Deleted

[lifeforce]

.

Edited April 25, 2019 by lifeforce

[lifeforce]

.

Edited April 24, 2019 by lifeforce

[kondensation]

The mystery person looks like a regular worker.

[lifeforce]

.

Edited April 24, 2019 by lifeforce

[joeblast]

NOTRE DAME CHIEF ARCHITECT SAYS THIS WAS NO ACCIDENT

video embedded…

 

The architect says there was no renovation at the site where the fire first broke out. This excludes welding conspiracy theories etc. Furthermore, the architect says 800-year-old oak does not catch fire without an accelerant. Security protocols were put in place to prevent this type of catastrophe according to numerous reports…

No lack of suspects for this terror attack either… deep state, antifa, or other terror groups.

 

 

[thelerner]

When a story or youtube has a name in all caps like CHIEF ARCHITECT.. then doesn't go on to name them, you might want to be suspect. 

 

There is a conspiracy industry that goes into high gear at any disaster, shooting first and well never asking questions beyond what serves there dialog.  Here an interesting article on how the propaganda machine shoots first- https://www.buzzfeednews.com/article/janelytvynenko/notre-dame-hoax-timeline

A Timeline Of How The Notre Dame Fire Was Turned Into An Anti-Muslim Narrative

"This is how disinformation spread from fringe message boards and social media to far-right websites and cable news.

The devastating fire at the Notre Dame Cathedral led to an outpouring of anguish and sympathy. It also prompted conspiracy theorists, anti-Muslim campaigners, and far-right figures to begin spreading baseless claims and conspiratorial theories that Muslims were to blame.

 

At no point have French authorities said the fire was deliberately set, and as of now investigators say all signs point to it being a tragic accident. But by the time official information began to spread, the seeds of an anti-Muslim narrative had been planted using false claims and innuendo. It quickly cascaded from fringe message boards and social media to far-right websites and cable news.

Here’s a timeline of how a coordinated online campaign to link Muslims to the Notre Dame fire unfolded.

 

(Note: Authorities have not released any definitive information about the cause of the fire, which means we still don’t know for sure what was responsible. This story shows how baseless and false claims sought to fill that information vacuum.)

The first hours (11 a.m. to 2 p.m. ET)

Fake Twitter accounts pretending to be CNN and Fox News were the first to start spreading disinformation about the fire. Each account was created this month and claimed to be a parody of the real organization. It took Twitter two hours to remove the fake CNN account, and even longer to remove the Fox News imposter..."

 

 Me> I'm not claiming arson wasn't involved, I'm saying people don't know yet.  That the authorities have investigations underway and should get to the truth but it may take a little time.  Conspiracy theorists (or the hoaxers who play them) are already spitting out garbage on a couple fronts and that it might be best to take premature claims with a grain of salt. 

[Earl Grey]

14 hours ago, thelerner said:

When a story or youtube has a name in all caps like CHIEF ARCHITECT.. then doesn't go on to name them, you might want to be suspect. 

 

I've read that people who primarily get their information online are more susceptible to hoaxes, and due to the psychological concept known as the Backfire Effect, their beliefs are reinforced even when fact checks and fallacy checks are presented. This is also coupled with a recent piece I read in the Financial Times and a sister piece in the New York Times (which I am sure most of the members here will discredit as they have in the off-grid section multiple times or dismissed as "MSM propaganda").

 

The works in question showed how people on YouTube make a lot of conspiracies up like Pizzagate not because these are muckraking exposés (which they are also unqualified to make and have a series of errors within minutes), but because it's actually them being motivated by income from views.

 

It is a problem of the economy when people knowingly do this and can earn well in spite of being fully aware of the societal damage that it causes from misinformation. And those who eat up the misinformation are those alt-right conspiracists who truly believe that they understand what the real facts are.

 

Challenge any of them to verify facts without just Google searching, finding a page on social media, a meme, or YouTube video, and see what comes up. 

 

I'll keep the rest of my views to myself and have more serious conversations on such issues off site because they simply can't be had in this forum. 

EDIT: Seriously, how is it that this world has come to a point where people follow what are essentially tabloids and severely unqualified people over actual professionals to check sources?

Edited April 18, 2019 by Earl Grey

[Taoist Texts]

6 hours ago, thelerner said:

When a story or youtube has a name in all caps like CHIEF ARCHITECT.. then doesn't go on to name them, you might want to be suspect. 

 

There is a conspiracy industry that goes into high gear at any disaster, shooting first and well never asking questions beyond what serves there dialog.  Here an interesting article on how the propaganda machine shoots first- https://www.buzzfeednews.com/article/janelytvynenko/notre-dame-hoax-timeline

A Timeline Of How The Notre Dame Fire Was Turned Into An Anti-Muslim Narrative

"This is how disinformation spread from fringe message boards and social media to far-right websites and cable news.

The devastating fire at the Notre Dame Cathedral led to an outpouring of anguish and sympathy. It also prompted conspiracy theorists, anti-Muslim campaigners, and far-right figures to begin spreading baseless claims and conspiratorial theories that Muslims were to blame.

Like this?

 

 

[joeblast]

13 hours ago, thelerner said:

When a story or youtube has a name in all caps like CHIEF ARCHITECT.. then doesn't go on to name them, you might want to be suspect.

When you dont even watch it enough to know that they mentioned Chief Architect Benjamin Mouton at least 3, 4, 5 times in there if not more

 

 

 

Quote

Me> I'm not claiming arson wasn't involved, I'm saying people don't know yet.  That the authorities have investigations underway and should get to the truth but it may take a little time.  Conspiracy theorists (or the hoaxers who play them) are already spitting out garbage on a couple fronts and that it might be best to take premature claims with a grain of salt. 

The Chief Architect here is telling you that the fire began in an area that was not undergoing renovations, which serves to dispel conspiracy theories like "oh, its probably just a run of the mill repair accident" and such.

 

If this were some random person asserting this, ok who the fk's that, but when the guy overseeing the repair work comes out and says this, you'd think it should perhaps be paid some attention?

 

It would appear that you recognized an alt-right format and shut it off rather quickly   Even wtf's his name shep on fox was trying to lead guests away from saying anything about it being anything other than an accident.  MSM is pure shite propaganda, those couple journos in europe werent saying the CIA basically vets their content a couple years ago for nothin'. 

Edited April 18, 2019 by joeblast

[lifeforce]

.

Edited April 24, 2019 by lifeforce

[Earl Grey]

2 hours ago, lifeforce said:

 

And it has been for decades, only it's far worse. Manufactured fear-mongering and the shutting down of people who don't toe the party line. Anyone who questions the left-wing garbage is demonised. It's quite pathetic. I'm just glad that more folks are seeing through this horseshit.

As for getting information from YouTube videos as mentioned in one of the posts above, I agree you have to be discerning and have your head screwed on not to be misled, but there are some fantastic researchers and film-makers. I know who I'd rather trust.

 

As a former journalist and scholar, the popular misconceptions of the media now are based on misunderstanding and lack of understanding together. 

 

The lack of understanding comes from the more popular varieties of "reporting" amongst both alternative and established sources that in the old days would be relegated to Yellow Journalism and tabloids at supermarket checkout counters, nowadays just memes on social media. The misunderstanding comes from believing that every news source has the same agenda--they do not. 

 

There are four kinds of reporting in one modern model from the 20th century (please note that we are already far past post-modern times in 2019): the observer, the tool of the state, the watchdog, and the trickster. The observer tends to avoid analysis and tries to present currently known facts, the tool of the state obscures information and promotes ideology and self-justification over facts, the watchdog questions facts and may uncover unknown or unreleased information in addition to correlating previously unknown relationships, and the trickster takes facets of all three while promoting its own agenda which can be all and none of the prior categories. 

 

Most people see the "independent" and "alternative" sources as watchdogs, which is technically not wrong because that's the kind of approach that they wish to take, but much closer to how the Washington Free Beacon (a surprisingly good news outlet in spite of being right-biased) characterizes itself, which is combat journalism, and is quite different compared to investigative reporting or muckraking. The question is, as watchdogs, who are their masters (readers) and whom are they watching out for? Most of the time in the latter part of this decade, what they are watching out for are potential openings to discredit opposing viewpoints through straw man arguments and creative liberties with information (notice the difference in usage between information and facts).

 

Many conservative outlets tend to be more analytical, and thus more opinion-based. Many liberal outlets focus on fact checking, but the problem with the fact checking is the presentation of information is subject to the level of intelligence of the readers (facts can be misrepresented or easily misunderstood). A piece in the Financial Times International Weekend Edition earlier this month reported that many people who favor certain economical policies from issues ranging from Brexit, the European Union (Brexit the event and the EU are two separate issues here for clarification), the American Federal Reserve System, and AMLO's desire to shift to state industries over private enterprise, and more demonstrate that most people lack a fundamental basic understanding of how economics and finance work, let alone how the global system actually operates. Furthermore, those who do understand how it works seldom acknowledge existing weaknesses in the system. 

 

So with watchdog journalism being a popular base model now and combat journalism being the default mode of presentation, what is now left is that the alternative individuals making such videos such as the Notre Dame video as mentioned earlier are motivated by profit from views and in other cases, like in the Philippines, paid trolls weaponize the Internet and social media, and misinformation is what makes social media by default categorized as trickster with some elements of watchdog. And they are not accountable to ethics and standards of reporting, but to their viewers and readers, who pay not just through clicks and advertising revenue, but also pay the hidden cost of what Nietzsche once predicted was the decline of literacy and subsequently critical thinking: by making literacy universal, the quality of literacy declines, and we can infer that by universal access to information, the quality of information available greatly diminishes. 

 

Seldom do we have outlets that merely observe aside from Reader's Digest. What we do have are tools of many authoritarian regimes who benefit from Facebook and its algorithms that make it the primary news source for many individuals in countries like Cambodia and Myanmar and thus subject to misinformation and eventual jailing of dissidents, which in turn invites echo chambers of individuals seeking others with like-minded world views and subsequently helps enterprising groups recognize, target, and create news outlets catering to these groups, such as Breitbart and Big League Politics on the Right, and Bitch Media and Mashable on the Left. So when YouTube videos like this spread, Big Tech algorithms, advertising dollars, and the content creators all come together in a closed loop that makes its supporters believe that they see the big picture believing they are free because a door has been opened, when all that they see is a different pattern of wallpaper in the next cell, for they remain in the prison they unknowingly co-created with algorithms, advertising, and alternative advocacies.

 

So is the media a propaganda machine? Depends on whom they are writing for, especially when the ideological slant is apparent in headlines. Does the mainstream media lie? Yes, it does, but to presume that alternative media does not is ludicrous. The mono-narrative of media (yes, across mainstream and alternative media) might appear to be fear-based, but this is sadly what people asked for themselves and are just as accountable.

 

Adam Smith is the individual often attributed in an apocryphal manner to have once said "My opinion changes when the facts change" but sadly the facts are dismissed over ideology today, as ideology changes facts, and what unadulterated facts exist are subject to being misapplied towards false conclusions from unqualified individuals for uneducated consumers, who ultimately feed only the advertisers and algorithms. 

Edited April 18, 2019 by Earl Grey

[lifeforce]

.

Edited April 24, 2019 by lifeforce

[windwalker]

12 minutes ago, Earl Grey said:

Adam Smith is the individual often attributed in an apocryphal manner to have once said "My opinion changes when the facts change" but sadly the facts are dismissed over ideology today, as ideology changes facts, and what unadulterated facts exist are subject to being misapplied towards false conclusions from unqualified individuals for uneducated consumers, who ultimately feed only the advertisers and algorithms. 

 

 

Nice post.

 

Well agreeing with most of what you've written I often wonder if it was any different in different times.

[Earl Grey]

32 minutes ago, windwalker said:

 

 

Nice post.

 

Well agreeing with most of what you've written I often wonder if it was any different in different times.

 

Depending on the country and era, there were differences, but this is a topic best saved for offline unless there are people who are actually interested in learning more. I don't see that happening any time soon because most people even before the Internet didn't want to have their views challenged but to retreat into their comfortable little corners. And at times, those who try to challenge their viewpoints don't have a very strong basis to argue and effectively challenge them. 

 

Recommended reading: Confessions of An American Media Man by Tom Plate, Yellow Journalist by William Wong, Fear and Loathing on the Campaign Trail 1972 and The Gonzo Papers vols. 1-3 both by Hunter S. Thompson. 

 

34 minutes ago, lifeforce said:

controlled by the left and shutting down anything that's not in line with their views.

 

This is more bottom-up as alluded to in my above post, because of their readers/viewers/consumers, as is the case with alternative news and moreso with the latter because it's their lifeline: their paying constituents in their niche. For news groups with readers who are no more than a few thousand, those small numbers must be not just pleased, but engaged and fanatically supportive if their writers want to pay their bills. 

 

34 minutes ago, lifeforce said:

I realise that there are agendas also within the alternative media. That's not to say that there are truths also.

 

Yes, I am aware there are gems in alternative media. I was part of several groups who came up with some very important pieces for consideration for the audiences we had with our alternative viewpoints as independent contributors.

 

Sadly, the audience wasn't interested in a counter-narrative, especially one that fundamentally uprooted the issue by challenging the fragile paradigm. Specifically, we were going against the mono-narrative of Asian Americans and identity politics by presenting a viewpoint that didn't rely on victim language or an America-centric worldview that relied on disregarding their Asian heritage except when convenient.

 

Our team's articles were applauded by a few intellectuals, but widely overlooked, ignored, or ridiculed by the more common audience who comically missed the point due to parochialism. 

Edited April 18, 2019 by Earl Grey

[joeblast]

when purported observers and watchdogs are actually state sponsored combat propaganda. 

 

(but here we should treat 'state' as the internationalist entities controlled by the central banks and their counterfeit printing presses that serve to endebt the world.)  (and I had to take the word journalism out, just because project mockingbird went private and the project allegedly shut down, the effects of it have been far reaching and prevalent throughout the media, and it got way worse as we saw the giant consolidation of the media entities happen over the last 20-30 years.)  (and we should not forget that Obama's NDAA effectively made propaganda by the us gov legalized.)

 

Spoiler

 

them conspiracy theories wasnt cia drug running one of them?

 

 

Edited April 18, 2019 by joeblast

[Earl Grey]

2 minutes ago, joeblast said:

when purported observers and watchdogs are actually state sponsored combat propaganda. 

 

Yes, many of them  (thankfully not all) sadly are not free of the influence of their board members and shareholders, when the stakeholders (the people) are theoretically the primary beneficiaries. The stakeholders for the smaller news sources are the group to question as much as the shareholders for the larger news sources. 

 

I can't make heads or tails of the rest of what you're alluding to based on the manner of what you've written in the rest of your message due to some of the esoteric references, but it appears that we have different news sources and arrive at different conclusions about some current events. Based on the scientific method, your data, hypothesis, and conclusions are all different from mine, but I'm inclined to be open if you are equally inclined to share your sources from links or journals privately to me preferably for sake of  keeping to the flow of topic here and more importantly so that my opinions after reviewing them outside the context of discussion are more open*. 

 

[* It is a truth universally ignored that people who read things on the Internet in the midst of arguments with people who disagree with them will never be truly open to even considering what the other side believes, and in turn will act in a way that will equally turn off the other side to disregard their view. So I prefer to read things alone when not caught in a heated discussion--much like the old days when we had to take  a few weeks off to write and receive letter and when a phone card to call a friend in Korea are both too long and too expensive to waste on knee-jerk responses and arguments so that reflection and introspection can actually happen.]

 

[** And yes: I wasted $30 in phone cards for a friend in the Korea in the 1990s after we exchanged angry letters with news clippings over the course of several months, which I use as my point of reference for avoiding online arguments.]

[Starjumper]

OK, it's conspiracy time !!! My wife told me that some famous psychic did a Tarot card reading for the year and got the Burning Tower, which ended up on the cover of a popular magazine; including the interpretation that this means the beginning of the end of 'The' church, or just 'the end'. Interesting coincidence, yes?

[joeblast]

4 minutes ago, Starjumper said:

OK, it's conspiracy time !!! My wife told me that some famous psychic did a Tarot card reading for the year and got the Burning Tower, which ended up on the cover of a popular magazine; including the interpretation that this means the beginning of the end of 'The' church, or just 'the end'. Interesting coincidence, yes?

"In the Land of the Yellow Vests a mighty fire will topple a Lady,
Then will the Orange Man in the West lay waste to another Alliance,
and out of ignorance the Hawk will turn into a Pigeon
and ignite the Apocalypse of the Yields."

Nostradamus, Quatrain 875

 

 

 

Personally, I'm hoping the apocalypse of the yields means the end of the central banks of the planet, but that could just be wishful thinking   Who knows, but I've contended for a little while now that if these threads of treason and human trafficking are fully pulled to their last, it will bring down the central banks.  Its just a matter of will they really do it?

Edited April 18, 2019 by joeblast

[Pilgrim]

Same roof for what was it 800 years and catches fire just now? Sniff, Sniff who was insuring that place.Sniff the payout trail and get your answer.

[Aetherous]

7 minutes ago, joeblast said:

"In the Land of the Yellow Vests a mighty fire will topple a Lady,
Then will the Orange Man in the West lay waste to another Alliance,
and out of ignorance the Hawk will turn into a Pigeon
and ignite the Apocalypse of the Yields."

Nostradamus, Quatrain 875

 

 

 

Personally, I'm hoping the apocalypse of the yields means the end of the central banks of the planet, but that could just be wishful thinking   Who knows, but I've contended for a little while now that if these threads of treason and human trafficking are fully pulled to their last, it will bring down the central banks.  Its just a matter of will they really do it?

 

You're joking with the quatrain, right?

[joeblast]

2 minutes ago, Aetherous said:

 

You're joking with the quatrain, right?

I didnt say I believed it, I'm just sayin....its kinda like buddhist patriarch nui neng saying in 1620 or some shit, that when the iron bird flies, buddhism goes to the west    who am I to say one way or another if Nostradamus said something that could perhaps apply to the present crazy times, and sum it up in a couple sentences or less   I just want to see the central banks of the planet crumble and their power gone from this planet forever

[Starjumper]

1 minute ago, joeblast said:

I just want to see the central banks of the planet crumble and their power gone from this planet forever

 

The only real problem with the world these days is that all the assassins are working for the bad guys.

[Starjumper]

That wasn't a joke, that was fact.

[Aetherous]

26 minutes ago, Starjumper said:

That wasn't a joke, that was fact.

 

It'd be nice if we could right the wrongs of the world.

[joeblast]

hm

 

so here's "the roof" inside before the fire

 

and here's after the fire

 

also after the fire

 

so it would appear that the roof was really to protect that concrete dome, and the inside of the place isnt as horrible as one would think.
 

Spoiler

 

and I guess its just some random fact that Michael I mean Michelle Obama was on a dinner cruise perfectly timed with a start and a view of the burning