How to become less blind

[J Warg]

On 22/4/2019 at 4:42 PM, Pilgrim said:

Because their mission is fulfilled and learning can be received by those they left behind. I do not mean SRF Just to be clear that is now a church.

 

So Yogananda's missions was to come to the West and let his master's teachings be transformed, adulterated into an useless cult?

 

If Kriya Yoga is a set of purifying techniques ... if Shibendu Lahiri is a good Kriya Yoga teacher, how comes that he is still so easily angered? Doesn't Kriya Yoga help the practitioner with the control of their passions?

[J Warg]

On 22/4/2019 at 3:44 PM, Starjumper said:

For example Sai Baba would some times appear to people as Jesus, because they believed in Jesus

 

Sai Baba? The one who could materialise rolex watches and other jewellery out of the air? The one who was accused of abusing children and male adults with the excuse of massaging their genitals?

[Starjumper]

33 minutes ago, J Warg said:

 

Sai Baba? The one who could materialise rolex watches and other jewellery out of the air? The one who was accused of abusing children and male adults with the excuse of massaging their genitals?

 

Yes that's the one.

[Starjumper]

42 minutes ago, J Warg said:

So Yogananda's missions was to come to the West and let his master's teachings be transformed, adulterated into an useless cult?

 

Maybe they weren't so aware of what the West was like?

 

42 minutes ago, J Warg said:

If Kriya Yoga is a set of purifying techniques ... if Shibendu Lahiri is a good Kriya Yoga teacher, how comes that he is still so easily angered? Doesn't Kriya Yoga help the practitioner with the control of their passions?

 

Some realized people prefer to not hide their passions when faced with a huge crowd of (epithet deleted) but rather let it all out, for fun.

[Pilgrim]

1 hour ago, J Warg said:

So Yogananda's missions was to come to the West and let his master's teachings be transformed, adulterated into an useless cult?

Yes and no. He modified the practices for the people and the times.

 

Paramahamsa Hariharananda modified them also. 

 

Each teacher does does based on their realization.

 

The 1920’s are close to 100 years  ago now I am certain things were different when the master was present. 

 

Still SRF serves a purpose there are many worldwide who need that particular approach to spirituality. Those that do not  go elsewhere and learn Kriya. 

 

Lesson here: Even bad advertisement is better than no advertisement. Let seekers find and go to what calls to them a few missteps along the way are good for people too.

 

1 hour ago, J Warg said:

If Kriya Yoga is a set of purifying techniques ... if Shibendu Lahiri is a good Kriya Yoga teacher, how comes that he is still so easily angered? Doesn't Kriya Yoga help the practitioner with the control of their passions?

I think people have the wrong idea of what purification is.

 

Purification can be exceedingly painful emotionally, mentally and as you change from it so too changes your world view.

 

Kriya also accelerates your Karma and that of those around you by it’s purifying effects. This is why there are controlled environments like ashrams. This is also why as a householder practice swift advancement can be made but you have to keep your act together also.

 

Shibendu is Shibendu he is not a phony wearing white robes and sporting a Moses look like some frauds do.

 

The best way to describe him are with the following words:

 

Mercurial 

Boisterous 

Joyfull

Spontaneous 

Sincere in one to one teachings.

 

Different teachers have different personalities and what you get in a crowd is different than 1 on 1.

 

Please don’t think I did not know what I asked had the potential to piss him off, I knew it might and did so anyway. We had some big egos in that room even bigger than mine. It was a nice shake up.

 

Shibendu was a very good teacher to me in private but most who go to him are not ready so they get a version of him that is worn out with people.

 

If you ever find a perfect teacher RUN!!!!don’t walk run. They all have their own distinct personality, they all are communicating through their unique ego tool so others can get what they have to give. 

 

Make no Mistake Shibendu does know but rarely do people get the opportunity to be with him in private. For some reason he liked me and we hit it off from the start so I am happy to have learned from him and enjoyed our time in private but do not recommend him without warning.

 

He is too rough for many and he no longer visits the United States..

 

Part If the problem with Kriya advertisement is people believe by the practices you get overnight change from asshole to saint.

 

This is not the case you will change inside more swiftly and the outer habitations of speech and behavior take longer to catch up.

 

Despite tall words Kriya is not a cure for being an asshole you have to change that yourself but it does help😁

Edited April 24, 2019 by Pilgrim

[Pilgrim]

One more thing especially in the beginning when practicing Kriya it is very common to have an upswing in negative emotions and exaggeration and over sensitivity this is why just a small amount is told to be done in the beginning.

 

True purification is not easy, it is walking the razors edge. Too little no effect, too much and you get cut. Takes time to learn and you will suffer many many cuts along the way.

[Pilgrim]

Laughing a bit I realize that unlike the hucksters my portrayal of Kriya is different.

 

I make it sound hard.

 

It is and it is not.

 

Once you can feel the force it is the best feeling in the world as you wake up to a new reality that you were never without to begin with. 

 

This is the self realization.

 

Then your abilities of perception change.

 

Oh but there are so many changes.

 

Least of them is the perception of your bodies that are not meat and bone. 

 

It is the energy and the good no great feeling the word bliss fails to do justice that cause the mind to to become one pointed and allows absorption to become Samadhi.

 

The mind must have an object to become one pointed at first until you catch the feel for Samadhi. 

 

PLEASURE is the way. Mind follows bliss mind becomes absorbed then many many things follow and many things are learned but not with mind.

 

Then you have to integrate your ego and daily life and the changes in you and keep it all together.

 

Slipping into Sabija Samadhi in a meeting is generally not well understood at work. 

[dwai]

I find it amusing how we have the preconception that a Master must be a “saint”. Even after enlightenment, certain personality traits will remain. Otherwise, the personality would become extremely boring  

 

 

 

[dwai]

 

53 minutes ago, Pilgrim said:

 

Then you have to integrate your ego and daily life and the changes in you and keep it all together.

This is the "struggle", if there is any. The personality has certain predilections and not all of them need to be transcended. I don't know if there's a way to "keep it all together" without total surrender to the <Divine|Self|Emptiness|Buddha Nature|Dao>  

 

53 minutes ago, Pilgrim said:

 

Slipping into Sabija Samadhi in a meeting is generally not well understood at work. 

 

[Spotless]

How to become less blind

 

Do not “know” that you cannot see

 

Do not “know” that it will take a great deal of work

 

Do not “know” that you must seek and find a master

 

Do not “know” what you believe

 

The basics in practice will bring to you all - the teachers will come - the teachings will arise

 

There is no mountain not within you - no teaching can hide from you

 

No master can refuse you

 

Be relentless in un-knowing

 

 

 

 

[J Warg]

17 hours ago, Pilgrim said:

Yes and no. He modified the practices for the people and the times.

 

Paramahamsa Hariharananda modified them also. 

 

Each teacher does does based on their realization.

 

Hi Pilgrim 

 

Yes, I understand that depending on the student the teachers need to explain the same topic in different ways, different techniques, etc, but in the case of Yogananda (and always according to what I've read from former students of this SRF, I have no experience with them whatsoever), his kriya yoga left a lot to be desired.

 

Ennio Nimis suffered a lot... this helped him to get out of the SRF and find the real Kriya Yoga, sure! But the purpose of Yogananda's mission in the West was to keep the vast mass happy with little bits of his master's teachings while giving a hard time to the students who wanted more?? Because Ennio not only experienced the rejection of his colleagues, he has also received attacks for making his story open to the public... And this happened not only to Ennio, but -like in every cult with brainwashed members- any student who dared to leave the SRF in those times.

 

You will say: Oh, yes, but this happened after Yogananda 's pass away. Yes, but the how to administer the lessons, how to dosify them, how to keep certain things secret, etc. was planned with him alive supervising it.

 

17 hours ago, Pilgrim said:

Still SRF serves a purpose there are many worldwide who need that particular approach to spirituality. Those that do not  go elsewhere and learn Kriya. 

 

Oh, yes! Everything serves a purpose in this life... I guess terrorism, dictatorship, etc. also serve a purpose, but I can't feel it's right what they do to honest people...

 

Do we need bad teachers, charlatans, etc to open our eyes and see the black and white in life? Sure! But once we discover the charlatans, shouldn't we keep them dismantle?

 

18 hours ago, Pilgrim said:

Lesson here: Even bad advertisement is better than no advertisement.

 

 

I disagree here; if your product is poor or defective, just keep it to yourself... Unless you want to make money fooling everyone.

 

 

19 hours ago, Pilgrim said:

Part If the problem with Kriya advertisement is people believe by the practices you get overnight change from asshole to saint.

 

Yes, I understand, and I've read about the purifying process taking one's mood to the ups and downs... But how long does this purifying process take? How long has Shibendu been practising?

 

Don't the internal changes, the viewing life from a different perspective because of your spiritual experiences, etc. make you kinder to your fellow human brothers?

 

Pilgrim, you are not the only one telling us about the roughness of Mr Shibendu, I read is somewhere else by different people... And I have nothing against him, but I like to see the facts as they are.

 

 

[J Warg]

19 hours ago, Pilgrim said:

Once you can feel the force it is the best feeling in the world as you wake up to a new reality that you were never without to begin with. 

 

This is the self realization.

 

Then your abilities of perception change.

 

That's is what I talked about in my last post 

[Pilgrim]

10 hours ago, J Warg said:

Yes, I understand that depending on the student the teachers need to explain the same topic in different ways, different techniques, etc, but in the case of Yogananda (and always according to what I've read from former students of this SRF, I have no experience with them whatsoever), his kriya yoga left a lot to be desired.

Unlike most Yogananda took it very easy with a large populace of strangers not knowing what level of perception they were at.

 

His lessons are aimed at taking someone who feels nothing and getting them to the point of feeling energy long before Kriya Pranayam was given.

 

For example he taught ENERGIZATION EXERCISES that are not Kriya this was part of the lessons to help people get in touch with feeling energy it is a bit like Chi Kung in this regard.

 

Through his lessons you take almost 2 years of apprenticeship and practices before learning actual Kriya.

It is impossible to know the attainments of the yay sayers and the nay sayers.

 

The actual first Kriya is not so very different from other lineages.

 

The apprenticeship practices are very different.

 

 

 

Edited April 25, 2019 by Pilgrim
Formatting was screwed up and needed to adress a few more things so making this multi replies for easier viewing

[Pilgrim]

11 hours ago, J Warg said:

Ennio Nimis suffered a lot... this helped him to get out of the SRF and find the real Kriya Yoga, sure!

Ennio is a dear friend of mine for years now and I am well aware of his history. 

 

What SRF gives as Kriya is not fake or false. When  you get into the higher Kriyas this becomes readily apparent and the first Kriya is certainly not false in fact it is more advanced than allot of what was given to many Householder lineages making tall claims about theres being the only original real thing. Utter Rubbish that.

 

11 hours ago, J Warg said:

Yogananda's mission in the West was to keep the vast mass happy with little bits of his master's teachings while giving a hard time to the students who wanted more??

 

It is apparent you have an issue with Yogananda. Not sure why as you have stated no affiliation or knowledge of his practices.  It most certainly was not to placate any imagined masses. 

 

Just because someone wants more does not mean they are ready nor is it some obligation just because someone wants something that they automatically get it.  Do you believe it is anyone's  job to satisfy the desires of another? 

 

11 hours ago, J Warg said:

Because Ennio not only experienced the rejection of his colleagues, he has also received attacks for making his story open to the public...

 

How is this surprising? Ennio did what was forbidden. The forbidden thing was not sharing his life story but the practices of Kriya.

 

Reading your words I think you have read Ennio's writings and are full of passion and defending him for some reason when there is nothing to defend. Ennio outgrew all of this long ago.

 

Furthermore Ennio has altered the techniques in his books as well to fit his realizations and the book is a comparative analyses for Kriyabans not some instruction manual.

 

11 hours ago, J Warg said:

And this happened not only to Ennio, but -like in every cult with brainwashed members- any student who dared to leave the SRF in those times.

 

I know many former SRF members including former monks and this did not happen. If you have proof then please do share this.

 

11 hours ago, J Warg said:

You will say:

How nice now you are telling me what I will say. This is interesting because I have already said I would not recommend SRF to anyone but lets see what is it you think I would say?

 

11 hours ago, J Warg said:

Oh, yes, but this happened after Yogananda 's pass away.

I am not sure what you are imagining happened but it does not matter to me what happened one way or another it is none of my business. I was treated kindly by SRF and the now deceased Leader at the time Daya Mata.  I petitioned her to become a monk when I was 19.

 

She encouraged me to wait a while and get more life under my belt before making such a decision and invited me to meet with her and stay at the Ashram in California. That was the epitome of kindness and consideration for a young person and I will always praise her for it.

 

Why? Because it was the correct way to treat a young person. Had she encouraged me then it would have been wrong and 30 years later I can see that very clearly.

 

11 hours ago, J Warg said:

Yes, but the how to administer the lessons, how to dosify them, how to keep certain things secret, etc. was planned with him alive supervising it.

 

And why do you have a problem with this?  Was the thing he had to give not his to give or not give in the manner he saw fit? You come across as someone who feels slighted and this is not making sense based on what you have shared of you knowledge and lack thereof with SRF.

 

Very unusual.

 

You quoted me as saying " Still SRF serves a purpose there are many worldwide who need that particular approach to spirituality. Those that do not  go elsewhere and learn Kriya."

 

Then you write the following:

 

11 hours ago, J Warg said:

Oh, yes! Everything serves a purpose in this life... I guess terrorism, dictatorship, etc. also serve a purpose, but I can't feel it's right what they do to honest people...

 

What are you imagining SRF does?   SRF has as I have told you earlier become primarily a church. I for one do not care what religion anyone follows. If you doubt that people are getting benifit from SRF then why not check out this website Yoganandaji.org you will find quite a few who do.

 

Oh and if it is not too much trouble please stop trying to put words in my mouth you are acting very rude.

 

11 hours ago, J Warg said:

Do we need bad teachers, charlatans, etc to open our eyes and see the black and white in life? Sure! But once we discover the charlatans, shouldn't we keep them dismantle?

 

Best to let them dismantle themselves I am not on a crusade. Are You?  Nothing in life is black and white, nothing. 

 

My full quote was.

 

 

On 4/24/2019 at 10:35 AM, Pilgrim said:

Lesson here: Even bad advertisement is better than no advertisement. Let seekers find and go to what calls to them a few missteps along the way are good for people too.

 

 

You shortened it to:  "Lesson here: Even bad advertisement is better than no advertisement". Then replied with.

 

11 hours ago, J Warg said:

I disagree here; if your product is poor or defective, just keep it to yourself... Unless you want to make money fooling everyone.

 

So I think you have taken what I said out of context. To be clear What I am saying is the more you puke on about a teacher a book or a teaching being bad the more power you are giving that which you do not wish to be spread and are in fact helping it being spread through bad advertisement, singing its damnation is equally effective for stimulating curiosity as singing its praises. You are unwittingly helping it,   whatever it may be.

 

Those selling a bad product could care less about what you or others think. Proof of that is they are selling it.

 

They also feed on curiosity I know this first hand, I was fed upon to satisfy my curiosity but I was aware it was a possibility going into the thing with helping what turned out to be a false guru.  He was no Guru but did teach a good practice. Those who learned when I was present got their moneys worth and then some I made sure of it!!!  All without exception left happy.

 

Did I like it? Hell no! I got used and promises were broken and trusts were broken. Did I receive a good teaching? Yes I most certainly did and still practice it. So for me the price was way, way too high but this is the risk you take when you get out into the world and away from he screen on the internet. 

 

Did it hurt? Did I suffer? Yes It most certainly did and yes I did but it was all a good lesson.

 

I am not foolish enough to Damn him though as that will only increase curiosity and put coin in his purse.

 

Mistake may not be for mistake but sometimes the only way to correct it is to do nothing at all as even that is doing some thing.  

Edited April 25, 2019 by Pilgrim

[Pilgrim]

On 4/24/2019 at 10:35 AM, Pilgrim said:

Part If the problem with Kriya advertisement is people believe by the practices you get overnight change from asshole to saint.

 

12 hours ago, J Warg said:

Yes, I understand, and I've read about the purifying process taking one's mood to the ups and downs... But how long does this purifying process take?

 

The process of purification is endless.

 

You must after emptying the room either fill it with good things or keep cleaning,  This is where Bhakti Yoga comes in or even better Guru Yoga of the Bon Tradition which is essentially energetically connecting to an advanced being and they help you by downloading the qualities they have realized into you like a software upgrade.

 

12 hours ago, J Warg said:

How long has Shibendu been practising?

 

Shibendu started practices from I believe around the age of 14 he is now in his 80's I have no idea if he still practices or when he stopped he told me something about this but I forgot it as it was not important to me. What was important to me was to learn from him and then put in my time with the practices.

 

Length of time on the cushion is no guarantee of anything if that is what you are seeking validation for.  We never know a persons starting point. I would say if a person is not someone you like then better look to see what they are reflecting in your own character you would like to be rid of and work on that.

 

The Bon tradition teaches Antidotes for qualities we wish to be rid of and the link I gave to free teachings in my PPD has these in the free practices. Kriya does not address these issues.

 

12 hours ago, J Warg said:

Don't the internal changes, the viewing life from a different perspective because of your spiritual experiences, etc. make you kinder to your fellow human brothers?

 

I would laughingly say that some people may take many lifetimes of practices to become more pleasant no one knows what there starting point truly is. 

 

I think they do and if we are still talking about Shibendu, he is wealthy and old in his 80’s why do you think he still travels and teaches if not for others benefit?  

 

A big big mistake people make is wanting the teacher to be a certain way and fit their idea of how a teacher is and should be. 

I say do not mistake the teacher for the teaching.

 

It is better to learn good practices you can gain from, from a bastard than to be suckered along with pretty words and practiced manners.

 

How Ennio ever survived 6 years with Shibendu is a mystery.  Ennio is a very deeply feeling heart type person and deeply emotional as well.  Ennio suffered because of his curiosity. I have suffered to satisfy mine and no I am not talking about SRF or Shibendu but someone far worse who shall remain unnamed that teaches a good technique but with him people are disposable and he does not keep his word.

 

Shibendu will take a person to the mat. If your ego is not ready to wrestle it is best to leave this kind of teacher alone.

Most people can not take this kind of teacher especially the pampered people of the West.

 

One of the reasons he and I got along was I thrive with this kind of hard teacher. Even after he blasted me in public which caused one huge muscle bound 6 foot 4  dude to run out of the room like a little girl . 

 

I Did not answer him because he did not want answers he was making a point to everyone in the room about attainments from Kriya I was just the focus.

 

Having to leave early to take a woman to the airport I walked up to him and thanked him in front of the class and asked his permission to leave as he knew about the lady going to the airport. 

 

He was a bit stunned and for an instant was fearful of an attack. Then realized there was none and granted permission.

This is called respect, for a teacher and ones elders. It is also realizing the same ability to get out of hand is in me too so he made a good mirror. I will remember that lesson forever. So this makes him an excellent teacher.

 

later I returned and we walked and spent the evening together with other students went to dinner and so on. When we parted it was with a hug and a kiss, as he kissed me on both cheeks and gave me his blessings.

 

Later his head people told me how shocked everyone was and how impressed Shibendu was I returned after such a blasting.

 

I laughed and replied My old Drill Sergeant was much worse at least no push-ups with Shibendu.

 

So there you have it a mixed bag no black and white and yes I still practice his Kriya it is very powerful.

 

12 hours ago, J Warg said:

Pilgrim, you are not the only one telling us about the roughness of Mr Shibendu, I read is somewhere else by different people... And I have nothing against him, but I like to see the facts as they are.

 

As for seeing things how they are ahhhh now that is up to you and as long as you do not put in the effort to actually meet Shibendu all you will have is others perceptions so I have given mine and they are not black and white.

 

It is a mistake to make up your mind over anyone or anything without directly experiencing them so please try not to fill your heart and mind with others stories. Rather go out and do what I did get in the game and meet the teachers spend time with them and learn then practice and make up your own mind.

 

If you are really wanting to learn Kriya then talk to Donald Abrams as I have said before he is the teacher I recommend.

 

I am not Anti any Kriya lineage or teacher  I am Pro Paramahamsa Hariharananda and Pro  Donald Abrams who is a long time student of Paramahamsa Hariharananda and was given the teaching role by him decades ago. Don has spent decades teaching people he has what ti takes.

 

There is no other person teaching Kriya after all my work of discovery in person and doing that even comes close. https://www.kriyayogauniversity.com/p/easy-kriya-meditation

Edited April 25, 2019 by Pilgrim

[Starjumper]

On 4/23/2019 at 7:09 AM, Starjumper said:

 

This is the picture I made to show the beam of energy

 

I didn't say that much about it.

 

Getting back to this here, something I forgot to mention = )

 

In our system teacher creates this on students right from the start.  It's like throwing them in the deep end in the beginning to see if they can swim.  Most can't swim so they depart - creating lots of failed little baby wizards.  Those that can swim swim better though.

 

Edit: it's not strong like that right at the start for sure, it takes some time + effort from the student.

Edited April 26, 2019 by Starjumper

[J Warg]

Hello Pilgrim 

 

Re-reading them I see that I failed to transmit my thoughts on the topic. I have nothing personal against Yogananda, Shibendu, etc. I'm really sorry if you felt that I was picking on your teacher, that was not my intention.

 

My point is that I have read many biographies of different masters and gurus and -silly me- I tended to believe those stories to the letter... I know, my mistake!  In my daily life I usually believe in the honesty of everybody until they prove me wrong.

 

That's why after many cases of teachers from different lineages abusing their students one way or another I can't help but feel completely dissapointed and sad.

 

I know that human being is not perfect; I had to learn that masters and gurus aren't closer to perfection either... I'm in the process now to understand that even those so-called divine immortal beings who have transcended the material world (if they really exist) and come "down here" to teach us through a certain teacher (not naming anyone) are not free from flaws either...

 

Thank you for your posts.

 

[KuroShiro]

On 4/24/2019 at 4:46 PM, dwai said:

I find it amusing how we have the preconception that a Master must be a “saint”. Even after enlightenment, certain personality traits will remain. Otherwise, the personality would become extremely boring  

 

 

This is thread worthy, no?

[Starjumper]

44 minutes ago, J Warg said:

are not free from flaws either...

 

Maybe it's only a flaw from the point of view of a twisted society - where only the priests are allowed to rape children.

Edited April 26, 2019 by Starjumper

[dwai]

7 minutes ago, KuroShiro said:

 

This is thread worthy, no?

Feel free to start a new one.

[freeform]

14 hours ago, KuroShiro said:

 

This is thread worthy, no?

 

Yes it is.

 

And a master should be a saint after enlightenment.

 

The only reason they aren’t is because they’re not enlightened  

 

In almost all instances I’ve come across ‘awakening’ is confused with ‘enlightenment’ - and they’re very different.

 

incidentally the highest number of confused enlightenments I’ve come across is in the Advaita Vedanta tradition.

 

Not because it’s flawed in some way, but maybe because it so readily achieves an awakening in its students. That’s where I had my first taste of awakening.

[Starjumper]

16 hours ago, Starjumper said:

In our system teacher creates this on students right from the start.

 

I have a question for @silent thunder and @Taoist Texts .   I read that this energy going out the head top is a mark of a Taoist priest.  Have you guys heard of that?  There are no Taoist priests in my kung fu family.

[silent thunder]

Zhou never mentioned it, but then, he didn't speak much when I studied with him.  It was show and follow, not show and tell.

 

Wang Li Ping talked about a variety of things going on in the nine palaces of the head space, the central orifice, the back mirror and entering and exiting the top of the head after the third eye opens, but not a pillar in particular like you describe, or anything related to an aura in that manner that I recall.

 

edit to add:

here's a reference pic from the cover of Wang's book

 

Edited April 27, 2019 by silent thunder

[Taoist Texts]

2 hours ago, Starjumper said:

I read that this energy going out the head top is a mark of a Taoist priest.  Have you guys heard of that?  

Yes its a big deal in priesthood

 

[J Warg]

6 hours ago, freeform said:

And a master should be a saint after enlightenment.

 

The only reason they aren’t is because they’re not enlightened  

 

In almost all instances I’ve come across ‘awakening’ is confused with ‘enlightenment’ - and they’re very different.

 

 

These are very good points. Thank you for bringing them out!