Zork Posted April 21, 2019 I mean seriously? Inner alchemy is just a fragment of taoist doctrines. Why do people care so much? Are they ready? Most people don't know what they are talking about and very few even practice it. The way I see it only 1 in a million are ready for that. So really, why there is so much talk about this practice? 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Mudfoot Posted April 21, 2019 35 minutes ago, Zork said: The way I see it only 1 in a million are ready for that. And we are all on the bums 🤪 3 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Zork Posted April 21, 2019 30 minutes ago, Earl Grey said: Most people feel entitled to it but don’t do what it takes to deserve it. Power draws many people their way and it’s also a huge market as the scammers and opportunists realized. I agree but this begs the question: Are the "potential" immortals aware of what they are pursuing? Or are they blinded by a pursuit of power in any form? 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Taoist Texts Posted April 21, 2019 2 hours ago, Zork said: Inner alchemy is just a fragment of taoist doctrines. you must have mastered all of them 2 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Zork Posted April 21, 2019 51 minutes ago, Taoist Texts said: you must have mastered all of them This is your opinion based on your THEORITICAL knowledge of internal alchemy? Should i care since you have no idea about it's application? 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
silent thunder Posted April 21, 2019 wind blows leaves about. sage occupies the center. no disturbances. 3 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Aetherous Posted April 21, 2019 Because external alchemy is too much work! 2 2 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ilumairen Posted April 21, 2019 29 minutes ago, Aetherous said: Because external alchemy is too much work! Choosing your post because I know and trust you. Sometimes internal things occur, and they're curious happenings. There are people here with information I don't have, and yes, some people with lots of words and aspirations.. Sometimes I wonder about the power seekers, and then I settle back into it really doesn't matter.. either a foundation is there or it isn't. 2 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ilumairen Posted April 21, 2019 7 hours ago, Zork said: I agree but this begs the question: Are the "potential" immortals aware of what they are pursuing? Or are they blinded by a pursuit of power in any form? Perhaps it would be simplest to suggest that the people who feel lacking in power will seek what they feel to be lacking? 2 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Zork Posted April 21, 2019 17 minutes ago, ilumairen said: Perhaps it would be simplest to suggest that the people who feel lacking in power will seek what they feel to be lacking? Sure. I agree but power always comes at a cost. Who among the wannabe immortals is willing to pay it? Furthermore it seems that people who seek power like that are the least suitable to receive it. 2 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Starjumper Posted April 21, 2019 8 hours ago, Zork said: I agree but this begs the question: Are the "potential" immortals aware of what they are pursuing? Or are they blinded by a pursuit of power in any form? It is far better if the potential immortal has no idea what they are getting in to, or even know how advanced their teacher is, until later after he is gone and there is no one else. Really, the only people who get anywhere are those that enjoy the exercises and enjoy the feeling of soaking with chi, hedonistic chi junkies. 15 minutes ago, ilumairen said: Perhaps it would be simplest to suggest that the people who feel lacking in power will seek what they feel to be lacking? True, but when it is due to lack of emotional power due to a broken spirit ... doesn't add up. People with a warrior spirit, which is more about ethics than fighting, are perfectly fine to cultivate power to kill some bad guy; and the other guy is always the bad guy, isn't he? We selfs are always the good guy, right? At least that's the attitude one must have in order to be a warrior - which is why the game of ethics is important. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Zork Posted April 21, 2019 3 minutes ago, Starjumper said: It is far better if the potential immortal has no idea what they are getting in to, or even know how advanced their teacher is, until later after he is gone and there is no one else. All right but i cannot fail but see a paradox by power seekers who do not understand what exactly they are in for. We are talking about a non perceivable end which is embedded in myth and misconceptions. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Starjumper Posted April 21, 2019 16 minutes ago, Zork said: All right but i cannot fail but see a paradox by power seekers who do not understand what exactly they are in for. Power seekers are turned away or forced out so that paradox doesn't really come into play I think. 16 minutes ago, Zork said: We are talking about a non perceivable end which is embedded in myth and misconceptions. and that is exactly why it is best if they don't know. It is because the good people have been brainwashed into thinking such things don't exist and would shy away from it. Instead they get to discover them the hard way, that is the only way. So you can see the problem I'm creating for myself by writing that book. 4 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Armando Posted April 21, 2019 1 hour ago, ilumairen said: Perhaps it would be simplest to suggest that the people who feel lacking in power will seek what they feel to be lacking? I agree. And there is a misconception among spiritually minded people that seeking or having power is a bad thing. It is not, if the power is used with wisdom and compassion. 2 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Aetherous Posted April 21, 2019 1 hour ago, ilumairen said: Choosing your post because I know and trust you. Sometimes internal things occur, and they're curious happenings. There are people here with information I don't have, and yes, some people with lots of words and aspirations.. Sometimes I wonder about the power seekers, and then I settle back into it really doesn't matter.. either a foundation is there or it isn't. Please say more if you want. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Starjumper Posted April 21, 2019 45 minutes ago, Starjumper said: Instead they get to discover them the hard way, that is the only way. Well not the only way, but it beats whatever is in second place. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Aetherous Posted April 21, 2019 1 hour ago, Starjumper said: People with a warrior spirit, which is more about ethics than fighting, are perfectly fine to cultivate power to kill some bad guy; and the other guy is always the bad guy, isn't he? We selfs are always the good guy, right? At least that's the attitude one must have in order to be a warrior - which is why the game of ethics is important. That's our instinctual reaction - the main character (ourselves) is always the one to root for. There's something about human psychology, for instance, if we watch a movie or read a book where the bad guy/antihero is the main character, the one we tend to project ourselves onto, we can find ourselves hoping that they don't get caught. Considering this aspect of our nature, perhaps it's helpful to view ourselves not from the first person perspective, but as best we can from the third person perspective, in an equal way to any other "character". Then we might have greater insight into ourselves. This is going beyond neidan discussion - but I think that in order to actually become good, before anything else we have to be super clear about the ways in which we're not good. The bad person believes they're good, the good person knows the ways in which they're bad. ... Also - does neidan really have anything to do with "power"? 4 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Pilgrim Posted April 21, 2019 A question about the “Power Seekers” in these Daoist traditions. Are these the people who perceive very little to nothing of Chi, I ask this because I have observed this in Kriya. Those who can not feel prana = Chi can not effectively practice Kriya yet believing practice for decades to no avail and jump to things like Wim Hoff to get a quick junk food fix. Is this the same character that is being discussed here? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Zork Posted April 21, 2019 Probably the confusion derives from the way IA is served to laymen. Most people think about immortality and imagine... whatever the *bleep* they imagine. I still don't get answers on why there is so much emphasis on this aspect of the internal arts. There is a whole mountain to climb to get there in the first place. 2 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Mudfoot Posted April 21, 2019 29 minutes ago, Zork said: I still don't get answers on why there is so much emphasis on this aspect of the internal arts. There is a whole mountain to climb to get there in the first place. Isn't that part of the answer. It is "the best", the most advanced, the most.... So why not the most desirable? And who wouldn't like to take short cuts? 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Zork Posted April 21, 2019 (edited) 37 minutes ago, Mudfoot said: Isn't that part of the answer. It is "the best", the most advanced, the most.... So why not the most desirable? And who wouldn't like to take short cuts? It is also the most restrictive. The more power you get the less you are able to use it due to karmic constraints. So yes it is the most desirable (by who?) but people have no idea what the are getting into when choosing this path. Imho only the misinformed would choose this path. The requirements of character and mental plus spiritual qualities are so high that people are mostly predestined whether they will follow this path or not. Edited April 21, 2019 by Zork 1 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Mudfoot Posted April 21, 2019 23 minutes ago, Zork said: The requirements of character and mental plus spiritual qualities are so high that people are mostly predestined whether they will follow this path or not. And again, those predestined choose to post on forums like this. On the other hand, trying to follow a path and succeding following it to some kind of goal is not the same thing. 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Zork Posted April 21, 2019 4 minutes ago, Mudfoot said: And again, those predestined choose to post on forums like this. On the other hand, trying to follow a path and succeding following it to some kind of goal is not the same thing. There are those that talk the path and those who walk the path. As the zen saying goes "the winner (of the archery tournament) will be the one who aims at the target not at the prize" 2 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Mudfoot Posted April 21, 2019 16 minutes ago, Zork said: There are those that talk the path and those who walk the path. Yes, but how do you tell the difference? And how do you tell the "real" Nei Dan from that which is not? I am sure many here have quite a few books describing a wide variety of methods called Nei Dan/Taoist internal alchemy, or have been seing teachers teaching it. So, what is good and what is (perhaps good but) not Nei Dan. You seems to have the answers. I am sure they would be useful for all persons searching through the Nei Dan jungle. 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Zork Posted April 21, 2019 18 minutes ago, Mudfoot said: Yes, but how do you tell the difference? And how do you tell the "real" Nei Dan from that which is not? You can't. The frauds don't have orbit and some people can sense it. Having it on the other hand doesn't imply ability in neidan. 21 minutes ago, Mudfoot said: You seems to have the answers. What is the point of this subtle attack? Nobody has all the answers. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
