What is the purpose of Qigong, Powers, Practices?

[welkin]

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Edited May 8, 2019 by welkin

[freeform]

That’s a lot of different vague questions. Maybe you could break it down for us better?

 

One question I believe is “seeing as spiritual practices rarely if ever lead to enlightenment, how are they useful for the world?”.

 

They're not. Not in the ordinary sense. Spiritual cultivation works a little differently, I believe.

 

Every ‘ordinary’ action, however good it seems also has a negative side effect. For example Elon Musk. You see him as doing good in the world, right? That’s certainly what he wishes... But is all his action good?

 

Look into it past the outer veneer. You’ll find employees that are underpaid, working extreme hours and sustaining injuries from doing mindless repetitive tasks (breaking skills down into mindless repetitive tasks is more ‘economically efficient’). Look at the incredible amount of pollution and destruction caused in mining for the rare elements that make up Tesla’s batteries... look at all the tax loopholes Tesla uses to not pay its share... etc etc.

 

This is almost always the case. Look at anything broadly and deeply enough and you will always find both good and bad.

 

The actions of an awakened person (a zhenren - a ‘complete human’ - not necessarily enlightened, but fully virtuous) is different in that it doesn’t create the same ripples of good and bad. Their actions can seem strange, inappropriate or wrong, but actually they’re creating a positive effect overall - even if it is not so obvious.

[silent thunder]

I pursued Qi Gong initially for health.  There was a time, for much of my 30's where I could not walk without a cane.

There were times I could not walk at all.

 

I longed to play with my young son.

 

Unable to play the hard arts and Kung Fu I followed so passionately in youth, I returned to the soft aspects of the arts that before held no interest for me.  On some level, I became aware that in this soft pursuit, was the potential for healing that Western Dr's could not offer with their carpentry mindset approach to the body and their pharmacological mindset.

 

Curious that as my body healed (and it has now become whole again), my mind began to soften in manners I could never have anticipated.  This led to a pull to sit in silence and abide in stillness.  Ironic that when Qi Gong was originally pursued it was to be able to run and jump again, and it then led to finding a resounding joy in the stillness that before, was a prison to me.

 

The stillness resonates now in all aspects of my life to much benefit.  It resonates even in the midst of great motion, when my son and I run on the beach, play games or sit in comfortable silence with each other.

 

 

[Fa Xin]

I always did it to feel better, and to get over my hangups. It was always done to feel better NOW. 

 

I tried other things like exercise and drugs... but nothing felt like it was actually working - was more a temporary fix. 

 

In an anxious situation? Connect with a deity and I feel peace. Can’t focus on what your doing? Meditate for a moment and it’s like a reset button. Rinse and repeat for years. I used it as a tool to help deal with myself and the world.  It may not sound holy, but this type of motivation had me practicing all day everyday. 

 

Any kinds of “achievements” for lack of a better word happened almost like a side effect of trying to feel better in the moment. 

 

Eventually, hopefully... you notice you need the practices less and less. That the pain or anxiety or whatever isn’t there anymore. That you’re more balanced and feel good all the time. Your life becomes the practice. It integrates at some point. 

[dwai]

The purpose of Qigong is cultivating Qi. 

[rideforever]

9 hours ago, welkin said:

Appreciate your response!

 

Yes the more spiritual (Real/conscious) you are you will energetically affect people around you positively.
Not only that but you yourself will not have wasted your life.

You will also begin to understand what life is about and what is "wrong", through your own investigations and new self-knowledge.
Soon you should understand that it is quite hard, and you will concentrate on making progress which takes time, and your ideas of helping the world will become more realistic, seeing how much effort is required to sort yourself out.
If nobody on this planet "makes it" then you can say that the entire planet and everyone on it has failed, so if you make it you make it all worthwhile, the countless billions of lives that have been attempted here will become worthwhile if you personally cross the line.
What else is there to do anyway?
More experience will tell you a lot, it's easy to discuss the mountain whilst you are sitting in the pub without having set foot on it, but such discussions are not informed.
So be inspired by the wonderful teachers that mankind has had and begin the climb.

[welkin]

 

45 minutes ago, rideforever said:

Yes the more spiritual (Real/conscious) you are you will energetically affect people around you positively.
Not only that but you yourself will not have wasted your life.

 

1 hour ago, Fa Xin said:

I always did it to feel better, and to get over my hangups. It was always done to feel better NOW.

 

6 hours ago, silent thunder said:

I pursued Qi Gong initially for health.  There was a time, for much of my 30's where I could not walk without a cane.

There were times I could not walk at all.

 

 

Thank you all for your responses! I think learning reasons of why other people do it can give a lot of perspective. I may make another thread about why people practice.

 

I came across these practices as a result of not being able to understand myself through any other means. I felt lost, because absolutely nothing filled my void. I didn't know my relationship to other people because i was always so strange and 'different'. And so more recently, through certain events. I had the idea if i'm different, then i should look to do something different or perceived as impossible. And i was drawn here. Which does seem to teach the impossible. It wasn't for power however. i wanted to do positive in the world, but realized if i did it solely through the typical means (business, success, etc.) , i would only become a product of the system. That is the reason why i have postponed or potentially fully left an incredibly wealthy future. However, initially it all started with the same reasons. A journey of healing, better living, understanding, and stronger consciousness.

 

 

[Pilgrim]

10 hours ago, welkin said:

What is the main purpose of certain practices such as qigong, tai chi, or many other spiritual practices for that matter?

I will answer in the other category.

 

Other Category:

 

Personal Evolution: Fulfilling your potential and discovering just what that means in the doing. There are many ways and you have to figure out which one suites your individual temperament best.

 

 

[welkin]

9 hours ago, freeform said:

That’s a lot of different vague questions. Maybe you could break it down for us better?

 

The actions of an awakened person (a zhenren - a ‘complete human’ - not necessarily enlightened, but fully virtuous) is different in that it doesn’t create the same ripples of good and bad. Their actions can seem strange, inappropriate or wrong, but actually they’re creating a positive effect overall - even if it is not so obvious.

 

I think I ironically made my questions seem vague as a result of trying really hard to explain them and not make them seem vague. Lol

 

So i apologize for that. Maybe i'll ask the more important questions one by one.

 

Please correct me if I'm wrong. But i believe that the world is becoming more unconscious, even though more 'intelligent'. Therefore worse values, less wisdom, less, caution, less actual intelligence. This may not be the case. and i think it's been said a lot that there is a lot more consciousness being created if anything. Maybe, i'm just a negative person, but i don't really see that. And theorize that it is not actual consciousness that's being spread. Just awareness of mind stuff.. And if it is true in the # of people who are, i don't believe the % ratio is better in comparison to the population. Again, idk anything it's just my interpretation.

 

If these meditative/spiritual/energy practices have the power to create stronger consciousness in the world, why is it that it is so narrowly reached to others compared to other things such as religions, science, politics?

 

One of the ideas as i had mentioned above is that this niche doesn't want these teachings to be widely spread. But i could be wrong.

 

[welkin]

24 minutes ago, Pilgrim said:

I will answer in the other category.

 

Other Category:

 

Personal Evolution: Fulfilling your potential and discovering just what that means in the doing. There are many ways and you have to figure out which one suites your individual temperament best.

 

 

I think this alone is worthwhile.

[dwai]

 

47 minutes ago, welkin said:

I came across these practices as a result of not being able to understand myself through any other means. I felt lost, because absolutely nothing filled my void.

This is a good sign. You are able to recognize the “void” in your life. It is due to a primordial programming that is in us all. Most people go through life trying to fill this void with things, people and relationships. But it cannot be filled that way. More you reach out into the phenomenal world for fulfillment, the more you end up yearning.

 

The only way to fill this void is to seek its source. Where from  is this void originating? 

 

Towards that end, qigong will definitely help. But not in the way most people understand it. Developing your Qi, powers, etc won’t solve this problem. The answer is in a side-effect of qigong or other such mind-body repetitive practices. It results in focusing of the mind and eventually stilling of the mind. At that point, with a still (empty) mind, when you seek the source of the void, you will find the solution  to that which is at the root of all suffering in the world. And with it, all suffering will simply disappear...

 

[Pilgrim]

5 minutes ago, welkin said:

 

I think this alone is worthwhile.

Do you have a practice? if so please share.

 

For instance my practices have their root in the ability to feel energy vibration / electrical / magnetic, hear the sound of the life current and to see it as well.

 

To do these practices requires an affinity for them and they have to suit your temperament and your ability to grow from rapid changes they induce as side effects.

 

All these practices have one function to lead to one pointed absorption and samadhi of differing degrees. It is during the absorption changes happen, the practices are the vehicle. 

[Pilgrim]

1 hour ago, dwai said:

 

This is a good sign. You are able to recognize the “void” in your life. It is due to a primordial programming that is in us all. Most people go through life trying to fill this void with things, people and relationships. But it cannot be filled that way. More you reach out into the phenomenal world for fulfillment, the more you end up yearning.

 

The only way to fill this void is to seek its source. Where from  is this void originating? 

 

Towards that end, qigong will definitely help. But not in the way most people understand it. Developing your Qi, powers, etc won’t solve this problem. The answer is in a side-effect of qigong or other such mind-body repetitive practices. It results in focusing of the mind and eventually stilling of the mind. At that point, with a still (empty) mind, when you seek the source of the void, you will find the solution  to that which is at the root of all suffering in the world. And with it, all suffering will simply disappear...

 

Interesting that you wrote this I had to keep coming back to write and then post and find such similar words.   OP you have the start of a good thread here. Keep your questions short and direct.

[Pilgrim]

3 hours ago, welkin said:

Please correct me if I'm wrong. But i believe that the world is becoming more unconscious, even though more 'intelligent'. Therefore worse values, less wisdom, less, caution, less actual intelligence. This may not be the case. and i think it's been said a lot that there is a lot more consciousness being created if anything. Maybe, i'm just a negative person, but i don't really see that. And theorize that it is not actual consciousness that's being spread. Just awareness of mind stuff.. And if it is true in the # of people who are, i don't believe the % ratio is better in comparison to the population. Again, idk anything it's just my interpretation.

 

If these meditative/spiritual/energy practices have the power to create stronger consciousness in the world, why is it that it is so narrowly reached to others compared to other things such as religions, science, politics?

 

One of the ideas as i had mentioned above is that this niche doesn't want these teachings to be widely spread. But i could be wrong.

So yes and no. You are completely correct and completely wrong at the same time.

 

Allot of the way you perceive the world is correct but it is colored tinted as well.

 

The world, The world you know that is a mighty big place. How about we narrow it down to your world instead.

 

Even that is pretty big. Here is how you make the world a better place.

 

Make your inner world a better place, then when you meet a stranger that smile will be a real smile and you will induce loving kindness and joy in others if you can do this just by bringing this out sincerely in yourself then you are worth a million princes.

 

This is how the world improves.

 

For instance I was doing some grocery shopping the other day and I was up in the high heavens of the 7th Chakra and above. My heart Chakra was flooded with divine joy and I was evidently glowing and grinning like an idiot. A rough looking guy accustomed to scowling saw me and said hey try not to be so happy! I laughed and he broke up laughing like it was the best joke ever and said just kidding.

 

You know in that moment his soul was free of decades of earth life and he was a beautiful being again.

 

The world is huge with Billions upon Billions of souls coming here in this time in history when Earth is abundant and strong, young enough to take the strain of so many and so many are getting the lessons they need from earth life and earth realm and they are varied and many and so many fine striations as to defy counting.

 

it is all very beautiful when the enormity of it all does not overwhelm. For all the Billions present there are far, far more that are not incarnate.

 

We are small yet oh so very important. Remember that. Everyone is precious and matters.

 

Earth has not always been like this it will not always be like this.

 

Allot of what you see is overpopulation and with it comes a lack of room and space for your fellows. Many evils follow this.

 

So you are here now and questioning and this is good out of all the many who come here and other places it is less than a thimble full of all of humanity and that is okay.

 

Everything in its time and place everyone in there’s.

 

Work on developing a kind and gentle heart, one that melts rapidly and angers slowly and you will have achieved much.

 

 This Earth this life is very special being here now with the ability to communicate with others is a tremendous blessing. This was not always so for many of us, we suffered isolation and uncertainty, welcome, welcome.

 

Don't worry so much about the world make you a better world then the outer will follow. 

Edited April 17, 2019 by Pilgrim

[Fa Xin]

Great post Pilgrim, powerful stuff. 

[Zork]

@welkin

You are overthinking it. Qigong is a tool for a purpose. Dolic describes qigong systems as programs for your computer. You download programs according to your individual needs.

 

The same goes for qigong. Some are for health, others cultivate chi, others have martial purposes etc.

[freeform]

9 hours ago, welkin said:

the world is becoming more unconscious, even though more 'intelligent'.

 

You're right in some ways yes.

 

One has to look at this historically to really get what’s going on.

 

There has been a real shift in how we relate to others and how we think of our individuality... 

 

Even in my lifetime I’ve noticed this shift. Neighbours used to not only know one another, but be friends, support, share, do things communally etc. 

 

There has been a movement away from community to individuality.

 

Historically your identity was just as an aspect of your tribe or extended family group. That’s how you thought of yourself - not so much as an individual but a part of a bigger group.

 

These days it’s different, everyone tries to be an individual. Different from the others. We don’t identify ourselves as part of a group or tribe or even a family so much anymore.

 

Much of what we do is concerned with adorning this individuality. I’m this sort of individual so I drive this kind of car and wear that sort of watch and do these sorts of things and support this political party and read those sorts of news publications.

 

The best illustration of this shift is the ‘selfie’.

 

In spiritual cultivation we work to dismantle this sense of ‘self’. This worked a little differently in the past.

 

To dismantle your ‘self’ in the past, you’d move away from your family, you’d change your name, you’d shave your head etc. If you ask a Daoist in Asia what their name is and where they came from you’d get some strange replies. Because they don’t want to identify with their past self (that belonged to a place and a group).

 

Nowadays we’ve placed even greater emphasis on this false ‘self’. So letting it go is harder.

 

So what we do now (and this is insidious) is we morph spiritual cultivation to fit into our identity...

 

So we dress a certain way, get a top knot, get an Om tattoo, wear crystal jewellery, carry a yoga mat around, smell of incense etc etc... basically adorning our identity with this spiritual-looking wrapping. And if this is what ‘the market’ wants it’s what it gets... so we have Daoist practices based on sex and imagination, we have ‘beach body yoga’, ‘enlightenment in only 15 minutes a day’... we have ‘spiritual’ books full of platitudes and no real substance.

 

This is happening. And it’s sometimes saddening to see. Because sometimes people are yearning for something bigger, but when they enter the spiritual marketplace they fall into the trap of this sort of ‘instagram spirituality’ crap.

 

But there’s also an opening up going on. It’s largely hidden. But I’ve seen teachers, teaching publicly, in an accessible way, spiritual practices that have been hidden and only revealed to the very few.

 

If you really want to, Now really is the best time in history to get into spiritual cultivation.

 

Just be wary of your own pull of ‘the self’. Notice when you feel special and different - these are clues that the self is trying manipulate spirituality into an identity - a spiritual veneer.

 

Be cautious also of others who fell into that trap and are offering tantalising “Secrets of manifestation” and other soothing and comforting platitudes.

 

The spiritual path is difficult. The bar is set far higher than you imagine. You’ll need strength, determination and discernment to proceed.

[lifeforce]

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Edited April 25, 2019 by lifeforce

[lifeforce]

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Edited April 25, 2019 by lifeforce

[welkin]

23 hours ago, dwai said:

 

This is a good sign. You are able to recognize the “void” in your life. It is due to a primordial programming that is in us all. Most people go through life trying to fill this void with things, people and relationships. But it cannot be filled that way. More you reach out into the phenomenal world for fulfillment, the more you end up yearning.

 

The only way to fill this void is to seek its source. Where from  is this void originating? 

 

Towards that end, qigong will definitely help. But not in the way most people understand it. Developing your Qi, powers, etc won’t solve this problem. The answer is in a side-effect of qigong or other such mind-body repetitive practices. It results in focusing of the mind and eventually stilling of the mind. At that point, with a still (empty) mind, when you seek the source of the void, you will find the solution  to that which is at the root of all suffering in the world. And with it, all suffering will simply disappear...

 

 

Thank you for the words of wisdom Dwai.

[welkin]

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Edited May 8, 2019 by welkin

[welkin]

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Edited May 8, 2019 by welkin

[welkin]

8 hours ago, lifeforce said:

 

I have to add that my way into the internals/meditation was my previous 2 decades of external martial arts practice. It was a progression for me. From Karate, Judo, Wing Chun, BJJ, Muay Thai, Eskrima and Bujinkan, I ventured into Xingyi, Qigong and meditation. I healed injuries acquired in the externals through these incredibly powerful forms of cultivation. Now that I've added yiquan and LHBF, hopefully the benefits will continue.

 

Powerful. I need to learn how to defend myself. Was planning jiu jitsu. Any single one you'd recommend personally?

[Pilgrim]

9 minutes ago, welkin said:

But i dont understand the idea of being still,

Stillness is very important. It is in stillness silence and spaciousness where answers are explained for one thing.

 

The Steps are like this.

 

Become still

Become silent

Become spacious

 

There are practices for this and the only way to understand the importance is to become these three things then you will get it.

 

13 minutes ago, welkin said:

o i theorized that just as we are all spiritually and consciously connected, we are also unconsciously, mind connected. My theory is that the human mind/ego, that i believe at least is separate of consciousness or another side of it, seems to be wanting to separate from consciousness. I have a strong fear, that we are unconsciously creating IA (if you know what i mean) to separate this.

 

So i'm not sure about anything. but i fear that there is true reason to fear this thing. I see this in a lot of people. And although we are becoming more consciously connected today, i also believe we are becoming unconsciously connected too.....

 

Connections are.

 

They exist as you theorize. human ego mind is a tool, without it you can not express in this lifetime, it is only a problem when ignorant of this and even then for those that are truly ignorant it is a non issue they just Push their "I" daily through life.

 

The people it is a problem for are the ones waking up to the facts of the matter,  then you have a problem.

 

Spiritual practices come from this realization. Many if not most practices help indirectly solve this as they lead to absorption and the Samadhi states where transformation takes place and answers become intuited.

 

As far as trusting your instincts goes it always a good idea. Just be aware opening up the heart is not all a bed of roses most carry significant pain there as well it is a warriors undertaking the heart is no easy thing, it is one of the major Granthis or Knots in yoga to release.

 

Is it worth it? I'll let you know when mine has finished maturing but it is not easy. So far I would say yes it is worth it in all seriousness but I swear it is awful confusing when you feel great joy and cry.

[freeform]

7 hours ago, welkin said:

i wanted to fit in for 20 years, and tried so hard, that i lost my conscious self

 

 

Its quite normal for people that come to these arts to have some difficulty or a painful past of some sort.

 

In the old days the ones who became the village shaman were often also put in this position by life circumstances - serious illness, death of parents, some congenital disfigurement etc.

 

Most normal people that are happy with their lives will just get into football and Hollywood movies - why bother with all this weird introspective stuff  

 

7 hours ago, welkin said:

I need to learn how to defend myself

 

That’s a very good place to start. It’s a good idea to look for a teacher that is less concerned with defence and more with efficient and effective expression of their art. Make sure they’re not paranoid and obsessed with violence.