Who is Loneman Pai?

[vonkrankenhaus]

14 minutes ago, GSmaster said:

And thats why I can see tremendous qi force in his lower tantien?

 

You can see whatever you imagine you are seeing.

 

But that, by your own statements, isn't based on any real understanding or facts.

 

If you never studied anywhere with anyone - you cannot really discern.

 

 

 

 

 

-VonKrankenhaus

[vonkrankenhaus]

2 minutes ago, GSmaster said:

I dont separate yoga, kungfu, meditation, neigong, qigong, daoism, buddhism and arcane arts, as I have already fused it all together into one path.

 

That's easy to do if you haven't ever really studied any of them.

 

Good luck with that "one path".

 

 

 

 

-VonKrankenhaus

[Starjumper]

33 minutes ago, vonkrankenhaus said:

A guy you never actually ever met and have never actually talked to or even seen in person?

 

Some can see a person's spirit from pictures and videos.

 

33 minutes ago, vonkrankenhaus said:

This is a guy who does obvious street performer tricks, which have been described online for a long time.

 

My teacher liked to do little tricks once in a while, and he was more powerful than the next guy.  He just didn't do them for public display, but rather to see if we were paying attention.

 

[vonkrankenhaus]

2 minutes ago, Starjumper said:

Some can see a person's spirit from pictures and videos.

 

But the best bet is that isn't unskilled, untrained, and completely unknowledgeable people doing that.

 

And that's who is posting about it here.

 

Rather, it will likely be the people who know what they are seeing who actually know what they are seeing.

 

And not so much those that do not.

 

 

 

 

-VonKrankenhaus

[vonkrankenhaus]

5 minutes ago, GSmaster said:

You can study things forever and never gain any abilities or become anybody with a big name in the area.

 

You never studied anything with anyone - so how would you know?
 

 

 

 

 

-VonKrankenhaus

[pegasus1992]

2 hours ago, vonkrankenhaus said:

 

A guy you never actually ever met and have never actually talked to or even seen in person?

 

This is a guy who does obvious street performer tricks, which have been described online for a long time.

 

And where and who with did you study any Qigong or Neigong to know how to discern or have opinion about any "energetic mechanisms underlying neigong"?

 

If you never studied this, why are you writing about it?

 

 

 

 

 

 

-VonKrankenhaus

 

 

I do not need to talk to him to agree with him, the mechanisms for what he describes are evidence across eastern and western disciplines....the western tend to do less work regarding the energetic application, and are moreso concerned with working within the spiritual domain, but that is neither here nor there

 

John Chang was doing these things before the internet was a mainstream thing....and hes not a scientist...and these things weren't commonly known...please jump off the argument that he's doing tricks, unless you can prove he was

 

As repeated above, the mechanisms are ubiquitous...learn how to read a Bible properly, you'll see them, learn how to read Buddhist scriptures, you'll see them, Hindu's, voodoo, hermetics, shamans....the list goes on and on

 

Nobody need have studied daoist teachings to understand whats happening here...rather as a person who claims to understand these matters, you should be absolutely aware that any set of teachings is little more than a reference point to an underlying set of mechanics, which have been seasoned and flavored by culture, language, perception and experience, thus allowing them to appear different across a temporal period.

 

These however, remain as nothing more than leaves on twigs connected to branches that stem from a trunk that is not detrimentally dependent on one focusing on a particular leaf, so your point is somewhat redundant

[vonkrankenhaus]

6 minutes ago, pegasus1992 said:

I do not need to talk to him to agree with him, the mechanisms for what he describes are evidence across eastern and western disciplines

 

Tell us which ones you studied and with whom.

 

Otherwise, without studying these, you wouldn't really know.

 

Other guy said he studied "Taoism" from the 28th Buddhist patriarch 1500 yrs ago, which was childish.

 

What exact "eastern and western disciplines" did you study and with whom?

 

If nothing - then that is what your opinion actually contains.

 

 

 

 

-VonKrankenhaus

[pegasus1992]

26 minutes ago, vonkrankenhaus said:

 

Tell us which ones you studied and with whom.

 

Otherwise, without studying these, you wouldn't really know.

 

Other guy said he studied "Taoism" from the 28th Buddhist patriarch 1500 yrs ago, which was childish.

 

What exact "eastern and western disciplines" did you study and with whom?

 

If nothing - then that is what your opinion actually contains.

 

 

 

 

-VonKrankenhaus

 

So you seem to be flirting with an argument from authority...  If you didn't study x or under x then you wouldn't know

 

you understand the logical fallacy that this is right?

 

Going by your logic, you are in no position to judge anything outside of your own discipline, because without studying these "you wouldn't really know" Perhaps retract that statement then we can get further into a discussion about areas of study

 

Regards with whom, I'm not sure if you get how esoteric arts work, but generally, they are secret....that includes the people who practice them....I guess you must have subscribed to a very public discipline?

 

His reference most likely echoed mine, that Bodhidharma teachings are reflected in Daosim, and therefore a part of it (whether you or anyone else likes to admit that or not is irrelevant)

 

For someone with so much knowledge, you are representing yourself in a less than knowledgeable way

 

Also you never responded to my invite to test you in a university setting....And here I thought you legitimately sounded like you wanted to do that

[vonkrankenhaus]

2 minutes ago, pegasus1992 said:

you understand the logical fallacy that this is right?

 

Nope.

 

I see that people who never studied a given thing generally know very little or nothing about it.

 

That why people who do welding on nuclear power plants must study and are tested on what they know.

 

I am commenting on things I did study for many years.

 

Yes, I did study in a known lineage. A famous one.

 

But anything real would do, any real school with real teachers who trained fully. You don't have that.

 

6 minutes ago, pegasus1992 said:

His reference most likely echoed mine, that Bodhidharma teachings are reflected in Daosim, and therefore a part of it

 

Neither of you studied either of these to really know.

 

So people could just look Wikipedia instead of this junk argument from nothing and believing con men as accomplished.

 

 

 

 

 

-VonKrankenhaus

[pegasus1992]

10 minutes ago, vonkrankenhaus said:

 

Nope.

 

I see that people who never studied a given thing generally know very little or nothing about it.

 

That why people who do welding on nuclear power plants must study and are tested on what they know.

 

I am commenting on things I did study for many years.

 

Yes, I did study in a known lineage. A famous one.

 

But anything real would do, any real school with real teachers who trained fully. You don't have that.

 

 

Neither of you studied either of these to really know.

 

So people could just look Wikipedia instead of this junk argument from nothing and believing con men as accomplished.

 

 

 

 

 

-VonKrankenhaus

 

That's honestly the silliest thing I've read on here to date.

 

A large majority of people I know would never reveal the names of teachers, or in most cases lineages...UNLESS they are well known. Actually I could go one farther and say there are a lot of people on here who would not reveal that information...Just look at the amount of butchered posts etc, people going back on their words. You think these things are widely spoken of publicly?

 

Perhaps in your tradition they are public knowledge? 

 

Further to that, there are a lot of people who learn themselves, and in the western traditions ( and some eastern), they are often  guided by spiritual entities, almost like a download of consciousness...this is quite common. This was one of the things I was hinting at with the invocation videos, only you are too perceptually biased to get it. Franz Bardons system is pretty much left there for anyone who wants it in 3 books, and the first book alone will take people further than most (not all) public schools ever would

 

While (physical) teachers can have and do have value, they are not the be all and end all, and there are other ways of reaching goals (if you know how)

 

Let me give you an example

 

Manly P Hall....he never studied philosophy in a university, he never had any teaching in freemasonry, nor any other arts...He was inducted as a 33rd degree freemason 47 years after he published the secret teachings of all ages, yet he never went through an initiation...nor any training...all self learned...yet just as competent as those who had studied it their entire lives

 

Your inability to think people can read and learn from books, experience and other "more occult" methods and whatnot is misguided.

 

Also you do not know what I have learned or studied.....but without knowing what you did study, I can tell your perception is largely skewed in that you have preformed opinions of what is and is not acceptable as experience

 

Finally , as your opinion borders on an argument from authority, it's a useless argument...so try harder please ( I seem to repeat that phrase to you over and over)

[vonkrankenhaus]

28 minutes ago, pegasus1992 said:

Let me give you an example

 

Manly P Hall....he never studied philosophy in a university, he never had any teaching in freemasonry, nor any other arts...He was inducted as a 33rd degree freemason 47 years after he published the secret teachings of all ages, yet he never went through an initiation...nor any training...

 

Manly P. Hall wasn't in any way skilled or even trained. He was given a bunch of money to buy some books, then write stuff about them.

 

"Yet for all his mental discipline, Hall was in terrible physical shape, with great folds of sagging flesh around his middle (Sahagun describes him as "avocado shaped"). According to Sahagun, Hall, when asked what he would wish for if he were given one wish, said that he would like to be placed in a swimming pool full of chocolate pudding so that he could eat his way out.

Nor did his vast knowledge help his personal relationships. Hall was married twice, the first ending with his wife's suicide; the second, almost 20 years later, was to a woman who was emotionally abusive and was classified by the FBI as a certifiable nuisance. Both marriages were childless. Sahagun doesn't believe Hall's second marriage was ever consummated, and there were rumors that he might have been gay. Whatever the case, this was a man who lived primarily in the world of books and ideas"

 

Not seeming very advanced at all, and what we would expect from someone with no real training or knowledge. In fact, quite ordinary.

 

 

 

-VonKrankenhaus

[vonkrankenhaus]

18 minutes ago, GSmaster said:

Zen and Dao is literally same word / thing.

 

Nope.

 

Study these for real some time and find out.

 

 

 

 

-VonKrankenhaus

[vonkrankenhaus]

27 minutes ago, GSmaster said:

The question is what you can do? What are you capable off?

 

Thing is, you cannot tell.

 

Not just about me, but anyone.

 

You thought a common street performer doing a common trick lit newspaper on fire with his "Chi".

 

 

 

 

-VonKrankenhaus

[vonkrankenhaus]

27 minutes ago, GSmaster said:

You are the one who can not see anything in the deep fog of illusions, believing fixed concepts and false ideas.

 

Such as?

 

Please detail my fog of illusions, fixed concepts, and false ideas in this post so we can consider them.

 

Show incorrect things I wrote here.

 

 

 

 

-VonKrankenhaus

[vonkrankenhaus]

1 hour ago, GSmaster said:

Just because cheats exist and you cant do it, this is not evidence.

 

It's not me. It's whomever has eyes.

 

Nobody has proved that humans can light newspapers on fire by pointing at them or waving their hands like we see in "Chang" video.

 

Nobody.  That means Zero evidence is know for that. Just assertions and claims, but no real evidence whatsoever. Zero sightings of it. many many sightings of chemical trick version looking EXACTLY the same.

 

But MANY people have done and proven this is possible the trick way using carbon disulfide and phosphorus. It is detailed in the 1962 book "Modern Chemical Magic". It is seen on street corners worldwide. Tourists see it every year all over the place.

 

 

 

 

 

 

-VonKrankenhaus

[vonkrankenhaus]

40 minutes ago, GSmaster said:

I am doing things deemed inhumane and impossible on a daily basis.

 

Yes, but that's just now.

 

In truth, everyone can improve.

 

Having a good teacher is a way to start, and apply much study and steady training.

 

Then you become humane and things become possible for you, unlike now.

 

 

 

 

-VonKrankenhaus

[pegasus1992]

5 hours ago, vonkrankenhaus said:

 

Manly P. Hall wasn't in any way skilled or even trained. He was given a bunch of money to buy some books, then write stuff about them.

 

"Yet for all his mental discipline, Hall was in terrible physical shape, with great folds of sagging flesh around his middle (Sahagun describes him as "avocado shaped"). According to Sahagun, Hall, when asked what he would wish for if he were given one wish, said that he would like to be placed in a swimming pool full of chocolate pudding so that he could eat his way out.

Nor did his vast knowledge help his personal relationships. Hall was married twice, the first ending with his wife's suicide; the second, almost 20 years later, was to a woman who was emotionally abusive and was classified by the FBI as a certifiable nuisance. Both marriages were childless. Sahagun doesn't believe Hall's second marriage was ever consummated, and there were rumors that he might have been gay. Whatever the case, this was a man who lived primarily in the world of books and ideas"

 

Not seeming very advanced at all, and what we would expect from someone with no real training or knowledge. In fact, quite ordinary.

 

 

 

-VonKrankenhaus

 

Right, time to put a nail in this coffin.

 

So you are claiming testimony from JC students, patients and those who tested him fradulent, yet you are trying to USE A JOURNALISTS (SEE HERE https://www.latimes.com/archives/la-xpm-2008-jun-21-et-hall21-story.html ) opinion of Manly P Hall as evidence he was nothing special, and using references to things which have ZERO RELEVANCE to his knowledge or ability no less......

 

Yes that makes tremendous sense...continue please  (FYI he was just an example of someone self learning material unavailable/incomrephensible to the public to the point of mastery)

 

 

Moreover, you were the one talking about hearsay and whatnot being useless, yet now you are citing it as evidence? The hypocrisy and double standard is indicative that you are no more near enlightenment than any other person

 

2 hours ago, vonkrankenhaus said:

 

It's not me. It's whomever has eyes.

 

Nobody has proved that humans can light newspapers on fire by pointing at them or waving their hands like we see in "Chang" video.

 

Nobody.  That means Zero evidence is know for that. Just assertions and claims, but no real evidence whatsoever. Zero sightings of it. many many sightings of chemical trick version looking EXACTLY the same.

 

But MANY people have done and proven this is possible the trick way using carbon disulfide and phosphorus. It is detailed in the 1962 book "Modern Chemical Magic". It is seen on street corners worldwide. Tourists see it every year all over the place.

 

 

 

 

 

 

-VonKrankenhaus

 

Ok so lets imagine you have a point here (you don't)

 

If scientific validity is what you require as satisfying the burden of proof, then that must mean that you have spent the last 50 years doing absolutely nothing ,except being lied to by a bunch of con artists and manipulated, whilst concurrently lying to yourself,  because qi has no current scientifically accepted evidence.

 

Also, because there is no accepted evidence, you cannot define the parameters in which it operates. In other words, the whole " I can do this with qi, but JC cannot do that" is redundant and false, based on your own logic that is.

So either its real and you are being hypocritical and having double standards for JC, or it isnt and you've been lied to, and are lying to yourself.

 

Which is it? Either way you are going to eat your words now

[vonkrankenhaus]

4 minutes ago, pegasus1992 said:

because qi has no current scientifically accepted evidence.

 

Actually, there is massive evidence about Qi in Western science. It is called things like "Electricity" and "Thermodynamics", and so on.

 

Qi is just the movement between the poles of any polarity.

 

And there is much evidence of how bodily polarities work in terms of both the above-mentioned aspect of science, and also in other regards - piezo-electric, magnetic, quantum communications, and so on.

 

My uncle is involve with such research at Harvard University, also working on this in conjunction with delegation from Shaolin temple.

 

If you would just study with real people, you will see what real people are doing in the real world.

 

Right now you seem just "wanking off". 

 

 

 

 

 

-VonKrankenhaus

[vonkrankenhaus]

2 minutes ago, GSmaster said:

People compare me with bruce lee, mike tyson and chuck norris, with only difference that my ability just does not seem real.

 

Excellent way to describe yourself.

 

 

 

 

-VonKrankenhaus

[pegasus1992]

4 minutes ago, vonkrankenhaus said:

 

Actually, there is massive evidence about Qi in Western science. It is called things like "Electricity" and "Thermodynamics", and so on.

 

Qi is just the movement between the poles of any polarity.

 

And there is much evidence of how bodily polarities work in terms of both the above-mentioned aspect of science, and also in other regards - piezo-electric, magnetic, quantum communications, and so on.

 

My uncle is involve with such research at Harvard University, also working on this in conjunction with delegation from Shaolin temple.

 

If you would just study with real people, you will see what real people are doing in the real world.

 

Right now you seem just "wanking off". 

 

 

 

 

 

-VonKrankenhaus

 

Oh I understand perfectly well how qi works, but there is no evidence among the consensus in western science that it exists. This is the current paradigm and will remain so for some time. Do I agree with it ? No, but I am not in the consensus.

 

Your uncle? More appeals to authority....give it a break and provide evidence at least once in this monstrosity of a thread

 

But  to be devils advocate. lets say you do believe that, regards bioelectricity, thermodynamics etc...

 

So Drew has perfectly explained JC's abilities. So by your own (new) standard, its entirely plausible that JC lit that paper on fire using Qi. Its all there nicely packaged for you....have a nice read

 

http://viewzone.com/spiritualhealing22.html

[vonkrankenhaus]

36 minutes ago, pegasus1992 said:

there is no evidence among the consensus in western science that it exists.

 

That is like saying there is no consensus that "energy" exists.

 

This is not true. That is very well studied.

 

What there is no evidence or consensus about is thinking that Qi is a substance of any kind.

 

There is no evidence anywhere that there is an unknown substance involved in energy.

 

Because there is no such substance. Qi is not a substance or a physical thing.

 

It is just movement between the poles of any polarity, which is what "energy" is, to everyone, including scientists.

 

In thermodynamics it is heat moving from Hot to Cold in various fluids. In electricity is electrons moving between + and - electrical poles.

 

This is why Qi can be and is many kinds of energy or movement of various things. In Chinese language this is the case.

 

I invented the definition several years ago:

"Qi is any movement between the poles of any polarity in any spectrum of matter or energy"

 

Qi is just the movement, caused by YinYang or "polarity".

 

Qi is no specific physical "substance".

 

If you study traditional way, you know this.

 

FOOLS are looking for special substance called Qi, and they will never find it.

 

 

 

 

-VonKrankenhaus

[Pyramidalcow]

Just now, GSmaster said:

I have many abilities nobody has, how many people know about this?

 

Nobody, not even relatives.

 

I am doing things deemed inhumane and impossible on a daily basis.

 

Do you think I am interested into proving anything or sharing secrets on how I do it? Or becoming a focus of public attention?

Great. How and where do I start?

[rideforever]

1 hour ago, GSmaster said:

I can create ball of qi, move it, and other people can see it and touch it feel and hold it.

Which means qi is the substance.

 

Of what use is this ??
What can you do that is useful ?

[rideforever]

34 minutes ago, GSmaster said:

 

Proves the nature of qi, more useful than harvard university and shaolin temple combined.

 

... well ... is that as far as you got, because doing a qigong dvd for an hour will prove the nature of qi, whilst also cleansing your body and making you healthy at the same time, which is useful

[rideforever]

Well I would concentrate on things that are useful for you.