mayo Clinic that proved its effectiveness. You can read these papers on their website if you want. The Master is also a wonderful person with a warm heart. His motto is "a healer in every family, and a world without pain". I can confidently say his Qigong achieves that.

 

In closing, if you are looking for a pure Yang sphere practice without any of the spiritual stuff, then try the 8 pieces of brocade. If you are feeling adventurous and want to try a completely non-linear practice, try Stillness Movement. I would say SFQ is in-between.

 

In terms of gaining the abilities you described, I doubt you will develop some with the brocades, but you may well with SFQ, and you likely will with Stillness movement which is entirely non-linear and hence works beyond all limitations of space and time. But having these abilities won't place you in a cult like you were worried about. It just means you are human, and doing what humans can do in the Yin (non visible) sphere of life. Hope this helps.

[Mudfoot]

1 hour ago, Junior Marcus said:

 

 

7.  And for the final day:

 

Spring Forest?

Gods Playing in the Clouds?

Energy Gates (I think I'm ditching this one)

18 Luohand Hands (something Buddhist?)?

 

I think you are taking too big a bite out of the smorgasbord, but you will have to discover that for yourself 😁

 

Ahh, something buddhist, willing to do 3-4 hours a day, willing to do IMA and standing, long time-perspective. My ppd is full of it. 

[rideforever]

In terms of doing many styles, my way of doing it is every day I do the same routine which involves 3 styles.   

Then on Fridays I mix it up and experiment with different things.   Over time I swap things in and out the basic practice.   

This is a good rhythm for me as I do the same thing (or almost the same thing) every day, but vary it come the weekend.   

Also I have various simplified practices I do if I am not well, or otherwise very distracted.

[liminal_luke]

Junior Marcus,

 

When first dining at the qi gong buffet, it´s tempting to pick up a little of many dishes.  I´d resist this temptation.  Better, I think, to pick one thing and practice that one thing with dedication.  Here are my reasons...

 

(1) As a personal experiment, you´ll probably want to understand how a practice effects you.  Say you´re doing 7 different things and your health improves.  Which of your various practices is responsible for the change?  It will be difficult to know with any certainty.

 

(2) Every practice will create changes in your energetic body, and in some cases these changes are not harmonious with each other.  It´s a little like trying to listen to a song on the radio and tuning into seven different frequencies at the same time.

 

(3) Something magical happens with singular dedication.  Practitioners who pick one thing just seem to get farther.  Can I woo-woo out on you for a second?  My personal belief is that a lot of the oomph that comes from a practice is due to unseen support from the spirit realm.  Perhaps this is the power of lineage.  Say you decide to pick stillness-movement as your practice.  I believe there´s crucial support available from the spirits of master practitioners of that system who have passed on.  These spirits are more likely to lend a hand if they see you´ve put all your practice eggs in their qi gong basket.  I can´t prove this but it´s what I believe.

 

I think we intuitively understand the power of doing one thing with intensive dedication, even if we often ignore this intuition (myself included).  Try this thought experiment.  Picture in your mind a master practitioner who has practiced hours a day for years and gained significant understanding and ability.  Is this person more likely to be someone who does seven different things from different systems or just one?

 

 

Edited April 8, 2019 by liminal_luke

[Junior Marcus]

Hmmm...lots of things to think about. 

 

Would you guys consider Yin Yoga an Buddhist and Daoist practice?

 

Thanks for the info regarding the metaphysical aspects of QiGong; it gives me comfort that the people who are doing it are not just those who seem to follow things blindly and understand that there are just things you can't explain (yet) but works.

 

I would still like to pursue the diversity of it but will focus on 3 for now, maximum 4; the rest i'll just take my stride.  Thank you so much for everyone's time; it's been invaluable, seriously.

 

Anyone here practices Mawang Dui?

[Mudfoot]

3 hours ago, Junior Marcus said:

 

understand that there are just things you can't explain (yet) but works.

Yes, you can divide a practice in the things we can explain and the things we can't yet explain. 

 

There are many effects in qigong that can be explained by (not so well) known physiological reactions, with or without psychological aspects. 

And some explanations are before their time (that is, more or less unvalidated speculations). 

 

Some things are yet unexplainable, and who knows if and when we will ever understand them. 

[rideforever]

On 07/04/2019 at 7:00 PM, Junior Marcus said:

I presume ZZ means Zhan Zhuang.  I will check it out, although I seem to be having a hard time finding the DVD unless I missed it totally (the book I see).  As for Gods, why would you consider it a waste of time?  Was BK not being truthful in you opinion that this was the last and only Qigong set his master was practicing for the last 30 years of his life?

 

Here is Mark Cohen's website with link for DVD, he also has a great series of the Nuts & Bolts of ZZ, which is on youtube .... also linked from this webpage.  "Aloha".  All in all I really like spending time with him, he is mercifully grounded and authentic.
http://insidezhanzhuang.com/

BKF is a great teacher but all teachers need to earn money and I have no quarrel with that, without money there is no school or teacher.

I have found his single practice DVDs to be absolutely first class, even old ones I dug up on ebay.
It is not a great approach to try and do the highest ever practice, when starting out.   As for the 16 Neigong I think the Heaven & Earth BKF practice is much better clearer and easier to get in to that using Gods as a vehicle for it, which is very difficult and I imagine gets poor results.
But better than that is Dragon & Tiger, that's my opinion.

 

Spring Forest, never tried it but always like the name.  Nevertheless I am an engineer so I choose things that I can understand what is happening inside, maps diagrams meridiens principles philosophies and so on.  Spring Forest and other "systems" are more of a trust us, keep moving up the levels; an approach which is not for me personally, but which might be very good for others.

 

Anyway, it's good try lots of things .... but each one needs commitment, and eventually you do need to make choices of what to do, and what not to do.

 

[Junior Marcus]

Yes, rideforever, I eventually found it, and watched the documentary, very fascinating, especially the metaphor about how a tree heals; it makes perfect sense.  I am sold in Zhan Zhuang for sure, and now reading a bit more on healing sounds.

 

You are right about Spring Forest in a way;  I will just have to trust them.  Since most of the ones I am interested seems to have a more technical approach, I may just try this one for my act of blind faith since it seems to receive so many praises.

 

Thank you.

 

[lifeforce]

 

[escott]

I think Zhineng Qigong has everything you are looking for. It also goes by two other names: Wisdom Healing and Chilel.

 

What I am using is a course on Udemy. It is very good and affordable, $11 right now.

 

https://www.udemy.com/lift-qi-up-pour-qi-down/

 

I've also ordered the book, The Methods of Zhineng Qigong Science, from here for $20.

 

https://www.daohearts.com/books/

 

More free resources:

http://www.zhinengqigong.org/index.html

 

I haven't used these (yet), but Mingtong Gu has online instruction.

 

https://www.chicenter.com/Chi/Home/index.cfm

 

BTW, I'm an engineer, bought several books, tried a few things, and this is what I settled on. It's a very comprehensive system.

[Sebastian]

1 hour ago, Junior Marcus said:

You are right about Spring Forest in a way;  I will just have to trust them.  Since most of the ones I am interested seems to have a more technical approach, I may just try this one for my act of blind faith since it seems to receive so many praises.

 

Thank you.

 

 

I wouldn't say you have to trust anybody, the Master or even the SFQ system. Just trust yourself, trust that you have a Divine nature that responds to you. If you put all your faith in Masters, systems or techniques, eventually you will reach a certain level of expertise, but that approach carries an opportunity to be proven wrong. 

 

My Masters in SFQ told me...
Don't trust in us,
Don't even trust in Chunyi,
Trust in the Divine,
that connection is truly unshakable.

 

I'm also an engineer. I enjoy experimenting with various forms, movements and drawing my own conclusions. It's awesome to see how it all works. But spiritually, engineering and focus on technique can sometimes lead you to being a performer, or an expert. It can put a cap on your spiritual potential.

 

In the beginner's mind there are many possibilities, in the expert's mind there are few.

When you truly understand your relationship to the Divine,
then you understand the relationship to the true expert.
In that relationship, you are always the beginner.
The Divine is always the expert.

I don't think the Master is asking for your blind faith.  He is asking you to offer your innocent mind to something greater than yourself. He wants you to draw your own conclusions. Technique and well engineered Qigong sets can indeed have a wonderful effect on you, and the way we view it as SFQ is that they take you to the door of the Divine. Because enlightenment can never be a matter of simply following a 1-2-3 formula or just implementing a form. You need to focus on something else, let's say the essence of all Qigong systems.

 

So my advice is to create your own faith. Build it on what you know is true in your experience. Don't give it out to anybody so easily. You can try SFQ and see if it works for you, or any other system in this thread. All of them are good. But understand that any system will only take you to the door. There are many practices and systems, but only one door to Tao. Eventually you need to learn to open that door. And to let something in greater than yourself, you need to be willing to relinquish performance, engineering, the intellect... at least for a moment. And be then willing to see what happens.