Anyone familiar with this rare Qigong form ?

[freeform]

1 hour ago, Sebastian said:

could you please share your perspective on the principles required to get motion in these congenital meridians ?

 

Without coming across as overly dramatic - I’ll need to consider if it’s a good idea to share it in public or not...

 

1 hour ago, Sebastian said:

When you asked for the inner energetics, I provided what I felt energetically when going through the movements

 

Sure - I understand - and it made sense. It’s just not quite what I meant.

[vonkrankenhaus]

9 hours ago, Sebastian said:

I watched at 55 seconds in your video, this does look really advanced, and fast too. Thanks for explaining the principles, wow that is a quick succession of moves in the that video.

 

OK. No, this is isolated. You separate from the form.

 

So look at the "posture" at exact 55 seconds. This posture is held for 10 minutes.

 

This is part of a Qigong called "Mad Cow Drinking". People go to HK used to pay $1000 to learn this in early 70s.

 

A few other actions besides this one posture are in the complete exercise.

 

The whole form shown itself is a catalog of many Qigong exercises of different types. 

 

This one posture taken out, with some additional actions added, is very good exercise for MCO beginning, to move into the Governing vessel upwards.

 

I have literally seen students fly up maybe 10 ft into the air and hit stuff. One guy practiced under a balcony and he went up, hit head, and died.

 

Some time I will do a video of it, because it is in a public form. Looking to see it in the whole Tid Sin form may be hard for people not used to seeing this way of learning.

 

 

 

 

 

-VonKrankenhaus

[Starjumper]

1 hour ago, vonkrankenhaus said:

So look at the "posture" at exact 55 seconds. This posture is held for 10 minutes.

 

I like that type of posture, I'll try that.  As for the rest of the video it was way to harsh for me, hurt my eyes, but it could be very good for the soft tender youngsters ... as long as they don't pop a blood vessel ... which the young ones don't do ... that's reserved for the old farts that don't know when to switch over to soft style.

[vonkrankenhaus]

4 hours ago, Starjumper said:

I like that type of posture, I'll try that.  

 

Yes. That is good. Real way is body bent forward 90 degrees, flat, head and neck flat on back, all making a straight line. If you look up whole time when doing this as Qigong, static, Qi builds up in the Narrow Gate at the top of the spine, so you keep it flat for best results. The whole time. Keep mouth shut and teeth together, and tongue on up palate. After you done and straighten, then breathe belly and rub down Conception vessel in front a few times, shake off, etc.

 

The whole form itself is a really just a catalog. It is done in many different style by different clubs in the same type of Chinese Gongfu. For the public, it is dynamic. Those who have eyes see.

 

So that posture, it is taken out and combined with a couple of other actions not shown in the form, as a slow and static exercise that is done for about 5-10 minutes. There are many similar exercises "buried" in that one form. Some are very specific. The whole form is done more like Waidan in a public demonstration, and work that way as performed like in the first video. 

 

Here is another guy, different school, doing the same whole form, but in a different style:

 

 

 

 

-VonKrankenhaus

 

[Sebastian]

Thanks for explaining the principles V

 

Quote

This position squeeze Thrusting vessel into the Governing vessel. With back 90 degree horizontal (he is not all the way, but correct way is 90 degree), this changes the polarity to the head, making Qi fast. Arms out makes tension, cutting flow off from arms and focus into the Governing vessel going up to head. 

 

I learned a physical MCO from the same Master that uses this principle too. What do you think about it ? It's easy, so I'll share it here, no need for a video.

 

1) Step out with right foot to twice the width of your shoulders

2) The hands rest on your ankles which you grasp slightly (so your body is bending, forming a shape that looks like this =>  ^ (triangle shape, the lines are your arms holding the ankles, the head is hanging in-between the legs - you look like a bat hanging on a wall basically, looking through your legs).

3) Straighten your spine, look ahead of you as you breathe in, while you hold the ankles. You basically raise your head progressively from its low position until the body is horizontal and you have no move give from the arms.This is the equivalent to your 90 degrees position at 55 sec, with a different arm posture. The back is horizontal or mostly horizontal.

4) Bend back down to look back through the legs as you breathe out (at this point your head dangling between your legs again, which was the starting position, in the bat position).

 

So yours was the "mad cow" MCO. This one is the "bat" MCO. Do you think this is a superior approach to the first move I shared ? I think I also prefer the "bat" MCO to the 55 seconds one because it's gentler and creates spinal mobility, as it ripples the spine. But in terms of effect, I tried the 55 seconds one too, and the energy was much stronger. I think to learn the mad cow MCO you would need some safety measures, have a Master around you or something like that, because there is a strong rush of energy to the brain. But yours is definitely the most to the point, no-fluff, only Qi going up the back. Nice engineering for sure.

 

Quote

This position squeeze Thrusting vessel into the Governing vessel

 

This was interesting to me.... can you explain more what this means. Is it because the back is horizontal and you're looking forwards or upwards, somehow these two meridians are "closer" ? It feels that way at least, but I don't understand why, maybe gravity related ? And the benefit I assume is to get more flow in the Governing by squeezing the Thrusting towards it. 

 

[Sebastian]

Also, I was taught exercise 4 of the set I shared differently than the Master on the video, to further open the Thrusting.

 

Basically the palms still rotate around the belt channel, but the waist and chest stay facing forward. This is a major difference from the way it's shown in the video. Basically only the head moves as a result, right to left, and left to right. The result is it feels like you are pivoting from the central pole, and the rotation is not physical. The horizontal motion of the palms contrasts nicely with the vertical pivot from the central channel, and this symmetry really makes you feel the thrusting better. Practically I feel like an energetic knocking on the crown almost immediately after doing this. What do you think ? Wimpy or valid, from your experience, haha ?

[vonkrankenhaus]

11 hours ago, Sebastian said:

This was interesting to me.... can you explain more what this means. Is it because the back is horizontal and you're looking forwards or upwards, somehow these two meridians are "closer" ? It feels that way at least, but I don't understand why, maybe gravity related ? And the benefit I assume is to get more flow in the Governing by squeezing the Thrusting towards it. 

 

The whole pelvis when bent causes transfer in the front into the lower Dantien, and yes, squeeze Thrusting vessel Qi into the Governing vessel and upward with spine. Going horizontal changes the polarity between lower and upper Dantiens - reduces obstacle - while this compression happens. Compressed area "limit" Qi, open or relax area "allow" Qi movement.

 

Even though they do in public demonstration, you do not want the head looking up.

 

Look the face down so the back and neck are straight line. Otherwise Qi piles up at the top of spine, doesn't go up to head - so "blockage". So, keeping head down and mouth closed and tongue on palate, etc.

 

Of course, once Qi is moving at the head, you need to do something with this - that is another exercise.

 

We use it to charge up mid brain - image-making-realizing apparatus - then how to return this circulations down again, etc.

 

 

 

 

 

-VonKrankenhaus

[vonkrankenhaus]

11 hours ago, Sebastian said:

What do you think ? Wimpy or valid, from your experience, haha ?

 

It's gentle.

 

If do mine first for some time, then do this one standing you describe, I think maybe you could start a tornado. 

 

 

 

 

-VonKrankenhaus

[Everything]

I don't think you are suppose to talk or think about it. 

 

You have to do these, while being 100% obsorbed by the movements you are making so that you get lost in them, completely blend your awareness within and with them. Like a very deep meditation, but instead on a mantra leading into the most subtle awaress, or instead of just breath or breathing, you do a full body motion meditation where the full body in motion is the object of focus and placing attention and awareness upon as consistently as possible in order to allow the conditional being to achieve natural and effortless fully allowed re-alignment between physical and non-physical. Conditional and unconditional. And this will ALLOW the natural perfection of the motion to occur. 

 

So instead of being obsorbed by the breath. You become absorbed by the movement of your own body. You enter the conscious realisation and awareness of the energy in motion that is Source of All Creation. 

 

The core pure essence of all energy motion, especially for humans, can easily be understood through our relationship with water. 

 

The heaven ascension, open up the cold deep soul of the depth of eternal silence and vast boundless depth... The water extacy. 

 

But if I have to say these things, this is beyond the point. Just pick any movement you like and then do it with 100% CONSISTENT UNFALTERED ABSOLUTE 100% UNDISTRACTED awareness of your entire body.

 

So if your attention and awareness moves elsewhere. Simply return it back to the movement and present  moment becoming of the body. Full body awareness. 

 

And so you have to be sensitive to the energy in motion, emotion, as you are doing it. You are developing awareness of it, and allowing re-alignment of your physical being and non-physical being.

 

You can never just measure degrees and believe that that is the only way God's gonna express itself through you. Because it will always be infinitely more than that. So don't place infinite limitations on infinite value, by insisting it has to happen through only 1 way. 

 

You can experience energy alignment while moving your finger into your nose in slow motion. Now you're most likely going to get distracted, and this will make it impossible to focus, and so if you don't focus and align your energy, YOU WILL POKE YOUR NOSE. But if you blend your consciousness awareness with your very own greater non-physical consciousness, while doing it, whatever you will be doing, your finger will never reach your nose. You cannot make a mistake. Whatever you will be doing, will be valuable evermore. And you will move and go with it. The starting place doesn't matter. It's just an excuse to get started. 

 

You just wanna feel energy and move with it. And let it flow through you. And you move, because you wanna feel the energy in motion. Emotion. And when you feel the emotion, then you can be guided by it, why? Because the only reason you feel emotion at all, is because you have two points of relativity. Physical and non-physical. Conditional and unconditional. And if you allow these two to come into perfect alignment, you will be more powerful than millions who are not. But if you have resistance towards your allowing and alignment with this energy of all that you truely are, then it's not gonna happen. 

 

So if your mind is in the way, it's never gonna happen, because your mind was never designed to know how something is going to happen. Only to know how something has happened! So you have to feel energy in order to allow yourself to be who you truely are. Otherwise you are literally basing your decisions upon an old reality which actually no longer exists. It is outdated, if you ask your soul about it. Your minds ability to know is so limited. Just let that go. Really. Feel your way to it. You have to be 100% focused, you attention has to be placed 100% on what you are doing in the moment. And then, you WILL find the Source of All Motion, YOU WILL BECOME CONSCIOUS OF IT AND YOU WILL FIND ALIGNMENT WITH IT. 

 

INFINITE INTELLIGENCE, ETERNAL WISDOM, ENDLESS SUCCES, Whatever you want. 

Just know, that the primary manifestation of this will always be a good positive feeling emotional energy in motion. So if you let that be enough of an indicator as to how you are doing, then you allow the alignment to strengthen ever so more easily, effortlessly and fully. 

 

Most people wait untill they die before they allow themselves to go with it. And like this open up to the high heavens. It causes extacy like water particles ascending in to the high heavens under the bliss of the radiant sun, and fall back down in full release of all of that immense extatic energy. Coming to full rest again, instantly, and releasing all of that resistance and tension.

Edited May 23, 2019 by Everything

[Starjumper]

On 5/22/2019 at 7:28 PM, vonkrankenhaus said:

 

 

 

 

He's going to die young too

[vonkrankenhaus]

21 minutes ago, Starjumper said:

He's going to die young too

 

Actually, people who practiced this form for whole life have lived long.

 

Lam Cho, who taught the basis of the people in the videos I show, he live over 100, and teaching right up to the end.

 

Y.C. Wong, sifu in 2nd video I show, is about 87 now, and still going good.

 

Many others also - stay good from doing Tid Sin Kuen for many years.

 

So - all this very good for staying functional at old ages, for real, and not just guess.

 

 

 

 

 

-VonKrankenhaus

[Starjumper]

OK, were those guys making those ugly faces right up until the end or did they mellow out and relax with softer stuff later?

 

I'm familiar with how that kind of stuff makes people feel energized, but releasing tension is more important for me ... and I have soft ways of feeling more energized.

Edited May 25, 2019 by Starjumper

[vonkrankenhaus]

2 minutes ago, Starjumper said:

ugly faces right up until the end or did they mellow out and relax with softer stuff later?

 

Modern "qigong" might be like a dance contest or fashion statement.

 

But true Qi Work is about how work with - 12 organ channels, 5 Phases, 8 extra channels, 12 divergent channels, 12 muscle and 12 cutaneous "areas".

 

I look, I see what channels being made to do what, and how interacting.

 

Sounds - what organ resonates, and what tensions in sound effect what organs.

 

Face - dynamic tensions take efforts, then release  - that part is WaiDan.

Face - also connect to all organs channels - that's how we do face diagnosis of organs.

 

Someone else maybe looking for "Big Lebowski" or if having fun or not, or looks okay compared to people on TV, I dunno.

 

But it's science.

 

And, you know - some people struggling to remember whole form may make various funny faces trying get mind to work, etc - so comedy is there also. Sometimes.

 

 

 

 

 

 

-VonKrankenhaus

[Starjumper]

This is what I meant by ugly face exercises:

 

For building external strength it's fine.  Tension is a dangerous thing to play with.

[Pilgrim]

My first thought was constipation, fatal constipation 😁

[Pilgrim]

My second thought heart attack very soon.

[Toni]

I think this is a very interesting qi gong form, specially good for the back. The exercise in which he touches with one hand the opposite foot is splendid

[Toni]

@Sebastian do you still do this form? what are your thoughts now after all this time?

[Sebastian]

Hi Toni. I’d say it has evolved slightly, and still a great pick me up Qigong. Yup, I still do it, I’ve done this one as an adjunct to my Qigong practice for many years. I say I evolved it because I focus on the principles more - rereading this I was focusing on the technical aspects, but they can only take you so far. So I song and ting with this form now and focus on the principles more and the form not that much. But the form is still as potent as ever.

 

yup the one you mention is good for opening the lower back and stretching the sides of the torso. The entire set is really good for the back, which makes sense since it’s going after the 8 extras.

 

i don’t really know why, I can’t stop doing this one. Always feels good and balanced, breathing drops to really low, and have a good sleep afterwards.

[Sebastian]

On 1/16/2021 at 2:53 AM, Toni said:

 

I think this is a very interesting qi gong form

 

What do you like about it ? If I may ask ?

[Toni]

11 minutes ago, Sebastian said:

What do you like about it ? If I may ask ?

I like how it works the back, the first movement seems quite good, and the third too

[Sebastian]

11 minutes ago, Toni said:

I like how it works the back, the first movement seems quite good, and the third too

I love the first one too.... it is embodying the small universe, although I do it with much less intensity than shown on the video. I just gently bow the back and then come back to default stance and don’t bend over forward like in the video when the arms come down. If I do, it is subtle. This is the way I was taught.

 

Number 3 is like a baseball pitch in slow motion. It is supposed to open all the interlinking meridians in one pitch. All the weight is shifted on the leg opposite to the pitching arm. So one leg has double the weight and the other is floating inside, yet still touching the ground. When you come down with the arm in the wake of the pitch, you slightly touch the big toe of that leg which has no weight. And the entire time you stare at the middle finger of the pitching hand....

 

It’s a strange movement that does a lot at the same time. 
 

Of course this was before baseball was invented. Which makes me think the Taoists invented it lol.

[Toni]

14 minutes ago, Sebastian said:

I love the first one too.... it is embodying the small universe, although I do it with much less intensity than shown on the video. I just gently bow the back and then come back to default stance and don’t bend over forward like in the video when the arms come down. If I do, it is subtle. This is the way I was taught.

 

Number 3 is like a baseball pitch in slow motion. It is supposed to open all the interlinking meridians in one pitch. All the weight is shifted on the leg opposite to the pitching arm. So one leg has double the weight and the other is floating inside, yet still touching the ground. When you come down with the arm in the wake of the pitch, you slightly touch the big toe of that leg which has no weight. And the entire time you stare at the middle finger of the pitching hand....

 

It’s a strange movement that does a lot at the same time. 
 

Of course this was before baseball was invented. Which makes me think the Taoists invented it lol.

And what other qigong do you practice?

[Sebastian]

By the way, I meant *superficially* open the 8 channels. I don’t mean the form by itself can be a wonder pill.

 

This form will open the 12 meridians indirectly by subtly influencing the 8 meridians. Nudging them open maybe.... To get a real opening, it matters most how you are doing the form, and what practices outside. Freeform can provide more details about that.

 

But supposedly the form comes from immortal masters and will have a powerful effect on all meridians.

Looks like crap though, and I can understand people coming from that perspective. But you can try it on and see the effects for yourself.

[Sebastian]

1 minute ago, Toni said:

And what other qigong do you practice?

i don’t do anything fancy these days. let me think .... Morning stretch and baduajin type stuff, swinging arms practice, bouncing, dolphining the spine, Zhan Zhuang, Qi running, but mostly keeping mind and body integrated and flowing with Tao during the day. Practice is just the spice of my life, my life is the main practice. And I try to live it fully.