After Enlightenment - Sainthood, Personality,

[welkin]

 l

Edited May 3, 2019 by welkin

[freeform]

Turned out to be a pretty valuable, multifaceted discussion. Thank you to everyone involved

 

9 hours ago, Pilgrim said:

Sure you do if the soup is good you will know it, if it is not you will know that also.  There is no need to compare,  value stands out on its own.

 

I think value is relative. As a street urchin, a fat roasted rat might be a pretty great meal. And you may never find out how good a meal can be unless my auntie’s recipe is protected and nurtured, passed down and shared.

 

I think there’s a certain preciousness to these arts. Dwai said that after his experience of awakening, he realised that there is nothing to protect - that this state is a natural aspect of what it means to be human and will always be accessible.

 

Which is true - in the case of ‘Awakening’.

 

I keep coming back to this point because it’s crucial.

 

The development that takes you further than awakening - that eventually takes it into a physical manifestation of your primordial spirit - enlightenment, is a really subtle, delicate process. It is not natural. It has been painstakingly developed, refined and passed down generation after generation.

 

My teachers tell me that going beyond the first Jhanna (which is the experience of awakening) - one needs a master that has achieved the next Jhanna to help you along at a point when you’re just about to break through.

 

Jhanna or Chan (in Chinese) is the very first step. It is accessible to all. The other 8 Jhannas are very difficult and they require precise practices, conduct and assistance by ones who have achieved them.

 

Sure the first one is great, but it doesn’t mean that we should let the rest die out because we already feel at peace and at ease.

Edited May 3, 2019 by freeform

[freeform]

7 hours ago, thelerner said:

This level one exercise seems mostly mental, so there's no circulating energy so I doubt it can hurt organs.

 

It also actually helps to open certain congenital meridians and creates some conditions necessary for alchemical work further down the line  

 

 

[KuroShiro]

10 hours ago, thelerner said:

only if you do it while smoking. 

 

On a more serious basis, in my understanding there are cultivation arts where you run energy through the body and doing too much, too fast can possibly be harmful, especially if your energy sensitive.  This level one exercise seems mostly mental, so there's no circulating energy so I doubt it can hurt organs.   

 

I can imagine Freeforms version being mentally exhausting til you get handle on it. 

 

P.S Wang Li Ping does talk about the need to do all these exercises from a state of calm equanimity.  If you have a disturbed mind then you can get into trouble and perhaps simple sitting would be better. 

 

2 hours ago, freeform said:

 

It also actually helps to open certain congenital meridians and creates some conditions necessary for alchemical work further down the line

 

 

Thank you both for your reply.

 

If there is a mental exercise the Qi is stirred and there is circulation of energy, I understand what you're saying about the positive emotions and the need of calm equanimity, but even so I think there might be a possibility for harming the Organs.

 

Freeform, you say this practice "develops a very good memory and a very sharp mind" and "helps to open certain congenital meridians" but can't it be compared to what you're talking about visualization the other day?

 

Shouldn't a very good memory and a very sharp mind come as results of practice without having to engage with memories? Same with opening the meridians? Which meridians are you referring to? 

 

Thanks.

[freeform]

50 minutes ago, KuroShiro said:

positive emotions and the need of calm equanimity

 

Calm equanimity and emotions is a contradiction

 

52 minutes ago, KuroShiro said:

I think there might be a possibility for harming the Organs

 

Why?

 

52 minutes ago, KuroShiro said:

can't it be compared to what you're talking about visualization the other day?

 

Its different. You’re not engaging your imagination. Your memory is already there - you’re not ‘creating’ anything, you’re just training your skill of perfect recollection

 

55 minutes ago, KuroShiro said:

Shouldn't a very good memory and a very sharp mind come as results of practice

 

Depends on the practice. Some practices can have the opposite effect 

 

This specific method is part of the Longmen Pai system and it’s there for a specific reason - creating a specific condition - not just for general memory improvement. It just has that side effect.

 

1 hour ago, KuroShiro said:

Which meridians are you referring to?

 

I’d rather not go there, sorry. It’s not that important anyway.

[Starjumper]

10 hours ago, Pilgrim said:

I would like to see a show of hands who here is enlightened or

 

I had my big wowwie zowwie enlightenment experience around 25 years ago.  As far as my condition now is concerned, I'll leave that up to all the ones with the definitions.  I never really cared about enlightenment either before or after it happened ... consciously.

 

[dwai]

 

11 hours ago, Pilgrim said:

I would like to see a show of hands who here is enlightened or the equivalent of the word as we have explored it within their system?

Personalities don't get enlightened. Enlightenment already is. Personalities have to relax to let it shine forth.  
 

 

[freeform]

30 minutes ago, dwai said:

 

Personalities don't get enlightened. Enlightenment already is. Personalities have to relax to let it shine forth.  
 

 

 

😂

[freeform]

11 hours ago, Pilgrim said:

I would like to see a show of hands who here is enlightened or the equivalent of the word as we have explored it within their system?

 

There is no ‘I’ man - because there is no ‘not-I’ - there are no hands because everything is hands and nothing...

 

Only joking

 

I’m certainly not. 

 

In fact it should be pretty simple - if just one of us is enlightened, he or she would know everyone else that is also enlightened.

 

In fact you don’t even have to be enlightened. Apparently when you reach the 4th Jhanna and above, you know every single individual that has also received this attainment or the equivalent and where they are in the world

 

Actually if anyone is enlightened they are omniscient and have access to all knowledge. So they’d be able to tell us anything we’d like to know at whatever level of detail we’d like...

 

so... what did I have for lunch today?

 

 

Edited May 3, 2019 by freeform

[Fa Xin]

22 minutes ago, freeform said:

so... what did I have for lunch today?

 

Hopefully not fat roasted rat .... though it might be good, I don't know...

[Pilgrim]

13 minutes ago, Fa Xin said:

 

Hopefully not fat roasted rat .... though it might be good, I don't know...

I thought about that and honestly if it is anything like roasted rabbit 🐇 folks might be surprised.

 

The idea of the starving thinking this a feast might very well enjoy like the well fed cannot.

 

Everything tastes better to the hungry but you have to know starvation to comprehend that.

 

Early life taught that lesson. 

 

Going back and reading more now, this is an interesting conversation.

[freeform]

4 hours ago, freeform said:

Depends on the practice. Some practices can have the opposite effect 

 

I just wanted to come back to this quickly.

 

I know it’s an offhand comment, but there’s something important here. Certain stages along the path will make you... hmmm how to put it... like high or stoned - like a mild dose of ecstasy, but lasting for several months at least. It often comes about after certain awakenings and leaves you blissed out, carefree and happy all the time.

 

Now it feels like what you’d imagine enlightenment must be like. It’s like a dreamy state - you’re at complete ease - there’s nothing to strive for, everything is fine, you feel love for everyone and everything and life is pure joy. But it’s a trap. Unfortunately

 

Many people get here and think they’ve arrived. Sadly this can turn in the opposite direction after a while - a deep, dark depression. It can also last for the rest of your life... but either way, it’s still a trap.

 

My teachers would only allow me to go through this process if I agreed to a fully isolated retreat for 3 months. The idea is to go through this phase as quickly as possible and not get attached.

 

Apparently it can come about spontaneously in people - so it’s not only brought about through intentional practice and transmission. I think it’s actually linked to ‘bipolar’ disorder... but I don’t fully understand how.

 

I can’t imagine how my life would have turned out if I entered this state without the guidance of my teachers. I’d probably be a hippy beach bum or god forbid some sort of spiritual guru.

 

The point is that these practices need to be taken seriously, and you need a good guide that has gone down the path, way ahead of you to show you the way through these periods. Your own natural wisdom is simply not enough to navigate beyond a certain point.

[Everything]

Hi, I am your leader. Welcome to your journey towards enlightenment.

 

I have not yet discovered my own alignment with my own Source, and I'm feeling rather frustrated in my illogical effort to control others, so that I can feel better. And I am using YOU as a ginny pig, to see how compliant you would be. And how many of my hoops you are willing to jump through.

 

And I have this illogical misunderstanding that if I can get you to jump through some of my hoops, that I will feel better. But it's gonna take your undivided attention. You're gonna have to REAAALLY trust me, which means, you're gonna have to set aside all of your natural instincts... So, you're gonna have to, from this moment forward, forget that if it feels good, it is. And you have to start believing that if it feels good, you're being led down the wrong path, and that if it feels bad, you're on the right path.

 

AND THEN! You have to understand that NOTHING that is worthwhile, is easy. There is NO stream of well-being. There is NO Source. You are NOT worthy! You are here as unworthy beings. And so, any of your natural instincts are wrong. Set them ALL aside. If you feel like laughing, stifle it, because that would be innapropriate. And if you feel like doing something, DON'T. Because that's just selfish.

 

If you instead listen to me! Now, it's gonna be hard so it's gonna take allot of trust and allot of faith and ALLOT of willpower. You're reeeaaaally gonna need aLLOT of willpower because, EVERY inclination that you have is gonna want to lead you towards joy so it's gonna be allot of trouble for you!

 

Because I know how much trouble it is, I'm gonna start with you when you're really really little. And I will call those, "the formative years." Those are the years, when, you defy your natural instincts for joy. And instead, you do everything that's illogical... I'm going to smile when I don't mean it. I'm gonna pretend that I feel good when I don't. You will learn to mimmick my actions, with no guidance whatsoever coming forth from within... And... If I can train you appropriately? Then we'll have world peace! 

 

We will have defied all of your natural instincts, we will have defied your reason for being, we will be defying everything that you are, but let's go for it... And if it doesn't work out (and so far it hasn't!) we'll get better at it. We'll train you stronger and faster, and we'll ASK for your compliance, then if we don't get it, then we'll just make the stakes higher. And if you don't listen to us, then we'll condemn you to hell... We will.

 

Have a bad day.

 

[Pilgrim]

12 hours ago, freeform said:

I keep coming back to this point because it’s crucial.

 

The development that takes you further than awakening - that eventually takes it into a physical manifestation of your primordial spirit - enlightenment, is a really subtle, delicate process. It is not natural. It has been painstakingly developed, refined and passed down generation after generation.

 

My teachers tell me that going beyond the first Jhanna (which is the experience of awakening) - one needs a master that has achieved the next Jhanna to help you along at a point when you’re just about to break through.

 

Jhanna or Chan (in Chinese) is the very first step. It is accessible to all. The other 8 Jhannas are very difficult and they require precise practices, conduct and assistance by ones who have achieved them.

 

Sure the first one is great, but it doesn’t mean that we should let the rest die out because we already feel at peace and at ease.

Interesting so I see you are coming from a Buddhist perspective. Here is what I could find let us discuss this. Is this your interpretation as well as spelled out below not necessarily the Kriya stuff as that requires Kriya Sadhana to confirm.

 

I am familiar with everything written here. These states being described first occur as Meditative states while performing a practice and later become ones normal mode of operation.

 

These are all well known to me. My normal mode of operation however the sustained daily experience without practice does not go all the way to 8.

 

The 8 Jhanas
as Described in the Pali Canon
with traditional Jhana factors in bold

Rupa Jhanas

1.     "There is the case where a monk -- quite secluded from sense desires, secluded from unwholesome states of mind -- enters and remains in the first Jhana which is with initial and sustained thinking and is filled with rapture and happiness born of seclusion. He drenches, steeps, saturates, and suffuses his body with this rapture and happiness so that there is no part of his entire body not suffused with rapture and happiness.

"Just as if a skilled bath attendent or his apprentice would pour soap powder into a metal basin and knead it together, sprinkling it again and again with water, so that the ball of soap powder would be filled with mostiure, encompassed by mostiure, pervaded by mosture inside and out, yet would not drip; even so, the monk drenches, steeps, saturates, and suffuses his body with the rapture and happiness born of seclusion so that there is no part of his entire body not suffused with rapture and happiness.

This in the tradition of Kriya Yoga is part of the results of first Kriya Practice first it is known while sitting and performing the practices learned from an acharya of the lineage or the guru themselves. This is when the sadhaka can perceive the very beginning of the triple divine qualities. In the tradition of my lineage stemming from Baba Hariharananda and going back into antiquity of Babaji Maharaj.  

 

In this tradition we do not waste time with many things and rituals instead from initiation a current is passed into the student performing an initial purification of the nadis and chakras enabling the sadhaka to perceive the triple divine qualities in themselves, this works for the ripe and more slowly for the unripe.

 

Our way is the way of direct current, for example if you touch a live wire with current in it you will get the current immediately and the effects will be with you for a long time.

 

When you prepare a meal it takes time but consuming it takes little time, when you fill your vehicle with fuel it take but moments but you may drive for hundreds of miles all day long.

 

This practice is like that Kriya does not take long to get immediate effects,  but mostly my point is it is direct and the effects are immediate and sustained afterwards invoking a permanent change over time and repeated immersion your efforts are rewarded with cash now not a check to be cashed later and there is no need for sustained tremendous effort.

 

2. "Further, with the stilling of initial and sustained thinking, by gaining inner tranquillity and unification of mind, he enters and remains in the second Jhana which is free from initial and sustained thinking and is filled with rapture and happiness born of concentration. He drenches, steeps, saturates, and suffuses his body with this rapture and happiness so that there is no part of his entire body not suffused with rapture and happiness.

"Just like a lake with spring-water welling up from below, having no inflow from east, west, north, or south, and with the skies [not?] periodically supplying it with rain, so that the cool spring-water welling up from below would permeate and pervade, suffuse and fill that lake with cool water, there being no part of the lake not suffused with cool water; even so, the monk drenches, steeps, saturates, and suffuses his body with the rapture and happiness born of concentration so that there is no part of his entire body not suffused with rapture and happiness.

 

We in Kriya call the the paravastha state of Kriya. The after effect which in time becomes permanent.

 

3. Further, with the fading away of rapture, remaining imperturbable, mindful, and clearly aware, he enters the third jhana and experiences within himself the joy of which the Noble Ones declare, "Happy is he who dwells with equanimity and mindfulness." He drenches, steeps, saturates, and suffuses his body with this happiness free from rapture so that there is no part of his entire body not suffused with happiness.

"Just as in a blue-, white-, or red-lotus pond, there may be some of the lotuses which, born and growing in the water, stay immersed in the water and flourish without standing up out of the water, so that they are permeated and pervaded, suffused and filled with cool water from their roots to their tips so that no part of those lotuses is not suffused with cool water; even so, the monk drenches, steeps, saturates, and suffuses his body with this happiness free from rapture so that there is no part of his entire body not suffused with happiness.

 

This in Kriya is further development in sustained Paravastha.

 

4. Further, with the abandoning of pleasure and pain -- as with the earlier disappearance of joy and sorrow -- he enters and remains in the fourth Jhana which is beyond pleasure and pain; and purified by equanimity and mindfulness. He sits, suffusing his body with a pure, bright awareness, so that there is nothing of his entire body not suffused by pure, bright awareness.

"Just as if a man were sitting wrapped from head to foot with a white cloth so that there would be no part of his body to which the white cloth did not extend; even so, the monk sits, suffusing his body with a pure, bright awareness so that there is no part of his entire body not suffused by pure, bright awareness."

 

This is part of the development from first Kriya and is first present while sitting in practice them later in varying degrees when not sitting.

 

5. With the complete transcending of bodily sensations, with the disappearance of all sense of resistance, and not heeding perceptions of diversity, thinking, 'space is infinite,' one enters and remains in the Sphere of Infinite Space.

 

This is present in the practice of first Kriya after Kechari has come naturally. Here one experiences Pratyahara sense withdraw as the current is pulled inwards into the Sushumna Nadi.

 

6.With the complete transcending of the Sphere of Infinite Space, thinking, 'consciousness is infinite,' one enters and remains in the Sphere of Infinite Consciousness. 

 

This also is present in the practice of first Kriya after Kechari has come naturally.

 

7.With the complete transcending of the Sphere of Infinite Consciousness, thinking, 'There is no-thing,' one enters and remains in the Sphere of No-thingness.

 

This also is present in the practice of first Kriya after Kechari has come naturally, this occurs in the active paravastha which leads to the paravastha state in waking moving daily life and develops over the years.

 

8. With the complete transcending of the Sphere of No-thingness, one enters and remains in the Sphere of Neither Perception nor Non-perception."

 

This is the description of Nirvakalpa Samadhi. Here there is not heartbeat and no breath and no words no matter how elegantly put forth can touch this. 

 

Because we are discussing this it can be said that these 8 are all encountered in formal seated states that practices (in my case Kriya of Baba Hariharananda) the practices themselves set the conditions for the Jhanas to arse, first they are known while sitting in absorption and later they become ones standard operating system as the code of being becomes rewritten.

 

It is a agreed the practices are contrived and are handed down from a golden era without doubt. 

 

It is further agreed that the practices must be done regularly to continue to deepen and form the non- contrived  lasting natural way of being.

 

It has not been noted but the practices are entirely un-necessary as well. If given innumerable reincarnations the same will occur in it's own good time, the very living itself does this albeit at a ponderous pace requiring millions of births and rebirths.

 

How many we have all had to get to this discussion? 

 

As for me I said raise your hand those who are enlightened having some fun with that and enjoying the answers. 

 

If we use the 8 Jhanas and use the functional non sitting absorption practices but rather the resulting continuous state of operating after the fact we can see that there is not a black or white this or that all or nothing.

 

No rather there is fluctuation as well as sliding up and down the scale.

 

When seated in formal Kriya Practice I generally stop around 7 to go further is to go into 8 which I have many times but there is a danger here one will not return. There is no heartbeat, there is no breathing. There is hatred to return from this. No one may ever tell this truth because it is not something that sells well.

 

8. I have decided since it has been experienced and is known will be practiced one more time in this life and that will be during my Maha Samadhi.

 

I am familiar with everything written here. These states being described first occur as Meditative states while performing a practice and later become ones normal mode of operation.

 

These are all well known to me. My normal mode of operation however the sustained daily experience without practice does not go all the way to 8.

 

 

 

The 8 Jhanas
as Described in the Pali Canon
with traditional Jhana factors in bold

Rupa Jhanas

1. "There is the case where a monk -- quite secluded from sense desires, secluded from unwholesome states of mind -- enters and remains in the first Jhana which is with initial and sustained thinking and is filled with rapture and happiness born of seclusion. He drenches, steeps, saturates, and suffuses his body with this rapture and happiness so that there is no part of his entire body not suffused with rapture and happiness.

"Just as if a skilled bath attendent or his apprentice would pour soap powder into a metal basin and knead it together, sprinkling it again and again with water, so that the ball of soap powder would be filled with mostiure, encompassed by mostiure, pervaded by mosture inside and out, yet would not drip; even so, the monk drenches, steeps, saturates, and suffuses his body with the rapture and happiness born of seclusion so that there is no part of his entire body not suffused with rapture and happiness.

This in the tradition of Kriya Yoga is part of the results of first Kriya Practice first it is known while sitting and performing the practices learned from an acharya of the lineage or the guru themselves. This is when the sadhaka can perceive the very beginning of the triple divine qualities. In the tradition of my lineage stemming from Baba Hariharananda and going back into antiquity of Babaji Maharaj.  

 

In this tradition we do not waste time with many things and rituals instead from initiation a current is passed into the student performing an initial purification of the nadis and chakras enabling the sadhaka to perceive the triple divine qualities in themselves, this works for the ripe and more slowly for the unripe.

 

Our way is the way of direct current, for example if you touch a live wire with current in it you will get the current immediately and the effects will be with you for a long time.

 

When you prepare a meal it takes time but consuming it takes little time, when you fill your vehicle with fuel it take but moments but you may drive for hundreds of miles all day long.

 

This practice is like that Kriya does not take long to get immediate effects,  but mostly my point is it is direct and the effects are immediate and sustained afterwards invoking a permanent change over time and repeated immersion your efforts are rewarded with cash now not a check to be cashed later and there is no need for sustained tremendous effort.

 

2. "Further, with the stilling of initial and sustained thinking, by gaining inner tranquillity and unification of mind, he enters and remains in the second Jhana which is free from initial and sustained thinking and is filled with rapture and happiness born of concentration. He drenches, steeps, saturates, and suffuses his body with this rapture and happiness so that there is no part of his entire body not suffused with rapture and happiness.

"Just like a lake with spring-water welling up from below, having no inflow from east, west, north, or south, and with the skies [not?] periodically supplying it with rain, so that the cool spring-water welling up from below would permeate and pervade, suffuse and fill that lake with cool water, there being no part of the lake not suffused with cool water; even so, the monk drenches, steeps, saturates, and suffuses his body with the rapture and happiness born of concentration so that there is no part of his entire body not suffused with rapture and happiness.

 

We in Kriya call the the paravastha state of Kriya. The after effect which in time becomes permanent.

 

3. Further, with the fading away of rapture, remaining imperturbable, mindful, and clearly aware, he enters the third jhana and experiences within himself the joy of which the Noble Ones declare, "Happy is he who dwells with equanimity and mindfulness." He drenches, steeps, saturates, and suffuses his body with this happiness free from rapture so that there is no part of his entire body not suffused with happiness.

"Just as in a blue-, white-, or red-lotus pond, there may be some of the lotuses which, born and growing in the water, stay immersed in the water and flourish without standing up out of the water, so that they are permeated and pervaded, suffused and filled with cool water from their roots to their tips so that no part of those lotuses is not suffused with cool water; even so, the monk drenches, steeps, saturates, and suffuses his body with this happiness free from rapture so that there is no part of his entire body not suffused with happiness.

 

This in Kriya is further development in sustained Paravastha.

 

4. Further, with the abandoning of pleasure and pain -- as with the earlier disappearance of joy and sorrow -- he enters and remains in the fourth Jhana which is beyond pleasure and pain; and purified by equanimity and mindfulness. He sits, suffusing his body with a pure, bright awareness, so that there is nothing of his entire body not suffused by pure, bright awareness.

"Just as if a man were sitting wrapped from head to foot with a white cloth so that there would be no part of his body to which the white cloth did not extend; even so, the monk sits, suffusing his body with a pure, bright awareness so that there is no part of his entire body not suffused by pure, bright awareness."

 

This is part of the development from first Kriya and is first present while sitting in practice them later in varying degrees when not sitting.

 

5. With the complete transcending of bodily sensations, with the disappearance of all sense of resistance, and not heeding perceptions of diversity, thinking, 'space is infinite,' one enters and remains in the Sphere of Infinite Space.

 

This is present in the practice of first Kriya after Kechari has come naturally. Here one experiences Pratyahara sense withdraw as the current is pulled inwards into the Sushumna Nadi.

 

6.With the complete transcending of the Sphere of Infinite Space, thinking, 'consciousness is infinite,' one enters and remains in the Sphere of Infinite Consciousness. 

 

This also is present in the practice of first Kriya after Kechari has come naturally.

 

7.With the complete transcending of the Sphere of Infinite Consciousness, thinking, 'There is no-thing,' one enters and remains in the Sphere of No-thingness.

 

This also is present in the practice of first Kriya after Kechari has come naturally, this occurs in the active paravastha which leads to the paravastha state in waking moving daily life and develops over the years.

 

8. With the complete transcending of the Sphere of No-thingness, one enters and remains in the Sphere of Neither Perception nor Non-perception."

 

This is the description of Nirvakalpa Samadhi. Here there is not heartbeat and no breath and no words no matter how elegantly put forth can touch this. 

 

Because we are discussing this it can be said that these 8 are all encountered in formal seated states that practices (in my case Kriya of Baba Hariharananda) the practices themselves set the conditions for the Jhanas to arse, first they are known while sitting in absorption and later they become ones standard operating system as the code of being becomes rewritten.

 

It is a agreed the practices are contrived and are handed down from a golden era without doubt. 

 

It is further agreed that the practices must be done regularly to continue to deepen and form the non- contrived  lasting natural way of being.

 

It has not been noted but the practices are entirely un-necessary as well. If given innumerable reincarnations the same will occur in it's own good time, the very living itself does this albeit at a ponderous pace requiring millions of births and rebirths.

 

How many we have all had to get to this discussion? 

 

As for me I said raise your hand those who are enlightened having some fun with that and enjoying the answers. 

 

If we use the 8 Jhanas and use the functional non sitting absorption practices but rather the resulting continuous state of operating after the fact we can see that there is not a black or white this or that all or nothing.

 

No rather there is fluctuation as well as sliding up and down the scale.

 

When seated in formal Kriya Practice I generally stop around 7 to go further is to go into 8 which I have many times but there is a danger here one will not return. There is no heartbeat, there is no breathing. There is hatred to return from this. No one may ever tell this truth because it is not something that sells well.

 

8. I have decided since it has been experienced and is known it will only be practiced one more time in this life and that will be during my Maha Samadhi and maybe not even then as I am looking forward to the final experience in this incarnation I believe it will be quite interesting indeed but more likely than not just familiar so I am a little on the fence with this.

 

 

 

[dwai]

@Pilgrim very interesting and thanks for sharing. There are many overlaps with the system of taoist mediation and tai chi practice I've learnt. In our system, the master "lights" your stove, so to speak. It happens with a touch to the third-eye. It triggers some deep and profound changes, which results in continuous bliss, 24x7 for months. Those who keep up the practice, stabilize in it and enter nirvikalpa samadhi repeatedly, and are after that able to remain in a sahaja samadhi.

 

My master just calls it "emptiness" and it is a condition that is maintained physically as well as mentally. A state of non-attachment, non-clinging. Letting go of likes/dislikes, pleasures/pains etc. It deepens progressively with practice and time. 

 

When I first got a taste of it, I spent about 15 days spontaneously meditating in all sorts of places - in the restaurants, while driving, at the grocery store etc etc. The energy would move my body and I'd be doing spontaneous kriyas/tai chi forms etc.  

 

Then another 18 months in a state of split awareness. Like the two birds on a branch (Mundaka Upanishad). Constantly, one state was ever blissful, unattached, unruffled by ups and downs. The other was busy continuing on as most people's minds/egos do. Yet, the power of the silent/blissful awareness was so overwhelming that many old habits just died on the vine. 

 

My master told me that the "ego" becomes a faithful servant of what he calls the "spiritual mind". And it has, for the most part. Yet, I often am struck by how much deeper the vein runs in my master...  

 

 

[Stosh]

6 hours ago, Fa Xin said:

 

Hopefully not fat roasted rat .... though it might be good, I don't know...

I think its called a happy meal. 

[Fa Xin]

36 minutes ago, Stosh said:

I think its called a happy meal. 

 

Anything tastes good with pickles and ketchup. 

[dwai]

5 minutes ago, Fa Xin said:

 

Anything tastes good with pickles and ketchup. 

No fries? 

[Fa Xin]

11 minutes ago, dwai said:

No fries? 

How could I forget? 😀

[Pilgrim]

This is all very similar. 

 

This part here is the very essence of first Kriya, Kriya is the Gita

 

9 minutes ago, dwai said:

in a state of split awareness. Like the two birds on a branch (Mundaka Upanishad). Constantly, one state was ever blissful, unattached, unruffled by ups and downs.

 

This is from the very start with Baba Hariharanandas Kriya right after initiation and training in fact. I know not many get this but that is to be expected with so many given such precious tools so easily. When I was first initiated and taught by Swami Atamavidyanandaji I was surprised.

 

During Initiation after he purified the chakras my heart center opened and I cried tears that would not stop they flowed for hours and he came to me and said the fire of Anahata burns green and smokey making the eyes water does it not? I just nodded yes and he lovingly patted my shoulder.

 

His by the way was the only true and real initiation I have ever received outside of the Christian Gnostices in California when I was 14 or so. 

 

After his initiation all of the Kriya practices became alive from the very start. Very rapid changes even the physical body changed within a few weeks full Kechari mudra formed which is quite a shock. This is where the energetic takes over the physical and causes it to change.  

 

(For those who do not Know Kechari Mudra REAL KECHARI MUDRA occurs when the energetic Channel Sushumna closes its bifurcation and becomes a single channel. The physical representative is the tongue. The tongue changes slides up behind the soft pallet going straight up in the skull it then rests in contact with the the sphenoid sinuses directly under the pituitary gland.

 

The energy from the crown now has a direct pathway into the body without bends or obstructions it is like unkinking a garden hose. A great gout of energy flows there is tremendous mind wiping out bliss followed by great silence.)

 

Have you practiced descending?  I do all the time. Then I stop and see how high I rise like a hot air balloon on it's own and this gives me a true measure of attainment and not just the Spiritual High. Their is a potential problem with this and that is bypassing without even knowing it and missing the reason you are alive to begin with. 

 

For example right now I have been practicing the third Kriya of Hariharanada which has nothing at all to do with the energy system of the lower chakras.

 

This is like in the Gita where the mans head is cut off so he may watch the battle unfold.

 

Here we are working with 5 chakras in the brain. 

[liminal_luke]

I used to live in Zacatecas where rata del campo, country rat, was sometimes sold outside the market.  Although generally an adventurous eater, I never sampled. 

 

The video below is in Spanish but the pictures tell the story.

 

 

[welkin]

6 hours ago, freeform said:

I can’t imagine how my life would have turned out if I entered this state without the guidance of my teachers. I’d probably be a hippy beach bum or god forbid some sort of spiritual guru.

 

you didn't become a beach bum. You became a dao bum

[mrpasserby]

This seems like the right thread to ask for helpful information on some recently developing questions that have come up in the course of my development toward enlightenment.

I so far didn't read anything about what is called the 1,000 petal lotus in connection with enlightenment. Can anybody share some experiences about this?

Also after I witnessed my 1,000 petal lotus had popped out I began working toward entering what I think is called by some the Jade Emperor, or what I call the 4th earth chakra, the gate keeper their humbled me by stating that I wasn't ready yet. Helpful comments/cultivation examples toward me getting ready to make this transition would be appreciated? 

Edited May 4, 2019 by mrpasserby
clarify meaning put a change in bold

[mrpasserby]

 

On 4/29/2019 at 2:50 AM, KuroShiro said:

 

Do you know if enlightenment (or something else beyond it) is what we are meant to "achieve" in this earthly realm (kind of a kindergarten) and until then there is reincarnation?

I'm not  literate enough to speak to enlightenment, but after being trained to access my functional spirit body I have been working my way through the experiences of passing through the various earth chakras. This just seamed to be the correct course for me to travel, and hoping to learn how to avoid reincarnation/recycling.

To me enlightenment is the way of wisdom that some take, I chose to take the way of sincerity which is sometimes painful but you don't have to be so intelligent just determined.

kabbalah tree of life: this picture may or may not be helpful, showing the path across spirit death/recycling.

 

 

 

Edited May 4, 2019 by mrpasserby
add picture spelling

[manitou]

So the Sincere path is the one on the left.  Does one have to go through all ten phases during one's life and death?  Or is there also a connection between, say, 10 and 8 without going through 9?  Could you give a little bit of a verbal description of how one thing relates to the other?