Internal Family System

[Giles]

Hi Everyone!

 

I noticed that one of your members recently recommended the IFS & I'm hoping that I might be able add some value to this website by further promoting this particularly effective method of cultivation.

 

Best Wishes,

 

Giles

[Fa Xin]

Hello, Giles, and welcome.

 

Your membership is approved and we're happy you found your way to us. We look forward to accompanying you on some of the way that you still have to go.

 

Please take the time to read the post pinned at the top of this Welcome page and take a look at the forum Terms and Rules.   This covers all you need to know when getting started.

 

For the first week you will be restricted to ten posts per day but after that you can post as much as you like. Also, until you’ve posted fifteen times in the forums, you’ll be a “Junior Bum” with somewhat restricted access and will be allowed only two private messages per day.

 

Good luck in your pursuits and best wishes to you,

 

Fa Xin and the TDB team

 

Welcome Giles,

 

I’ve never heard of it but I’m interested. Hope you enjoy the forum. 

 

You are welcome to jump right in to the ongoing discussions, revive an older thread, start a new thread of your own, or start a discussion in the "Newcomer Corner" sub-forum to expand on your introduction or ask general questions to help you get started.

 

May you enjoy your time here.

 

Fa Xin

[rideforever]

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Edited May 6, 2019 by rideforever

[Giles]

For Fa Xin & any other interested parties a short introduction to IFS can be found on Wikipedia

 

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Internal_Family_Systems_Model

 

As you have a Systems Forum here, I wonder if that might be the best place for me to develop on my introduction?

[Giles]

Thanks for the video. I'll certainly watch it later!

 

I'm not familiar with Bonnie's book, so I can't comment on it but if you're struggling with this particular do-it-yourself approach, you might be better finding another workbook (e.g. Jay Earley's Self-Therapy Volume 1, 2nd Edition, which also has a free downloadable companion workbook that you can find on his website) or someone competent in IFS to work with directly. I offer a free 50 minute introductory session to potential clients (but I should add that for ethical reasons, I can't take on any of the membership here).

[rideforever]

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Edited May 6, 2019 by rideforever

[Giles]

Firstly, let me say that from my personal perspective IFS is fundamentally Self-therapy & I'm seriously out of pocket, especially as I charge on a sliding scale and I often work pro bono because I find it both interesting & fulfilling. Again from my personal perspective I consider that the faster that someone is able to access sufficient Self to unburden their parts & becomes an ex-paying or ex-pro bono client, the happier am I.

 

I'm prepared to offer to discuss IFS with you (or anyone else here) informally (& pro bono) if youre interested in deepening your undestanding of IFS because one of the reasons that I decided to join this forum was to explore whether or not it's possible to discuss this system helpfully in this sort of environment. Another reason is that if anyone takes me up on this offer I'd probably find it both interesting and enlightening. However, please be aware that I will not work professionally with anyone except face-to-face and I personally consider that even videoconferencing therapy is almost invariably entirely unethical. So, any such discussion would NOT be therapy NOR a substitute for therapy.

 

If you're interested in taking up this offer, I'd start by suggesting that you'd certainly find it more useful to consider whether you're manifesting a blended Protector at the moment (instead of focusing on the theoretical possibility of accessing preverbal Exiles). If not, then I wish you every sucess with the other things which you say you must explore.

[Fa Xin]

Thanks Giles and rideforever.  I have heard of this in my psychology classes, but have not dived in yet (I’m a CBT fan myself). I’ll have to look more into IFS. 

[Giles]

Thanks to you @Fa Xin & to @rideforever who made some particularly interesting comments. I'm sorry that you later chose to to delete a post because I found that one particularly interesting & useful. However, if using the IFS model, it's vital to understand that all parts (both blended &  unblended) are invaluable to ourselves & to each other so I'd like to thank both those parts (the part that posted & the part that deleted). Thank you @rideforever.

 

To pick up on what I recall you said, I can't disagree that many people overintelectualise & overconceptualise IFS & that most practioners are financially dependent on their clients, which is a fundamental problem with all psychotherapy. That's one of the reasons that I choose to focus on IFS for its spiritual dimension rather than upon what I see as the beneficial psycological side-effects & why I also limit myself to working with no more than 4 people (although there are also other reasons for ensuring that I impose that limit on myself).

[Fa Xin]

Is it possible to give us a quick summary about IFS, when you have some time? I know my current professor has mentioned it’s his preferred technique/style but never went into details regarding it. So I’m not quite sure what it entails. 

[Giles]

I recommend that you start here https://selfleadership.org/about-internal-family-systems.html.

 

Where you go from there is up to you (yourSelf). I'm happy to dialogue further about that if you like, especially if you want to explore the method experientially, as opposed to just intellectually. Of course, it would also be essential to engage your intellect in that case & because the only prerequisite for a Level 1 IFS training would be to read two of Dick's books, Internal Family Systems Therapy (1995) & Introduction to the Internal Family Systems Model (2001), I recommend doing that as step 2 before considering starting to experiment with your own psyche.

 

Step 3 would be to read Internal Family System Skills Training Manual (2017) by Frank Anderson, Martha Sweezy & Dick Schwartz.

[rideforever]

I have seen that although IFS has some "good ideas" in it, those ideas are not actually new and it's become a jazzed up thing in order to charge £500/.day for "training" seminars which is extremely expensive, and probably because of the high cost the students don't have enough money to get any real therapy on themselves.

It also appears to me that some, not all, but some IFS therapist use the "very clever" ideas in IFS to avoid themselves in a new and clever way that is very pleasing to the ego-false-self that adores being in his mind with "very clever" ideas.

Unfortunately we live on in a society of low consciousness and corruption.

In this environment you are -if you want my advice- much better off going the long way round doing simple things like crying, being sincere and truthful about your pain, sitting in front of a large mirror, grieving and doing things like that ... which are difficult to get wrong, and yes they hurt, but the truth hurts.

Trying to be "really clever" and associating yourself with "very clever" therapies is not an appropriate response to this corrupt world.
Better to be simple grounded and "old fashioned".

[Fa Xin]

7 hours ago, rideforever said:

In this environment you are -if you want my advice- much better off going the long way round doing simple things like crying, being sincere and truthful about your pain, sitting in front of a large mirror, grieving and doing things like that ... which are difficult to get wrong, and yes they hurt, but the truth hurts.

 

Good ideas. Feeling the stuff is the only way to get through it.

 

[Giles]

19 hours ago, rideforever said:

I have seen that although IFS has some "good ideas" in it, those ideas are not actually new and it's become a jazzed up thing in order to charge £500/.day for "training" seminars which is extremely expensive, and probably because of the high cost the students don't have enough money to get any real therapy on themselves.

It also appears to me that some, not all, but some IFS therapist use the "very clever" ideas in IFS to avoid themselves in a new and clever way that is very pleasing to the ego-false-self that adores being in his mind with "very clever" ideas.

Unfortunately we live on in a society of low consciousness and corruption.

In this environment you are -if you want my advice- much better off going the long way round doing simple things like crying, being sincere and truthful about your pain, sitting in front of a large mirror, grieving and doing things like that ... which are difficult to get wrong, and yes they hurt, but the truth hurts.

Trying to be "really clever" and associating yourself with "very clever" therapies is not an appropriate response to this corrupt world.
Better to be simple grounded and "old fashioned".

 

You are entirely correct! There are no new ideas in IFS but some existing ideas have certainly been rearranged in quite a clever way to produce a simple theory & a reproducable technique to deliver an effective (evidence-based) Self therapy system.

 

IFS training costs are a bit less than £500/day.

 

Introductory Seminar (1 day) £70 - £75/day

Level 1 Training (15 days) £174 - £187/day

Level 2 Training (5 days) £230/day

Level 2 Training (10 days) £215/day

Level 3 Training (5 days) £330/day

 

You can confirm the costs in Sterling and check my calculations by going to the UK Training website at https://internalfamilysystemstraining.co.uk/booking/#table-courses

 

People attending these courses actually practice this therapy with each other but in any case IFS is fundamentally Self therapy.

 

As for Self bypassing, obviously nobody is immune from having some blind spots. Perhaps if you check-in with your Self (& with other people’s Self to double-check) you’ll discover some of your own?

[rideforever]

The prices are a bit different, I was misinformed by a friend who is participating this year.

 

I won't be participating as I am not looking for a "special trick".

[Giles]

On 16/05/2019 at 5:23 PM, rideforever said:

The prices are a bit different, I was misinformed by a friend who is participating this year.

 

I won't be participating as I am not looking for a "special trick".

 

 

I'm wondering if you have a history of feeling tricked by those who you consider should have been trustworthy?

 

IFS isn't about any tricks, special or otherwise. It's about getting (and staying) in touch with your Self. It's yourSelf that's the healer not the therapist. Ironically, IFS makes therapists & therapy redundant because it's Self-therapy. In that respect it's an extremely useful model for anyone with trust issues. In practice, that's everyone because nobody had/has perfect parents.

 

[rideforever]

3 hours ago, Giles said:

 

 

Therapy is a business isn't it.   Big money.
Many people go on therapy courses, training courses to get their certificates.

It is a shame that such people don't get the therapy they need, but then ... it all costs money doesn't it.

Modern culture is very mind oriented, there are lots of therapies that are about a "faster way" or a "special trick" so that you don't have to do ... all that work that previous people did.  You can just, reprogram yourself, in a weekend.  Bang, don't have to even feel any suffering.

It's all so clever isn't it.

And because it's so clever and you don't have to feel your suffering, well ... it's worth paying extra.

This is the logic of modern western society.

You would do well to try to keep your soul and avoid cheap answers.

 

I see you say that the therapist is not the healer, you are the healer.

Ah ... what a wonderful get out clause.  You take the money, but .. if it doesn't work, well it's up to them.

They are the healer.

I'll just put their money in my bank account.

There is something very sick about this picture.

 

I can't say IFS is all rubbish, but ... you will have to choose.

Perhaps if there wasn't so much insincerity and desperate money making, then something less extreme could be made of it's ideas.

What the hell do I know.

 

Edited September 3, 2019 by rideforever

[Wu Ming Jen]

I was hoping this thread was about traditional family systems of internal martial arts. Many new to internal arts missed out on many of these forms with applications. Modern forms are a blend of different family styles.. One of my first teachers Master Jou Tsung hwa taught Chen, Yang, Wu and Cheng Man Ching forms which is exceptional.

 

IFS seems to be about mental problems with no physical discipline just mind games and counseling. The Taoist arts as many like Carl Jung have found is the superior method to a healthy life and mental balance.

 

Talk therapy has a destructive side. Thoughts are like groves of an album by talking out negative emotions and experience it allows the grooves to become deeper not allowing a person to move on with alternative positive thought patterns. the caterpillars remains an un born butterfly.

[liminal_luke]

On 3/9/2019 at 7:53 AM, Wu Ming Jen said:

 

Talk therapy has a destructive side. Thoughts are like groves of an album by talking out negative emotions and experience it allows the grooves to become deeper not allowing a person to move on with alternative positive thought patterns. the caterpillars remains an un born butterfly.

 

Talk therapy done wrong can be destructive, yes.  Then again, Daoist cultivation done wrong is no picnic either.  You bring up a great point about the groove of negative emotions.  Therapy that does nothing but rehash negativity is not therapeutic.  Still, I think most psychotherapists are very much in favor of moving on to the "alternative positive thought patterns" you suggest.

 

  

Edited September 4, 2019 by liminal_luke

[Wu Ming Jen]

Talking out problems and situations is a very positive thing to do before using a middle man and a very normal thing to do.

 

The talk and emotions expressed are finding solutions and compromise. When people fail to communicate and get an outsider involved is usually the first step to divorce or medical medication to "fix mental issues or endless sessions that is profitable to the establishment and spiritually and materially bankrupts the patient. Always exceptions that seem to succeed...well the ones that get paid. Kidding

[sean]

Small world, Bonnie was my therapist when I lived in the Bay, and I've also done some freelance work for her and Jay. Really benefited from our transformative work together. ✨

 

Sean

 

[Giles]

There now seems to be a 50:50 split (2 in favour of IFS, 2 against IFS and one seemingly neutral but open to the possibility, at this stage)?

 

Let me start with Wu Ming Jen (I'll return to discuss ridesforever's points later because there are certainly some grains of truth in his assertions, which need to be addressed).

 

For your information, the way that I view and use IFS is fundamentally somatic, so perhaps that tips the balance?

 

[liminal_luke]

13 minutes ago, Giles said:

There now seems to be a 50:50 split (2 in favour of IFS, 2 against IFS and one seemingly neutral but open to the possibility, at this stage)?

 

 

Now you´ve got me curious.  Am I being sorted into the "in favor" camp or am I the "seemingly neutral" one?  I love the idea of seeming neutrality (so mysterious!) and am hoping for that category. 

 

 

[Wu Ming Jen]

5 hours ago, Giles said:

There now seems to be a 50:50 split (2 in favour of IFS, 2 against IFS and one seemingly neutral but open to the possibility, at this stage)?

 

Let me start with Wu Ming Jen (I'll return to discuss ridesforever's points later because there are certainly some grains of truth in his assertions, which need to be addressed).

 

For your information, the way that I view and use IFS is fundamentally somatic, so perhaps that tips the balance?

 

A holistic therapy is a good thing. Internal sensation and working with autonomic nervous system should have a physical discipline to be administered such as Tai Chi Chuan. Is this something that is included in IFS not tai chi per say but any kind of movement or is it physiological?