How to become less blind

[Nungali]

14 hours ago, J Warg said:

Hello guys, first of all, thank you all for your formative posts, I’m enjoying them and pondering on them very carefully.

 

So meditation is the foundation and the key.

 

Some of you talk about living in solitude but that’s not an option for me, nor is fleeing to the wilderness and living in a cave. I’m a layman with social responsibilities and I have nowhere to live but in a city. Are we seekers living in cities doomed?

 

Nope .

A cave isn't necessary. Nor do you have to 'flee' .   Dont you get holidays in your country, or time off ?   Anyway,   I have found that cities have a lot less wildlife as well .  Some cities have 'green belt' or big parks .   I'm sure there are lots of different kinds of energies in cities, but most of them seem to be generated by the people that live there.

 

Regarding 'elementals' - one can start with experiencing the elemental energies physically ; dive in the ocean , or 'play' with any water ...  go stand in the wind or up on a high place,   make a campfire, or observe a conflagration ( ummm .... try not to make one )  , etc .  observe (or meditate on, if you prefer) their qualities, their strengths, weaknesses and interplay .

 

 

Quote

 

I understand the necessity of a spiritual master but if finding a real master in the world is difficult (as @GSmaster put it) imagine how hard is to find a half decent teacher in the city or even in the country one lives in. So the sources most of us can rely on are only books or on-line media like this forum.

 

Yeah .   When things really started moving I had to go to the city to find good 'teachers' , as far as 'spiritual stuff' goes.

 

But then, after a life time of doing martial arts, mostly in cities I find the teacher that I always needed, that was perfect for me ( then)  in my own little local country town .

 

There  is  also the 'pathway'  thing ... 'energies' travel along them, also they can intersect , they are 'busier' places.    Sometimes they cross cities.  Its not a good idea to interfere with them though .

 

 

 

 

The Ófeigskirkja – a ‘hidden people church’ – at Gálgahraun, which

held up construction of a new road to the town of Álftanes,  Iceland .

 

 

Edited April 17, 2019 by Nungali

[J Warg]

On 16/4/2019 at 7:33 PM, Starjumper said:

 It's like a bunch of idiots directing energy to the wrong places in their bodies for the wrong reasons because they read about it in some book written by a fundamentalist moron who is clueless as to the real purpose and origins of what they are doing.  It creates energy patterns and channels in the body which are not only useless and bad for health but it absolutely prevents true cultivation of the kind needed to cultivate chi power or abilities.

 

Hello Steve,

 

Yes, I have found these exercises where one is asked to visualize or try to feel energy running through these nadis or qi-channels, chakras, dan-tiens, etc you talk about in many books and articles on Kriya Yoga, QiGong … Are these techniques really that harmful? 

 

When one is suppose “to feel” the lower or the upper dantien, the third eye… Is that dangerous also?

 

BTW the link in your signature has been hacked?

[Starjumper]

1 hour ago, J Warg said:

 

Hello Steve,

 

Yes, I have found these exercises where one is asked to visualize or try to feel energy running through these nadis or qi-channels, chakras, dan-tiens, etc you talk about in many books and articles on Kriya Yoga, QiGong … Are these techniques really that harmful?

 

It depends on a lot of details.  I'm seeing a 300 pound office worker full of toxic flab who never exercises and spends all day at a computer desk who then goes home and sits around and just does the MCO, that's about as bad as it can get.  On the other hand you have people in great condition who practice a lot of kung fu and chi kung.  When they get back from slaving away in the garden for ten hours under the blazing sun it's best if they just sit and visualize the movements.  There's one energy system called New Energy Ways, where you visualize and feel energy in every single bone and joint in your body, in fact in my chi kung we did something similar while just lying around waiting to go to sleep.  There's nothing wrong with that because it covers all the bases. One of the problems with visualizing energy in certain places is the person might be just imagining it and actually missing those places = even worse problems (which is why feeling is so important).  Even if a person 'visualizes' correctly they will generate certain pathways like water that wears a grove in a rock and then can't get out of the grove.  That's just about the most horrible thing a person can do to themselves if they want to embark on the path of chi power.  My teacher put it like this:  "It's like teaching a dog to stay and then when you want it to come to your aid it won't come because it's staying."  Is that colossally dumb or what?

 

But most of all, more than anything, the biggest deal with it, and the biggest problem I have with it ... is that it's just about the wimpiest damn thing I can imagine in the whole world - Circle Jerking.   It won't generate a single ounce more chi or vitality.  You can do waaay better with moving exercises and then some quiet sitting while holding the ball.

 

Quote

When one is suppose “to feel” the lower or the upper dantien, the third eye… Is that dangerous also?

 

Feeling is never dangerous, the only problem that could arise from feeling is if attention is directed to one place too much and it's the 'wrong' place.  The reason is that were you place your attention the energy goes there, therefore it is better to run your attention over your whole body with holistic movements like tai chi or a good moving chi kung.

 

Edit:  The only place where it is generally deemed safe for a person to place 'too much' attention is on their belly,  I think there can't be too much in that spot.

 

 

Quote

BTW the link in your signature has been hacked?

 

Is that why it says "not secure" now?  I'll tell the owner and remove the 'payment' part on the site, thanks.  The site itself seems to still be working

Edited April 17, 2019 by Starjumper

[Pilgrim]

1 hour ago, Starjumper said:

Is that why it says "not secure" now?  I'll tell the owner and remove the 'payment' part on the site, thanks.  The site itself seems to still be working

The site has been hacked it needs to be taken down and the host needs to likely upgrade / update PHP.

 

Then re-upload the site.  If it appears to be working for you then it is likely you are seeing cached pages what I am seeing is most certainly not your site.

Edited April 17, 2019 by Pilgrim

[Nungali]

Yeah .... if thats your site ...  your farm /   property is looking a little different than the last picture you posted !   ;

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited April 17, 2019 by Nungali

[Starjumper]

I think you are looking at tienshan.net   - that is my old expired site.  The new site is taohermitage.com.

 

Where are you seeing that old link?  My age has the new one.

 

I had the server owner check it and he said it was good.

 

~ ~ ~ ~

 

I found the problem.  For some reason the 'view signatures' button was turned off so I wasn't seeing my own signature and didn't know it was outdated.

Edited April 18, 2019 by Starjumper

[Nungali]

5 hours ago, Starjumper said:

I think you are looking at tienshan.net   - that is my old expired site.  The new site is taohermitage.com.

 

Where are you seeing that old link?  My age has the new one.

 

 

I just clicked on what was at the bottom the last post of yours before I made that post, a few hours ago.  But now all your posts show this at the bottom

 

Steve Gray

 

which isnt 'clickable'  .

 

Quote

 

I had the server owner check it and he said it was good.

 

~ ~ ~ ~

 

I found the problem.  For some reason the 'view signatures' button was turned off so I wasn't seeing my own signature and didn't know it was outdated.

 

All these new fangled buttons is confusing me        
 

 

Spoiler

I have ordered some new light switches for the cabin  ;

 

 

 

(  'Bakelite'  )

 

 

....   that'll show  'em ! 

 

 

Edited April 18, 2019 by Nungali

[freeform]

12 hours ago, J Warg said:

Yes, I have found these exercises where one is asked to visualize

 

The great con

 

You see the internal arts work very differently. It’s a little complicated. The idea is to set up certain conditions in your body and mind, so that the Qi flows of its own accord in the necessary ways.

 

This takes a lot of practice time and effort, but once it’s done you will sense the energy moving - it’s very physical and obvious - not subtle and semi imagined.

 

The great con is that - since it’s complicated and hard work to create these conditions. Why not instead imagine the effect that arises as a result of these conditions being in place!? Great marketing idea. Brilliant shortcut. But completely misses (or bypasses) the point of the art form. And has little effect... and is often dangerous if done a lot.

 

The other thing to look out for. Modern internal arts. Things like Clairevision, Wim Hoff method etc.

 

They’ve tapped into something genuine, but separated parts out and manipulated them out of context to get some effect they desire.

 

But they don’t understand the consequences of this manipulation - so the long term results will be useless at best and very dangerous at worst.

Edited April 18, 2019 by freeform

[J Warg]

15 hours ago, Starjumper said:

There's one energy system called New Energy Ways, where you visualize and feel energy in every single bone and joint in your body, in fact in my chi kung we did something similar while just lying around waiting to go to sleep.  There's nothing wrong with that because it covers all the bases. 

 

Hi Steve,

 

Do you mean Robert Bruce's N.E.W?

 

 

15 hours ago, Starjumper said:

You can do waaay better with moving exercises and then some quiet sitting while holding the ball.

 

 

Will some Spring Forest Qigong (or any other non-fighting qigong) do it?

 

 

15 hours ago, Starjumper said:

Edit:  The only place where it is generally deemed safe for a person to place 'too much' attention is on their belly,  I think there can't be too much in that spot.

 

 

Anywhere in the belly? I mean: Some teachers talk about the area behind the navel; other says 2 inches beneath the navel... Does it really make any different?

 

 

[freeform]

1 minute ago, GSmaster said:

Yeah, I have met so many delusional idiots who thought they / their practice is worth something

 

I don’t think that’s fair to be honest. I think most people are sincere and genuinely seeking authentic practices.

 

They enter the ‘spiritual marketplace’ in good faith but get conned in the process. It’s only natural to defend practices that you’ve invested time, effort and money into. 

 

The thing to note is that us modern people are not somehow smarter and wiser, we can’t ‘improve and simplify’ spiritual processes that have already gone through thousands of years of very sophisticated refinement by the very greatest, most advanced minds of the world.

 

The authentic lineages all trace their lines to an (at least) enlightened being who helped create the path for others. And often more than one enlightened being... Sometimes even an immortal.

 

If they say that it takes 3 years of 4hrs of daily practice to fully open your microcosmic orbit, it’s best to listen to that. If they say that to only move on to certain meditative practices when you can sit in perfect posture with no movement (of body or mind) then they must’ve had that condition for a very good reason.

 

The ones who I do find deplorable are the teachers who know these things, but decide to water them down and to change the teachings to reflect their own (or ‘the market’s’) preferences just to make more money.

 

Yes its true that these practices are extremely difficult and not possible for most people. The answer to that is not to make it ‘simpler’ so that it’s accessible to more people - just as it’s not a good idea to make a medical degree simpler and easily accomplished in a couple of weekend seminars.

 

There are approaches that don’t need to go so far of course. Qi Gong for health and well-being for example is great and helpful for most people. The spiritual cultivation path is not. They are not the same thing.

[Mudfoot]

2 hours ago, J Warg said:

 

Anywhere in the belly? I mean: Some teachers talk about the area behind the navel; other says 2 inches beneath the navel... Does it really make any different?

If you practice a system that use both, you use them for different purposes. 

If not,... 

[Starjumper]

4 hours ago, J Warg said:

Do you mean Robert Bruce's N.E.W?

 

Yes, that is the one, but who the patience or the time for that kind of thing?  Not me.  I mentioned I do something similar but it's also quite different than Robert's method.  The main point is it's ok to focus on parts of your body (we do it randomly) and have the energy go there and then feel it.  Like for example if your throat hurts that makes you focus on it, which makes the energy go there.  That's natural and perfectly fine.  You could focus on your elbow and have the energy go there, or you can focus on your hand and have the energy go there, those are ok, BUT if you use your mind to create a flow from your elbow to your hand or your hand to your elbow that is useless, arbitrary, and unnatural.  It's worse if you combine it with specific breathing patterns because it creates bad energy habits that a person may regret later if they learn enough to regret it, and it's even worse if you do it in your torso.  For example, the energy in the MCO, which is kind of a superficial joke in itself, is really supposed to go both ways and it should be exercise both ways, with movement.  It's just that the Circle Jerker direction is done after the other direction, like I said, with movement.

 

Quote

Will some Spring Forest Qigong (or any other non-fighting qigong) do it?

 

I think Spring Forest is pretty good but I don't know that much about it.  I've seen a little of it and it looks like some pieces of beginner style Tien Shan Chi Kung that have been watered down to make it easier, so that's good, can't hurt you or limit future progress.

 

There are so many different kinds of chi kung that have been separated out of the original whole systems that they offer different benefits.  Some are nothing but stretching, some are nothing but calisthenics.  Some are mostly energy work but have very little strengthening and stretching, like Fragrant chi kung; and others use added martial arts moves that combine all three, strengthening, stretching, and energy work, which is good, but they seem to always do it in a haphazard and random manner which indicates they are kind of clueless as far as energy processes or goals are concerned, like FP chi kung.  Except for healing.  Waving your arms around in a random manner is good for energy balancing if you cover all the bases whether it is martial or not. The ones that are more martial are usually less aware of or focussed on energy processes than the non martial ones like the Shaolin ones linked below.

 

There are all kinds of excellent chi kung out there, and as long as they include moving with relaxation they can't hurt you.  

 

Here's a simple way to look at it:  Any system of chi kung which goes against the rules for Fragrant chi kung is wrong so don't do it.

 

I've seen a few of this guy's videos and they have the Starjumper seal of approval as real good all around chi kung that will give people a good foundation:  https://www.youtube.com/user/ShaolinTempleEU/videos

 

Wild Goose chi kung is good.

 

Quote

Anywhere in the belly? I mean: Some teachers talk about the area behind the navel; other says 2 inches beneath the navel... Does it really make any different?

 

The whole area from the navel to the pubic bone and from the front to the back.  People who say it's in this itsy bitsy place rather than that other ittsy bitsy place are suckers who heard something said by some freeking armature who liked to make things up in order to appear more educated and fare holders of special secret knowledge.  I KNOW that because I'm guilty of doing it myself - a couple of times - when I was an amateur - but then luckily my sense of ethics kicked in

Edited April 18, 2019 by Starjumper

[Starjumper]

28 minutes ago, Starjumper said:

 https://www.youtube.com/user/ShaolinTempleEU/videos

 

There's a lot of martial stuff in there, what I meant was that the non martial ones fit the bill for what you were asking

[Starjumper]

10 hours ago, Nungali said:

Steve Gray

 

which isnt 'clickable'  .

 

It is now clickable

[Starjumper]

Quote

The whole area from the navel to the pubic bone and from the front to the back.  

 

See, it's a never ending thicket of details.  There are points such as acupuncture points which are points.  Pointy ... weird word that.  But when my belly got hot it was the whole area I mentioned, so in fact it's none of my business what people want to call what.

Edited April 18, 2019 by Starjumper

[Nungali]

7 hours ago, Starjumper said:

 

It is now clickable

 

... Ahhhhh ... that's better   

[Mudfoot]

On 2019-04-18 at 9:06 PM, Starjumper said:

 

See, it's a never ending thicket of details.  There are points such as acupuncture points which are points. 

I would say we value what we use. 

 

There is a nine chamber dantian model that certain well known authors have published. They are probably from the Celestial Masters tradition, and should most likely be filled with small gods, but someone cut that out. 

This has no place in my practice, so I don't value it. 

 

One can place the attention in the lower abdomen, activating the LDT and in time it will radiate heat and light, and be the engine for quite a few processes. 

I value that. 

 

And you can work on other areas in the body, most of which aligned with the central channel, and learn to feel them and appreciate what they do. 

And yes, those are often hidden behind numerous names, and in my experience are pointless to teach to beginners. You wouldn't believe how long it took me to have use of them (I might be thick though,.... 😁). And the Maiden is one of them. 

 

 

[Starjumper]

7 hours ago, Mudfoot said:

You wouldn't believe how long it took me to have use of them (I might be thick though,.... 😁). And the Maiden is one of them.

 

You think you're thick?  I'm so thick let me tell you, If I can learn this stuff anyone can.

 

Sorry I'm not familiar what the term 'maiden' means as it applies to practicing.

[Mudfoot]

 

⚒️ The banhammer coming your way. 

[Kar3n]

19 minutes ago, Mudfoot said:

 

⚒️ The banhammer coming your way. 

You rang?

 

[Starjumper]

I've been seeing a few posts about enlightenment around here but can't find them now.

 

People are saying that Taoism isn't really for enlightenment but Buddhism is and the Taoists, quietly apologetic, appear to be agreeing to it.  Just your typical garden variety cluelessness resulting from a long line of bozos that like to hide things.

 

Well I'm here to tell you that notion is the hugest bunch of horse shit that's been passed around here lately.

 

The Buddhists are only good at talking about it, just like any non prehistoric religion, they're a bunch of poseurs, and the only things useful that they know about enlightenment came from Hinduism and Taoism.  Buddha said he wanted to end all suffering, now is that stupid or what?  Did he really say that or is a quote from some dumb Bodhisatva?

 

Hinduism and Taoism have much more efficient and direct pathways to enlightenment than Buddhism has. In fact the Taoist and HIndu paths of the wizard (used to be called nei kung) can result in enlightenment in five years.

 

In fact, the yoga that Babaji used to become an immortal (which is NOT Kriya Yoga) is almost identical to my chi kung, and we may be brothers in a way, because he is said to be king of the Serpents - and serpents are brothers of dragons ... and both paths are in the small group called 'path of the immortal'

 

Another big thing is that the enlightenment experience in Taoism is normally quite a smooth, light, and enjoyable experience because of the energy work in real nei kung whereas an enlightenment experience resulting from Yoga can be brutal, painful, and scary; with the Buddhists probably trailing some distance back in third place.

 

 

Edited April 20, 2019 by Starjumper

[Pilgrim]

Well Kriya Yoga was never what Babaji taught.

 

Lahiri Mahasaya a student of Babaji Naga Raj asked for permission to teach common folks some practice they could do as otherwise they had no hope for advancement.

 

Lahiri coined the phrase Kriya Yoga. And they are a few very simple practices for every day people to get a leg up.

 

later it got commercialized and all kinds of wild bullshit promises and statements were bolted into it.

 

”Jet Plane route to God”

 

Shit Sells!

 

If your mission in the 1920’s was to bring some good medicine to the ignorant west you had better wrap it up in a sweet pastry and blend it with the dominant religion otherwise you will not sell enough to benefit anyone let alone keep a roof over your head.

 

This is what Yogananda was taught by Western Capitalists when he left India.

 

Sincerity and value do not often sell well on their own or as the old timers in Pittsburgh used to say.

 

 Kid it ain’ the steak that sells no matter how good it is! It’s the sizzle that sells the steak! 

 

 

 

 

[Starjumper]

24 minutes ago, Pilgrim said:

If your mission in the 1920’s was to bring some good medicine to the ignorant west you had better wrap it up in a sweet pastry and blend it with the dominant religion otherwise you will not sell enough to benefit anyone let alone keep a roof over your head.

 

This is what Yogananda was taught by Western Capitalists when he left India.

 

Sincerity and value do not often sell well on their own or as the old timers in Pittsburgh used to say.

 

 Kid it ain’ the steak that sells no matter how good it is! It’s the sizzle that sells the steak! 

 

I get the feeling more and more that I should just give up on this 'teacher' farce I'm living.  Sometimes I think it would have been best if I had gone deeper into the wilderness, where people would have to take a two day canoe ride to get to me, and instead of spending all my money building a nice big place I should have just built a little shack.  I don't think I can leave here now though because of the dragons that have congregated here.  Maybe if I moved they would move with me or there may be other ones in a new place, but I don't feel like getting started again building a new place ... yet.  I can't leave here now because of all the beautiful babies.  Three Shepherds, three cuddly cats, two Muscovy ducks, four horses, and a Pygmy Owl.  No Partridges or Pear trees here.  Anyway, I suppose that Yangana is my forever home.

 

I had a student come here for ten days because he had to leave Peru for two weeks to renew his visa.  He was a shaman's apprentice and he had to take a two day canoe trip deep into the jungle to get to his teacher.  He was a notably mature person.  He said that they had a very strict diet where they would fast for as long as twenty days and when they ate it was only one meal a day, intermittent fasting. eating mainly bananas and rice and never any oil or salt.  He said that very few people came to his teacher for healing because the required stay was long, and instead everyone goes to see the fake Ayahuasca shamans to go to their big parties.

 

Really the only thing good students do for me is get me to practice more ... whenever one wanders by, I get more practice with the occasional volunteer, but they really don't give much of a damn about it.

 

I would rather do what Keneau Reeves did, start a business fabricating some real fine special fast vehicles to sell to the super rich.  If the book sells enough I will build a metal fab shop here.

 

In case anyone does come here from the book I think i'll just tell them to rent a house in Vilcabamba and commute here for classes.

 

 

Edited April 20, 2019 by Starjumper

[Pilgrim]

Depends on your audience, yours is different.

 

Truthfully most who bite on the Kriya worm and swallow the hook which is so easily obtained  are not ready.

 

Back in the 1920’s when Yogananda came to the West he taught in person and cherry picked those ready and taught them more like Real Kechari Mudra because without the energy being known the outer form alone is a pantomime at best and an excuse for zealots to maim themselves.

 

Before long the tail wound up wagging the dog and he became food for an organization.

 

Teachings are self protected.

 

For most you are secluded quit enough. 

Edited April 20, 2019 by Pilgrim

[Pilgrim]

On 4/18/2019 at 3:02 AM, freeform said:

The great con

 

You see the internal arts work very differently. It’s a little complicated. The idea is to set up certain conditions in your body and mind, so that the Qi flows of its own accord in the necessary ways.

 

Yes this is it exactly. I have seen this in Kriya as well.

 

A big problem in Kriya is too many false teachers and too many false exercise manual books. $$$$$$$$ lots of greedy people.

 

The other problem is a lack or really qualified students. Those who are not ready get taught for dollars.

 

In a way it is okay, as Kriya does nothing to set up the conditions or prepare those who are not ready so no harm is really done. A few dollars spent on some entertainment and that is all.

 

When a person can feel the energy, when it is moving on it’s own already that is when a person is ripe for Kriya.

 

So many become fascinated with so much stuff like the “breathless state” “Kechari  Mudra”  and do not realize it is the Chi or Prana that alone causes these things to occur.

 

The things these teachers never tell anyone is that absorption is impossible without Prana, Chi, energy flowing. Until it is all one is doing is conditioning ones mind for the event of this happening. 

 

This is good because when and if it does the correct guidance into the correct channels is needed.

 

What should be taught to all is to become still, become, silent, become spacious then the force will flow.

 

Here is a little practice focus in the lower abdomen navel and below is good no need to be specific to a point just let it be a field of stillness, a field of silence, a field of spaciousness be there now and in each moment that passes.

 

Experience what comes.

 

This can be done anywhere and in any point in the body as well as without but stay there for safety.

 

My advice:

 

If you perceive energy good, now discover what suits your temperament and learn from a teacher.