Citta

[lifeforce]

15 minutes ago, rideforever said:

 

Right well he is a complete f-ing idiot.

 

Judging by his attitude and tattoos he is like lone man pai with the orange mask and tattoos.   

 

 

Luckily for me I don't judge people on appearances and attitude, and what the hell have tattoos got to do with the subject matter. I have lots of tattoos, does that make me less enlightened or spiritual ?

You are trolling this thread with your judgemental attitude, just because you don't agree with what is being said.

Believe it or not, there are free-thinkers out there that don't take things on blind faith. You know, people who actually put in the hard work and do research, study and practice. Thats the problem with organised religions and traditions, group think and the herd mentality. The authority figures at the top of the chain don't encourage questioning, scrutiny and criticism and want everybody to believe in the same way. That is not freedom, it is totalitarianism and produces nothing apart from robotic clones. 

 

Another 'idiot' who dared question the validity of translation.

http://www.forestdhammatalks.org/en/ajahn_martin/dhamma/Ajahn Martin_Is the citta atman or anatta.pdf

[lifeforce]

These pesky Thai Forest Theravadin 'idiots'

 

 

"The citta that is absolutely pure is even more difficult to describe. Since it is something that defies definition, I don’t know how I could characterize it. It cannot be expressed in the same way that conven- tional things in general can be, simply because it is not a conventional phenomenon. It is the sole province of those who have transcended all aspects of conventional reality, and thus realize within themselves that non-conventional nature. For this reason, words cannot describe it".

 

- Venerable Ãcariya Mun Bhýridatta Thera

[lifeforce]

"Of foremost importance is the citta, the mind’s essential knowing nature. It consists of pure and simple awareness: the citta simply knows. Awareness of good and evil, and the critical judgements that result, are merely activities of the citta. At times, these activities may manifest as mindfulness; at other times, wisdom. But the true citta does not exhibit any activities or manifest any conditions at all. It only knows. Those activities that arise in the citta, such as awareness of good and evil, or happiness and suffering, or praise and blame, are all conditions of the consciousness that flows out from the citta. Since it represents activities and conditions of the citta that are, by their very nature, constantly arising and ceasing, this sort of consciousness is always unstable and unreliable".

 

- Venerable Ãcariya Mun Bhýridatta Thera

[rideforever]

7 minutes ago, lifeforce said:

free-thinkers out there that don't take things on blind faith. You know, people who actually put in the hard work and do research, study and practice

 

Lifeforce clearly you and he are not interested in spirituality at all.

Free thinking and reading stupid books is not what spirituality is about.

You and he are everything  that is wrong with Buddhism, you are the establishment.

Because you just keep talking and analysing, slagging people off.

Nothing you say is based on practice.

He has never even done a proper breath meditation.

For chrissakes he is a fool.

Jeesh.

[lifeforce]

1 minute ago, rideforever said:

 

Lifeforce clearly you and he are not interested in spirituality at all.

Free thinking and reading stupid books is not what spirituality is about.

You and he are everything  that is wrong with Buddhism, you are the establishment.

Because you just keep talking and analysing, slagging people off.

Nothing you say is based on practice.

He has never even done a proper breath meditation.

For chrissakes he is a fool.

Jeesh.

 

On the contrary, I came to similar conclusions before I came across this guy's work, through decades of meditative practice.

[lifeforce]

4 minutes ago, rideforever said:

Lifeforce clearly you and he are not interested in spirituality at all.

 

I seek only the truth, wherever that takes me.

[lifeforce]

5 minutes ago, rideforever said:

He has never even done a proper breath meditation.

 

The truth of reality and the human condition does not depend on 'breath meditation'

[lifeforce]

"Good friends, see for yourselves the purity of your own natures, practice and accomplish for yourselves. Your own nature is the Dharma Eye and self-practice is the practice of a Buddha; by self-accomplishment you may achieve the Buddha Way for yourselves".

 

-Huineng

[rideforever]

It was a pleasure doing business with you !!!

[lifeforce]

What an idiot !

 

"Although all conditioned phenomena without exception are governed by the three universal laws of anicca, dukkha, and anattã, the citta’s true nature is not subject to these laws". 

 

- Venerable Ãcariya Mun Bhýridatta Thera

[lifeforce]

Question: “I understand that you maintain only one rule instead of the full 227 monastic rules that all other monks keep. Is that true?”

Ãcariya Mun: “Yes, I maintain only the one rule.”
Question: “Which one do you maintain?”
Ãcariya Mun: “My mind.”

[lifeforce]

On 22/05/2019 at 5:18 PM, ilumairen said:

 

Welcome back lifeforce.

 

 

Thank you.

[lifeforce]

"It does not arrive or leave; and has no location: neither inside nor outside, nor in the middle.

Unborn, undying, it's essence and appearance is 'just so; as it really is'.

It is permanent and unchanging.

It is called 'the Way' (Dao)".

 

-Huineng. The Sixth Patriarch of Ch'an.  He must also be an 'idiot', as he speaks of the same subject as the OP video.

[lifeforce]

The Zhentong Meditative View

According to the Great Madhyamaka tradition, there is sutra zhentong and tantra zhentong. In accord with sutra zhentong, the Great Madhyamaka system of the Jonang emphasizes Shakyamuni's 3rd "turning" or final set of discourses. This understanding of mind and reality seeks to reconcile the paradox of a lack of any permanent essence (sunyata, emptiness), and that of an ever-abiding permanent enlightened essence (tathagatagarbha, buddha-nature).

"Zhentong," (gzhan stong, "shentong") "extrinsic emptiness" or "other-emptiness" is a view of how the ultimate nature of reality is free from or empty of everything "other" than its absolute nature. In other words, a zhentong view understands how one's own enlightened essence is empty of everything false in superficial relative reality.

Zhentong as a view for meditation practice regards relative reality as empty of its own intrinsic existence. This emptiness of inherent substance or "rangtong" is considered to be solely the nature of relative reality while ultimate reality is understood to be empty of everything other than itself. Accordingly, transient tangible experiences remain devoid of inherent substance as the boundless luminous nucleus of Buddhahood within all beings remains intangible and invariant.

This enlightened essence is regarded as an indwelling permanently pure nature of awareness. It is the mind devoid of its distorted perceptions. Likened to an embryo or a womb, this essence (garbha) provides the potentiality for living beings to be reborn into completely awakened Buddhas.

 

 

Primary Sutra Sources

The most important sutras or scriptural discourses of the Buddha for understanding tathagatagarbha or Buddhanature are the ten "Essence Sutras." These ten sutras serve textual basis for zhentong. The Sanskrit names of these sutras are:

Tathagatagarbha Sutra

Arya-dharanish-vararaja Sutra [also known as the Tathagata-maha-karuna-nidesha Sutra]

Maha-pari-nirvana Sutra

Anguli-malya Sutra

Shri-mala-devi-simha-nanda Sutra

Jnana-loka-lamkara Sutra

Anuna-trapur-natva-nirdesha-parivarta Sutra

Mahab-jeri Sutra

Avi-kalpa-prave-sha-dharani Sutra

Samdhi-nirmochana Sutra

Among these Essence Sutras, the Tathagatagarbha Sutra appears to be the earliest occurrence of the Buddha's teaching on Buddhanature. The Maha-pari-nirvana Sutra, Shri-mala-devi-simha-nanda Sutra, and Samdhi-nirmochana Sutra were highly influential though appear to be rather late. In addition to these Essence Sutras, the Avatamsaka Sutra and the Lankavatara Sutra also explain Buddhanature.

 

https://jonangfoundation.org/views-practices

Edited May 27, 2019 by lifeforce

[lifeforce]

"I am the existential ground [gnas chen] of all Buddhas" and "... the root of all things is nothing else but one Self ... I am the place in which all existing things abide."

 

http://www.nirvanasutra.net/theallcreatingking.htm

Edited May 27, 2019 by lifeforce

[Fa Xin]

Nice quotes lifeforce. And it is nice to see you back. 

 

Do you have a particular branch of Buddhism you gravitate towards or practice? Any one stand out for you as more clear than others?

 

My own relationship with buddhism started as a young kid reading zen books. I seem to have ended up in Tibet/Dzogchen lately (it may be the pretty colors that attracted me... 😀)

 

Cheers

[mrpasserby]

Epic words were posted within this thread. Much truth forged from the bane of words that usually cause myself and others confusion. Accolades to the one who posts the truth sifted out of chaos. 

Sorry I had to post the above I was carried away by the cultivation caused by being exposed to so much clarity.

My comments on the actual thread'  I study Buddhism  at a personal development level. I think that the vidoes gave a smattering of information regarding internal  "heart-mind," developmental which seamed to take a different angle then the usual trend.   

Edited May 27, 2019 by mrpasserby
added content

[lifeforce]

8 hours ago, Fa Xin said:

Nice quotes lifeforce. And it is nice to see you back. 

 

Do you have a particular branch of Buddhism you gravitate towards or practice? Any one stand out for you as more clear than others?

 

My own relationship with buddhism started as a young kid reading zen books. I seem to have ended up in Tibet/Dzogchen lately (it may be the pretty colors that attracted me... 😀)

 

Cheers

 

Thanks Fa Xin.

I've practiced within the Thai Forest Theravada tradition and Soto Zen. Though I love the literature of Ch'an/Zen, and it's ability to 'turn the mind' through a few words, I don't jive well with the Bodhisattva ideal in Mahayana. I think it's not very practical in real terms, to not gain enlightenment until every sentient being is liberated. To be quite frank and honest, I don't want everyone to gain liberation. Utopian realms, to me, are not possible. But that's just me. It's the way I've always been. What works for others is different. 

 

[Fa Xin]

12 minutes ago, lifeforce said:

 

Thanks Fa Xin.

I've practiced within the Thai Forest Theravada tradition and Soto Zen. Though I love the literature of Ch'an/Zen, and it's ability to 'turn the mind' through a few words, I don't jive well with the Bodhisattva ideal in Mahayana. I think it's not very practical in real terms, to not gain enlightenment until every sentient being is liberated. To be quite frank and honest, I don't want everyone to gain liberation. Utopian realms, to me, are not possible. But that's just me. It's the way I've always been. What works for others is different. 

 

 

Very interesting take on the bodhisattva outlook.  Do you still feel drawn to help others anyways?

 

Also, do you find Zen and Thai Forest tradition blend well together?

 

Thanks for your time

[lifeforce]

1 minute ago, Fa Xin said:

 

Very interesting take on the bodhisattva outlook.  Do you still feel drawn to help others anyways?

 

Also, do you find Zen and Thai Forest tradition blend well together?

 

Thanks for your time

 

I'll always help where I can of course, if people ask, or if I come across a situation that needs action, but I don't go out of my way to help others. 

So, I don't feel drawn to that form of behaviour. I've tried, countless times. Trying to make myself a more compassionate, empathic person. It doesn't work. It's something I've lived with in all my 50 years. I'm not wired up that way unfortunately. So I have to make do with what I've got.

Meditation wise, the zen and Theravada aren't much different. Even some of the direct teaching methods in the Suttas sound zen-like.

Luang Por Munindo spoke about his experience with the huatou method of Ch'an master Xuyun, which he used to breakthrough a difficult stumbling block he encountered in his meditation. There is much crossover in the traditions, both recent and further back in time.

[lifeforce]

 

Very interesting video and is 100% relevant to the subject matter.

"Buddhism teaches us what reality is not. It is a via-negativa"

Edited May 27, 2019 by lifeforce

[Fa Xin]

2 hours ago, lifeforce said:

 

I'll always help where I can of course, if people ask, or if I come across a situation that needs action  

 

Sounds pretty helpful and  compassionate to me.

 

My view is that going out of our way to help others can be unnatural... If we are truly open to help others, they will sort of find us. And the more open and willing, the more people will find us.  Maybe the Bodhisattvas don’t go out of their way either? I don’t know, just some thoughts. 

 

Sorry to disrupt the thread. I’m turning this into “bodhicitta” instead of “citta”

[silent thunder]

Niether good deeds, nor evil will bring liberation. 

Chains of gold or chains of iron, both hold captive.

Agnostic Humanism, Atheistic Morality Driven Philosophy is all the stuff of the builder.

Nothing wrong with it, but not reality.  Mind stuff.  Imaginings, stories... the builder's blocks of faith driving the engine of samsara.

 

cleanse citta.

this is it.

 

This simple declaration of Pali is so centrally resonant with my ever simplifying natural path over the last decade of 'radical release'.

Release absolutely everything and what remains is...

 

Release all mental constructions, falsely held up, maintained, mentally constructed and projected...

release all and what remains is... what is.

 

cleanse citta

make extinct the builder, make the imaginations extinct. 

citta

 

 

It's closely related to what you're mentioning @Fa Xin on intervening in another's life to 'set them straight', 'help them out', or 'fix them'... which lately have been revealed in my life as actions based on mental constructs in the dust covering citta.

 

My youthful instincts involved a staggering amount of assumption; that my mental constructions, the interpretations of my perceptions and my subsequent reactions to them were the correct ones, were right... and that because of this assumption then followed myriad others in which I assume to somehow know what another needs to awaken and it is somehow my obligation or duty... I must, or should, (as if I could) somehow act on another's path, to fix it, or make awakening happen for them. 

 

In this are so many false assumptions from my experience now, it's staggering that I ever held such notions so firmly. 

 

Now 50 years into my particular experience of awareness... I can no longer fathom that I can know with my wrinkle of mind constructions spun of the illusion dust overlying absolute reality, just what is possibly required in another being's path to awaken. 

 

I now experience there is no changing of other... only cleansing of citta.

Other and self are notions of the mental constructs... the smoke castles of the builder.

 

Cleanse Citta... know absolute reality.  Know Self.  Brahman.

Banish the builder.

 

 

 

[Fa Xin]

2 minutes ago, silent thunder said:

Niether good deeds, nor evil will bring liberation. 

Chains of gold or chains of iron, both hold captive.

Agnostic Humanism, Atheistic Morality Driven Philosophy is all the stuff of the builder.

Nothing wrong with it, but not reality.  Mind stuff.  Imaginings, stories... the builder's blocks of faith driving the engine of samsara.

 

cleanse citta.

this is it.

 

This simple declaration of Pali is so centrally resonant with my ever simplifying natural path over the last decade of 'radical release'.

Release absolutely everything and what remains is...

 

Release all mental constructions, falsely held up, maintained, mentally constructed and projected...

release all and what remains is... what is.

 

cleanse citta

make extinct the builder, make the imaginations extinct. 

citta

 

 

It's closely related to what you're mentioning @Fa Xin on intervening in another's life to 'set them straight', 'help them out', or 'fix them'... which lately have been revealed in my life as actions based on mental constructs in the dust covering citta.

 

My youthful instincts involved a staggering amount of assumption; that my mental constructions, the interpretations of my perceptions and my subsequent reactions to them were the correct ones, were right... and that because of this assumption then followed myriad others in which I assume to somehow know what another needs to awaken and it is somehow my obligation or duty... I must, or should, (as if I could) somehow act on another's path, to fix it, or make awakening happen for them. 

 

In this are so many false assumptions from my experience now, it's staggering that I ever held such notions so firmly. 

 

Now 50 years into my particular experience of awareness... I can no longer fathom that I can know with my wrinkle of mind constructions spun of the illusion dust overlying absolute reality, just what is possibly required in another being's path to awaken. 

 

I now experience there is no changing of other... only cleansing of citta.

Other and self are notions of the mental constructs... the smoke castles of the builder.

 

Cleanse Citta... know absolute reality.  Know Self.  Brahman.

Banish the builder.

 

Great post my friend

 

It seems the more we clear ourselves, the more the world* clears, too.

 

*The world being the people you interact with each day, family, friends, neighbors and strangers that your circle overlaps with.  Not CNN...

[doc benway]

4 hours ago, lifeforce said:

 

"Buddhism teaches us what reality is not. It is a via-negativa"

 

Buddhism is that and so much more!

 

Sutra is a via-negativa,

Tantra a via-positiva,

Dzogchen transcends both

 

Ultimately, Buddhism does not teach us, as much as it asks us to engage in practice so that we may have direct understanding

 

For anyone interested, I would recommend Mipham’s Beacon of Certainty (or the explanation by Anyen Rinpoche titled Journey to Certainty)