government's trying to fuck you

[mantis]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S5xtjxRySbg...feature=related

 

watch all the videos

[MASTERforge]

[Pero]

Hmm that's not a very good example as smoking is bad for you.

[satyagraha]

It is pretty obvious the government is, and always was ####### us. what can we do? is the only valid question left...

[Pero]

Ask not what your government can do for you, but what you can do for your government!

 

Who said that?

 

(edit: or was that country instead of government? )

Edited February 19, 2008 by Pero

[Chanwu]

The london bombings were made by MI5, and the WTC/911 bombings was an inside job (probably done by the corporations that control the government, but the fact remains that it was an inside job, not some arab terrorists...).

 

Also USA has a prison where they allow torture. This no one seems to care about - this is because people stay ignorant about that it can happen to themselves. They don't associate themselves with the people they put there right now - arabs/muslims, "terrorists", etc... all who have not gotten a trial but put in there as scapegoats and get tortured until they sign confessions.

 

This has already evolved to something the US government use to rule people by fear. Anyone can be put into Guantanamo without a trial - solitary confinement for 3 years without possibility to see family or a lawyer etc.

Edited February 19, 2008 by Chanwu

[mantis]

did you even watch the videos or did you just decide to blabber? this has very little to do with 2012.

[MASTERforge]

I watched about 6 seconds of the youtube film and decided it was bollox.

 

Sounded too much like a bad plot for a sci-fi movie.

 

I don't think the government is that organsied to make perfect conspiracies. Simply their greed and the way they treat the international community is enough to put terrorists on our streets.

 

The people with the balls to blow themselves up are few and far between and are largely unconnected to any 'terroist organisation'. They are just disaffected muslims who cannot sit by as we conquer their countries and torture them all in the name of 'freedom' and 'democracy'.

 

Most 'terrorists' that are arrested in the U.K. are largely just terrorist sympathisers. They are not planning anything at all.

 

The recent arrest of a man in the UK reported that he taught his children to say things like 'death to blair, kill, kill'. He will now stand charge for terrorism.

 

What they fail to say is if he was actually planning an attack. So it is reasonable to say there is no evidence that he was planning an attack.

 

He was arrested on evidence from bugging his house.

 

So the secret services are bugging people and charging them with terrorism based on what they have said in their own home.

 

When I think about that happening in my own little world it becomes frightening.

 

If I was having a conversation with my father and said 'yeah, fuck bush, he's and asshole'. Then the secret services bash my door in and charge me with terrorism.

 

Then the media absolutely destroy me by publishing photos.

 

It would ruin my life for an off the cuff remark said in my own home.

 

I am sure there are many terrorist sympathisers here in the UK that are saying similar things but have no intention of acting upon them. If we are arresting them for 'thought crime' its just going to make the whole thing a lot worse.

[mantis]

so you're judging a movie that is longer than an hour on 6 seconds and yet you expect me to read your posts and pay attention to what you say

 

haha

 

no

[MASTERforge]

[satyagraha]

the link doesn't work for me, whats the name of the video?

[mantis]

"esoteric agenda"

[Chanwu]

Sorry, the start of the movie really made me uninterested but since you said it wasn't about that, I gave it a chance.

 

Everyone should do so - it has an important message... nothing new to me though, money rules the world.

 

The most important truth is that we are trapped within a society that is unnatural, made of only consumption and industrialisation.

[witch]

wait, wait, don't tell me...the answer is Ron Paul! Did I guess right? I've only watched the first clip.

 

There's a lot of half truths in what I've seen already. Don't get too fooled.

[satyagraha]

wait, wait, don't tell me...the answer is Ron Paul! Did I guess right? I've only watched the first clip.

 

There's a lot of half truths in what I've seen already. Don't get too fooled.

Ron paul is the only one so far to address international banking, The north American union, and the income tax. I think this is why he is different, all else is the same political package wrapped differently.

[Chanwu]

Changing president won't change ANYTHING in America, it only gives the false impression of a democracy when it's really a fascist state. Oh how America abuses "democracy" and "patriotism".

 

Patriotism is NOT defending the ones that rape the constitution and install a military torture prison camp. Read Naomi Wolf's book or the lectures on youtube and you will know what I am talking about here, she is a bright girl.

 

But ever since 911 I have opened my eyes to US politics and what they are doing. They create problems, then they suggest solutions that seem legit because of the problems they themselves created. Truly nefarious.

 

The videos "esoteric agenda" is from a certain Christian viewpoint, about the illuminate etc. There's other views of this group, of course, that have other claims.

 

But you can sort out the deep conspiracies without solidity in the videos and pick out good concepts and refreshing viewpoints on some things.

 

 

The propaganda goes so far so that people actually believe the lies the government spread, these lies are among others:

 

911 was done by foreign terrorists (no, it was the ones controlling the US government)

There were weapons of mass destructions in Iraq (again, no)

The london bombings were made because of Englands allegiance with the US (no, it was done by England)

 

And the result: they say we need fascist deperate measures like the patriot act etc etc. I could dig up looooads of laws that would make you scared, if you are unenlightened about these things.

Edited February 20, 2008 by Chanwu

[i_am_sam]

It is worth watching them all.

 

I knew there was a reason I always keep my forum user names lower case.

[WhiteTiger]

I just like the idea of the video... gets you to think and/or to ask questions. Which is where you start learn.

 

I haven't researched any of it yet and it was continuing to go around the Illuminoty (or however it was spelled) Which means the video has an agenda with it already... continued with a few other points throughout the whole video. Insisting on it... weather its good propaganda or just good news (whatever the hell that word is supposed to defined as)

Edited February 20, 2008 by WhiteTiger

[Taoist81]

[edited and snipped:

Changing president won't change ANYTHING in America, it only gives the false impression of a democracy when it's really a fascist state. Oh how America abuses "democracy" and "patriotism".

 

Patriotism is NOT defending the ones that rape the constitution and install a military torture prison camp. Read Naomi Wolf's book or the lectures on youtube and you will know what I am talking about here, she is a bright girl.

 

But ever since 911 I have opened my eyes to US politics and what they are doing. They create problems, then they suggest solutions that seem legit because of the problems they themselves created. Truly nefarious.

 

 

And the result: they say we need fascist deperate measures like the patriot act etc etc. I could dig up looooads of laws that would make you scared, if you are unenlightened about these things.

 

You actually have valid points here. After 911 the neocon "Bushites" took full advantage and expanded executive power far beyond the reaches that the founders of the US ever wanted to go near. There is rampant abuse of power and manipulation of language and emotions. The simple titling of a bill the "Patriot Act" makes it seem "unpatriotic" to vote against it. The "Terrorist Surveillance Bill", or as one Bum's avatar used to note the "Not eavesdropping, Freedom-listening" bill, makes it seem "pro-terror" to protect civil liberties. All these...very good points. But then you throw in this nonsense:

 

But you can sort out the deep conspiracies without solidity in the videos and pick out good concepts and refreshing viewpoints on some things.

The propaganda goes so far so that people actually believe the lies the government spread, these lies are among others

911 was done by foreign terrorists (no, it was the ones controlling the US government)

There were weapons of mass destructions in Iraq (again, no)

The london bombings were made because of Englands allegiance with the US (no, it was done by England)

 

See, this is where you get into the nuttiness that makes real progress damn-near impossible, because "the masses" confuse those who want real change with the conspiracy nuts that think that 9/11 was all planned with Bush (with Blair in his lap like a puppy), Chaney and Osama while they were sitting on the Grassy Knoll with Elvis, a Grey and a Reptilian. Non-government groups have thoroughly examined the evidence. Point by point the "the government did it" hypothesis has fallen in the dust of real investigation and science. Did the administration f#!k up? Sure. Were there things they could have done to prevent the disaster? Sure. Did they fly a missile into the pentagon and plant explosives in the Twin Towers? No. Not based on any real world evidence.

[Chanwu]

Oh but you see, Taoist81, you are swallowing the propaganda.

 

There's so many points to be made about 911 so I don't know where to begin.

 

See all in this serie(if you really want to know the truth):

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Odp1FO0Vmuw

 

There's so many circumstances that ignoring them is just silly.

 

There has been no unbiased investigations into 911, mind you, only one sponsored by the Government itself.

 

http://www.prisonplanet.com/articles/febru...red_patsies.htm

http://www.prisonplanet.com/911.html

 

I like this one, for example, what does "other purposes" mean? They create very dangerous laws, laws aren't meant to be "for other purposes" they are meant to be very specific!

http://thomas.loc.gov/home/gpoxmlc110/h1955_rfs.xml

And this then? http://www.news.com/Create-an-e-annoyance,..._3-6022491.html

 

 

Freedom of speech?

http://www.codebot.org/articles/?doc=9479

http://www.impeachbush.org/site/News2/1788...ws_iv_ctrl=1041

 

 

Patriot act?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/USA_PATRIOT_Act

 

Moving towards fascism and total dictatorship? Yes!

 

What does the German defense minister say?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cGNvmp7w85U

 

Loose change movie?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7E3oIbO0AWE

 

 

 

 

If you don't do your research, don't come tell me it's "just nutty conspiracy theories". It is not, it is based on fact. It is based on that the part of pentagon that got hit was under reconstruction and so no people died - plus they found no plane... and there were no damage done to the structure by the wings!!!! And that WTC7 fell down due to an obvious controlled demolition. It wasn't even hit for gods sake! It was even admitted that there were explosives in it and that they pulled the building!

 

And a controlled demolition of such a large building takes months in advance to plan!

[satyagraha]

Every government (with the exception of a small minority) in every age has been corrupt, there is no way to change this as long as there is a government (in my opinion), the only way out of this constant push and pull, is spirituality.

[Taoist81]

Every government (with the exception of a small minority) in every age has been corrupt, there is no way to change this as long as there is a government (in my opinion), the only way out of this constant push and pull, is spirituality.

 

Yep, power corrupts. But in this day and age, you kinda have to have some type of gov. Hence, registration as a Libertarian...small government all the way.

[Taoist81]

Oh but you see, Taoist81, you are swallowing the propaganda.

 

There's so many points to be made about 911 so I don't know where to begin.

 

See all in this serie(if you really want to know the truth):

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Odp1FO0Vmuw

 

There's so many circumstances that ignoring them is just silly.

 

There has been no unbiased investigations into 911, mind you, only one sponsored by the Government itself.

 

http://www.prisonplanet.com/articles/febru...red_patsies.htm

http://www.prisonplanet.com/911.html

 

I like this one, for example, what does "other purposes" mean? They create very dangerous laws, laws aren't meant to be "for other purposes" they are meant to be very specific!

http://thomas.loc.gov/home/gpoxmlc110/h1955_rfs.xml

And this then? http://www.news.com/Create-an-e-annoyance,..._3-6022491.html

Freedom of speech?

http://www.codebot.org/articles/?doc=9479

http://www.impeachbush.org/site/News2/1788...ws_iv_ctrl=1041

Patriot act?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/USA_PATRIOT_Act

 

Moving towards fascism and total dictatorship? Yes!

 

What does the German defense minister say?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cGNvmp7w85U

 

Loose change movie?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7E3oIbO0AWE

If you don't do your research, don't come tell me it's "just nutty conspiracy theories". It is not, it is based on fact. It is based on that the part of pentagon that got hit was under reconstruction and so no people died - plus they found no plane... and there were no damage done to the structure by the wings!!!! And that WTC7 fell down due to an obvious controlled demolition. It wasn't even hit for gods sake! It was even admitted that there were explosives in it and that they pulled the building!

 

And a controlled demolition of such a large building takes months in advance to plan!

 

No disagreement that the Patriot act and many other laws are greatly overreaching and abusive of power. However, just because they are taking advantage of (and abusing) the situation doesn't mean they did it. Yes there have been non-government looks at the evidence. Yes, the majority of the official story does stand. Most of what has likely been "covered up" are the beurocratic screw ups.

 

http://www.popularmechanics.com/science/de...842.html?page=7

http://www.sciam.com/article.cfm?articleID...E1583414B7F0000

http://skepdic.com/refuge/bunk27.html

Not to mention a wonderful episode of Bullshit! that Penn and Teller did on conspiracies in general (including the 9/11 ones) where they interviewed numerous experts. They even introduced the show with the statement that the goverment CAN'T be trusted. So, they went to experts in the applicable fields.

 

The conspiracy nuts do the exact same thing that Intelligent Design nuts do. They go for quote mining and argue using numerous fallacies. The "coincidences" aren't as numerous or as "coincidental" as most of these guys make them out to be. Once you have actually looked at all the evidence you realize that the "truth" is much less complicated than they wish it was.

 

Edit: By the way. Here is what really happened:

Edited February 20, 2008 by Taoist81

[Chanwu]

People don't want to believe in it because it is too awful. I don't blame you for staying ignorant, Taoist81, you can keep believing the lie.

[Yoda]

I look at it like governments, other people, etc are not trying to fuck you, but rather make sweet love to you but they are just a bit inept. We'll all get it right sooner or later.