Quickly detecting a fool is invaluable

[Owledge]

Fools are not really unpredictable to me. Probably because the skill of prediction comes with prolonged study. (I tend to lapse in judgment when I reduce my cynicism to replace it with a more cheerful mindset.)

 

And I just realized why I still have a tendency to engage with fools at all. I want to keep the hope alive that I may encounter people who positively surprise me, for they would automatically become a beacon of hope. If I blanket-labeled someone as hopeless, I could become complacent. It probably is a kind of practice of not becoming blind to real opportunities that might not look like ones at first.

 

But honestly, so far things look more like the opposite. Just recently I happened to encounter two people while on a bike trip. RARELY, it totally clicked. We were in an understanding in the spiritual area, we agreed to be open-minded and tolerant and could talk without feeling offended at every little thing, basically relatively mature. They kept expressing admiration for me and happiness to have met me. I gave them my card, they said to contact me later that day. ... Now it is weeks and I haven't heard anything from them. Makes me wonder whether I should have been more  cynical and asked for mutual contact means,  but I also didn't want to be pushy, since that could lead to problems, too. (Sometimes there just seems to be no winning.)

Talk about the epitome of a demotivational life making cynical, where even a 99% chance signals near-guaranteed failure, and if something offers itself as 100%, it's probably a lie.

 

This makes me wonder whether people further advanced in insight, maturity or whatever you want to call it, will provide more or easier tiny points of taking issue with that could put others off.

Does being the best you can be result in greater chance of failure? It is said by people focusing on success in this sick society that if you conceil your strength and portray yourself as very flawed and clumsy, you will gain more sympathy from people you want to exploit; will be less likely to scare them, make them feel inferior. - I think this is what you get when a very intelligent person chooses to close their heart to anyone but themselves. And with that they will probably have an easier time finding likeminded people, but only because they are closed-hearted now, like so damn many other people. They may fool themselves then into thinking they found others just like they WERE before they decided to close their heart. That then makes them open their heart to that kind of mindset and that is how you get a sociopathic career-bullshitter giving 'inspiring' TED Talks.

Edited May 14, 2019 by Owledge

[Owledge]

@dwai Apparently Nasrudin didn't consider the appointment important enough to note it down. If he is that forgetful. So while he could call the philosopher an asshole for not considering he could also have had an accident or such, Nasrudin himself also qualifies for that label for rejecting responsibility for his carelessness and turning it into an intellectual jerkoff (the latter which confirms the former).

Instead he could have asked about the philosopher's day and life that caused him to get that upset about it. Because it can also imply that the philosopher valued the appointment so important for his life that that is why the missed opportunity infuriated him. It might also convey that the philosopher himself has higher standards of reliability, which is commendable.

Nasrudin maybe should value the importance of such appointments higher if he is that prone to passive-aggressiveness. (Quite the overt type even.)

Edited May 14, 2019 by Owledge

[dwai]

51 minutes ago, Owledge said:

@dwai Apparently Nasrudin didn't consider the appointment important enough to note it down. If he is that forgetful. So while he could call the philosopher an asshole for not considering he could also have had an accident or such, Nasrudin himself also qualifies for that label for rejecting responsibility for his carelessness and turning it into an intellectual jerkoff (the latter which confirms the former).

Instead he could have asked about the philosopher's day and life that caused him to get that upset about it. Because it can also imply that the philosopher valued the appointment so important for his life that that is why the missed opportunity infuriated him. It might also convey that the philosopher himself has higher standards of reliability, which is commendable.

Nasrudin maybe should value the importance of such appointments higher if he is that prone to passive-aggressiveness. (Quite the overt type even.)

 sometimes a funny story is just a funny story 

[Fa Xin]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Heyoka

 

This is where the term "sacred clown" comes from.  I took this part from wiki because I found it interesting.

 

Quote

Principally, the heyókȟa functions both as a mirror and a teacher, using extreme behaviors to mirror others, and forcing them to examine their own doubts, fears, hatreds, and weaknesses. Heyókȟa have the power to heal emotional pain; such power comes from the experience of shame—they sing of shameful events in their lives, beg for food, and live as clowns. They provoke laughter in distressing situations of despair, and provoke fear and chaos when people feel complacent and overly secure, to keep them from taking themselves too seriously or believing they are more powerful than they are.^[3] 

 

Really fascinating role to play (whether aware of it, in the case of the heyokha, or maybe not in others...)

Edited May 15, 2019 by Fa Xin

[Fa Xin]

1 hour ago, Owledge said:

But honestly, so far things look more like the opposite. Just recently I happened to encounter two people while on a bike trip. RARELY, it totally clicked. We were in an understanding in the spiritual area, we agreed to be open-minded and tolerant and could talk without feeling offended at every little thing, basically relatively mature. They kept expressing admiration for me and happiness to have met me. I gave them my card, they said to contact me later that day. ... Now it is weeks and I haven't heard anything from them. Makes me wonder whether I should have been more  cynical and asked for mutual contact means,  but I also didn't want to be pushy, since that could lead to problems, too. (Sometimes there just seems to be no winning.)

Talk about the epitome of a demotivational life making cynical, where even a 99% chance signals near-guaranteed failure, and if something offers itself as 100%, it's probably a lie.

 

 

That's why spirituality is the LAST thing I talk about, especially when just meeting someone.  It's a sure-fire way to scare people off... unless that's what you want to do. Then have at it.

Edited May 15, 2019 by Fa Xin

[dwai]

1 minute ago, Fa Xin said:

 

That's why spirituality is the LAST thing I talk about, especially when just meeting someone.  It's a sure-fire way to scare people off... unless that's what you want to do. Then have at it.

I sometimes do it when I want to be left alone 😂

[Fa Xin]

3 minutes ago, dwai said:

I sometimes do it when I want to be left alone 😂

 

"Want to meditate with me???" *eyes wide and staring*

[Owledge]

25 minutes ago, dwai said:

 sometimes a funny story is just a funny story 

People tend to say such things once someone questions it. Before that it is silently implied to have some witty spiritual insight.

Maybe you are not the philosopher type. 

[dwai]

4 minutes ago, Owledge said:

People tend to say such things once someone questions it. Before that it is silently implied to have some witty spiritual insight.

Maybe you are not the philosopher type. 

I’ve got a PhD in Dumassery  

[Owledge]

7 minutes ago, Fa Xin said:

 

That's why spirituality is the LAST thing I talk about, especially when just meeting someone.  It's a sure-fire way to scare people off... unless that's what you want to do. Then have at it.

As I said, they were quite versed. They even kept mentioning various spiritual teachers to me.

 

I mean, I have certain cynical suspicions what could have happened, but that is very vague, and if true, then let humankind be damned because people are way too messed up. You could say I value opportunities religiously, while encountering many fake ones, and I also occasionally make experiences just how easily people can squander great true opportunities, which gives an impression of humankind being a bunch of confused, scared-shitless inept toddlers. It is hard to bridge such a gap when the intention is one-sided.

[Owledge]

2 minutes ago, dwai said:

I’ve got a PhD in Dumassery  

Can you get a PhD in that? I'm pretty sure it's a BS.

[Fa Xin]

14 minutes ago, Owledge said:

It is hard to bridge such a gap when the intention is one-sided.

 

I totally understand... you try to help, and some people just don't want it or care. It can be frustrating.

 

I do feel like the desire to help others is one that should be nurtured, but the *expectation* that the other person will accept help must be let go, less you lose the desire & care for others, and replace it with cynicism. 

 

It's ultimately what the spiritual practice is all about, of course. Learning to accept people who push all of your buttons, all at once.  It's not letting them walk all over you, but rather it's not letting them take up space in your mind, rent free.

 

The TTC 7 is good food for thought:

 

It has no desires for itself; 
thus it is present for all beings. The Master stays behind; 
that is why she is ahead. 
She is detached from all things; 
that is why she is one with them. 
Because she has let go of herself, 
she is perfectly fulfilled. 

 

 

Edited May 15, 2019 by Fa Xin

[Owledge]

16 minutes ago, Fa Xin said:

 

I totally understand... you try to help, and some people just don't want it or care. It can be frustrating.

 

I do feel like the desire to help others is one that should be nurtured, but the *expectation* that the other person will accept help must be let go, less you lose the desire & care for others, and replace it with cynicism. 

 

It's ultimately what the spiritual practice is all about, of course. Learning to accept people who push all of your buttons, all at once.  It's not letting them walk all over you, but rather it's not letting them take up space in your mind, rent free.

 

The TTC 7 is good food for thought:

 

It has no desires for itself; 
thus it is present for all beings. The Master stays behind; 
that is why she is ahead. 
She is detached from all things; 
that is why she is one with them. 
Because she has let go of herself, 
she is perfectly fulfilled. 

 

 

What hurts through is not the event itself, but how unexpected it is based on its whole apperarance. It disconnects from a basis of trust. It alienates.

Some people like to preach how one has to be "self-reliant", but they conveniently neglect just how much they rely on many others. Especially those they exploit like sheep for their own gain.

Unless someone is a dropout living in a cabin in the woods growing their own food and plants for clothing and tools, they shouldn't talk about self-reliance. It is ignorant and impairs empathy by realizing the interconnectedness of things. This is also a common trap in 'spiritual' circles that can affect even or maybe especially people who ascended in the ranks of teachers, the self-empowerment theme, which often stems from fear, due to its mindset of separation. One always has to look at what one caused and sacrificed on the path of that self-empowerment. And do they ever ponder the presence of "self" in those words?

[Fa Xin]

15 minutes ago, Owledge said:

What hurts through is not the event itself, but how unexpected it is based on its whole apperarance. It disconnects from a basis of trust. It alienates.

Some people like to preach how one has to be "self-reliant", but they conveniently neglect just how much they rely on many others. Especially those they exploit like sheep for their own gain.

Unless someone is a dropout living in a cabin in the woods growing their own food and plants for clothing and tools, they shouldn't talk about self-reliance. It is ignorant and impairs empathy by realizing the interconnectedness of things. This is also a common trap in 'spiritual' circles that can affect even or maybe especially people who ascended in the ranks of teachers, the self-empowerment theme, which often stems from fear, due to its mindset of separation. One always has to look at what one caused and sacrificed on the path of that self-empowerment. And do they ever ponder the presence of "self" in those words?

 

Agreed... The "Self-empowerment" outlook is not one I vibe with.  Kind of goes in the opposite direction of where I am pulled

 

Edited May 15, 2019 by Fa Xin

[Aetherous]

2 hours ago, dwai said:

I’ve got a PhD in Dumassery  

 

That's very impressive to me.

 

[Pilgrim]

I feel very sorry for anyone taking this acquired  mind too seriously.

 

Oh How I weep!

Edited May 15, 2019 by Pilgrim

[Fa Xin]

9 hours ago, Earl Grey said:

 

This applies heavily to the discussion of many topics in this entire forum.

 

Yes, we all know how you dislike the forum. You mention it a lot. 

[welkin]

Self empowerment is not about peopel doing and taking credit for things on their own. Or that everything that that happens is a result of their own efforts. In fact, self empowerment has nothing to do with relationship to others or lack of for that matter. In fact, i'm not sure why there's a label that says self empowerment is this or that it's ego. If anything the word ego groups a bunch of ideas and ways of being into one thing. so we hear the word "ego", and we run away from it. Mostly due to indoctrination and society.

 

I often see the opposite too. "oh i did everything i did because of those who paved the way". Almost in a way indoctrinated to never give ones self credit for anything they do. Do people really believe those people or anyone for that matter don't believe in self empowerment? Is that idea even possible to not exist? Yes, one can act as if they don't self empower themselves. Like i said can only "ACT" that. 

 

Do you really believe that if you reached enlightenment, you're going to say i did it because my family and friends all paved the way or gave me insight? Sure they gave you a thought. Ultimately you had to make the judgment call, you had to look within and determine what is true to you or not.

 

Seems like we're always trying to find reasons why we shouldn't act like someone else. Maybe there are lessons in trying out everything...

 

this is the range of what most people do in life:

                balance

-----------------l--l--l--------------------

 

This is what few people do:
---l------------------l--------------------l---

[Fa Xin]

2 hours ago, welkin said:

Self empowerment is not about peopel doing and taking credit for things on their own. Or that everything that that happens is a result of their own efforts. In fact, self empowerment has nothing to do with relationship to others or lack of for that matter. In fact, i'm not sure why there's a label that says self empowerment is this or that it's ego. If anything the word ego groups a bunch of ideas and ways of being into one thing. so we hear the word "ego", and we run away from it. Mostly due to indoctrination and society.

 

I often see the opposite too. "oh i did everything i did because of those who paved the way". Almost in a way indoctrinated to never give ones self credit for anything they do. Do people really believe those people or anyone for that matter don't believe in self empowerment? Is that idea even possible to not exist? Yes, one can act as if they don't self empower themselves. Like i said can only "ACT" that. 

 

Do you really believe that if you reached enlightenment, you're going to say i did it because my family and friends all paved the way or gave me insight? Sure they gave you a thought. Ultimately you had to make the judgment call, you had to look within and determine what is true to you or not.

 

Seems like we're always trying to find reasons why we shouldn't act like someone else. Maybe there are lessons in trying out everything...

 

this is the range of what most people do in life:

                balance

-----------------l--l--l--------------------

 

This is what few people do:
---l------------------l--------------------l---

 

Yes good point. Everyone is doing their own thing! It makes the world go round. 

 

For me, the conversation was more about what has worked in my life. I did years of self-empowerment. It’s good, depending on your goals. I’ve found the path of “no self” works even better for me. Ymmv 

Edited May 16, 2019 by Fa Xin

[welkin]

1 hour ago, Fa Xin said:

 

Yes good point. Everyone is doing their own thing! It makes the world go round. 

 

For me, the conversation was more about what has worked in my life. I did years of self-empowerment. It’s good, depending on your goals. I’ve found the path of “no self” works even better for me. Ymmv 

 

Everyone should be doing their own thing, but i dont think doing your own thing necessarily means fitting into any stereotype or archetype. Which seems to be the case.

 

Also, was not necessarily responding to you or anyone, only the idea. I feel like there's fear to do the opposite of what our mind or mind "intuition" tells us, which is why we should' do the opposite.

 

To the point of no self though. I don't think self empowerment has anything to do with self or no self either. It's simply a tool. To not use a tool for the purpose of no self, counter actively becomes a self.

 

Though, i will say there is precaution that should be taken with living with these 'tools'. I have been a victim of them countless times. But which is why i believe in extending what balance means, and not staying only in the zone of balance.

Edited May 16, 2019 by welkin

[Earl Grey]

15 hours ago, Fa Xin said:

 

Yes, we all know how you dislike the forum. You mention it a lot. 

 

And I used to say the exact opposite until the end of last year. 

 

Both times my assessments have been accurate. 

[Fa Xin]

7 minutes ago, Earl Grey said:

 

And I used to say the exact opposite until the end of last year. 

 

Both times my assessments have been accurate. 

 

Well I hope you are enjoying your time here in some way.  Or else take a break of some sort  There are some days where I stay clear of the forum.  I think it's necessary in any online format, though, whether social media, forums or simply reading the news.  

 

One could blame the people on the forum itself. But I'm not sure how far that will get someone,  short of driving people away. It's like walking into a bar and standing up on a table, and telling everyone they are loud and annoying, that this bar used to be better when it was quieter or more serious... What does everyone, having a good time, do with that?

 

Ahh yes, the good old days! Things are cyclical though, and tend to change over time.    Maybe you'll like it a lot again, as some time passes.

[Fa Xin]

52 minutes ago, welkin said:

To the point of no self though. I don't think self empowerment has anything to do with self or no self either. It's simply a tool. To not use a tool for the purpose of no self, counter actively becomes a self.

 

Yes, I guess it depends on the terms, the toolsl and how they're used. 

 

I'll try an example...

I've become very comfortable with myself in social situations lately. I'd say that has been empowering.  But I haven't really done anything to have that happen.  It's just happened on it's own as a result of me letting go of wanting to control.  Would that be called self empowerment?  If so, there's no way I could teach it to someone, because I didn't do anything... it just gradually happened.

 

Conversely, when I've tried to be more confident in social situations, like dressing a certain way, or standing up straight or talking about certain things, I've only seemed to increase self consciousness.  It's when I don't try that good stuff happens.

 

So the "no self" thing seems to be working in empowering me.  Another paradox, I see them everywhere! lol

 

 

 

[welkin]

1 hour ago, Fa Xin said:

I'll try an example...

I've become very comfortable with myself in social situations lately. I'd say that has been empowering.  But I haven't really done anything to have that happen.  It's just happened on it's own as a result of me letting go of wanting to control.  Would that be called self empowerment?  If so, there's no way I could teach it to someone, because I didn't do anything... it just gradually happened.

 

I think we speak about the same thing in regards to the no self. I'm just saying i dont think self empowerment has anything to do with self or no self. so therefore i agree that it would have to do with the meaning of self empowerment, which my argument was that there seems to be this stigma of what it is.

 

Though, to the point of no self. I would say that not having a self or I my whole life, it's disallowed me from understanding who i am. So now, i'm just deciding to create the self from a no self perspective. But i feel that's what we're all here to do at the end of the day.

[ilumairen]

 

9 hours ago, Fa Xin said:

So the "no self" thing seems to be working in empowering me.  Another paradox, I see them everywhere! lol

 

Maybe it's just a more dynamic and natural self?