Stosh Posted May 7, 2019 On 4/12/2019 at 2:38 AM, yuuichi said: To clarify, I already speak and read Chinese. But to understand Daoist texts, you need to be a native speaker at least. If that was true , then all the native speakers would all agree, on the meat of it, and when they wrote their translations, they would be similar and mutually supportive. Native speaking Chinese have indeed written translations , and they do not all agree, so being a native speaker of Chinese means precisely , nothing. Either one understands what they are reading , or they do not , be it a good translation , or be it in modern-rendered Chinese. To translate , modern folks draw on hundreds of sources , they put down on paper their findings, So there are many people from whom you can get a distilled version of the knowledge of literally hundreds of other authors ,and other very smart people. Who is the reader that they should second-guess one of these experts? Why should one expect to end up knowing More than an expert? Does the expert more accurately understand with each adherent reader? And if the number of adherents is not directly correlated with the accuracy of the rendering , then by what means would one determine which the one true representation of the data would be? 2 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
silent thunder Posted May 7, 2019 From what I've gathered here and there, it seems Classical Chinese relates to Modern Chinese, in a similar manner that Olde English relates to Modern English. I studied Olde English in University and have some comfort in it, but as much as it's similar to modern english, it's more like a foreign language for all it's subtle differences. This is exacerbated when it comes to the cultural connotations and subtle meanings built into phrases that were dependent upon the overal unspoken understandings of the people of the day who spoke it. These phrases and unspoken assumptions that were shared by the folks of that day which were reflected in the differences of their speech are where the real difficulties of deep understanding and comprehension come into play for clear interpretation in my estimation. Your mileage may vary. Either you find a translator you trust and resonate with, take up the task yourself, or resign yourself to partial information. In the end, all that was spoken about in ancient texts, is about human process. That process is ongoing and so, the actual processes and answers you seek are within your mind, form and innate nature. Explore that perhaps and let the texts lie where they are. I learn plenty on a walk through the woods. I find there are more miracles in a square meter of earth, than in all the scrolls, books and libraries of the modern world... combined. 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
silent thunder Posted May 8, 2019 Incidentally, I just recalled I know a guy who translates Greek, Latin and Sanskrit for fun, in his spare time. It's relaxing and good mental exercise simultaneously. For him anyway. There are people who translate for the joy, for the process, not profit. They can be found on the interwebs should you have something you really desire to have crossed over. Also incidentally, regarding paid translations... exchange of money does not imply quality and professional does not always imply more accurate or better, it can just mean 'i get paid for this', or 'i charge money when i do this'. 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Spotless Posted May 9, 2019 I have not pursued this but I know of one institute that is solely dedicated to translating Tibetan works. It may well be that there is an English institute or group dedicated to translating the texts you would like to have translated and perhaps you could find such a group and present them with your list. there is no question that as this relates to relatively esoteric teaching the translators would need to be very very specialized. A slight turn of a phrase can entirely change the messaging. 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
GreytoWhite Posted May 20, 2019 On 5/8/2019 at 7:39 PM, Spotless said: I have not pursued this but I know of one institute that is solely dedicated to translating Tibetan works. Would you mind providing a link? I'm curious. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Spotless Posted May 20, 2019 4 minutes ago, GreytoWhite said: Would you mind providing a link? I'm curious. They are in Berkeley CA and bought a huge building there about 20 years ago from from the previous owners - who were The Berkeley Psychic Institute which was quite large at the time and had many institutes. When I am in Berkeley this week I’ll stop by and find out their name. 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
GreytoWhite Posted May 20, 2019 1 minute ago, Spotless said: They are in Berkeley CA and bought a huge building there about 20 years ago from from the previous owners - who were The Berkeley Psychic Institute which was quite large at the time and had many institutes. When I am in Berkeley this week I’ll stop by and find out their name. Thank you! I'm aware of BDK America but I'm always looking for new resources. Got a Tibetan empowerment last January so it's of interest to me. 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
windwalker Posted June 12, 2019 On 4/11/2019 at 11:38 PM, yuuichi said: To clarify, I already speak and read Chinese. But to understand Daoist texts, you need to be a native speaker at least. Or one could already be at place described by the text, they dont need to understand what they are. Quote "Master, I have no peace of mind." "Let me hear what you know already. After hearing from you an answer to this query, I shall tell you what I can." Narada opened his book of knowledge and narrated a list of the sciences and the arts in which he was proficient. "Master, I know every science and every art in the world: metaphysics, theory of knowledge, astronomy, physics, chemistry, biology, psychology, psycho-analysis, aesthetics, ethics, sociology, political science, culture, religion, philosophy. There is nothing that I do not know, but I have no peace of mind. I do not know myself. " The great master replied, "All this that you have learned is a bundle of words, with no content inside. You have smeared your personality with a veneer of apparent knowledge, but you are quite different from that which you have gathered on your personality. The shirt is not the person and, therefore, your learning is not what you are." https://www.swami-krishnananda.org/sadh/sadh_01.html 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Rocky Lionmouth Posted June 21, 2019 (edited) I mean for how long had Narada been seeing the great master anyway? That piece of conversation they had there did not occur a moment too soon. Poor Narada though, what a blockhead, his master had to split his log to unify him. But his master made a mistake, he steered Narada right into the trap of thinking of who is who and persons and shirts, he’ll hit a decent sized wall with his log pretty soon again. Edited June 21, 2019 by Rocky Lionmouth Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mjjbecker Posted July 1, 2019 https://www.thedaobums.com/topic/49349-help-needed-to-translate-alchemy-book/?do=findComment&comment=891527 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Limahong Posted July 1, 2019 On 4/10/2019 at 1:06 AM, windwalker said: "Don't read them, they're often wrong they will make you crazy. The best way to reach understanding is through practice" Hi windwalker, Texts belong to others... practice - yours alone? On 4/10/2019 at 1:06 AM, windwalker said: Often a meaning will change as ones understanding deepens through experience. Every moment in my life changes - life is to be lived as a living/learning experience. The more I know ~ the more I realize how little I know. - Anand Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Limahong Posted July 1, 2019 On 4/12/2019 at 2:38 PM, yuuichi said: But to understand Daoist texts, you need to be a native speaker at least. Hi yuuichi, To understand Taoist texts ~ I have to be native to/with myself. How much do I know myself? - Anand Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Limahong Posted July 1, 2019 On 4/12/2019 at 3:20 PM, Taoist Texts said: I understand those texts for a living, being not native. Hi Taoist Texts, Living ~ as in making a living... or living life? Native ~ as a human being? - Anand Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Limahong Posted July 1, 2019 On 4/12/2019 at 8:34 PM, dawei said: paywall Hi dawei, Walls are created to make me pay? A paywall is a method of restricting access to content via a paid subscription. - Wikipedia Are there paywall(s) at TDB? - Anand Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Limahong Posted July 1, 2019 On 4/12/2019 at 4:18 PM, Mudfoot said: I know I found stuff while searching Google Scholar, can't remember where I ended up though. Hi Mudfoot, I did that once and I ended up in the middle of nowhere ~ a place far more removed from where I had started. - Anand Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Limahong Posted July 1, 2019 (edited) Deleted - duplication. Edited July 1, 2019 by Limahong Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Limahong Posted July 1, 2019 (edited) Deleted - duplication Edited July 1, 2019 by Limahong Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Limahong Posted July 1, 2019 On 4/12/2019 at 4:32 PM, GSmaster said: And any words are just words, it is not a good way to record anything related to esoteric / internal knowledge. Hi GSmaster, Spot on ~ not a good way. - Anand Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Limahong Posted July 1, 2019 On 4/18/2019 at 2:20 AM, zerostao said: some interesting teachings are never written down at all , even in Chinese-- Hi zerotao, Yes ~ one to one... by mouth... with TRUST... Cheers! - Anand 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Limahong Posted July 1, 2019 On 5/6/2019 at 3:09 AM, Wayfarer said: You could also find translators on Fiverr that would do it for less but I would like to see the docs anyway Hi Wayfarer, Docs ~ as in documents or doctors? I have Fever... - Anand Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Limahong Posted July 1, 2019 On 5/6/2019 at 4:37 AM, yuuichi said: The cheapest I found was 500 characters for 5 dollars. Which would mean about 3,000 dollars for 300,000 characters. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Limahong Posted July 1, 2019 On 5/7/2019 at 3:31 PM, Walker said: This person would have to understand grammar from multiple dynastic periods, hundreds of obscure characters, and have the ability to "read between the lines," which is only possible for a very learned person who likely has been taught by Daoists directly. Then this person has to be able to put that into legible English for you! Hi Walker, Chinese grammar... Read between the lines... Legible English... On 5/7/2019 at 3:31 PM, Walker said: If anybody tells you s/he can render Daoist writings (or anything in any foreign language, really) into English for you for $0.01 a character, either you've found a saint with a lot of spare time, or somebody with a wall in Mexico to sell you! Sell me for what... as a cockroach? - Anand Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Limahong Posted July 1, 2019 On 5/7/2019 at 8:07 PM, Stosh said: If that was true... they would be similar and mutually supportive. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Limahong Posted July 1, 2019 On 5/7/2019 at 10:57 PM, silent thunder said: In the end, all that was spoken about in ancient texts, is about human process. That process is ongoing and so, the actual processes and answers you seek are within your mind, form and innate nature. Explore that perhaps and let the texts lie where they are. Hi Creighton, As always ~ you are a human being - processing within yourself... Good night. - Anand Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Stosh Posted July 1, 2019 1 hour ago, Limahong said: Not Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
