MCO help needed

[Sebastian]

I understand your way of thinking. If you go to their website right now, it actually says "ancient Qigong reinvented' which is in line with what you are saying. 

 

But it's hard to discount as a system when you meet the Master in person. His energy is sublime and he never leaves you the same. It's also hard to discount as a system when you see the countless healing testimonies. You can always point to a few cases of deviations here and there and then extrapolate that all visualizations or modern systems like this are wrong. Maybe the classical way had much lower rates of deviation, it's very possible.

 

But I would venture the thought that SFQ is doing a lot more good than bad as a whole, and has safety measures built in. For example, some classical Taoist lineages focus on the LDT exclusively as their practice, until it creates a hot ball of energy that opens the MCO. Master Lin didn't chose that approach in his system because it is dangerous without a Master guiding you. What's dangerous exactly ? The nature of the energy. Hot and fiery Qi that can rip through organs and channels if you don't know what you are doing. 

 

Starting folks out with the MCO sounds ridiculous to almost all traditional lineages. But the thing is, when you don't have a lot of Qi, how are you going to hurt yourself ? That's the approach that SFQ takes. Start very small with what you have, slowly build and circulate. The MCO of SFQ is deceptive because it is nothing like the real "alchemical" MCO. It just borrows the name, but it is really a modern invention, a completely new meditation. It will release blockages along the front of back channels by connecting you to an external energy source and using the power of intent, music and sound. It is a therapeutic meditation basically, it is not the MCO. To open the real MCO you need Dantian development, there is no shortcut, or any other way to do it. Yet, you also can't say that doing the SFQ MCO won't eventually kick start the real MCO, because it greatly builds your LDT too.

 

I know the Master has put in so much thought into the system, it's really something. And it comes from a deep understanding of how the Universe works, of energetics, and actually seeing the results of the various meditations and Qigong forms through third eye vision. But the system itself is only a few decades old, so I can totally understand people who prefer to chose time tested lineages and traditions. It's just a matter of resonance. SFQ is a healing Qigong that appears to be quite new-agey, but the more dig, the more you appreciate its design and wisdom.

 

 

 

[freeform]

19 minutes ago, freeform said:

A master projecting Qi is a different thing altogether. It’s often not a pretty sight either 

 

 

 

it’s a pretty visceral thing - no imagination required

 

 

[freeform]

21 minutes ago, Sebastian said:

I know the Master has put in so much thought into the system

 

I really mean no disrespect. I try to choose my words carefully because I don’t want to be rude. I’m just talking of a different approach. What I call the ‘classical’ approach to spiritual cultivation. That’s what I’m most interested in. It’s not gentle or easy and not great for healing either. But it is the crowning achievement of the Daoist internal arts - which is what I’m interested in.

 

I’ve met lots of different teachers. I’ve gotten quite good at being able to discern their level of skill and virtue quite quickly. I think Chunyi Lin is just fine - as I said, if my grandma, who I love very much, decided to do Qigong I would much rather she learn from Chunyi than most other teachers. There are many famous teachers I’d tell her to stay away from.

 

If she wanted the deep spiritual transformations that are a part of the Daoist path, I’d first try to dissuade her - explaining the sacrifice, effort and time required, the amount of discomfort, discipline, patience and determination needed etc... If she still wanted it then I’d direct her well away from any modern discipline.

 

The issue with visualisation is that when someone is looking for the classical spiritual cultivation, they tend to be slightly obsessive and overdo it. Too much intense visualisation, especially when combined with strong focus and done regularly over period of time will always cause issues - there’s just no way round it.

 

It’ll burn up all your Yin and create the issues that I talked about in previous posts. For most people, who are not obsessive and intense like some of us () visualisation will be just fine and quite relaxing, and combined with some mild Qi transmission from the teacher will be quite healing and soothing - which is why I wouldn’t mind sending my grandma in to do it

 

 

Edited April 26, 2019 by freeform

[silent thunder]

Thank you for this topic and in particular thank you @freeform

Your choice of words have been settling through me for a few days now.

There is some discomfort with some of it, which seems a good sign lately.

 

For some time now, I've been unable to engage in any of my old forms.

Yet upon reading, rereading and allowing this conversation to settle...

I sense the potential to re-engage with a degree of you and your teachers filtered perspective.

 

I'm curious, what lineage he teaches from?

 

your sharing reminded me of this thought that arose to me, shortly before I needed to walk away from all formal 'practice'.

 

muddiest waters

left undisturbed by process

rest in clarity

 

Perhaps mind is quieting enough for me to approach again... perhaps sung is settling.

 

anyway... deep thanks that you and all involved take their time to share here.

I often delete my posts instead of publish them, for every one I publish, many are deleted as unworthy, useless.

Deeply grateful you all chose to share here.  Great benefit arises from unlikely places these days, places i used to overlook.

 

[silent thunder]

Perhaps I reengage with forms, not to achieve something desired, or lose something unwanted...

but simply to experience and 'be with it'.

[Sebastian]

Hahaha Freeform. I'm sure Chunyi would like to meet her, he enjoys teaching grandmas. And I know you mean no disrespect, you are just sharing your approach, I appreciate it. I also appreciate discussion as it helps us flesh out our understandings. Anyways, that's one thing I always appreciated from Chunyi at events is that he makes no distinctions between the ages of people, or where they are at spiritually. He often spends more time with the older folks and teaches them relentlessly. He will never reject someone because their health is too poor or they have "bad energy". He's not like that. And I appreciate him for that. 

 

By the way, like silent thunder, I appreciate reading Freeform's posts too Good advice in them, that I can use for myself too.

Edited April 27, 2019 by Sebastian

[KuroShiro]

5 hours ago, freeform said:

In the Longmen tradition there is a lot of Ping Heng Gong... which is a sort of ‘exchanging’ of Qi with your environment. But really it’s not the case that you give or receive an ‘amount’ of Qi.

 

What happens is that you can harmonise your Qi with something in the environment (usually trees in Ping Heng Gong)... sometimes you’ll feel ‘energised’ like you ‘received’ Qi and sometimes you’ll feel tired and drained like you’ve ‘given’ Qi. But what happens is a kind of harmonisation to the quality of Qi in you and the tree and the general environmental conditions. Qi in this context is a kind of ‘transformative information’ not so much a substance.

 

Are you saying that it's impossible to receive an ‘amount’ of Qi from Nature?

 

 

5 hours ago, freeform said:

Giving and receiving Qi is again an over-simplification. It doesn’t really work like that as Qi in that context isn’t a substance.

 

5 hours ago, freeform said:

A master projecting Qi is a different thing altogether. It’s often not a pretty sight either 

 

Could you please clarify this? Are you saying that Qi is a substance in the context of a master projecting Qi? I didn't make any distinctions regarding masters or students but of course masters are more interesting/higher level.

 

 

5 hours ago, freeform said:

Incidentally - you don’t do this with people because you’re full of pathogens that you’ll be transferring into people (unless you’ve fully purified yourself... which generally takes at least 10yrs of diligent practice).

 

Also regarding what I asked above. If you're transferring pathogens into people doesn't that mean that they are receiving your Qi?

 

Thanks.

 

[Sebastian]

Btw, looking at this more, it seems the OP first experienced these issues 5 years ago and practiced Flying Phoenix Qigong since then for a few years, with some Pingshuia thrown in if you look at the post history.

 

Quote

 

Posted March 27, 2014

Hey guys i need some help,Whenever i meditate or do breathing exercises then i experience a painful energy movement late at night around 1:00 am.I feel very hot energy moving on the right side of my spine on the outside reaching right side of neck and head( right hemisphere) and finally right side of face.I dont know which channel is it? I thought it was the governing channel but the governing channel runs on the mid of the spine (outside) not the left or right.Is it the right vagus nerve? or some thing else and why it only runs on the right and not the left side? And how can i activate the left side? And why is this energy so hot,How can i cool it? Anybody experienced the same?

So it doesn't seem like he tried Master Lin's MCO in 2019 for the first time and immediately experienced issues. It seems like the opposite in fact, he's trying to use the SFQ MCO as a way to get the Qi back in the correct channel.

 

Anyways, I'm sorry you've had this for so long Awareness rules. I stand by my advice to get a healing from Master Lin or Jim Nance but it may require repeat sessions since you've had this for so long. I would also highly recommend Brion Beller who you can email directly at brddog822 at aol.com. You can email him your concern, he is very responsive and detailed in his answers, and his fee is also comparatively lower. His fee is $75 and he often spends one hour on you, he's from Michael Lomax's stillness movement lineage. All these Masters have third eyes open so can help you in ways a Western doctor never could, especially for these channel issues.

 

If you want to practice SFQ then it's good to try the two Masters above, or go to an event and spend time with Master Lin. The strong Qi fields at events can really remove major blockages in a lot of people.  If you really experienced this as a side-effect of doing the SFQ small universe, then email them directly and explain the situation. Support at springforestqigong dot com. I'm sure they'll help you out or refer you to a Master of the system. 

 

Hope this helps

[freeform]

3 hours ago, Sebastian said:

it seems the OP first experienced these issues 5 years ago

 

OP needs to stop all internal practice. Meditation, Qigong - everything. Any internal focus will drive this reversal deeper.

 

Then focus on external physical exercise. This will move the Qi from the deeper channels out to the periphery.

 

And get some help as advised above. But don’t do any internal work for a long while (at least a year). Even if someone else suggests it. This is fixable

[freeform]

16 hours ago, silent thunder said:

your sharing reminded me of this thought that arose to me, shortly before I needed to walk away from all formal 'practice'.

 

muddiest waters

left undisturbed by process

rest in clarity

 

Yes I sense that the issues you’ve had has been due to too much ‘doing’ in your forms?

 

It’s a fine line - because in my training there is a lot of doing - but the doing is in setting up the conditions - then one needs to let go and allow the process to unfold by itself effortlessly.

 

This is both on macro and the micro scale.

 

For example on the micro scale - on something as simple as bending your knees - the idea is not to ‘do the action’ of bending the knees - but to release everything that’s holding the knees straight. This is a simple, mechanical example - but it applies everywhere (including the mind), and is quite fun (for us obsessive types) to find thousands of different ways to do each action without actually doing it

 

Anyway - thank you for your kind words. The reason I’m here is to share as much helpful information as I can, because I benefited from this place a lot over a decade ago. So I’m really glad it’s helpful.

 

 

[freeform]

12 hours ago, KuroShiro said:

Are you saying that it's impossible to receive an ‘amount’ of Qi from Nature?

 

In general yes. (There are exceptions of course). What feels like energising, adding energy is mostly just tuning your own Qi to a more ‘energised’ state.

 

The exceptions are at ‘exceptional’ places  Such as along powerful ‘dragon lines’... or in areas that have had high level masters doing their training over long periods. Then it could be adding an ‘amount’ as well as tuning Qi. But the ‘amount’ is proportionally quite small to what you can create inside.

 

12 hours ago, KuroShiro said:

Are you saying that Qi is a substance in the context of a master projecting Qi?

 

I was trying to avoid this discussion  - only because it gets quite tricky to explain.

 

In Asia there is a certain comfort with paradox. It’s literally built into the language so it’s just normal. Something we don’t have in the West.

 

When we discovered that light is both a particle and a wave, it turned the whole science world upside down. Trying to find a solution to the paradox got pretty desperate - ‘Maybe it’s a wavicle!?’ Now we have the whole field of Quantum Mechanics that came about as a result of this paradox.

 

So Qi is both a thing and not a thing. It’s both a substance and ‘process information’. It depends on the context which aspect is more apparent.

 

We generally engage with Qi in this ‘information’ state. Sometimes Qi can be condensed to such an extent that in every way it resembles a ‘substance’ (although it’s always both). The Qi of a master is usually built and condensed to such an extent that it moves like a thick, viscous fluid. That’s what it feels like inside. Then it can be transmitted in various forms outside the body.

 

12 hours ago, KuroShiro said:

If you're transferring pathogens into people doesn't that mean that they are receiving your Qi?

 

So with something like Reiki, both the sender and receiver open up and exchange Qi as information - and this includes the pathogenic information that’s always present in most people. 

 

Again pathogens aren't ‘things’ (but also are things ) - it’s information that has the qualities of ‘stagnation’ or ‘heat’ or ‘scattering’ etc etc. Even when focusing on benevolent things like compassion, the other information stuck in your ‘subconscious’ also takes a ride with the ‘compassion’ information.

 

Hope that clears things up a bit 😄

 

I also forgot to answer this:

17 hours ago, silent thunder said:

I'm curious, what lineage he teaches from?

 

It’s a specific line in the Longmen Pai. But there are many confused teachers in this lineage too. The key is to find a good teacher with both virtue and skill - and that’s really rare.

[silent thunder]

5 hours ago, freeform said:

 

Yes I sense that the issues you’ve had has been due to too much ‘doing’ in your forms?

I've come to a place where there is no mountain. 

 

All rigid forms of mind and body and practice have fallen away for the time being.

5 hours ago, freeform said:

 

It’s a fine line - because in my training there is a lot of doing - but the doing is in setting up the conditions - then one needs to let go and allow the process to unfold by itself effortlessly.

 

Nice description, as you say, there's a deal of paradox in these processes.  My body was healed thoroughly in the first two years of returning to this work and the forms laying the foundation and a fair amount of 'doing' were part of that.

 

The last years have seen the affects of the form work shift into the mental and ephemeral aspects of non-form, thought and no thought.  Release has been key and has gone farther than I ever expected.  During parts of this process any engagement of 'doing' became untenable and released of their own accord.

 

All process has shifted in the last 15 months to a deep resonant releasing on all levels... there is no mountain.

 

Though as all has steadily fallen away and an experience of that which remiains is what is here naturally of its own accord and not maintained by excess grabbing, doing, reaching, striving or seeking... I sense the mountain returning and this approach I've glimpsed through your words may be an indication to test the waters again.

 

a balance and a dance, wei wu wei... allowing action to flow unimpeded.

action without forcing... mind without rigid, or excessive mind.

 

5 hours ago, freeform said:

 

This is both on macro and the micro scale.

 

For example on the micro scale - on something as simple as bending your knees - the idea is not to ‘do the action’ of bending the knees - but to release everything that’s holding the knees straight. This is a simple, mechanical example - but it applies everywhere (including the mind), and is quite fun (for us obsessive types) to find thousands of different ways to do each action without actually doing it

I recall the period I used to work in sand on the beach, the obsessive fun and joy of playing with simple shifts of foot placement and angle in the sand, flattening and arching the soles and how that affected knees/hips and energetic flow lines to the body overall.  As you say, much fun for the obsessive types.

 

5 hours ago, freeform said:

 

Anyway - thank you for your kind words. The reason I’m here is to share as much helpful information as I can, because I benefited from this place a lot over a decade ago. So I’m really glad it’s helpful.

 

 

Absolutely.  Thanks again for sharing, it's appreciated.