Contradiction ?

[Limahong]

1 hour ago, silent thunder said:

Incidents seem like events, which seem like... a mental concept, a bit of a story, with a beginning middle and end that are utterly arbitrarily assigned by the storyteller and thus, not a reflection of reality, but a reflection of the storyteller's interpretated projection of its impression of reality.

 

Hi Creighton,

 

His/her impression of reality... to impress/depress/suppress...

 

1 hour ago, silent thunder said:

From the perspective of what is.. what transpires and co-arising shift... not for me, there are no longer accidents, incidents, or events.

 

Sure... accidents, incidents, or events... are mere words,

 

From the perspective of what is.. what transpires and co-arising shift... don't we feel first?

 

1 hour ago, silent thunder said:

There are the co-arising stimuli that I respond to... my response, is my personal reality, but it's mostly story.

 

It's mostly story ~ only when shared with others? Otherwise ~ no story?

 

1 hour ago, silent thunder said:

No real substance.  It's all one interwoven fluid unfolding.  Any demarcations I perceive are generated by the storyteller and inherently unreal.

 

No real substance ~ to those hearing/reading your story?

 

If it is fluidity interweaving/unfolding ~ what/who can be more solid or inherently unreal than the story-teller?

 

1 hour ago, silent thunder said:

Guess i just admitted that my reality, is not reality... again.  I wonder how i can tell that? 

hmm... paradox for breakfast again!!... table of one??

 

I would also like to admit that... "my reality, is not reality"... I am a weaver who multi-task as a story-teller.

 

Table for one + one - be my guest...

 

 

- Anand

 

Edited June 19, 2019 by Limahong
Enhance ...

[silent thunder]

10 minutes ago, Limahong said:

It's mostly story ~ only when shared with others? Otherwise ~ no story?

Not as i experience it lately. 

Story arises as soon as stimulus triggers the senses.

Stimulus arises in senses.  Story is interpreted from senses.

Story is my personal experience of the stimulus.

 

We see something.  We intellectualize it.  Our experience of what is seen is no longer what is seen, but our interpretation of it.  Our intellectualization of it.  The story we tell ourselves about what we just sensed.

 

We don't perceive reality as it is, we interpret reality from the few partial signals that arise from our perceptual sensations.

 

We get only a fraction of what is around us in absolute reality in sensations, and from this fractional input, we generate an interpretation of absolute reality.  It is but a slice of what actually is, yet to us, it seems whole.  When I look around me, though I see only a fractional percentage of what is there, there are no gaps in my vision.  The picture seems whole, but is a fabrication, a projection of partial information into a wider picture, utterly populated with my own unconscious biases, expectations. 

 

Stimulus arises in senses.

It is only a small part of absolute reality.

Yet it is all of absolute reality I can interact with, so for me, it convincingly seems like all of reality.

Sort of like how it was, I imagine when folks learned the earth encircles the Sun felt, when going outside and not feeling any sense of motion of the earth.  It's counter intuitive to realize we project our version of reality from our Storyteller who interprets all stimuli and creates a story that I associate with absolute reality.

 

Naive Realism:  the mistaken notion that we perceive reality as it is.  We interpret signals according to our behavioral/social and familial conditioning.  This is why we find our breakfast foods normal and those of other cultures seem crazy.  Same with hair styles, wardrobe, jewelry, language, songs, passtimes...

 

Unless stripping away awareness to the core... we engage the storyteller, who tells us what the world is.

 

No sharing needed.  It's an entirely internal process.

[Limahong]

2 minutes ago, silent thunder said:

No sharing needed.  It's an entirely internal process.

 

Hi Creighton,

 

Yes - I don't tell/share internal story to/with myself... I feel.

 

It is now internally processed that I am sleepy... re 1+am at my end.

 

Good night.

 

- Anand

[CloudHands]

19 hours ago, Limahong said:

 

Hi CloudHands,

 

If I cannot find what I want/need (or don't know what I want/need) within myself ~ can/should I blame the TAO on the outside?

 

IT has provided life with sunshine and rain ~ apple trees give apples, orange trees give oranges...

 

 

 

I know what reactivated inside me this feeling of "contradiction"

Plenty of feelings. Mostly my grand father died lately.

I haven't be sad about it, long life, long path and huge cultural heritage which is both gift and curse.

His death actually reactivated that heritage which I can sum up in few words

Solidarity, justice, fairness, education and fighting.

Where you go with daoism and through its tools is understanding and acceptation -not only, not always- but the spirit is more about letting it go/move than resist to oppression.
I you don't see/experiment oppression in your life, good for you either you having a an easier life or being more enlightened or more blinded than I am.

I struggle to overcome duality, because I'm attached to the idea that we can build a better humanity and that fairness depend on us, human beings. That there is no fate in the devastating inequalities between that determine our life experience and possibilities.
Until a certain point I think the world is what me make of it, everyone, each one, at some degree.

 

But... This is losing the middle path, the big picture, in one word oneness and its fluctuations. That's the core of my contradiction finding the correct position between action and non-action. Mental absolute clarity (I can touch it) and humanist heritage (I come from it).

 

I have been reading you, many good points (I thank you all)... and I have been talking with my teacher this week end. He put me right on track. I can't do everything or be everywhere by my own actions, so as a human entity I have to choose what I do...
He said, if he'd came back after his life he'd like someone able to teach him tai chi.
Which I understand as, what you do is tai chi, that's already something, so... keep going.

One cannot feed 36 fires. One life story.

[Limahong]

4 hours ago, CloudHands said:

I know what reactivated inside me this feeling of "contradiction"

Plenty of feelings. Mostly my grand father died lately.

I haven't be sad about it, long life, long path and huge cultural heritage which is both gift and curse.

His death actually reactivated that heritage which I can sum up in few words

Solidarity, justice, fairness, education and fighting.

 

Hi CloudHands,

 

I can identify myself with you ~ re your identification/contradiction with your grandfather.

 

My Grandpa passed on before I was born. But he left behind a legacy that was both good and bad.

 

Why? Grandpa was  a black sheep who had made good from his mistakes ~ 浪子回头

 

 

I too have heard stories of Grandpa in relation to ~ solidarity, justice, fairness, education and fighting...

 

Additionally Grandpa was filial and compassionate... but he suffered no fools.

 

He died young and his legacy was passed down as both a gift and curse... especially the wealth he left behind.

 

However my generation, his grandchildren, has stood up anew with our own energy...  that has nothing to do with Grandpa's wealth... but his good memories.

 

I walk my own path and there is less contradiction for me. If there is, I am confident of being less contradictory as I have Grandpa's genes... he tried to be good.

 

Good begets good.

 

- Anand

 

Edited June 19, 2019 by Limahong
Correct errors.

[windwalker]

14 hours ago, Limahong said:

But of course... the wave is also water... as in ONE and ONEness.

 

There may be some confusion,.

 

Quote

 Hakuun Yasutani said our buddha-nature “is like the sea, and each individual is like a wave on the surface of the ocean.”

 

To elaborate, spiraling waves (our egos) are caught their own churn of self-centeredness. We view our borders as firm and absolute, our thoughts and feelings as ours alone, happening only inside the walls of our skin. But that's not even close to true.

 

Our bodies and thoughts are not only inter-dependent on the world around us, they are just like waves - fluid energy moving through the fluid fabric of reality. 

 

Edited June 20, 2019 by windwalker

[Limahong]

On 6/20/2019 at 9:02 AM, windwalker said:

There may be some confusion.

 

Hi windwalker,

 

Thank you for your angle from a Buddhist perspective ~ I can gel with it.

 

I am focused on the energy of ONE riding on the waves.

 

There is impermanence/boundlessness/... as no two waves are the same.

 

But there is wavy orderliness in the midst supposedly disorder.

 

Waves have patterns...

 

       

 

      

 

When I was working as a development chemist ~ I liked to go to the beach for inspirations.

 

There is order in Nature and The Tao ~ the apparent contradictions are there with reasons.

 

They can be felt intuitively over time...

 

 

- Anand

 

Edited June 22, 2019 by Limahong
Enhance ...

[Limahong]

On 5/15/2019 at 4:29 AM, CloudHands said:

ultimately no accidents, no more than any human-based concept.

 

Hi CloudHands,

 

I will try and address this post with my Grandpa in mind.

 

I have never thought of my being Grandpa's descendant as an accident but as a karmic  progression with my Dad as intermediary.

Since young I can feel my connection to Grandpa/Dad as energy but not as a concept. Up to now I still think of them both with my first chakra ~ the stirring at my perineum is very real to me. Almost second Nature...

 

On 5/15/2019 at 4:29 AM, CloudHands said:

Even the idea of "direction" may have no reality beyond what we expect practically in our daily life. After 2 millenniums scientists realized the Euclidean straight line appears to be the "improbable" case at a "universe" scale.

 

Despite the vicissitudes of living ~ I can always sense the "direction" of living forward. It helps ~ knowing/sensing that I have a firm root chakra.

 

Not all at the same time,

Yes ~ Grandpa, Dad and myself are not of "the same time",

 

Spring flowers in autumn fade,

Flowers fade in autumn for a rest but not to die ~ the next spring will come,

 

Pushed to wax until it wanes.

I only wax lyrical...

 

- Anand

[CloudHands]

10 hours ago, Limahong said:

 

Hi CloudHands,

 

I will try and address this post with my Grandpa in mind.

 

I have never thought of my being Grandpa's descendant as an accident but as a karmic  progression with my Dad as intermediary.

Since young I can feel my connection to Grandpa/Dad as energy but not as a concept. Up to now I still think of them both with my first chakra ~ the stirring at my perineum is very real to me. Almost second Nature...

 

 

Despite the vicissitudes of living ~ I can always sense the "direction" of living forward. It helps ~ knowing/sensing that I have a firm root chakra.

 

Not all at the same time,

Yes ~ Grandpa, Dad and myself are not of "the same time",

 

Spring flowers in autumn fade,

Flowers fade in autumn for a rest but not to die ~ the next spring will come,

 

Pushed to wax until it wanes.

I only wax lyrical...

 

- Anand

 

I can feel you kindness,  for that I thank you

[Limahong]

On 5/24/2019 at 5:01 AM, CloudHands said:

I may struggle a little with the idea of a pointless growth of that... size. When it comes from a philosophy/religion that puts so much emphasize on not doing too much, let's say the display is anything but minimalist.

 

Hi CloudHands,

 

When I put quality over quantity, size does not matter.

I am more inclined to associate philosophy/religion with wisdom ~ doing the necessary in relation to my needs.

 

On 5/24/2019 at 5:01 AM, CloudHands said:

To my knowledge daoism brings nothing at the table about the outcome of all that life struggle it realizes effortlessly, neither the why(?!) question.

 

By and large, Life is to me a question without an answer.

If silence/peace can be an answer ~ what question(s) will I ask?

 

On 5/24/2019 at 5:01 AM, CloudHands said:

Mostly... it's about the how(?), how things are and how to deal with it and that's quite something but sometimes I'm hungry for other('s) answers

 

Too many questions ~ three 'hows'.

Too much ~ other('s) answers.

 

- Anand

 

[Limahong]

On 5/24/2019 at 7:01 PM, CloudHands said:

It's deeply linked to emotional balance : to master one's sensibility to avoid getting lost in it.

 

Just take the sensible middle path for balance.

 

On 5/24/2019 at 7:01 PM, CloudHands said:

Dao's manifestation is not a minimalist/economic system rather the contrary.

 

The Tao only follows itself. Who/what/how ~ do  human beings follow?

 

On 5/24/2019 at 7:01 PM, CloudHands said:

So if you have somewhere inside you a question like "why is there something rather that nothing ?" or "what's the purpose of life ?" daoism will not answer it but dao let it appear.

 

"why is there something rather that nothing ?" ~ something/nothing/everything/anything... belong to ONE?

"what's the purpose of life ?" ~ for living?

 

On 5/24/2019 at 7:01 PM, CloudHands said:

These questions can be extinct by a "shut up and feel", they can and maybe they should if they are to much weight to carry.

Still I think they have their part of beauty and I have interest in them.

 

Feeling over words?

 

On 5/24/2019 at 7:01 PM, CloudHands said:

Better have balanced doubts that a dubious balance !

 

 

[Limahong]

On 6/13/2019 at 1:18 PM, CloudHands said:

That's the thing...

 

That's the thing, so much power and possibilities in that creation,

myriad of lifeforms and treasures of ingenuity,

(Because of ONE?)

an effortless push emulate countless lives struggling

(Wu-wei?)

and the scene can stop in a fraction of seconds...

while we still don't know if time counts !

this stage will shut down with the sun's last song

(Life/death?)

without answering why the wheat grows

(Wheat is witless?)

maybe the try is to reach for the next breathable astral ballet

maybe we just consciences born to contemplate

Poetry in motion...

 

 

 

[Rocky Lionmouth]

Condoleances.

[CloudHands]

20 hours ago, Rocky Lionmouth said:

Condoleances.

 

I'm fine but thanks

[CloudHands]

23 hours ago, Limahong said:

 

Just take the sensible middle path for balance.

 

 

Plenty of good words Lima. Basically I find there is something selfish and eventually cowardice in the manner daoism can be interpreted. Something that leads to deny responsibility. Not get informed. Never to take a side (the middle path)...

 

But that's ok, I'll end up used to all that (I suppose my angles are still too sharp)  and your advices are valuable.

 

I think that I have already posted a topic alike. These questions shaking my comprehension/positioning seem to be come back periodic.  I suppose I'm going to stop with that now since it has be done twice.
 

A step back for a bigger picture. That's sometimes what I forget.

 

Thanks to everyone.

[Limahong]

1 hour ago, CloudHands said:

Basically I find there is something selfish and eventually cowardice in the manner daoism can be interpreted. Something that leads to deny responsibility. Not get informed.

 

Hi CloudHands,

 

I trust it is quite natural to be/do thus as part of self development. You have what it takes to move on forward on the Taoist Path. To me such a path is less traveled.

 

1 hour ago, CloudHands said:

Thanks to everyone.

 

Thanks to you too for starting this thread and fellow Bums that have posted ~ for the opportunities to enable me to air my thoughts.

 

A great weekend.

 

- Anand

[Rocky Lionmouth]

6 hours ago, CloudHands said:

 

I'm fine but thanks

 

Good to hear Clouds! Anytime, with wishes of being not needed for a good long while yet.

[Limahong]

22 hours ago, CloudHands said:

These questions shaking my comprehension/positioning seem to be come back periodic.

 

Hi CloudHands,

 

To move forward ~ just let those questions shake you periodically... be aware of the Dunning-Kruger effect...

 

" In 2011, David Dunning wrote about his observations that people with substantial, measurable deficits in their knowledge or expertise lack the ability to recognize those deficits and, therefore, despite potentially making error after error, tend to think they are performing competently when they are not: 'In short, those who are incompetent, for lack of a better term, should have little insight into their incompetence—an assertion that has come to be known as the Dunning–Kruger effect' " - Wikipedia

 

Life may be deemed a big joke ~ but is it a comedy where the Dunning-Kruger effect is most felt?

 

 

 

Is The Tao a comedy?

 

 

 

- Anand

 

Edited June 22, 2019 by Limahong
Correct errors.

[silent thunder]

while my body is part of something unimaginably vast

 

it is comprised entirely of the indescribably tiny

[Limahong]

49 minutes ago, silent thunder said:

while my body is part of something unimaginably vast

it is comprised entirely of the indescribably tiny

 

Hi Creighton,

 

Yes ~ very tiny.

50 % of you ~ your forefathers' sperm.

 

- Anand

 

 

[Limahong]

On 6/20/2019 at 3:02 AM, CloudHands said:

Plenty of feelings. Mostly my grand father died lately (1)

 

Hi CloudHands,

 

Cherish your Dad...

 

Grandfather => Father => Son.

 

- Anand

 

Edited June 23, 2019 by Limahong
Correct errors.

[Limahong]

On 6/20/2019 at 3:02 AM, CloudHands said:

Plenty of feelings. Mostly my grand father died lately. (2)

 

Hi CloudHands,

 

You are connected to your grandfather by your father ~ and there are apparently very strong feelings.

 

Have you ever thought of your Dad's feelings for his Dad ~ I believe they must be equally strong as yours for your grandfather.

 

Why? This tune  has always connected me thus... Grandpa => Dad => me... through a basic "father-son" tie...

 

 

It was featured on CCTV's Lunar New Year Eve Gala 2016 and tears flowed...

 

 

 

"Plenty of feelings"... you are blessed.

 

- Anand

 

[rideforever]

Story and identity are an attempt by nature to trigger your evolution.

Where you stop drifting in the sea like a bum or a baby, and you actually start to take responsibility for something.

You are given a small identity ... can you look after that ?

That's what existence is asking you ... here is a small part of me, what will do with it ?

Are you ready to stop being carried around, because it's time for you to participate.

And it's a big step.

Suddenly rather than sucking on the breast, you have to take ownership of yourself, learn about yourself, investigate life and come up with something.

Oh it's so confusing.

Most people they do a little investigation - read the internet - and then afterwards they just "agree with everyone else".

Ha.

That's as far as they have got.

It's too tiring, can't we go back to being in the ocean again and drifting like a bum.

Sure, no problem.

Somebody else will do your work for you.

 

 

[Limahong]

2 hours ago, rideforever said:

You are given a small identity ... can you look after that ?

That's what existence is asking you ... here is a small part of me, what will do with it ?

 

Hi rideforever,

 

Beautiful. 

Small ~ but THE only identity/part.

 

- Anand

 

P.S. This week is Navy Seal rescuer (Thailand Cave boys) Saman Kunan first anniversary.

 

 

Edited June 23, 2019 by Limahong
Enhance ...

[rideforever]

It is the THE only identity part that we individually are.

We are not "the whole".

In fact there is no such thing as "the whole" because "the whole" functions through its parts each of which is unique.
And a Buddha is immortal as its individual part.

 

Practically speaking, engaging in opening and surrendering to "the whole", must go hand in hand with becoming "this one".

This one and that one, together.

Like a mason working on both faces of a wall.

 

 

Edited June 23, 2019 by rideforever