To those with the ability to see invisible beings that surround us

[J Warg]

@Starjumper mentioned the book The Magus of Strovolos somewhere in this forum; I happened to find it in the internet so I started reading it and I’m really enjoying it (thanks )

 

The “magus” mentions beings like elementals; I have also read about these creatures in other books / articles under the names of thought forms, larvae, etc.

 

In the book Daskalos says:

 

“We give birth to such elementals with our thoughts and sentiments. Once 'projected' they have an existence of their own and can affect those around us that 'vibrate' on the same frequency”

 

So I'd like to ask those with the ability to see these (and others) invisible beings that supposedly surround us on a daily basis:

 

Are these beings really out there interfering in our lives? How is that even possible? Do we human beings really create beings with an independent existence that easily? Are they somehow intelligent beings? Do they have feelings?

 

I’d be more interested in reading about your experiences, not the theory of this topic.

[rideforever]

Well there are animals and plants to begin with.   What do they represent ?   And the celestial objects.
And if you look into the eyes of a "person" you will see that what is inside is not necessarily the same from one to the other.
And that's before you even get in to "what's out there".

[Jeff]

2 hours ago, J Warg said:

@Starjumper mentioned the book The Magus of Strovolos somewhere in this forum; I happened to find it in the internet so I started reading it and I’m really enjoying it (thanks )

 

The “magus” mentions beings like elementals; I have also read about these creatures in other books / articles under the names of thought forms, larvae, etc.

 

In the book Daskalos says:

 

“We give birth to such elementals with our thoughts and sentiments. Once 'projected' they have an existence of their own and can affect those around us that 'vibrate' on the same frequency”

 

So I'd like to ask those with the ability to see these (and others) invisible beings that supposedly surround us on a daily basis:

 

Are these beings really out there interfering in our lives? How is that even possible? Do we human beings really create beings with an independent existence that easily? Are they somehow intelligent beings? Do they have feelings?

 

I’d be more interested in reading about your experiences, not the theory of this topic.

 

I have met many such beings. There are many different types of energy/light beings and it is definitely not as simple as humans giving birth to such beings (but that is possible). Specifically with elementals, I have interacted with three of them. One was like a giant puppy that just wanted someone to notice and play with him. Another had been chained and tortured hundreds of years ago as a power source for more negative magic. It was kind of crazy like a storm and needed to be released. The third was in the mountains and more like an old mountain man that didn’t really move and just radiated energy that destabilized things.

 

Higher beings and negative beings are much different.

[Starjumper]

I wouldn't say interfering is the right word, maybe more like influencing but usually very slight.  A lot of the time the entities are weak when created by 'accident' and they will dissipate, however if someone with psychic power works on it with dedication and strong intent then they can create an entity that can have a lot of staying power and even be heard and seen by those that don't have psychic sight or hearing.

 

There are different kinds of entities, some that are created with intent and power can be independent, but there is another kind, where you create it and wear it like a mask.  This is useful in some self defense situations , if you use it at just the right instant it can work even on someone who is not psychic.  I can't say what the method is here but I have done it some, and I suppose no one here can guess what my entity/mask is  = ) although one shaman around here saw it even when I wasn't focussing on it.

 

It looks something like this, except right when the attacker has committed and gets his split second of tunnel vision he gets quite impressionable, at which point it shows its teeth and makes a little snarling sound.  Works like magic ... or something.

 

Luckily the kids around here don't have that kind of power.

 

Edited April 12, 2019 by Starjumper

[Starjumper]

1 hour ago, GSmaster said:

Ha, do you know the story of evil shaman, who was starving himself to death while constantly thinking about food / starving a group of people to death while showing them delicios food and smells constantly. In the end result is same, creation of omnipotent parasite with endless desire to eat.

 

That could be later taken out and injected into a victim.

 

No, I have not heard of that one, but wow, that's heavy duty stuff there.  Tsk, tsk, so much evil, luckily it's more attracted to its own kind.

[Spotless]

5 hours ago, J Warg said:

@Starjumper mentioned the book The Magus of Strovolos somewhere in this forum; I happened to find it in the internet so I started reading it and I’m really enjoying it (thanks )

 

The “magus” mentions beings like elementals; I have also read about these creatures in other books / articles under the names of thought forms, larvae, etc.

 

In the book Daskalos says:

 

“We give birth to such elementals with our thoughts and sentiments. Once 'projected' they have an existence of their own and can affect those around us that 'vibrate' on the same frequency”

 

So I'd like to ask those with the ability to see these (and others) invisible beings that supposedly surround us on a daily basis:

 

Are these beings really out there interfering in our lives? How is that even possible? Do we human beings really create beings with an independent existence that easily? Are they somehow intelligent beings? Do they have feelings?

 

I’d be more interested in reading about your experiences, not the theory of this topic.

This is a reference to a relatively harmless small group that enjoys what excites you. They do not have intention to harm and have little to work with - they are very simple and automated.

 

However they can cause great mischief through no fault or malign intent of their own - nor are they “negative beings” or stuck beings.

 

They enjoy what excites you and act to foster that excitement.

 

If one is mired in mind loops of hate or highly positioned politics or religion or lust or raging passions - they will help to facilitate all aspects in you that help to promote inducing the tipping points to the rising up of those often out of control aspects of dissipation in you.

 

They can do this in helping you to eat or drink poorly, by resonating to vibrations that irritate or stimulate,

by blocking pathways or rerouting as best they can.

 

They do not do this diabolically but by acclimating to your addictions and simply coming to mechanically “understand” the trigger points of your automation and trance properties. Nearly all humans are asleep entirely and don’t take a great Consciousness to find the automated habituations.

 

As these wider swings subside - these little “entities” subside. 

 

 

Edited April 12, 2019 by Spotless

[J Warg]

Hello all and thank you for your comments 

 

20 hours ago, GSmaster said:

Its called larva, yes they exist. .

 

Same way your physical body is a host to bacteria, viruses, fungi, worms, and parasites.

 

Read my posts, I have talked about it somewhere

 

I haven't found your posts on this topic yet but I'll keep on reading you, very informative indeed.

[J Warg]

Hi Starjumper,

 

18 hours ago, Starjumper said:

I wouldn't say interfering is the right word, maybe more like influencing but usually very slight.  A lot of the time the entities are weak when created by 'accident' and they will dissipate, however if someone with psychic power works on it with dedication and strong intent then they can create an entity that can have a lot of staying power and even be heard and seen by those that don't have psychic sight or hearing.

 

 

 

That's scary... Lucky there are not many people that powerfull out there so dedicated to create those harmfull beings, right? I'm more concerned about those little (or not so little, I don't know!) creatures that one can create out of our own hates, lust, desires... who feed on our bad energies and influence us in the wrong way just to keep on feeding on us.

 

How can we counteract their power?

[vonkrankenhaus]

Perhaps conversely, I'd like to ask those with the ability to see these (and others) visible beings that supposedly surround us on a daily basis:

 

Are these beings really out there interfering in our lives? How is that even possible? Do we human beings really create beings with an independent existence that easily? Are they somehow intelligent beings? Do they have feelings?

 

How can we counteract their power?

 

The answers may be in the reasons for the questions, either way.

 

 

 

 

-VonKrankenhaus

[J Warg]

Hi David,

 

18 hours ago, Starjumper said:

I wouldn't say interfering is the right word, maybe more like influencing but usually very slight.  A lot of the time the entities are weak when created by 'accident' and they will dissipate, however if someone with psychic power works on it with dedication and strong intent then they can create an entity that can have a lot of staying power and even be heard and seen by those that don't have psychic sight or hearing.

 

 

 

Thank you for your explanation, it really helps to clarify the mechanics of those beings.

 

In the book it's also explained that these larvas not only affect / influence us but also the people around us... For example, if I feel envious towards a friend of mine, these larvas will try to increase my envy (to keep on feeding on me) and will harm my friend somehow ... 

 

How comes that we can harm the people around us without us knowing it? 

Edited April 13, 2019 by J Warg
typos

[J Warg]

13 minutes ago, vonkrankenhaus said:

Perhaps conversely, I'd like to ask those with the ability to see these (and others) visible beings that supposedly surround us on a daily basis:

 

Are these beings really out there interfering in our lives? How is that even possible? Do we human beings really create beings with an independent existence that easily? Are they somehow intelligent beings? Do they have feelings?

 

How can we counteract their power?

 

The answers may be in the reasons for the questions, either way.

 

 

 

 

-VonKrankenhaus

 

Hi @VonKrankenhaus,

 

Sorry, but I don't get what you mean. And this happens to me most of the time I read you on this forum, perhaps for the little time dedicated to the edition of your posts, most of the time looks chaotic...

 

In this case, are you quoting me? Are you repeating deliberately my posts?

 

I'm sorry but I'm this slow 

[Fa Xin]

Think about a powerful drive to some addictive behavior you have. It feels like something influencing you, right? It can harm others around you too? Would you call it a spirit that you made? Hmmm. Maybe. 

 

When I read that part of the book, my impression was daskalos was trying to make his students aware that their thoughts are powerful and can manifest in the real world. But the idea that we are generating sentient beings on a regular basis is just not my experience. 

[Starjumper]

4 hours ago, J Warg said:

Thank you for your explanation, it really helps to clarify the mechanics of those beings.

 

In the book it's also explained that these larvas not only affect / influence us but also the people around us... For example, if I feel envious towards a friend of mine, these larvas will try to increase my envy (to keep on feeding on me) and will harm my friend somehow ... 

 

In this kind of situation we can get into a problem with definitions, and that problem causes a lot of holy wars on internet forums.  I don't expect one of those here though.

 

It has been a long time since I read The Magus of Strovolos so I'm not sure what they say about it in there.  To me an entity means something that has an independent existence as an actual being of some kind, with spirit and emotions; in which case the psychic 'mask' that I made may not really qualify as an entity ... unless it becomes independent and gets sassy ... hmm, maybe that's where all the sass comes from  

 

Those other things that people create by accident I think of more like thought forms.  I never heard of larva so I have no idea what that is supposed to mean.

 

Quote

 

How comes that we can harm the people around us without us knowing it? 

 

Concerning the lower power 'accidental' stuff, the thought forms.  It seems more like a transfer between people on a psychic or energy level.  People absorb energy (chi) from others all the time and it will influence them even when they are not aware of it.  One energy field can not block another energy field, they flow into each other effortlessly, which is why it's fun to be a hermit.  It could also partly be the result of unconscious face reading of subtle emotional markers, which everyone can do amazingly well although many are not so aware of it.  Face reading is a fun art to try out.  I think the same kinds of thing happen on a psychic level but I don't know that much about the psychic stuff.  I mean, I couldn't say how it works, but I found that it's not safe for some people if I get pissed off at them even when I don't like being pissed at them.

 

Also, you can call me Steve 

Edited April 13, 2019 by Starjumper

[vonkrankenhaus]

9 hours ago, J Warg said:

Sorry, but I don't get what you mean. And this happens to me most of the time I read you on this forum, perhaps for the little time dedicated to the edition of your posts, most of the time looks chaotic...

 

I'm sorry.

 

Maybe I read too much 莊子 and too much about 周敦頤.

 

Maybe I don't have good enough respect for modern ghosts, ideas, and issues, but I do try to study them because I like people everywhere.

 

I did not mean to confuse you or offend you in any way.

 

 

 

 

 

-VonKrankenhaus

[Patrick Brown]

I'd be careful with all this voodoo!

 

Perhaps 'thought forms' exist as suggested by C.W. Leadbeater of Theosophy fame? If a thought, idea or meme can have a physical reality/body then perhaps it can gain energy and momentum and perhaps even infect and multiply? It seems to me that more basic ideas have a strong emotional content whereas lofty ideas are more abstract with only the faintest of emotion, think faeries! 

 

[Nungali]

On 12/04/2019 at 8:13 PM, J Warg said:

@Starjumper mentioned the book The Magus of Strovolos somewhere in this forum; I happened to find it in the internet so I started reading it and I’m really enjoying it (thanks )

 

The “magus” mentions beings like elementals; I have also read about these creatures in other books / articles under the names of thought forms, larvae, etc.

 

In the book Daskalos says:

 

“We give birth to such elementals with our thoughts and sentiments. Once 'projected' they have an existence of their own and can affect those around us that 'vibrate' on the same frequency”

 

So I'd like to ask those with the ability to see these (and others) invisible beings that supposedly surround us on a daily basis:

 

Are these beings really out there

 

"Really' ?   Well, they are 'out there' , depending on what you really mean by really 

 

Or what you consider 'reality'

 

here ya go ;

 

 

http://www.harpur.org/PJCHdaimonicreality.htm

 

 

On 12/04/2019 at 8:13 PM, J Warg said:

 

 

interfering in our lives?

 

Errrmmm ....   'interfering'   ... maybe , perhaps even 'helping'  ?

 

Depends on the type of being  ..... bad croca !

 

Good dog !

 

 

 

 

 

On 12/04/2019 at 8:13 PM, J Warg said:

 

 

How is that even possible?

 

http://www.harpur.org/PJCHdaimonicreality.htm

 

https://www.searchwithin.org/download/presence_spirits.pdf

 

Be careful what you open, now !

 

 

 

 

On 12/04/2019 at 8:13 PM, J Warg said:

 

Do we human beings really create beings with an independent existence that easily?

 

If 'inadvertent' , it seems easy. If conscious, NOT that easy.  Either way, getting control of it  ... not that easy . After a lot of study and practice , simple as riding a bike ( that is if you already know how to ride one )

 

 

On 12/04/2019 at 8:13 PM, J Warg said:

 

 

Are they somehow intelligent beings?

 

The ones related to intelligence are.

 

On 12/04/2019 at 8:13 PM, J Warg said:

Do they have feelings?

 

Yes, but in a range specific to them.

 

On 12/04/2019 at 8:13 PM, J Warg said:

 

I’d be more interested in reading about your experiences, not the theory of this topic.

 

Its a huge subject and I have a lot of experience , sometimes, daily, so what do I write about ? probably better if you ask specific questions about what you want to know .

 

For the moment, I will leave  you with some practical advice;

 

6. Be not hasty to condemn others; how knowest thou that in their place, thou couldest have resisted the temptation? And even were it so, why shouldst thou despise one who is weaker than thyself?

 

7. Thou therefore who desirest Magical Gifts, be sure that thy soul is firm and steadfast; for it is by flattering thy weaknesses that the Weak Ones will gain power over thee. Humble thyself before thy Self, yet fear neither man not spirit. Fear is failure, and the forerunner of failure: and courage is the beginning of virtue.

 

8. Therefore fear not the Spirits, but be firm and courteous with them; for thou hast no right to despise or revile them; and this too may lead thee astray. Command and banish them, curse them by the Great Names if need be; but neither mock nor revile them, for so assuredly wilt thou be lead into error.

 

...

 

16. To obtain Magical Power, learn to control thought; admit only those ideas that are in harmony with the end desired, and not every stray and contradictory Idea that presents itself.

 

17. Fixed thought is a means to an end. Therefore pay attention to the power of silent thought and meditation. The material act is but the outward expression of thy thought, and therefore hath it been said that “the thought of foolishness is sin.” Thought is the commencement of action, and if a chance thought can produce much effect, what cannot fixed thought do?

 

...

 

19. Be thou therefore prompt and active as the Sylphs, but avoid frivolity and caprice; be energetic and strong like the Salamanders, but avoid irritability and ferocity; be flexible and attentive to images like the Undines, but avoid idleness and changeability; be laborious and patient like the Gnomes, but avoid grossness and avarice.

 

20. So shalt thou gradually develop the powers of thy soul, and fit thyself to command the Spirits of the elements. For wert thou to summon the Gnomes to pander to thine avarice, thou wouldst no longer command them, but they would command thee. Wouldst thou abuse the pure beings of the woods and mountains to fill thy coffers and satisfy thy hunger of Gold? Wouldst thou debase the Spirits of Living Fire to serve thy wrath and hatred? Wouldst thou violate the purity of the Souls of the Waters to pander to thy lust of debauchery? Wouldst thou force the Spirits of the Evening Breeze to minister to thy folly and caprice? Know that with such desires thou canst but attract the Weak, not the Strong, and in that case the Weak will have power over thee.

 

[Nungali]

On 12/04/2019 at 11:21 PM, GSmaster said:

 

Ha, do you know the story of evil shaman, who was starving himself to death while constantly thinking about food / starving a group of people to death while showing them delicios food and smells constantly. In the end result is same, creation of omnipotent parasite with endless desire to eat.

 

That could be later taken out and injected into a victim.

 

Actually as long as parasites dont get critical mass they are easy to deal, but eventually, if taken years of well feeding, they can grow to an extent being able to completely dominate human being, taking all their energy and willpower and intent, and human is left powerless / hopeless in despair.

 

The larvae and parasites mentioned are but one TYPE ... yes, like a bacteria.

 

There are other types, the best way to deal with those are as one would do deal with a dog , a pet, stray or guard dog.

 

Ummmm ... I will qualify that ...   as one would deal with a dog ... that ONE  being someone who understands how to deal with a dog .

 

( I had 'viscous'  attack guard dog bull mastiff  that I wasnt supposed to go near, rolling around on his back with tongue  hanging out gettin a belly scratch , owner returned and 'What the hell have you done yo to my dog !     "

 

    ) 

[Aetherous]

On 4/12/2019 at 6:13 AM, J Warg said:

The “magus” mentions beings like elementals; I have also read about these creatures in other books / articles under the names of thought forms, larvae, etc.

 

In the book Daskalos says:

 

“We give birth to such elementals with our thoughts and sentiments. Once 'projected' they have an existence of their own and can affect those around us that 'vibrate' on the same frequency”

 

It seems like he's using the term elemental in a unique way. Here's the typical understanding of an "elemental": https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Elemental

 

As far as I know, they're not created by human beings at all. Another name would be used for what people create, such as: thought form, tulpa, double, etc. But elementals are said to be spirits/creatures of the four elements.

I don't have experience with them.

 

...

 

Also, in terms of anyone I personally know who sees things...they mostly either speak of ghosts, or their guides, and auras. Maybe they're full of shit and are just making up having the ability to see these things...perhaps with true sight, a person would be aware of these other classes of beings like elementals. I don't know!

Edited April 13, 2019 by Aetherous

[Nungali]

16 hours ago, J Warg said:

Hi Starjumper,

 

 

That's scary... Lucky there are not many people that powerfull out there so dedicated to create those harmfull beings, right? I'm more concerned about those little (or not so little, I don't know!) creatures that one can create out of our own hates, lust, desires... who feed on our bad energies and influence us in the wrong way just to keep on feeding on us.

 

How can we counteract their power?

 

Do the rite and scrape em off with a consecrated copper blade.  They tend to congregate around the back of head and neck and down the spine .  For THAT type.

 

Also note the passage above about how these positive energies can be turned negative , ie. ;

 

For wert thou to summon the Gnomes to pander to thine avarice, thou wouldst no longer command them, but they would command thee. Wouldst thou abuse the pure beings of the woods and mountains to fill thy coffers and satisfy thy hunger of Gold? Wouldst thou debase the Spirits of Living Fire to serve thy wrath and hatred? Wouldst thou violate the purity of the Souls of the Waters to pander to thy lust of debauchery? Wouldst thou force the Spirits of the Evening Breeze to minister to thy folly and caprice? Know that with such desires thou canst but attract the Weak, not the Strong, and in that case the Weak will have power over thee.

 

also by keeping the forces in balance  ( these quotes are from 'The Book of the Balance' aka  'How to develop the powers of your soul' GD initiatory document .).

 

1. Equilibrium is the basis of the Work. If thou thyself hast not a sure foundation, whereon wilt thou stand to direct the forces of Nature?

 

 

10. Worship and neglect not, the physical body which is thy temporary connection with the outer and material world. Therefore let thy mental Equilibrium be above disturbance by material events; strengthen and control the animal passions, discipline the emotions and the reason, nourish the Higher Aspiration

 

12. Remember that unbalanced force is evil; that unbalanced severity is but cruelty and oppression; but that also unbalanced mercy is but weakness which would allow and abet Evil. Act passionately; think rationally; be Thyself.

 

Basically we can counteract their power by firstly being aware of these process, by understanding how they work and their dynamics and finally then by being able to transform them, and 'lift them up' as co-partners in our evolutions .

 

Some of the very base primeval and raw energies might need other approaches .

 

The altar of evocation contains the 'sweet and refreshing water' and the 'perfumes' ... on one side .

 

But the sword, scourge, fire and 'box of punishmen't on the other . 

 

Again :

 

12. Remember that unbalanced force is evil; that unbalanced severity is but cruelty and oppression; but that also unbalanced mercy is but weakness which would allow and abet Evil.

 

 

 

 

[Nungali]

16 hours ago, J Warg said:

Hi David,

 

 

Thank you for your explanation, it really helps to clarify the mechanics of those beings.

 

In the book it's also explained that these larvas not only affect / influence us but also the people around us... For example, if I feel envious towards a friend of mine, these larvas will try to increase my envy (to keep on feeding on me) and will harm my friend somehow ... 

 

How comes that we can harm the people around us without us knowing it? 

 

Oh goodness !  We harm so  many people and a myriad of beings around us without ever knowing it all the time !

 

Even the Jains do , they where masks to stop breathing in and killing little insects, little brooms to brush away the ground before they walk  .. still they leave a trail of destruction behind them .

 

I tend to ignore that. its better, I think to  focus on preventing what we can prevent, and minimise what we are consciously aware of ;

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Nungali]

10 hours ago, GSmaster said:

 

Hey Steve,

 

Larva is a nonintelligent astral being born out of obsessive thought of desires the only goal of which is to feed oneself.

 

 

"  Indeed !

 

Wouldst thou abuse the pure beings of the woods and mountains to fill thy coffers and satisfy thy hunger of Gold? Wouldst thou debase the Spirits of Living Fire to serve thy wrath and hatred? Wouldst thou violate the purity of the Souls of the Waters to pander to thy lust of debauchery? Wouldst thou force the Spirits of the Evening Breeze to minister to thy folly and caprice? Know that with such desires thou canst but attract the Weak, not the Strong, and in that case the Weak will have power over thee.

" 

[Nungali]

5 hours ago, Patrick Brown said:

I'd be careful with all this voodoo!

 

Perhaps 'thought forms' exist as suggested by C.W. Leadbeater of Theosophy fame? If a thought, idea or meme can have a physical reality/body then perhaps it can gain energy and momentum and perhaps even infect and multiply? It seems to me that more basic ideas have a strong emotional content whereas lofty ideas are more abstract with only the faintest of emotion, think faeries! 

 

 

 

From my link above  re

 

http://www.theisticpsychology.org/books/w.vandusen/presence_spirits.htm

 

and the parts about  'hallucinations of a good or bad order'

 

" In my dialogues with patients I learned of two orders of experience, borrowing from the voices themselves, called the higher and the lower order. Lower order voices are as though one is dealing with drunken bums at a bar who like to tease and torment just for the fun of it. They will suggest lewd acts and then scold the patient for considering them. They find a weak point of conscience and work on it interminably. For instance one man heard voices teasing him for three years over a ten-cent debt he had already paid. They call the patient every conceivable name, suggest every lewd act, steal memories or ideas right out of consciousness, threaten death, and work on the patient's credibility in every way. For instance they will brag that they will produce some disaster on the morrow and then claim honor for one in the daily paper. They suggest foolish acts (such as: Raise your right hand in the air and stay that way) and tease if he does it and threaten him if he doesn't. The lower order can work for a long time to possess some part of the patient's body. Several worked on the ear and the patient seemed to grow deafer. One voice worked two years to capture a patient's eye which visibly went out of alignment. Many patients have heard loud and clear voices plotting their death for weeks on end, an apparently nerve-wracking experience. One patient saw a noose around his neck which tied to "I don't know what" while voices plotted his death by hanging. They threaten pain and can cause felt pain as a way of enforcing their power. The most devastating experience of all is to be shouted at constantly by dozens of voices. When this occurred the patient had to be sedated. The vocabulary and range of ideas of the lower order is limited, but they have a persistent will to destroy. They invade every nook and cranny of privacy, work on every weakness and credibility, claim awesome powers, lie, make promises and then undermine the patient's will. They never have a personal identity though they accept most names or identities given them. They either conceal or have no awareness of personal memories. Though they claim to be separate identities they will reveal no detail that might help to trace them as separate individuals. Their voice quality can change or shift, leaving the patient quite confused as to who might be speaking. When identified as some friend known to the patient they can assume this voice quality perfectly. For convenience many patients call them by nick-names, such as "Fred," The Doctor," or "The Old Timer." I've heard it said by the higher order that the purpose of the lower order is to illuminate all of the person's weaknesses. They do that admirably and with infinite patience. To make matters worse they hold out promises to patients and even give helpful sounding advice only to catch the patient in some weakness. Even with the patient's help I found the lower order difficult to relate to because of their disdain for me as well as the patient.

" The limited vocabulary and range of ideas of the lower order is striking. A few ideas can be repeated endlessly. One voice just said "hey" for months while the patient tried to figure out what "hey" or "hay" was meant. Even when I was supposedly speaking to an engineer that a woman heard, the engineer was unable to do any more arithmetic than simple sums and multiplication the woman had memorized. The lower order seems incapable of sequential reasoning. Though they often claim to be in some distant city they cannot report more than the patient sees, hears, or remembers. They seem imprisoned in the lowest level of the patient's mind, giving no real evidence of a personal world or any higher order thinking or experiencing.

" All of the lower order are irreligious or anti-religious. Some actively interfered with the patients' religious practices. Most considered them to be ordinary living people, though once they appeared as conventional devils and referred to themselves as demons. In a few instances they referred to themselves as from hell. Occasionally they would speak through the patient so that the patient's voice and speech would be directly those of the voices. Sometimes they acted through the patient. One of my female patients was found going out the hospital gate arguing loudly with her male voice that she didn't want to leave, but he was insisting. Like many, this particular hallucination claimed to be Jesus Christ, but his bragging and argumentativeness rather gave him away as of the lower order. Sometimes the lower order is embedded in physical concerns, such as a lady who was tormented by "experimenters" painfully treating her joints to prevent arthritis. She held out hope they were helping her, though it was apparent to any onlooker they had all but destroyed her life as a free and intelligent person.

" In direct contrast stands the rarer higher order hallucinations. In quantity they make up perhaps a fifth or less of the patients' experiences. The contrast may be illustrated by the experience of one man. He had heard the lower order arguing a long while how they would murder him. He also had a light come to him at night like the sun. He knew it was a different order because the light respected his freedom and would withdraw if it frightened him. In contrast, the lower order worked against his will and would attack if it could see fear in him. This rarer higher order seldom speaks, whereas the lower order can talk endlessly. The higher order is much more likely to be symbolic, religious, supportive, genuinely instructive, and communicate directly with the inner feelings of the patient. I've learned to help the patient approach the higher order because of its great power to broaden the individual's values. When the man was encouraged to approach his friendly sun he entered a world of powerful numinous experiences, in some ways more frightening than the murderers who plotted his death. In one scene he found himself at the bottom of a long corridor with doors at the end behind which raged the powers of hell. He was about to let out these powers when a very powerful and impressive Christ-like figure appeared and by direct mind-to-mind communication counseled him to leave the doors closed and follow him into other experiences which were therapeutic to him. In another instance the higher order appeared to a man as a lovely woman who entertained him while showing him thousands of symbols. Though the patient was a high-school educated gas-pipe fitter, his female vision showed a knowledge of religion and myth far beyond the patient's comprehension. At the end of a very rich dialogue with her (the patient reporting her symbols and responses) the patient asked for just a clue as to what she and I were talking about. Another example is that of a Negro who gave up being useful and lived as a drunken thief. In his weeks of hallucinations the higher order carefully instructed him on the trials of all minority groups and left him with the feeling he would like to do something for minorities.

" In general the higher order is richer than the patient's normal experience, respectful of his freedom, helpful, instructive, supportive, highly symbolic and religious. It looks most like Carl Jung's archetypes, whereas the lower order looks like Freud's id. In contrast to the lower order, it thinks in something like universal ideas in ways that are richer and more complex than the patient's own mode of thought. It can be very powerful emotionally and carry with it an almost inexpressible ring of truth. The higher order tends to enlarge a patient's values, something like a very wise and considerate instructor. Some patients experience both the higher and lower orders at various times and feel caught between a private heaven and hell. Many only know the attacks of the lower order. The higher order claims power over the lower order and indeed shows it at times, but not enough to give peace of mind to most patients. The higher order itself has indicated that the usefulness of the lower order is to illustrate and make conscious the patients' weaknesses and faults.

 

 

 

 

 

 

[J Warg]

19 hours ago, Starjumper said:

It has been a long time since I read The Magus of Strovolos so I'm not sure what they say about it in there.  To me an entity means something that has an independent existence as an actual being of some kind, with spirit and emotions; in which case the psychic 'mask' that I made may not really qualify as an entity ... unless it becomes independent and gets sassy ... hmm, maybe that's where all the sass comes from  

 

Those other things that people create by accident I think of more like thought forms.  I never heard of larva so I have no idea what that is supposed to mean.

 

Hello Steve,

 

That's exactly what I thought about these larvas whenever a read about them (as thought forms, “thought clouds” around a person), but many OBE authors mention encounters with these ‘creatures’ in their books… More in line with @GSmaster when he says:

 

 

18 hours ago, GSmaster said:

Larva is a nonintelligent astral being born out of obsessive thought of desires the only goal of which is to feed oneself.

[J Warg]

20 hours ago, Fa Xin said:

When I read that part of the book, my impression was daskalos was trying to make his students aware that their thoughts are powerful and can manifest in the real world. But the idea that we are generating sentient beings on a regular basis is just not my experience. 

 

Hi Fa Xin,

 

I find Daskalos' teachings quite clear and straightforward in this book, and definately he definitely does not speak figuratively.

 

But what interests me is that this is not your experience. 

 

So why some psychics-clairvoyants see things differently?

 

Perhaps EVERYTHING out there is subjective... always dependent on the viewer ... never concrete? 

[J Warg]

1 hour ago, GSmaster said:

I feel like the author whom you quoted in original post, does not know what he is talking about / did not have any education in that field, which is why he tries to make up his own terms for the things that have been already known for ages.

 

Yeah, well, about this, I think he belongs to some Western school of occultism, he has his own vocabulary. For astral projection or OBE he calls it exomatosis.

 

I just found this:

 

http://www.paulkiritsis.net/_blog/Down_The_Rabbit_Hole/post/the-magus-of-strovolos-glossary-of-terms