Who is Loneman Pai?

[vonkrankenhaus]

1 hour ago, Starjumper said:

Do you think Sai Baba could tell you exactly how he makes objects materialize out of thin air?

 

I think anyone could, because you can SEE how he does it:
 

 

 

 

 

-VonKrankenhaus

[Walker]

15 hours ago, Starjumper said:

 

I think the problem here is ya'll are feeling up different parts of the elephant.

 

Real problem is both sides are dead convinced they got the trunk, which means sooner or later somebody's finna get a ten gallon surprise.

 

Bright side? Never be short on 精 again...

Edited June 13, 2019 by Walker

[welkin]

4 hours ago, rideforever said:

How do I know that the Dantien becomes intelligent ?

That's the whole point, that's why people talk of the Dantien in taichi for instance.

It is not "the chi" that becomes intelligent it is the Dantien which is a part of your soul, the part of your soul that is in the belly rather than in the chest or head.   

You become intelligent, in the belly.

When the Dantien starts to sniff danger or opportunity that is intelligence, it is not mechanical.

 

There certainly is right and wrong.

That is the basis of intelligence.

Getting run over in traffic is wrong, being healthy is right.

Being intelligent is right, being foolish is wrong.

If you think differently you have simply lobotomized yourself.

 

When you say you have attained a certain degree of your energy .. what do you mean, that you have learned to walk ?

Everybody can walk.

 

Control is what the false self does as it clings on, and prevents what is real from being born.

 

 

Okay, thanks for clarifying. I agree with your first part.

 

Though the thing about right and wrong. Living vs. not living. That's more about instinct of survival than intelligence in my opinion. I don't disagree with being intelligent being the right way. However, it would depend what type of intelligent one would want to be. I would say core or universal intelligence goes past valuing the idea of survival depending on the situation. What may seem intelligent to some, may be foolish to others. It depends on the host creating the opinion.

 

Well lobotomy comes from human beings doing it to others. And at the time, probably came from human 'intelligence'. If one lobotomizes themselves from an identity that wasn't chosen, is it bad? Maybe more people should lobotomize themselves. It's just perspectives. Based on the definition, I would say we've all in many aspects been getting lobotomized since we're young.

 

As far as energy, i can absorb energy through my hands, i can send it to another person, i can move energy through my entire body, i can levitate my hand if something right under, i can release tension at will, i can stretch without having to physically stretch. All things that have improved my physical life, mental, and spiritual.

 

I don't think there's anything wrong with control. I don't identify by that ability. Through personal experience, i know that alone is not the way. I've seen the power and presence natural moving energy is. But that's the thing, it's not about what is right and what's wrong. I could say that if i didn't learn how to control energy first by accident, i may have never stumbled upon the opportunity to learn to let it flow in its natural form. There is no right or wrong way and there is a right and wrong way.

 

More likely than not true intelligence probably lies in the middle of being okay with acting like a dummy (because there is intelligence in that) and being intelligent.

 

 

Edited June 13, 2019 by welkin

[Starjumper]

8 hours ago, vonkrankenhaus said:

 

I think anyone could, because you can SEE how he does it:
 

 

 

Your kindergarten level detective work proves something?  You can find out the truth of what he does in my book = )

 

but you wouldn't believe it.

[Starjumper]

8 hours ago, vonkrankenhaus said:

 

You might want to review electricity in a text book, just for reference.

 

If it's an electric field, electrons are moving in it.

 

That depends on if it's in a vacuum or not.  There's this great new invention called details, you're looking at the wrong details in the wrong way.

 

Quote

No, it's heat.

 

"Thermo" = "heat". "Dynamics" = "Movements"

 

The movements of Heat. The "Qi" of Heat.

 

Duuhhh, no, heat and light are the same thing.  Take my word for it, your superficial knowledge of what chi is comes from reading too much written by blithering idiots who understand nothing and can only see a few results.  They don't see many results because they're so fricking thick.

 

It is evident you are not able to have a sensible discussion about anything with depth at this time, so I'll leave you guys to your circus now.

 

Read about electricity HA!

 

Ya'll have a nice ass day now.

Edited June 13, 2019 by Starjumper

[pegasus1992]

19 hours ago, vonkrankenhaus said:

 

Yes, people who never studied any of this have a hard time understanding it.

 

Look at the response to showing Zhou Dunyi TajiTu - Nuthin'.

 

Because apparently none of you knows what this is.

 

I do not expect any to suddenly know without ever studying.

 

And your egos are no problem.

 

So I just put the things here in case anyone else reading, or if it lights a spark, recognized, maybe someone will actually study something some day.

 

I will try to follow discussion, but becoming too busy just now.

 

 

 

 

-VonKrankenhaus

 

Hermeticism is and has been my area for some time...much taoist teachings are easily understood from it..but we, and let me make this clear ARE NOT TALKING ABOUT PHILOSOPHY. This is a discussion pertaining to Qi, or more specifically the manifestation of Yin and Yang Qi

 

 

14 hours ago, vonkrankenhaus said:

 

Taoism, YinYang, Qi, Wu Xing, Bagua, I Ching - just basics elements of traditional Taiji philosophy.

 

And how these relate to modern science.

 

I studied these. They are at the basis level of discussion of Qi in the way people here want to find - but nobody here has studied these.

 

 

 

 

-VonKrankenhaus

 

You can study whatever you like...it makes ZERO DIFFERENCE...that's the equivalent of saying, I studied a near death experience, therefore I know what it is etc...Sam Parnia has tried that, and been made look stupid on several occasions

 

 

11 hours ago, vonkrankenhaus said:

 

I do believe this mistaken interpretation of Qi as a specific special substance or thing or power or force just about completely prevents people from understanding it.

 

Including China and anywhere else. The scientific examinations, the modern Qigong customers, even modern "TCM" students, etc - messed up for anyone.

 

I think the traditional understanding of Qi is important to study and interpret correctly if you want understand what these terms even mean "Qi" and "YinYang" and "Wu Xing" and Wuji" and Taiji" and so on.

 

Without that, people are using interpretations from New Age tricksters and from believing entertainments and fantasy portrayals. Scientists sent on fool's errand to prove movie scenes and legends made for other purposes.

 

If you want to say TaiJi philosophy and YinYang and Wu Xing aren't important to what you doing - then you are not doing Chinese Qigong or Neigong. Call it something else. Without those, it will BE something else.

 

"Qi" - that exact word and concept is Chinese and determined over a long history.

 

That is the one I am looking at and am interested in explaining, and in a good modern way as possible.

 

 

 

 

-VonKrankenhaus

 

Every esoteric teaching from every location talks about Qi ( or whatever label you want) as exactly what you think it is not...either they are all wrong or you are.....and I am pretty certain it's you.

 

9 hours ago, Starjumper said:

 

That was pretty damn good, well said, Bravo!

 

but ...

 

 

I was thinking in terms of energy fields, silly me.  Energy fields that exist in the air.  In people there is an electric flow..

 

Energy fields, for people, are all about emitted chi, whether for healing others or for the Jedi stuff.

 

 So for electricity it's electrons moving through metal or people, but what about an electric field?  Electric fields exist without the flow of electrons and yet they cause force of attraction or repulsion on objects emitting the fields.

 

Same thing in thermodynamics, what's moving is light, as infrared heat up to ultraviolet and X-rays.

 

The problems are as follows, nobody knows precisely how electric fields create force, nor magnetic fields either.  They can throw numbers at you but no one really knows why it works like that.  NObody.

 

Except for me,  

 

and I'm not telling  

 

because the telling of it misses what can only be felt ... plus I don't want to give away anything that took me thirty years to figure out.  Well, a good chunk of the thirty years was trying to figure out which exercises did what and why and which ones I should use more at any given point.  Do you think Sai Baba could tell you exactly how he makes objects materialize out of thin air?  It's not possible.

 

See how I can write a whole bunch while saying almost nothing?  I'm getting as good as Moretalk.

 

In thermodynamics, it's light, and light can exert both force and heat.  But what is light?  Nobody really knows.

 

It's like, something gets all hot and bothered, with potential you say?  ... and so it fires off a piece of light.  But what is it?   They call it a quanta, a packet of waves.  A single quanta can go through two different slits at the same time, sometimes it acts like a particle, and sometimes it acts like a wave, and how it acts depends on how you look at it.

 

They call it electromagnetic waves, the quanta move in waves, but they aren't really like waves are they, because there is no surface like water to make waves.  Rather, a quanta consists of an area of space that is actually vibrations in the fabric of the universe, of space time, a small area of contraction and expansion.  When it gets fired off, it's like Boing, it immediately accelerates to the speed of light in a billionth of an inch, limited to the speed of light.  Limited, no doubt by its mass, which when it impacts a surface turns into heat.  Because it has kinetic energy = )

 

I hope I didn't speak too much, and confuse anybody.  YAhahaha.

 

 

Read the bolded part 100 time over, then another 100, then another 100

 

Until you start to get it 

 

Kosta Danoas echoed similar things a long time ago

 

"Last year john wanted to show me what the yang was like. It was night. He had just finished playing Ping-Pong with Johann, as they do every evening Sifu took the Ping-Pong ball in his left hand and held it in the center of his palm He opened his hands and held his right palm about two feet away. Suddenly the ball pulsed with a bluish-violet light in made a noise, too, sort of like a canary singing. Bluish white sparks flew from the ball toward his right palm, they were like miniature lightning bolts. He kept it up for a few seconds and then handed me the ball. It wasn't overly hot, but it was warm. I did my usual thing and cut it in half on the spot, which pissed off everybody because it was the last ball in the house and they wanted to continue their game. But I had to make sure that there wasn't any circuitry inside the ball.,' "Big trouble in Little China 'Handoko said, referring to a similar scene in the opening sequence of the film  by John Carpenter. "Yeah," l nodded, but my mind was elsewhere. I was thinking, as I had the evening of that particular demonstration, of Wilhelm Reicht's work in the 1940s and 1950s. Reich had stipulated that the particles of the unknown lifeforce he had discovered, which he had called the orgone bions, were blue. This was almost the same color the yang ch'i had become before rny very eyes when my teacher bad contained it by force of will. And ch'i was, essentially, lifeforce. There were reasons why this particular demonstration was the most important of all that I had seen, It defined the nature of the yang ch,i. First of all, the Ping-Pong ball's surface was made of solid nonporous plastic, while the ball itself was hollow I had immediately asked John if he could duplicate the demonstration with a solid-rubber ball, and he had replied in the negative, the ball had to be hollow for this particular test to work. His statement implied that what I had witnessed was not a surface phenomenon. Rather, the energy had been transferred inside the ball, where it had shone much like a common lightbulb. On the scale of molecular physics, this also meant that the energy John called the yang ch'i was neither a particle nor a wave, but both. I was convinced that this demonstration indicated that the yang energy was a solar phenomenon,just as the Chinese classic stipulated. Wilhelm Reich had died in federal prison in 1957 following a witch hunt by the U.S. government during which his work and notes were seized- Had he discovered the yang ch'i and been persecuted by the powers that be, who didn't want such knowledge to become common?"

 

Really couldn't care less if you believe it or not, it's not like you've provided anything of substance to date, except as Starjumper pointed out poor detective work, coupled with tunnel vision I might add

 

50 years of practice? I do wonder indeed, what it is you were practicing and learning.

 

 

[Starjumper]

32 minutes ago, pegasus1992 said:

50 years of practice? I do wonder indeed, what it is you were practicing and learning.

 

You can't expect much from grunters, even more so from ones that also focus on "channels", they've been on a long detour for a long time.

 

He opened his hands and held his right palm about two feet away. Suddenly the ball pulsed with a bluish-violet light

 

... and he wasn't grunting when he did it.  He probably only taught grunting to the Gringos.

Edited June 13, 2019 by Starjumper

[vonkrankenhaus]

2 hours ago, pegasus1992 said:

50 years of practice? I do wonder indeed, what it is you were practicing and learning.

 

Yes, it seems that what I learned is unknown here.

 

I learned from childhood onward Chinese Gongfu, Qigong, and Neigong, and Taiji philosophy, Chinese medicine, and History, Chemistry, Physics, Western Medicine, and Electronic and Mechanical Engineering.

 

Gongfu lineage I started in from 70s is from Wong Fei Hung, Lam Sai Wing, Lam Cho, etc.

 

But it is clear that none of this matters to this discussion of the ignorant fantasies of modern men who obviously never looked up from their comic books and entertainments to ever study any of these subjects. And that's not a "claim". It's there in all the writing people have done here that nobody understands even basic grade-school science or even the slightest basics of the Chinese terms they are using.

 

Which is very interesting in and of itself, and I sincerely thank everyone participating, for showing me this.

 

 

 

 

-VonKrankenhaus

[rideforever]

1 hour ago, vonkrankenhaus said:

VonKrankenhaus

 

I for one would like to understand what you say but you explain it extremely poorly, often with very short abstract ideas with really very bad explanation.   It would be better if you used multiple real world examples and showed how your concepts work in each of those situations.

 

 

[vonkrankenhaus]

32 minutes ago, rideforever said:

It would be better if you used multiple real world examples and showed how your concepts work in each of those situations.

 

In describing Qi as movement between the poles of any polarity, I offered the real world examples of Electricity and Thermodynamics -- how they also work.

 

Ever use a battery?  The battery exhibit electrical polarity in its + and - poles, and electrons move in this polarity from the - pole to the + pole. The electrons are not the Qi. They are physical substance being moved by the polarity. The movement itself is Qi, not the substance. The polarity is the "Jing" of the battery. When exhausted, no more Qi.

 

Heat too, the movements or Qi of heat is Thermodynamics, and heat moves in the polarity of Hot/Cold from Hot to Cold. Once they equal, Jing is gone, and Qi stops. All temperature is then equal, so no polarity is there once the polarity or Jing is exhausted by the movement and mixing of Hot and Cold.

 

Tell me any "concepts" I show that you want explained and I will try to more fully explain.

 

 

 

 

-VonKrankenhaus

[rideforever]

35 minutes ago, vonkrankenhaus said:

Tell me any "concepts" I show that you want explained and I will try to more fully explain.

 

Okay, well I think the interesting things are how your concepts relate to human life, how we live, our function and purpose, and the spiritual purpose and spiritual journey. 

[vonkrankenhaus]

10 minutes ago, rideforever said:

Okay, well I think the interesting things are how your concepts relate to human life, how we live, our function and purpose, and the spiritual purpose and spiritual journey. 

 

The examples I gave of Electricity and Thermodynamics are happening in your body all the time.

 

Cells are in polarities with extracellular fluid and each other, and are creating electrical charges, and heat is moving in Hot/Cold polarities in the body.

 

By this and other things your "metabolism" and "actions" are functioning.

 

And these are also functioning in polarities and thus changing.

 

YinYang is "polarity". You experience this all the time - Day/Night, Awake/Asleep, and so on - all causing Movement or "actions".

 

Without polarity, there is no distinguish anything from anything - or even "thing" from "nothing".

 

The first Movement is what reveals Stasis. Before Movement, even Stasis is invisible, and this is WuJi - No Polarity.

 

Taiji means polarity. TaijiTu means "Supreme Polarity Diagram", which is like saying this show the most basic way of polarity, or we could say it shows how "Polarity" itself functions.

 

Wuji = No Polarity

 

Taiji = Polarity

 

This is how we discern all things, and all things from all other things.

 

So what I am showing is all about all functioning.

 

That is the thing the science I am describing was developed to explain the details and Way ("Tao") of.

 

 

 

 

 

-VonKrankenhaus

[thelerner]

16 hours ago, rideforever said:

How do I know that the Dantien becomes intelligent ?

That's the whole point, that's why people talk of the Dantien in taichi for instance.

It is not "the chi" that becomes intelligent it is the Dantien which is a part of your soul, the part of your soul that is in the belly rather than in the chest or head.   

You become intelligent, in the belly.

When the Dantien starts to sniff danger or opportunity that is intelligence, it is not mechanical.

 

This might be similar to what I'm working with doing Rawn Clarks Archaeous.  On the mid level of the program, astral-mental, you work with the bodies intelligences in different areas.  Waist down, survival, every day consciousness.   Belly/gut area emotional, personal and sensitive way of understanding, chest area more perspective and ability to add in heart...

[rideforever]

15 minutes ago, thelerner said:

This might be similar to what I'm working with doing Rawn Clarks Archaeous.

That's something different.

I am talking about the enlightened of the Dantien, or the lower centre of the soul.

[thelerner]

2 hours ago, GSmaster said:

If qi is not a substance you cannot accumulate it, then neidan, neigong, magic, arcane arts, yoga, radja yoga, and 10.000 other internal arts traditions cease to exist, because their practice is based on qi accumulation.

maybe.. but there's also the thought that

the 'secret' isn't accumulation but circulation. 

Be a river not a lake.. ??

[vonkrankenhaus]

4 hours ago, GSmaster said:

If qi is not a substance you cannot accumulate it, then neidan, neigong, magic, arcane arts, yoga, radja yoga, and 10.000 other internal arts traditions cease to exist, because their practice is based on qi accumulation.

 

You could study them to find out.

 

What you can find out is that Qi is just movement, and movement cannot be "stored".

 

This is not what is happening - "storage".

 

"Storage" of Qi just means able to maintain Jing - the Polarity that is causing Qi.

 

If you can maintain the potentials that movement happens within, you are maintaining Qi ability - the ability to have a movement in that polarity.

 

You can ruin your "inborn" potentials by ruining body polarities enough to lose structure.

 

You can change your "acquired" potentials by taking in food and other things

 

This is maintaining Qi ability - maintaining the polarities that cause movement.

 

The Essence of movement is Polarity.

 

The expression of Polarity is Movement.

 

 

 

 

 

-VonKrankenhaus

[thelerner]

4 hours ago, GSmaster said:

 

Its both, when you accumulate a lot it will widen the circulation, and when you circulate a lot it will accumulate.

 

If you do just one thing.

 

Accumulation without circulation is a blockage, and circulation without accumulation never ending bottleneck.

 that works for me. 

Sorry if you mentioned it earlier, is there any particular metaphor you use for chi? 

[vonkrankenhaus]

6 hours ago, GSmaster said:

They only work with jing in few traditions because it is the most dense qi which is easiest to feel.

 

Jing is an energy of 2nd chakra and below.

 

Why make such pronouncements about things you've obviously never studied?

 

Why bring such incorrect junk to a group that discuss Taoism?

Jing is not "energy" or Qi. In terms of a body, it is the various polarities inherent in both the inherited and acquired Substance of the body.

 

 

 

 

-VonKrankenhaus

[joeblast]

to chi or not to chi,

whatever the question

we're 10 pages of off topic by now

[vonkrankenhaus]

53 minutes ago, GSmaster said:

Polarity itself is a type of qi.

 

Please tell us what type.

 

 

 

 

 

-VonKrankenhaus

[vonkrankenhaus]

46 minutes ago, GSmaster said:

Essence  > qi > spirit

 

Only reflects qi movement from low vibrations svadhistana to high vibrations ajna.

It is not a movement in a sense but is transformation.

 

This just refers to the 3 body centers, the three Dantiens.

 

Lower one is Digestive and Reproduction functions. - Jing - effect your "constitution" & substance

 

Middle one is Circulatory and Respiratory functions - Qi - movement is happening

 

Upper one is Thinking and Nerve functions - Shen - "spirit" - stuff you cannot see happens here

 

These are not physical substances. Jing is not a substance. Qi is not a substance, and Shen is not a substance.

 

 

 

 

 

-VonKrankenhaus

[freeform]

It may not seem this way, but answering the question "what is qi?" has already lead you into a trap.

 

The trap was actually set by Aristotle...

 

But without getting into history, consider the assertion that "grass is green"... seems obvious - but what if you're colour blind? What if the colour of the light shining on the grass is orange? What if "you" aren't human - but perhaps a snake or a dog or a cricket...

 

So, in reality, all we can say about grass is that "grass appears 'green' to the human eye under specific light conditions"...

 

Perhaps it's Von's engineering/scientific background that has him reaching for an "is" for Qi... Actually, he's quite right in some contexts... Qi isn't some magical substance or 'force'... But similarly, Qi is not just the interplay of polarities...

 

Qi is a word that is used. It means different things under different circumstances and within different contexts. The Qi of Feng Shui is different to the Qi of Taiji which is different to the Qi of Qigong which is different to the Qi of Chinese Medicine etc etc...

 

Qi is not a descriptive term - but an operational term. As in it's a term that is useful to use to describe certain processes. The term Qi isn't true, as much as it's useful.

 

The most 'accurate' explanation of Qi that I have is "Qi is transformative information in action"... not particularly useful, but 'true'...

 

But there is not reason to try to get a 'truer' picture of these arts... The mental model of Daoist arts is already perfect... there's no point in translating things into more 'scientific' forms - this isn't science in the same way - it's not looking for truth, but utility.

 

So in terms of contexts... at certain stages of Neigong, when the Qi is sufficiently dense, it behaves just like a substance. IS it a substance - no - it's still 'change-information', but to all intents and purposes it is also a substance (just as light is also particles)... If you've ever experienced the movement of Yin Qi or Yang Qi in your body - or had it transmitted, there is no question about its substance-like properties.

 

In fact in Alchemical thinking, everything has an underlying 'substance'... or an aspect that appears as if it's a substance... Including the mind and consciousness.

[freeform]

5 minutes ago, GSmaster said:

When Qi reaches critical mass it behaves like substance

 

Yes - kind of. Although I'd call it density.

 

6 minutes ago, GSmaster said:

so you just verified that qi is substance

 

It behaves as a substance - not IS a substance. Being precise here matters.

 

But you're right that it has substance like qualities... Yin Qi has magnetic qualities (but isn't magnetism) and Yang Qi has electric qualities (but isn't electricity).

 

Sounds to me like Vonkrankenhaus hasn't come across any real practitioners of Qi emission - but this stuff exists and is no big deal once you get into certain circles. Also lots and lots of fraudsters too.

[Starjumper]

On 6/17/2019 at 6:42 AM, GSmaster said:

I dont know who said that Chang only works with LDT and not MCO, when last time, I scanned him he had thunder type circulation, energy flowing like waterfall.

 

Hot waterfall?

 

Edited June 18, 2019 by Starjumper

[Starjumper]

13 hours ago, vonkrankenhaus said:

Lower one is Digestive and Reproduction functions. - Jing - effect your "constitution" & substance

 

Middle one is Circulatory and Respiratory functions - Qi - movement is happening

 

Upper one is Thinking and Nerve functions - Shen - "spirit" - stuff you cannot see happens here

 

While these concepts do apply in some slight ways, it misses 98% of the real thing.  I say it is 'fundamentalist'.