safety of mantak chia's practices

[amansaari]

hi,

I am new to this group. I have just begun to practice Mantak Chia's system from his DVDs. I had the following questions.

 

1) How safe are the practices of the microcosmic orbit and healing love techniques like the upward draw ?

 

2) Should I open the functional (front) channel first and then try these techniques ?

 

3) Is it possible for me to accidentally awaken my kundalini by doing these practices ? How should I minimize the risk ?

 

4) What other safe guards need to be maintained ?

 

thanks a lot

-amansaari

[xenolith]

hi,

I am new to this group. I have just begun to practice Mantak Chia's system from his DVDs. I had the following questions.

 

1) How safe are the practices of the microcosmic orbit and healing love techniques like the upward draw ?

 

2) Should I open the functional (front) channel first and then try these techniques ?

 

3) Is it possible for me to accidentally awaken my kundalini by doing these practices ? How should I minimize the risk ?

 

4) What other safe guards need to be maintained ?

 

thanks a lot

-amansaari

Welcome amansaari. I've practiced internal alchemy in accordance with Mantak Chia's teachings for nearly 25 years (Zoiks! that's a long time!) and have experienced all sorts of positive manifestations as a result. In my experience it's not dangerous. There are lots of warnings out there about Chia's practices, but I've yet to hear/read exactly what the danger is. Let me know if you find out would 'ya?

 

Be mindful and you'll be fine.

 

Again, welcome.

[joeblast]

As I understand, most of the danger is in trying to rush through the practices - one big issue with being presented with a lot of information! It is all too easy to not give proper weight to foundational practices and jump into more advanced practices without proper form. You want to build your house on concrete as opposed to quicksand

[Chanwu]

It's rumours created by the cult "traditional tao" so don't worry.

[Trunk]

1) How safe are the practices of the microcosmic orbit and healing love techniques like the upward draw ?

Dangers of semen retention (link).

 

2) Should I open the functional (front) channel first and then try these techniques ?

Yes (link).

 

3) Is it possible for me to accidentally awaken my kundalini by doing these practices ? How should I minimize the risk ?

Tricky question.

Yes, it's possible. Inherent on a spiritual path, especially one of energy cultivation, is the possibility that K will awaken. In (at least some of) the eastern cultures, the spiritual path is just known to have (big) risks.

 

The Taoist 'technology' works on opening the channels, developing lower center and earth connection. If K opens after you've developed some of this, it'll be safer (though not 'safe'). If K doesn't open, maybe you'll still benefit.

 

4) What other safe guards need to be maintained ?

Too many to mention.

Best of luck to us all.

[Starjumper]

It's very dangerous if done by the wrong person or done in the wrong way, and a beginner won't know what a wrong way is. I saw one of the walking wounded once. This person had been a student of on of Chias teachers, had the benefit of an actual teacher and not just a book. She was permanently damaged and also was unable to meditate due to violent reactions that would arise right away.

Edited February 20, 2008 by Starjumper7

[Pietro]

Yes, I think that the best answer to this question is that there is no consensus on the subject. I am starting to reach the conclusion that Chia did indeed took those practices from some practices that were going around in Taiwan in the 50s and 60s. And those practices were designed for old people, to get back their vitality. Which also makes a lot of sense in terms of history of Taoism, as we shall soon see in the book club, above. If this is true they were never thought to be done by young people with plenty of vitality, and trying to go for the complete celibacy. Not to say that it is not possible, just that those were not the tools for the job.

 

I am starting to get this from 3 different sources. Totally unrelated. One is David, another is Alan, and the third is private.

 

As such you have sometimes people on which they work very well, occasionally you get some who have trouble, and sometimes the trouble are quite big. Yes, you can fairly always track down the trouble to some foundations that has been not laid properly. But I know many people in this forum, which definitly have worked for years on this foundations, and still got problems. And this is why you will find people in this forum, who have a bit more experience in the forum to raise warning. Trunk is the quintessence of this. He was here all this time, and wrote his site synthesizing the knowledge of our community over the years.

 

Essentially the fact that they never gave problems to a person does not imply that they are safe for everybody to practice.

 

I hope this have answered your question sufficiently. It is a bit a russian rulette. But the good news is that if you lay they foundations properly this will generally slow down the bullet, so you probably can at least stop the retention if things are not going the way they should.

 

 

And I agree that the secret is all in the testicular breathing, cold unaroused energy, and similar.

 

Good luck,

Pietro

Edited February 20, 2008 by Pietro

[宁]

it's not logical to built a case on a 0,01 percentage

but if you mean to, you can find reason even in that

 

from my experience, my practice group's experience, and my teacher's experience:

- yes, they are the safest methods

- no, they are not absolutely safe, it depends on the medical and even psychollogical history of the person - which i suspect was a problem for the case mentioned above, also there are many other things we mentioned in other threads

- the books and DVD are informative material only, and most of them specify that from the beginning; they are offered for people to make an oppinion.

 

Mantak Chia's oppinion on the DVD's, CD's, books, tapes and booklets was summarized at one of the workshops: "You can have all of them, but without receiving the transmission, not much will happen".

 

The fact is, he has built his system to be FIRSTLY the safest possible, this was and is the first goal.

 

Putting the worst case in some sort of funny way (it reffers to no one, just to make an idea):

- is it safe for an idiot to ride a good bike?

- it depends on the idiot.

If the idiot runs straight in the middle of the street, or runs into a tree, or whatnot... MAYBE it is not the fault of the bike.

 

good luck

 

L1

 

PS: Bottom line is, dont rely ONLY on informative DVD's and Books, if you want to practice

[Pietro]

it's not logical to built a case on a 0,01 percentage

but if you mean to, you can find reason even in that

 

from my experience, my practice group's experience, and my teacher's experience:

- yes, they are the safest methods

- no, they are not absolutely safe, it depends on the medical and even psychollogical history of the person - which i suspect was a problem for the case mentioned above, also there are many other things we mentioned in other threads

- the books and DVD are informative material only, and most of them specify that from the beginning; they are offered for people to make an oppinion.

 

Mantak Chia's oppinion on the DVD's, CD's, books, tapes and booklets was summarized at one of the workshops: "You can have all of them, but without receiving the transmission, not much will happen".

 

The fact is, he has built his system to be FIRSTLY the safest possible, this was and is the first goal.

 

It does depends on what you are doing.

 

But clearly 99.9% of Mantak Chia male studentsm who have practiced with him, got the transmission, and practiced for a few years are still NOT able to practice 100 days of sexual retention.

Now 100 days of sexual retention in Taoism is considered the first basic step.

The little achievement. And I stress the word little.

 

And if they try most of them would fail. Many other would get hurt,... and a tiny minority would succeed.

 

Mantak Chia practices were not designed to be safe. Mantak philosophy was always to give everything he had. This is a very generous position, but it is equivalent to use your students as testing cases for any new practice that comes to your mind. Speak with William Wei, and ask him how each time Mantak Chia is testing new practices.

 

The practices in the book are a bit safer, as they are less random. But even sticking with them, and doing them after you got the transmission, and even finding out which is the best instructor on that particular practice, and getting teaching from him (a practice that I would in general suggest, as different teachers vary greatly on their level of expertise on the various practices), on that subject, still, many people would not be able to reach the little achievement.

 

You call this a safe working daoist system. Hmm.

 

Pietro

 

(And yes, doing them without the transmission is even worse)

[三江源]

It's very dangerous if done by the wrong person or done in the wrong way, and a beginner won't know what a wrong way is. I saw one of the walking wounded once. This person had been a student of on of Chias teachers, had the benefit of an actual teacher and not just a book. She was permanently damaged and also was unable to meditate due to violent reactions that would arise right away.

 

 

Could you share with us the details of this please? I ask particularly because you have mentioned that the damaged person is a woman.

 

And we have some information about problems that arise, invariably - as far as I am aware - in men.

 

It seems to me that a lot of the problems that arise are for men, in relation to the sexual practises, but not for women.

[amansaari]

It does depends on what you are doing.

 

But clearly 99.9% of Mantak Chia male studentsm who have practiced with him, got the transmission, and practiced for a few years are still NOT able to practice 100 days of sexual retention.

Now 100 days of sexual retention in Taoism is considered the first basic step.

The little achievement. And I stress the word little.

 

And if they try most of them would fail. Many other would get hurt,... and a tiny minority would succeed.

 

Mantak Chia practices were not designed to be safe. Mantak philosophy was always to give everything he had. This is a very generous position, but it is equivalent to use your students as testing cases for any new practice that comes to your mind. Speak with William Wei, and ask him how each time Mantak Chia is testing new practices.

 

The practices in the book are a bit safer, as they are less random. But even sticking with them, and doing them after you got the transmission, and even finding out which is the best instructor on that particular practice, and getting teaching from him (a practice that I would in general suggest, as different teachers vary greatly on their level of expertise on the various practices), on that subject, still, many people would not be able to reach the little achievement.

 

You call this a safe working daoist system. Hmm.

 

Pietro

 

(And yes, doing them without the transmission is even worse)

Ok, I understand that a lot of these problems are with the sexual retention exercises. What about the basic inner smile, healing sounds, and microcosmic orbit exercises. Are these safe ? I am not talking about the advanced practices yet.

[Pietro]

Ok, I understand that a lot of these problems are with the sexual retention exercises. What about the basic inner smile, healing sounds, and microcosmic orbit exercises. Are these safe ? I am not talking about the advanced practices yet.

Yeah, safe and sound.

 

The MC can sometimes give some slight problems if done with no proper rooting, or without opening the fron channel enough.

 

For those people, Michael Winn developped a special sequence of small micro micro cosmic that does not go all the way to the head.

 

The other thing that sometimes does give some problem is the teaching to keep the anus contracted. Some people teach that from the beginning. If this is done in daily life can sometimes lead to problems. (fixed thoughts, inability to let go of things). But how to relate with ones' asshole is one of the way with which you can classify Daoist schools. It's not just Mantak, for what I know.

 

Pietro

Edited February 20, 2008 by Pietro

[宁]

Pietro, i know you have your doubts, many of them do.

Please, just keep them.

I by no means want to stand as a defender of Mantak Chia.

What i stated is my personal experience and knowledge of the system, and that's it, take what you want from it, and discard what you feel it's inapropriate.

There is a lot more you should know. I'm afraid it's already a little too late, i kinda let the cat out of the bag, but if i go on further, i will really have to keep up with all of you and offer many many explanations.

I'm not interested, really, i plan to do other nice stuff in my spare time.

It is not the way to go for everyone, and if there are people that are afraid of safety issues, they can just decide to pull back and try something else.

 

Otherwise, I maintain what I said: the most popular taoist system is also one of the least understood.

 

good luck

 

 

L1

[Pietro]

Hello Little 1.

 

Pietro, i know you have your doubts, many of them do.

Please, just keep them.

 

You are asking me not to share the "doubts" that I have.

 

No I will not. Sorry.

 

This would be equivalent to shut up on trust that you do know the solution, even though you have no time to tell it. I wouldn't do it if I knew who you are. I surely would not do it for an anonymous person on the internet. Plus, what I said are not just doubts, are conclusions we came after years of research. You can look in the history of this forum, and even more in the history of the defunct HTUsa forum.

 

If someone comes to this forum asking if Mantak practices are safe, I will have to answer, out of my experience. Not doing it would make me responsible by omission.

 

I by no means want to stand as a defender of Mantak Chia.

What i stated is my personal experience and knowledge of the system, and that's it, take what you want from it, and discard what you feel it's inapropriate.

There is a lot more you should know. I'm afraid it's already a little too late, i kinda let the cat out of the bag, but if i go on further, i will really have to keep up with all of you and offer many many explanations.

I'm not interested, really, i plan to do other nice stuff in my spare time.

It is not the way to go for everyone, and if there are people that are afraid of safety issues, they can just decide to pull back and try something else.

 

Otherwise, I maintain what I said: the most popular taoist system is also one of the least understood.

 

But a "safe & working daoist system" that is

"not safe & working as a daoist system" unless you understand it.

And no one (actually one, you) is able to understand it,

is still a

"not safe and working daoist system".

 

SO, Little 1, if you do know how to make that system work;

then I do invite you to take the time and share it.

 

Also if you could prove that the origin of the sexual techniques were for practices that were designed for the young audience that Mantak is getting, I also would like to know it.

 

until then...

Pietro

[Chanwu]

I firmly believe in this: it's not dangerous if you don't fear it. When you get strong energy flow and get scared, the fear can create blockages.

 

Spirituality is a natural process, and the more garbage you have the more garbage will have to be thrown out of your body.

 

I have never been harmed by any spiritual activity in my life, when experiences come I give into them fully. And I am still safe and sound.

 

Don't let other people's stories scare you, fear leads to blockages. Just go with it and let it all happen.

[Fire Dragon]

Hello

 

I'm a universal tao student since 1999.

 

Some safety points

 

1 Have a certifikated teacher and go the courses

 

2 Learn inner smile, six healing sounds, and microcosmic meditation. Do this exercises regularly for a while.

 

3 Do also some moving qigong or the iron shirt. For learning to connect to the earth

 

4 Always circulate into the navel after ewery time you practise.

 

5 Take the courses with the instructors again before moving into the sexual practise.

 

6 Try to read ewerything about safety in Mantak Chias books.

 

 

After one year of this practises on a regularly basis, several occasions ewery weak, you can learn some sexual practises. Michael Winn the leading instructor of universal tao in USA have another aproache. He says don't start any sexual practises before knowing the fusion of the five elements one. The fusion of the five elements is dealing with and ballancing your emotions. This is important to do when you are doing sexual practises especially with aroused sexual energy. The reason is that sexual enegy or Jing are expaning ewery feeling you have. So if your feelings are unballanced when you are doing the sexual practises you might make the unballances much stronger and not healthy for you and your friends.

 

 

If starting with the sexual practises.

 

Start with the testicle breathing and pehaps the scrotal compression. And with the testicle massage before learning the big draw.

 

Learning the big draw with mastrubation and living alone for a year before doing it with a girl, if possible.

Then there is needed about four years of practise within a stable relationship before comprehending the practises. While doing this do the rooting the working with emotions sounds and smile or perhaps also fusion and ordinary Microcosmic meditaion and physical exercises (western aerobics or similar or hatha yoga tao-yin, tai chi or ssomething similar) all the time regularly while working with the sexual energy.

 

Be aware of not going to extremes.

 

The main dangers.

 

1 Being afraid for you sexuality and supress it

2 owerindulgence in sexual activity. Don't let the enhanced sexual feelings ruling your life.

3 Owerly interested in reaching goals like multiple orgasmes

4 watching porn exesively

5 Don't keep the blood, an erection, for to long time. You need new blood with oxygene after awhile. Perhaps after 15 minutes it good to let the erection down. Perhaps by the big draw.

 

Keep the midle way in this and not going to extremes.

 

Don't be obsessed with not having ejaculations. Better to learn to draw up the energy for conservation and to find a frequency of ejaculations that suits you. There are rules according to age and healt that might suite you. Just go into 100 days practise of retention if you have good reasons.

 

Keep away from the milion dollar point, lean the big draw instead. If using the milion dolllar do it just a few times to see how it works but don't use it as a regular practises. The big draw do it better and more safely so there is no reasons, mostly not as I see it, to use the million dollar point.

 

To start learning big draw with a woman its easier to not have an ejaculation with an older woman, beacase she isn't as tight in her pussy and beacase she perhaps is not so sexy as a young girl.

 

 

Keep your feelings balanced do all the exercises in the system if you want to gain from sexual practises.

 

Some of the benefits:

 

Your sexual aproval will increase manyfolds. You will feel an increased ability to stimulate a woman and that feels greate. Don't abuse woman. You will learn about your sexuality in a way you didn't think was possible. You will increase your own energy creativity and personal development in a way you didn't think was possible. You will have the possibility to be the fantastic person you where ment to be.

 

It feels grate to have the increased sexual energy!

 

Take the dangers seriously and just go into this if you are seriously interested in inner practises. The one year with regular practises, daily if possible, give you a hint of your atitude.

 

Perhaps you also will feel some wery strong multiple orgasmes or full body orgasmes. A greate bonus!

 

Be aware of any bad efects and don't continue practise sexual practises if you feel pain or wery strong unbalanced feelings. Or any sort of discomfort that last.

 

 

That was some things from my experiences and from what I have read about dangers in sexual practises.

 

 

I have been living as a celibate nearly the whole time since the year 2001 and have no problems with the sexual practises except one. Have done the complete 100 days two times and have tried it siriously four times. I have some problems with porn from time to time. Are on my way to start meeting girls again.

 

F D

[sheng zhen]

Don't let other people's stories scare you, fear leads to blockages. Just go with it and let it all happen.

Great advice!

 

I dont know Mantak Chias stuff, but I have a general comment.

I believe that when a practice has thousands of practicioners and is not a secret practice, there will always be someone who will be damaged, hurt, negative and angry with the method, its teachers and espescially the orginator. Because the teacher dosent have the time and ability to personally guide and oversee each and everyones development, there will allways be someone who do it wrong and experience sideeffects, or someone who pushes their own limits to the breakingpoint. Just like with drugs, hahaha...actually, many people seek these things just like other people seek drugs. That alone will create damages and sideeffects.

 

This dosent really say anything about safety of the method, only the mechanisms of human consciousness. It will happen to any method that has thousands of practicioners.

[宁]

Great advice!

 

I dont know Mantak Chias stuff, but I have a general comment.

I believe that when a practice has thousands of practicioners and is not a secret practice, there will always be someone who will be damaged, hurt, negative and angry with the method, its teachers and espescially the orginator. Because the teacher dosent have the time and ability to personally guide and oversee each and everyones development, there will allways be someone who do it wrong and experience sideeffects, or someone who pushes their own limits to the breakingpoint. Just like with drugs, hahaha...actually, many people seek these things just like other people seek drugs. That alone will create damages and sideeffects.

 

This dosent really say anything about safety of the method, only the mechanisms of human consciousness. It will happen to any method that has thousands of practicioners.

 

 

Exactly, this is the most objective and impartial conclusion one could make.

 

 

 

 

Hello, Pietro. I have nothing to prove, ok?

I have let out a couple of thoughts about my research on it, and that's it.

I'm glad that a couple of people found them useful, job done, end of story.

Whatever unsettling questions and problems you have, you could ask Chia directly, he has email too.

 

And about the doubts, you misunderstood me. What i wrote is "to keep your doubts", not to keep them to yourself. Express them, whenever, wherever.

Because I dont mean to convince anyone.

 

Have fun,

 

L1

 

 

EDIT: Some of my other thoughts on the Sexual Kungfu Practice are on the "Retrograde Ejaculation" thread, i feel i shouldnt repeat them over here. Thank you.

Edited February 20, 2008 by Little1

[Chanwu]

Also, people do become sick, and people do get psychological illnesses all the time... even without practising Mantak Chia's methods! (Newsflash ;-))

 

Some people have problems that may come up when they meditate. Some people aren't ready for a swift change in world view and such and become scared etc.

[Wun Yuen Gong]

Could be worse you could die trying to combine Yin Yang Gong according to Mo Pai tradition!

 

I know someone that has bad effects from Kunlun Bliss!

 

I know someone that has had bad effects from running, swimming, walking, hard kung fu, boxing - i say just go slowly and pay attention to thoughts and body, dont force anything or try too hard with intention just slight intention.

 

I do know a few people that has had great results from Mantaks information especially healing sounds, inner smile. These 2 people unrelated has said that just those 2 exercises are all that one needs to be happy and healthy oh and of course Iron Shirt.

 

WYG

[Starjumper]

it's not logical to built a case on a 0,01 percentage

but if you mean to, you can find reason even in that

 

from my experience, my practice group's experience, and my teacher's experience:

- yes, they are the safest methods

- no, they are not absolutely safe, it depends on the medical and even psychollogical history of the person - which i suspect was a problem for the case mentioned above, also there are many other things we mentioned in other threads

- the books and DVD are informative material only, and most of them specify that from the beginning; they are offered for people to make an oppinion.

 

Mantak Chia's oppinion on the DVD's, CD's, books, tapes and booklets was summarized at one of the workshops: "You can have all of them, but without receiving the transmission, not much will happen".

 

The fact is, he has built his system to be FIRSTLY the safest possible, this was and is the first goal.

 

Putting the worst case in some sort of funny way (it reffers to no one, just to make an idea):

- is it safe for an idiot to ride a good bike?

- it depends on the idiot.

If the idiot runs straight in the middle of the street, or runs into a tree, or whatnot... MAYBE it is not the fault of the bike.

 

 

Yes, and speaking of idiots ...

 

These exercises, like doing the MCO, inner smile, bone breathing, etc etc etc, were developed back in a time when people got much more exercise and were much healthier. Their world and their bodies were not so toxic, but more importantly, they all got more exercise than most athletes do these days, they were slender and stronger and much healthier than a person who thinks they are healthy these days actually is. Even more importantly is that they combined these visualizations with extensive martial arts and moving chi kung training, which took priority, it's safe for people like that.

 

Instead, these day so many people are sedentary and overweight, they need some good exercise, like tai chi or a good moving chi kung form nd do plenty of it. They shouldn't do even more sitting around. What most people these days think of as being healthy is actually "not too sick" and even most people who think they are healthy are absolutely disgusting compared to what healthy was 200 years ago in China.

 

These big fat disgusting soft weak stupid sick lazy slobs with their big toxin loaded rolls of fat (did I say disgusting yet?) and pathetic weak muscles topped off with a weak materialistic mind, like me, are everywhere. So, Little 1, you are saying that these people should do even more sitting around and that it is safe and good for their health? These people are fools, led around by the nose by a money grubbing egomaniac, like me.

 

That's the height of ignorance, and unethical, dangerous. The only reason those practices aren't more dangerous is because they are so wimpy.

 

Edit: I just put 'like me' in there to defuse little ego explosions.

Edited February 21, 2008 by Starjumper7

[Cameron]

Starjumper your actually pretty funny.

 

I agree with you also about the sedentary. I am trying to gradually build up a lifestlye centered around being much more physically active and fit myself.

[xenolith]

Agree with Little 1. Have yet not.

 

10 years to pass the ming-men = foundation well laid = abundant positive manifestations = ...

 

Be humble and don't stumble. - Justin Wilson

[clearclouds]

Yes, and speaking of idiots ...

 

These exercises, like doing the MCO, inner smile, bone breathing, etc etc etc, were developed back in a time when people got much more exercise and were much healthier. Their world and their bodies were not so toxic, but more importantly, they all got more exercise than most athletes do these days, they were slender and stronger and much healthier than a person who thinks they are healthy these days actually is. Even more importantly is that they combined these visualizations with extensive martial arts and moving chi kung training, which took priority, it's safe for people like that.

 

Instead, these day so many people are sedentary and overweight, they need some good exercise, like tai chi or a good moving chi kung form nd do plenty of it. They shouldn't do even more sitting around. What most people these days think of as being healthy is actually "not too sick" and even most people who think they are healthy are absolutely disgusting compared to what healthy was 200 years ago in China.

 

These big fat disgusting soft weak stupid sick lazy slobs with their big toxin loaded rolls of fat (did I say disgusting yet?) and pathetic weak muscles topped off with a weak materialistic mind, like me, are everywhere. So, Little 1, you are saying that these people should do even more sitting around and that it is safe and good for their health? These people are fools, led around by the nose by a money grubbing egomaniac, like me.

 

That's the height of ignorance, and unethical, dangerous. The only reason those practices aren't more dangerous is because they are so wimpy.

 

very well put, we really need to think relative to history like this sometimes.

[宁]

No, SJ, what i said is sometimes, some people read only what they want, mix it up in their heads, and think this is the truth. Besides the point, totally. So, yes, i agree with Cam, it IS funny.

 

Sedentary? If you knew what a real HT / UTS training session consists of, you would know better than that. One more thing. There are other kinds of people around the world, besides chubby americans, i wonder if this makes sense to you.

 

Like i said before, you keep your doubts too, i dont mean to take them away from you. If i posted some info, it was for the ones that already know these things work. Not to convince anyone else.

 

Besides, this system is one of the safest, and within reach, for many of people around the world. All you need to do is pray and win "brownie points", so that you can meet a GOOD teacher so you can progress even safer, and get even better results, in every field of your life. I know it's possible, it is part of my experience with it also.

 

The ones that are still afraid of safety issues, they could easily pull back and try something else... Is it so difficult to understand? My teacher tells me from time to time: If you have trust in what you are doing, and really want to progress, just keep up and do your practice everyday. If not, and you have too many doubts about this or that, you would be better off going out there and living you life as you please... have fun with your life, life is usually too short, so dont waste your time here if you dont belive in what you are doing

 

Have fun,

 

L1