Who is Loneman Pai?

[Starjumper]

10 hours ago, vonkrankenhaus said:

Field energy is moving energy.

 

It is making that field by movement.

 

What is moving?

[Starjumper]

10 hours ago, vonkrankenhaus said:

That was in response my statements: No movement = no Qi, and No movement = no energy.

 

I think the problem here is ya'll are feeling up different parts of the elephant.

[rideforever]

I have no idea what anybody is saying.

 

GSMasterBlaster : well big up you doing lots of work, I hope you will do something useful with it, you maybe be big and strong and kill other unconscious monkeys, but in the end I am not sure it is worth a lot.

 

10 years, 30 years, 200 years .... intelligence is a shortcut to so many years of work btw.  Having intelligent teachers.

 

Oh yeah, the chi.   Well ... the chi I am interested in is the vital force that rises into the body from the dantien.   This is me, and I can work with this to cultivate myself.

 

There are many other things in the universe but whether I would call them chi, maybe not.   It is easy to say everything is energy, everything  is consciousnes or everything is chi, but it really doesn't mean anything at all.   There are many forms of energy, consciousness and what not.   Only through careful study can you do something useful.

 

For instance ... by breathing into the dantien you can awaken the dantien.  This is done through "breathing into the dantien" meaning you consciously sense the chi in that area as you breathe, which activates the energetic body there, like a energetic presence of you that can be established in that area.   This takes time.   If done sensitively it can then "awaken", meaning that it is not just a energetic presence, but it starts to "think" or be "intelligent", it starts to respond to things and "know".

 

One very important thing to know is that using the various energy techniques you can establish new balls of energy everywhere around your body, creating new energy structures of all sorts, wrapping, rotating, spiralling, and whatever.  But this is not correct practice, it is not spiritual.   

Because your soul already has a structure that you can bring out into the light and discover what you are actually made of.  For instance the heart is in the chest.

 

Many people appear to be creating "false dantiens" in the belly with all sorts of multi coloured energy shapes and attaching it to Alpha Centauri and the Big Dipper and the Giant Turtle's Testicles.

But a "false dantien" is not something you should really be doing, because you already have a Dantien, the real one.

 

And those teachers who are teaching 500 levels of power-ups are most certainly those who have been very creative in the amount of false energy structures they create all over their body, which may give them siddhis and a lazer-shlong, but ... this is not spiritual.   A lazer-shlong made of chi is not a spiritual thing, it is more a testament to your ingenuity and lack of contact with your soul.

 

[pegasus1992]

1 hour ago, Starjumper said:

 

I think the problem here is ya'll are feeling up different parts of the elephant.

 

I originally thought this too, but I am unsure now

 

energy is required to apply force which then initiates movement

 

If qi is movement, as per the suggestion, then where is the force that initiates it?

 

and what about the energy required to to apply that force?

 

that model just doesn't make any sense to me 

[vonkrankenhaus]

1 hour ago, pegasus1992 said:

If qi is movement, as per the suggestion, then where is the force that initiates it?

 

POLARITY.

 

Also:

 

"scalar fields often describe the potential energy associated with a particular force"

 

"Potential" is just "possible" but not "happening".

 

If the field is created by an energy, it is caused by movement.

 

Energy is movement in a polarity, and Substance is static unless moved by energy.

 

 

 

 

-VonKrankenhaus

[vonkrankenhaus]

4 hours ago, pegasus1992 said:

I hope you do stop at this stage, because unlike every other thread you where you actually post almost near passive aggressive comments pertaining to things you don't agree with, someone actually called you on it this time. And the results are as such

 

Yes, people who never studied any of this have a hard time understanding it.

 

Look at the response to showing Zhou Dunyi TajiTu - Nuthin'.

 

Because apparently none of you knows what this is.

 

I do not expect any to suddenly know without ever studying.

 

And your egos are no problem.

 

So I just put the things here in case anyone else reading, or if it lights a spark, recognized, maybe someone will actually study something some day.

 

I will try to follow discussion, but becoming too busy just now.

 

 

 

 

-VonKrankenhaus

[rideforever]

Your diagram is very easy to understand :

0 > 1 > 2 > 5 > 10,000

0 : absence

1 : presence

2 : yin yang pair

5 : further details of the yin yang pair showing Wuxing phases

10,000 : all the rest of the shit in the universe arising from the 5

 

What does it show about qi ?   I have no idea.

 

What it shows is a general picture of the arising of the universe from the void, but it is a general picture and not one that is very useful for a human being.   

A human being if he wishes to return to 0 then he needs to understand how HE arises from the 0, meaning he needs to understand how 0>1>2>5 arises within his own personal structure.

Which brings us to the Dantien because it is the Dantien that is the gate between 0 and 1, for a human being.

And using this information and feeling the Dantien then you can personally ... do some spiritual work.

 

For instance you can embody the Wuxing that flows out the Dantien.

The result of this is that you come out of your insanity and actually fix yourself in a part of the river of Reality, and so you aren't lost in your endless diarrhea thoughts.

That is a first step.

The with the stability of Wuxing embodied, then you can return back through the Dantien first to 1, by awakening your Dantien, and then finally by returning through it to 0.

 

There you are, that is the entire theory of Taoism right there.

And you won't find better.

 

 

 

[vonkrankenhaus]

18 minutes ago, rideforever said:

What does it show about qi ?   I have no idea.

 

Taiji philosophy is a big part of Taoism. Worth studying.

 

This diagram shows many things about the arising and workings of polarity.

 

In the center of the Taiji you see the One (little circle) have, show, or display Polarity, symbolized by Fire and Water trigrams.

 

Fire and Water chosen because showing "true" Yang and "true" Yin.

 

Wu Xing is a calendar-observation system derived from the visible planets.

 

Western systems more use 7, and 7 is the 5 planets plus "luminaries" of Sun and Moon.

 

Wu Xing is thus "10 Stems", which is planet-named days of week, and calendar.

 

Notice in diagram Zhou write "Yang is movement" and "Yin is stasis".

 

This is the secret that YinYang, the Taiji, is not "reversible" or "reflexive". 

 

That is why the right side of your body isn't turning into the left side.

 

And it is how there can be stable "matter" at all.

 

There is much more in this diagram. I encourage everyone to study Taoism for real and see.

 

 

 

 

 

-VonKrankenhaus

 

 

[Starjumper]

4 hours ago, Starjumper said:

I think the problem here is ya'll are feeling up different parts of the elephant.

 

No, that's not it, you idiot.  It's more like this:

 

 

[welkin]

6 hours ago, rideforever said:

For instance ... by breathing into the dantien you can awaken the dantien.  This is done through "breathing into the dantien" meaning you consciously sense the chi in that area as you breathe, which activates the energetic body there, like a energetic presence of you that can be established in that area.   This takes time.   If done sensitively it can then "awaken", meaning that it is not just a energetic presence, but it starts to "think" or be "intelligent", it starts to respond to things and "know".

 

One very important thing to know is that using the various energy techniques you can establish new balls of energy everywhere around your body, creating new energy structures of all sorts, wrapping, rotating, spiralling, and whatever.  But this is not correct practice, it is not spiritual.   

Because your soul already has a structure that you can bring out into the light and discover what you are actually made of.  For instance the heart is in the chest.

 

Many people appear to be creating "false dantiens" in the belly with all sorts of multi coloured energy shapes and attaching it to Alpha Centauri and the Big Dipper and the Giant Turtle's Testicles.

But a "false dantien" is not something you should really be doing, because you already have a Dantien, the real one.

 

And those teachers who are teaching 500 levels of power-ups are most certainly those who have been very creative in the amount of false energy structures they create all over their body, which may give them siddhis and a lazer-shlong, but ... this is not spiritual.   A lazer-shlong made of chi is not a spiritual thing, it is more a testament to your ingenuity and lack of contact with your soul.

 

 

How do you know that the chi starts to think and know, if done sensitively. It just means that you are more sensitive to the energies and are allowing it to flow. I don't think it became any more intelligent than it already was. And i don't think it's about intelligence, unless there's another definition attached to the word.

 

What does it mean to be spiritual? Couldn't a person who meditates everyday, and somehow forcefully attained energy abilities, be more spiritual than a person trying to be 'spiritual' through their bias way they learn to flow energy?

 

There is no right and wrong.

 

I've attained certain degree of control of my energy, and can do multiple things with it. As a matter a fact, i've suppressed any further usage of it until i feel ready.

 

The idea of right and wrong, do this don't do that are all dogmas. Dogmas that yes you should listen to a certain degree. But to say this is good bad, right wrong, spiritual non spiritual. That just creates a ceiling to what you your actual spirituality :). An inner spirit doesn't want to be confined by rules, ideas, perspectives they never chose to live by, because it doesn't make sense. These are all created through mind. And unless that mind has explained the actual complexities of why do this or that through its actual inner consciousness, then these ideas of what's right and wrong are useless.

 

 

 

 

[welkin]

4 hours ago, vonkrankenhaus said:

 

POLARITY.

 

Also:

 

"scalar fields often describe the potential energy associated with a particular force"

 

"Potential" is just "possible" but not "happening".

 

If the field is created by an energy, it is caused by movement.

 

Energy is movement in a polarity, and Substance is static unless moved by energy.

 

VonKrankenhaus, can you describe what you are trying to point out? Is it that chi doesn't exist? is it that it's useless? Right now, all i see is a debate of what chi is. But what is the purpose?

[vonkrankenhaus]

1 minute ago, welkin said:

VonKrankenhaus, can you describe what you are trying to point out?

 

Taoism, YinYang, Qi, Wu Xing, Bagua, I Ching - just basics elements of traditional Taiji philosophy.

 

And how these relate to modern science.

 

I studied these. They are at the basis level of discussion of Qi in the way people here want to find - but nobody here has studied these.

 

 

 

 

-VonKrankenhaus

[vonkrankenhaus]

6 minutes ago, welkin said:

Is it that chi doesn't exist?

 

Qi exists.

 

But it is not a substance or thing like many seem to think.

 

It is movement between the poles of any polarity.

 

In the body, in outer space, wherever.

 

You must study and know YinYang to even begin to understand Qi.

 

 

 

 

-VonKrankenhaus

[Starjumper]

35 minutes ago, welkin said:

What does it mean to be spiritual?

 

No one seems to be able to answer that question.  Pilgrim also asked it.  You can find the answer in my book  

[Starjumper]

11 minutes ago, vonkrankenhaus said:

but nobody here has studied these.

 

  are you including yourself in this?  Just ribbing.

 

9 minutes ago, vonkrankenhaus said:

It is movement between the poles of any polarity.

 

In the body, in outer space, wherever.

 

Ya, but what is it exactly which is moving?  No one answered that one when I asked earlier.

 

Quote

You must study and know YinYang to even begin to understand Qi.

 

I don't see how that applies, when true knowledge is based on FEELING!  Show me the way.

 

 

Edited June 12, 2019 by Starjumper

[vonkrankenhaus]

1 hour ago, Starjumper said:

Ya, but what is it exactly which is moving?  No one answered that one when I asked earlier.

 

Quote

You must study and know YinYang to even begin to understand Qi.

 

I don't see how that applies, when true knowledge is based on FEELING!  Show me the way.

 

The substance that moves in polarities will vary. 

 

In electric polarity, it is electrons moving.

 

In thermodynamics it is heat moving.

 

Between Up and Down - MANY things are moving.

 

So this depends on the polarity.

 

And the movement is ALL Qi. 

 

Qi is that movement, not the substances that may be moving in the polarity causing the Qi.

 

YinYang is the study of Polarity. I study this very much for a long time. Very much.

 

Polarity is causing Qi. No polarity = no movement. 

 

In the body we have many different polarities happening. Chinese medicine, and Qigong, is the study of these and how they function.

 

 

 

 

-VonKrankenhaus

[welkin]

2 hours ago, Starjumper said:

 

No one seems to be able to answer that question.  Pilgrim also asked it.  You can find the answer in my book  

 

If i took a swing, i think i could get pretty close.

 

But i'm not experienced enough or have the credentials to make any difference right now. When does it come out!?

 

 

[welkin]

2 hours ago, vonkrankenhaus said:

 

Qi exists.

 

But it is not a substance or thing like many seem to think.

 

It is movement between the poles of any polarity.

 

In the body, in outer space, wherever.

 

You must study and know YinYang to even begin to understand Qi.

 

 

 

 

-VonKrankenhaus

 

I can see your point of view. It just doesn't seem like anyone is wrong here in reality. That is why i speak about what is the purpose of all this.

 

This is why i have stopped reading and studying things so much. True knowing is through experience. And true experience i believe happens when the mind is not in the way. To try to understand everything with the mind, limits oneself. This goes for both opposing views of course.

 

Do you believe that the way people are interpreting qi is hindering their understanding of it? If so, what is it that you understand about it that would be more conducive to utilizing it?

 

 

 

 

 

 

[vonkrankenhaus]

4 minutes ago, welkin said:

Do you believe that the way people are interpreting qi is hindering their understanding of it? If so, what is it that you understand about it that would be more conducive to utilizing it?

 

I do believe this mistaken interpretation of Qi as a specific special substance or thing or power or force just about completely prevents people from understanding it.

 

Including China and anywhere else. The scientific examinations, the modern Qigong customers, even modern "TCM" students, etc - messed up for anyone.

 

I think the traditional understanding of Qi is important to study and interpret correctly if you want understand what these terms even mean "Qi" and "YinYang" and "Wu Xing" and Wuji" and Taiji" and so on.

 

Without that, people are using interpretations from New Age tricksters and from believing entertainments and fantasy portrayals. Scientists sent on fool's errand to prove movie scenes and legends made for other purposes.

 

If you want to say TaiJi philosophy and YinYang and Wu Xing aren't important to what you doing - then you are not doing Chinese Qigong or Neigong. Call it something else. Without those, it will BE something else.

 

"Qi" - that exact word and concept is Chinese and determined over a long history.

 

That is the one I am looking at and am interested in explaining, and in a good modern way as possible.

 

 

 

 

-VonKrankenhaus

[welkin]

2 minutes ago, vonkrankenhaus said:

I think the traditional understanding of Qi is important to study and interpret correctly if you want understand what these terms even mean "Qi" and "YinYang" and "Wu Xing" and Wuji" and Taiji" and so on.

 

Without that, people are using interpretations from New Age tricksters and from believing entertainments and fantasy portrayals. Scientists sent on fool's errand to prove movie scenes and legends made for other purposes.

 

If you want to say TaiJi philosophy and YinYang and Wu Xing aren't important to what you doing - then you are not doing Chinese Qigong or Neigong. Call it something else. Without those, it will BE something else.

 

"Qi" - that exact word and concept is Chinese and determined over a long history.

 

That is the one I am looking at and am interested in explaining, and in a good modern way as possible

 

So then what is the real Qi you're talking about used for?

 

[vonkrankenhaus]

10 minutes ago, welkin said:

So then what is the real Qi you're talking about used for?

 

It is all movements and has resulted in all manifest existence.

 

And things like electricity that we can see every day.

 

This is like asking what is "energy" and "movement" used for.

 

But Qi you probably here for is all Qi happening in the body, in a human being.

 

So we study YinYang in the body and between body and overall environment.

 

Inside body we use the YinYang of the channels and organs.

 

We relate this to outside the body with Wu Xing, and also using Bagua and I Ching.

 

These are showing movements in polarities, and also they are timekeeping reference originally based on the planets and stars, particular the Pole Stars. This is what calendar comes from. Used to make empirical observations for a long time.

 

We use all of this to understand "Tao" - the way it all works.

 

What can you do with this?

 

You can manage yourself and family and live here on this planet almost indefinitely as Humanity.

 

 

 

 

 

-VonKrankenhaus

[Starjumper]

7 hours ago, Starjumper said:

 

No, that's not it, you idiot.  It's more like this:

 

 

 

No, you dolt, it's like this:

 

 

or like this:

 

or it was

Edited June 13, 2019 by Starjumper

[Starjumper]

2 hours ago, vonkrankenhaus said:

The substance that moves in polarities will vary. 

 

In electric polarity, it is electrons moving.

 

In thermodynamics it is heat moving.

 

Between Up and Down - MANY things are moving.

 

So this depends on the polarity.

 

And the movement is ALL Qi. 

 

Qi is that movement, not the substances that may be moving in the polarity causing the Qi.

 

YinYang is the study of Polarity. I study this very much for a long time. Very much.

 

Polarity is causing Qi. No polarity = no movement. 

 

In the body we have many different polarities happening. Chinese medicine, and Qigong, is the study of these and how they function.

 

That was pretty damn good, well said, Bravo!

 

but ...

 

2 hours ago, vonkrankenhaus said:

In electric polarity, it is electrons moving.

 

In thermodynamics it is heat moving.

 

I was thinking in terms of energy fields, silly me.  Energy fields that exist in the air.  In people there is an electric flow..

 

Energy fields, for people, are all about emitted chi, whether for healing others or for the Jedi stuff.

 

 So for electricity it's electrons moving through metal or people, but what about an electric field?  Electric fields exist without the flow of electrons and yet they cause force of attraction or repulsion on objects emitting the fields.

 

Same thing in thermodynamics, what's moving is light, as infrared heat up to ultraviolet and X-rays.

 

The problems are as follows, nobody knows precisely how electric fields create force, nor magnetic fields either.  They can throw numbers at you but no one really knows why it works like that.  NObody.

 

Except for me,  

 

and I'm not telling  

 

because the telling of it misses what can only be felt ... plus I don't want to give away anything that took me thirty years to figure out.  Well, a good chunk of the thirty years was trying to figure out which exercises did what and why and which ones I should use more at any given point.  Do you think Sai Baba could tell you exactly how he makes objects materialize out of thin air?  It's not possible.

 

See how I can write a whole bunch while saying almost nothing?  I'm getting as good as Moretalk.

 

In thermodynamics, it's light, and light can exert both force and heat.  But what is light?  Nobody really knows.

 

It's like, something gets all hot and bothered, with potential you say?  ... and so it fires off a piece of light.  But what is it?   They call it a quanta, a packet of waves.  A single quanta can go through two different slits at the same time, sometimes it acts like a particle, and sometimes it acts like a wave, and how it acts depends on how you look at it.

 

They call it electromagnetic waves, the quanta move in waves, but they aren't really like waves are they, because there is no surface like water to make waves.  Rather, a quanta consists of an area of space that is actually vibrations in the fabric of the universe, of space time, a small area of contraction and expansion.  When it gets fired off, it's like Boing, it immediately accelerates to the speed of light in a billionth of an inch, limited to the speed of light.  Limited, no doubt by its mass, which when it impacts a surface turns into heat.  Because it has kinetic energy = )

 

I hope I didn't speak too much, and confuse anybody.  YAhahaha.

 

Edited June 13, 2019 by Starjumper

[rideforever]

8 hours ago, vonkrankenhaus said:

There is much more in this diagram. I encourage everyone to study Taoism for real and see.

 

I don't see anything useful in your description, unless you are interested academically.

 

If you are spiritual and wish for enlightenment then only thing you need to know is how you as a being is formed and how the chain of creation works within your own structure.   From that you can comprehend how to move from deluded-mind to reality and work your way back to the source.

 

Anything else is tourism.

 

@welkin

 

How do I know that the Dantien becomes intelligent ?

That's the whole point, that's why people talk of the Dantien in taichi for instance.

It is not "the chi" that becomes intelligent it is the Dantien which is a part of your soul, the part of your soul that is in the belly rather than in the chest or head.   

You become intelligent, in the belly.

When the Dantien starts to sniff danger or opportunity that is intelligence, it is not mechanical.

 

There certainly is right and wrong.

That is the basis of intelligence.

Getting run over in traffic is wrong, being healthy is right.

Being intelligent is right, being foolish is wrong.

If you think differently you have simply lobotomized yourself.

 

When you say you have attained a certain degree of your energy .. what do you mean, that you have learned to walk ?

Everybody can walk.

 

Control is what the false self does as it clings on, and prevents what is real from being born.

 

[vonkrankenhaus]

1 hour ago, Starjumper said:

 So for electricity it's electrons moving through metal or people, but what about an electric field?  Electric fields exist without the flow of electrons and yet they cause force of attraction or repulsion on objects emitting the fields.

 

You might want to review electricity in a text book, just for reference.

 

If it's an electric field, electrons are moving in it.

 

 

1 hour ago, Starjumper said:

In thermodynamics, it's light,

 

No, it's heat.

 

"Thermo" = "heat". "Dynamics" = "Movements"

 

The movements of Heat. The "Qi" of Heat.

 

 

 

 

-VonKrankenhaus