If Shen becomes Qi, how does Qi become Jing?

[Phoenix3]

And where does the conversion of Qi to Jing take place?

 

I think Jing seems to have a function of storage of energy (Qi?) but where is Jing found? 

 

Thanks

[Sebastian]

58 minutes ago, Earl Grey said:

qi is analagous to the money in your wallet and jing is the money in your savings account.

 

Love that analogy.... Did you come up with it yourself ? It's on the mark. Anyways, it had me thinking about what is shen along the same line of thinking.

 

I'll venture a bad guess.... Shen is analogous to money in your bitcoin account ... Anyone have a better suggestion ?

 

EDIT, how about : Shen is your stock in Divine Inc ?

Edited April 21, 2019 by Sebastian

[voidisyinyang]

On 4/19/2019 at 2:33 PM, Phoenix3 said:

And where does the conversion of Qi to Jing take place?

 

I think Jing seems to have a function of storage of energy (Qi?) but where is Jing found? 

 

Thanks

 

There's different types of qi. So Shen is from Yuan Qi which then has within it the potential of Yuan Shen and Yuan Jing - as Yuan that means that are both primordial and formless. So the Yuan Shen is virtual photons (accessed by turning the light around in meditation).

 

So then in our womb state - there is a unification of the shen, qi and jing but when the first breath is taken, this causes the pericardium to change its structure at the heart. So then the Lung as Yang Qi energy of the Po Soul then continues to develop the Jing energy as potential hormonal energy. But this energy is still activated by the Yuan Qi - it is just that the Hun Soul also develops as our left-brain dominant conscious mind (thinking with planning based on the lower emotional blockages).

 

So the Hun and Po souls are both "yin shen" - and the yang shen is then a projection from our yin qi of our thinking mind - the left brain consciousness. This is why in deep dreamless sleep we access the Yuan Qi again when we experience no space, no time and no body and no mind.

 

So then the generative fluid is yin jing whereas the yin qi is yang jing - and so the yin qi is what powers the yin shen but with our left brain dominance we are unaware that our spirit as yin shen also creates our yang shen (as our awareness of spacetime - as a holographic reality).

 

So after the first breath - we slowly begin to lose the heart-mind unification with our body - via the central channel - and so the Hun shen develops as left brain dominance and the Po soul develops as subconscious energy based on the subconscious "yang qi." So that yang qi is also the subconscious yin shen. If we turn the "yin shen" around into the Yuan Shen as virtual photons - then we can restore the jing - since matter is created from virtual photons. So Daoist Master Wang Liping says it takes 6 hours of full lotus meditation a day (with the left leg on top, and the eyes closed - without missing ONE day - for 1 year) - to restore the yuan jing from a middle age man to a 16 year old man.

 

So then what happens normally is our Hun Soul causes the separation of the Shen and Qi - and this sends a signal to the Yuan Qi to then create yin jing (generative fluid) from the yang qi - via the subconscious yin shen. So this happens via biophotonic signals of the Yang Shen interacting with the holographic external world - that then triggers - at the speed of light - the pineal gland Yuan Qi to send a signal to the Kidney yang qi (yin shen) - to then create more yin qi (yang jing). So then as this process is activated a person then feels blissful heat in the stomach as the yang jing and yin qi manifests - this is considered "being in love" - as the dopamine increases. And then for the male - since that INITIAL external Hun Soul signal was activated or triggered - that "pre-sets" the yang qi to get lost as the biophoton signal causes a dilation of the gate of mortality - at the genital duct.

 

So then that subconscious process has to be CONSCIOUSLY reversed - and this can only be done through Quick Fire training - more standing active exercise with deep reverse breathing - to then push the adrenal glands to the sympathetic extreme (thereby reversing the genital gate trigger - the dilation of the genital gate via the prostate). And through the extreme sympathetic then a dialectical opposite PARAsympathetic extreme of the vagus nerve is activated - this then charges up the yang qi again - and sends it back up to the skull. Then through PURIFICATION via the Emptiness via turning the light around - the Yuan Shen that activates the yang shen as a spactime vortex - through the Yuan Qi - then this causes the qi to merge with the shen by rolling the eyes around.

 

So once the yang qi and yin shen mixes with the yin qi and yang shen (the copulation of the dragon and tiger) then this builds up in the brain as a pressure that overflows out of the sinus cavity as charged up cerebral spinal fluid (the white tiger) - that is then swallowed now as Yuan Qi that is stored in the lower tan t'ien.  So the trick is that the Energy is very close to the COMBUSTION source - so the Yuan Qi is actually the "process" of Fire under Water - the Shen under the Jing - and so it can just as easily be reversed - through the above initial Hun soul subconscious visual trigger (or just a spirit-qi interaction with another person, etc.).

 

So that is why if a person wants to build up their qi - then they have to close off the lower tan t'ien - and this is why the Jing is considered to be the stored up qi in that sense - but in reality it has to be via the middle Tan T'ien as a full interaction with the Yuan Qi of the Universe - in order to really restore the Yuan Jing.

[exorcist_1699]

On primordial level or in prenatal state, Jing , Qi and Shen is  unitary, so we call them yuan (meta or original )-jing  yuan-qi,  yuan-shen. After  birth, ie, our having shifted  to breathe by using the lung, they  split , but connected;  after adolescence, they further split, but still related;  and up to our becoming 30 something, they start to drain away.

 

To most of us , without enough  jing,  we  can't sense qi; this is why old people can't "initalize"  qi so easily and likely not believe in it . However, in some cases , they may understand it better than young people because they feel qi , with jing embodied, in its distorted and deficient forms clearer :  Deficient jing makes their eyesight deteriorate or  ankles ache ( lack of jing),  unable to work long hours ( lack of qi ) and  lose their memory ( lack of shen )easier . Although medical qigong  holds back the becoming deficient qi , it is Taoist alchemy that reverses it, and makes the split jing ,qi, shen united again.

The key is an ability to form that Mind or Shen  ,that empty and  consolidated mind .

 

It is said that "神凝則精聚 " ("While the Mind consolidated  , jing also gathers ") , that means, you not only can alleviate back pain or arthritis by some needles  , but  cure it thoroughly through applying a Mind .

 

Edited April 23, 2019 by exorcist_1699

[voidisyinyang]

14 minutes ago, exorcist_1699 said:

On primordial level or in prenatal state, Jing , Qi , Shen is  unitary, it is why we call them yuan (meta or original )-jing  yuan-qi,  yuan-shen. After  birth, ie, our having shifted  to breath by using the lung, they  split , but connected;  after adolescence, they further split, but still related;  

 

To most of us , without enough  jing, we  can't sense qi; this is why old people can't "initalize"  qi so easily and likely not believe in it . However, in some cases , they may understand it better than young people because they feel qi , with jing embodied, in its distorted and deficient forms clearer :  Deficient jing makes their eyesight deteriorate or  ankle ache ( lack of jing), unable to work long time ( lack of qi ) and  lose their memory ( lack of shen )easier . Although medical qigong  holds back the becoming deficient qi , it is Taoist alchemy that reverses it, and makes the split jing ,qi, shen united again.

The key is an ability to form that Mind or Shen  ,that empty and  consolidated mind .

 

It is said that "神凝則精聚 " ("While the Mind consolidated  , jing also gathers ") , that means, you not only can alleviate back pain or arthritis by some needles  , but  cure it thoroughly through a Mind .

 

 

yes in Zhong Gong - this is called "superluminal yin matter" as the "Golden Key."

 

Qigong master Yan Xin calls it the "virtual information field."

Edited April 23, 2019 by voidisyinyang

[Old Student]

On 4/21/2019 at 3:51 AM, Earl Grey said:

Depends on the system. For example, in Flying Phoenix from Emeishan, there’s no discussion on this because it’s totally different qi, whereas in Sleeping Qigong from Huashan, qi is analagous to the money in your wallet and jing is the money in your savings account.There are common parallels but eventually one finds that they are not necessarily universal answers.

Quick question:  You said you got this analogy from a Bagua and  liuhebafa/yiquan instructors.  Was it the jing that gets converted to qi or was it the jing that is stored in the bones, in the marrow?

[Old Student]

1 minute ago, Earl Grey said:

Beats me, we just practice and don't think about it after a while because the mind and too much complication affects the natural practice at a certain point. Thinking too much actually depletes jing I've once heard because of the stress it causes and it also affects flow of qi because mind intent affects direction of qi. 

Do you speak Chinese?  The reason I ask is because I studied liuhebafa with John Li, and he always told us that the jing (he spoke Cantonese or Taishan so he called it geng) sinks into the bones and is stored there.  It's also in the Five Word Song that it does.  The thing is, it's a different character from the jing that is related to fluids and gets converted to qi.  The one we heard about in liuhebafa classes is 勁 pronounced either jin or jing, the other is 精 pronounced jing, and meaning essence.

[Old Student]

9 minutes ago, Earl Grey said:

I speak intermediate Mandarin. 

 

Jin is from fajin, but is NOT the same as jing that you ask about that is stored in the bones.

The 2nd of the 8 methods is 骨 (bones).  The description is, 骨勁内斂。So I beg to differ.  It explicitly says "The jin is accumulated in the bones."

[Old Student]

I meant no offense.  And I don't know your lineage, I didn't question it, I'm quite new here.  I just want to clear up something that seems puzzling to me.  The Daoist texts are all about collecting and converting jing, the (for lack of a better word) internal boxing texts are all about storing something in the bones that is expressed when needed and makes the arms become "iron bars wrapped in cotton."  So it is a legitimate question to ask what is stored in the bones? Jin, or jing, or both?

[Old Student]

Ah. Inner teachings that cannot be revealed.  So be it.  I come from a tradition where my teacher wore a shirt and tie and was open to all.  When he died, all of sudden he went from Mr. to Master to Grand Master and his students dressed in silk clothing resembling Manchu dynastic dress, and arguments broke out within and without about lineages and lineage holders.  I was not a part of those fights, nor do I recognize many of those calling themselves master who were students of John Chung Li, I have always presumed this must be because they were at the Connecticut school, and I trained in Boston.  I respect what they do, I buy their books out of both curiosity and loyalty, but I have questions as to whether John Li intended such pretense.

 

I understand what you mean about people "who not only don't know what they are talking about, but post information that is completely wrong," but I really have practiced what I was taught for more than 40 years, I really did learn it from someone who knew the art very well, I really did go the route of learning Chinese language, painting, calligraphy, studying classical texts, and so forth. And I really did learn in an environment where there was no talk of inner teachings, secrets, or lineage and titles.  I do know what I'm talking about translating from the Five Word Song or the six combinations and eight methods texts, I really did take a whole senior level class in reading and translating Laozi and as a consequence (traditional teaching methods in China) at one time could recite it.

 

I would love to have discussions about fine points like the one I just raised in liuhebafa, I do have soft copy of the Five Word Song, but it won't work if there are new rules about lineage and title and inner rooms.  I will keep looking.

 

Thank you for your time.

[Miffymog]

Sorry Old Student, it seems as though Earl Grey has taken offence to your posts and is now cutting back his involvement on this website.

 

He is very knowledgeable and has contributed some very interesting posts indeed, this is also not the first time he has decided to step away from this site.

 

I would just like you to know that I did not find your posts unpleasant or rude, in fact, I feel they were quite respectful. 

[Old Student]

Thanks for that.

 

I did some leg work on this question I was asking.  The second  of the 8 methods is as I cited to Earl Grey.

 

23 hours ago, Old Student said:

The 2nd of the 8 methods is 骨 (bones).  The description is, 骨勁内斂。So I beg to differ.  It explicitly says "The jin is accumulated in the bones."

 

The reason I had mentioned that there might be confusion between the two terms is that 勁 really is often pronounced jing -- actually it is listed that way in Matthews (not to get too down in the weeds on translation, Matthews for people who are unfamiliar is the dictionary when working with classical Chinese, even though it's Wade-Giles transliteration is now somewhat arcane).

 

But having done some work, now I see that this is not how both Jin and Jing (勁 , 精）end up with texts saying they are stored in the marrow.  Because we have the method above, Jin is stored (the 2nd method actually says "accumulated") in the marrow.  The Five Word Song says it is stored in making the body like a bow.  It's meaning as a character meaning energy actually derives from the energy stored in a bow so this can be both literal and metaphorical at the same time.

 

But I found the following in the Xiuzhen Tu (in the section about the Wei Lu):

故曰射九重鐡鼔乃上天之徑路也。

一名地軸神壺又名朝天嶺，一名龍虎穴，一名三叉骨。

腎内有金鼎，内外相通, 共三路上通夾脊，直透頂門，而上泥丸。

通一身之骨隨也。

(punctuation my own)

"It is said piercing the ninefold iron drum thus is the road up to upper heaven.

one is called the Shen axis pot, also called the mountain ridge facing heaven (or the ritual to heaven at the mountain ridge), one is called the dragon tiger cave, one is called the three pronged bone.

In the kidneys is a golden cauldron (ding), inside and outside are passed through, all these three roads go up through the Jia Ji, then penetrating through the Ding Men, and thus climb to the Ni wan.

[The Pure (Yuan) Qi] then goes to the bone marrow of the whole body.

 

Sorry for some rough places, but the supplied translation gets a few thing very strange.

 

So this is storage in the bone marrow which arrives there as Purest Yuan Qi (because that is what is needed to pierce the ninefold drum).  Is this Jing 精 upon storage?  Or is this yet another alchemical component stored in the bone marrow?

 

[Taoist Texts]

14 hours ago, Old Student said:

The description is, 骨勁内斂。So I beg to differ.  It explicitly says "The jin is accumulated in the bones."

it is wrong reading 骨勁=bone strength

"bone strength accumulates inside"

 

Quote

So this is storage in the bone marrow which arrives there as Purest Yuan Qi (because that is what is needed to pierce the ninefold drum).  Is this Jing 精 upon storage?

No, it is yuan qi. Different from jing.

[Old Student]

8 hours ago, Taoist Texts said:

it is wrong reading 骨勁=bone strength

"bone strength accumulates inside"

I accept your correction with regards to parts of speech, in which case it is actually "bone energy". In which case it is definitely pronounced jing.  勁 is prononced jing when it means energy (which is what it means), and jin when it is used as a substitute for 劤 meaning force. Thank you, that clarifies things.

 

8 hours ago, Taoist Texts said:

No, it is yuan qi. Different from jing.

Thank you.

Do you have any text in which jing is stored in bone marrow? Or are there only 勁 and 純陽炁?

[Taoist Texts]

3 hours ago, Old Student said:

Do you have any text in which jing is stored in bone marrow?

Not of the top of my head. But interestingly, they say  the jing does it on its own, apparently it is its job to create marrow and to stay stored there as marrow

 

Jing (Essence) - Vital Substances in Chinese Medicine - Sacred Lotus

Stored in the Kidneys but has fluid nature and circulates all over the body, ... Marrow produces bone marrow

 

The Five Yin organs(zang organs) - Shen Nong

Stored in the kidneys, Jing is the substance responsible for producing bone marrow, which in turn, creates and supports bone growth. ... The kidneys play a role in transforming stored Jing into blood. If Jing and blood are abundant, the hair will appear bright, shiny and healthy.

 

Jing (Chinese medicine) - Wikipedia

Jīng is the Chinese word for "essence", specifically kidney essence. Along with qì and shén, it is ... According to tradition, Jīng is stored in the kidneys and is the most dense physical matter within ... is inaccurate; the jīng circulates through the eight extraordinary vessels and creates marrow

[Old Student]

12 hours ago, Earl Grey said:

Here are videos of him doing his form and demonstrating some fajin.

Thanks, I hadn't seen the first video before, it has some expressions I had to learn on my own, glad to see them there.

[Desmonddf]

On 19/04/2019 at 4:33 PM, Phoenix3 said:

And where does the conversion of Qi to Jing take place?

 

I think Jing seems to have a function of storage of energy (Qi?) but where is Jing found? 

 

Thanks

 

By a TCM perspective:

 

Qi becomes Jing after circulating in the body. It first circulates as Ying Qi in the Xue (togheter with the physical blood), from the Blood it goes to the Channels, and from the Channels it arrives in the Eight Extraordinary Vessels as post-natal Jing. There it is stored and used in place of pre-natal Jing when we need it, increasing longevity (although that's not enough to increase one's lifespan).

 

Wei Qi (yang qi) does not circulate much inside the body (it tends to go to the outside) and does not become post-heaven Jing. Only Ying Qi does so.

 

I do not know of a description of post-natal Jing creating marrow, but pre-natal Jing is said to indeed be the source of all forms of marrow, including the nervous system and the brain (sea of marrow). Through the marrow physical blood is produced, and it connects with the spiritual blood (Xue) which is produced in the heart... and then with ying qi once it is produced in the kidneys.