Imprinting your desire on an atom

[silent thunder]

21 hours ago, welkin said:

In a recent podcast interview i watched, a scientist talked about how we may not be in control of anything that we do including our thoughts. It seems that the cell or atoms are already working with one another, killing weak ones, through evolution. All these small microscopic decisions may make up a macro decision which we believe we make.

 

I may be totally off on this. But that's how it resonated with me.

I hear you brother and I empathize with your sense of it.

 

I've rejected any notion of 'conscious choice' pretty much the whole of my adult life.

In my experience, humans do not make independent choices.  We respond to stimuli in predictable manners based on our behavioral models created between the ages of 0-7 and running in the unconcscious, then afterward we explain that unconscious response and apply some conscious control to it.

 

As I've experienced myself humans are compelled to action, or non action in response to stimuli, not based on some calculated consciously directed intentions.  Ask soldiers what happened when they reached out to save a buddy in battle and you'll constantly hear echoes of "I didn't think, I just did it."  or "I only thought about it when we were out of the shit." 

 

Stimulus, response, action.  Any choice occurs on the preconcscious level.  We apply standards and stories later.

 

By the time an action is in process, the motivational/behaviorally conditioned responses have long since unconsciously already been established and the action or non action promulgated.  Our 'decisions' to me in life are as predictable in nearly all circumstances as chemical reactions in a petry dish are...

 

After the response/action/non action, we then often analyze with the conscious mind and apply rationalizations couched in the language of "I chose to help that girl"  when the reality was, no conscious choice was made in the moment in response to stimuli, a compulsion to act or not rose and was carried out almost automatically. 

 

A girl fell and before thought was possible, I reached out and helped her... only afterward do I apply notions of conscious choice storylines in my estimation... this mainly I feel, give us some semblance and reinforce notions of illusory control in a great soup of energy knowns as absolute reality.

 

[silent thunder]

Robert Saltzman in his book The Ten Thousand Things describes the illusory notion of choice far better than I did for anyone inclined to look further.  It also addresses many core tenets of Taoism in a very accessible (to me) and direct manner as well as being filled with a selection of his photography.

[Dynasty]

9 hours ago, ilumairen said:

I would suggest three.. gut, heart, and the good old noodle.

 

Maybe even four then. What's that thing women are talking about when they say a man is thinking with his little head?

 

 

[welkin]

13 hours ago, Dynasty said:

I'm tracking. I remember pondering something like this a long time ago when every cell in my body was "screaming" for a cigarette.  I was imagining the withdrawals and cravings were the sum total of each cells need for the nicotine stimulation. 

 

 

There are two minds. One is known as the gut.  Gut instinct. Sort of a parallel process, but ultimately feeds into the overall mind.  But is it the intelligence of the gut bacteria, or something else? 

 

 

The gut bacteria has intelligence, but not sure if it's conscious.

 

to me though, conscious doesn't necessarily have to mean we need to make everything little thing about us conscious. I think it's more as simple as your conscious is your macro goal, decision. And it needs to rule over everything else, making sure everything else is working in alignment, but of course through freedom. So when everything else is working towards/with the conscious goal or philosophy, it doesn't have to be consciously doing it. It is unconscious micro actions working towards a conscious goal.

 

 

[welkin]

7 hours ago, silent thunder said:

I hear you brother and I empathize with your sense of it.

 

I've rejected any notion of 'conscious choice' pretty much the whole of my adult life.

In my experience, humans do not make independent choices.  We respond to stimuli in predictable manners based on our behavioral models created between the ages of 0-7 and running in the unconcscious, then afterward we explain that unconscious response and apply some conscious control to it.

 

As I've experienced myself humans are compelled to action, or non action in response to stimuli, not based on some calculated consciously directed intentions.  Ask soldiers what happened when they reached out to save a buddy in battle and you'll constantly hear echoes of "I didn't think, I just did it."  or "I only thought about it when we were out of the shit." 

 

Stimulus, response, action.  Any choice occurs on the preconcscious level.  We apply standards and stories later.

 

By the time an action is in process, the motivational/behaviorally conditioned responses have long since unconsciously already been established and the action or non action promulgated.  Our 'decisions' to me in life are as predictable in nearly all circumstances as chemical reactions in a petry dish are...

 

After the response/action/non action, we then often analyze with the conscious mind and apply rationalizations couched in the language of "I chose to help that girl"  when the reality was, no conscious choice was made in the moment in response to stimuli, a compulsion to act or not rose and was carried out almost automatically. 

 

A girl fell and before thought was possible, I reached out and helped her... only afterward do I apply notions of conscious choice storylines in my estimation... this mainly I feel, give us some semblance and reinforce notions of illusory control in a great soup of energy knowns as absolute reality.

 

 

in a sense, it is the idea of whether we are even conscious at all. Though my feelings and thinking conclude that consciousness does exist past the millions of micro decisions.

 

In hypnotherapy sometimes they rewire your brain by doing exercises in which you think about your past before birth, right after birth, and childhood. This is just on the thinking level. But I think that's why it's important to go back to early childhood and see where a lot of these unconscious behaviors came from. Thinking, posture, expression, etc. etc. I like doing this through the physical body. If one really analyzes, we can discover a lot of very fine details in the posture of our face, muscles in every part of the body. in another thread it was mentioned to try remembering a memory in relation to specific parts of the body, and letting it go just as you free that posture.

 

And you look at family history, and you realize..  all this posture, muscle tensions, expressions. It comes not only from what we observe while we grow up, but it's also engrained in our genes.

 

To go back and recreate posture, thinking, emotions is to try to create a 'new life'. It's almost like you get rid of all the sufferings our families have. and when we have our own kids, they can truly start with a slightly freerer perspective on multiple levels.

 

Obviously easier said than done.

[manitou]

10 hours ago, welkin said:

 

If one really analyzes, we can discover a lot of very fine details in the posture of our face, muscles in every part of the body.

 

 

Every once in a while I'll do something that I just know I adapted from somebody else.  Like a facial expression, or an expression - so much so that I can actually see a flash of the face of the person I got it from.  I have come to accept the fact that I am a composite of everybody else.