Omniscience. Game of Thrones.

[Aetherous]

14 minutes ago, thelerner said:

Who even knew he was in the running.

 

I was thinking about it as a possibility, but was wondering if they'd actually pull it off.

 

These two scenes when compared to each other were a hint:

 

 

 

[manitou]

LOL.  Yes, that was really a dark horse that came out of the barn.  I didn't think the ending was bad at all.  And Jon going off to join the wildlings was truly a surprise - but not a bad ending.

 

But I was surprised that there wasn't mention of Jon actually being the one who should be inheriting the throne.  Wouldn't he have been more likely than Bran?  Although now I guess they're building a democracy and as such will 'choose' from now on.  And right when ours is collapsing.....

[dawei]

18 hours ago, manitou said:

LOL.  Yes, that was really a dark horse that came out of the barn.  I didn't think the ending was bad at all.  And Jon going off to join the wildlings was truly a surprise - but not a bad ending.

 

But I was surprised that there wasn't mention of Jon actually being the one who should be inheriting the throne.  Wouldn't he have been more likely than Bran?  Although now I guess they're building a democracy and as such will 'choose' from now on.  And right when ours is collapsing.....

 

My son was a die-hard follower... and don't even mention his Marvel Universe madness.

 

But he was so pissed that Arya did the killing deed and not Jon, a few shows ago... and then as you mention other surprises to his ways.   Actually, it all fits him.   Arya disappears after her signature killing.  Bran can't see but he saw the ending; winter came and went, and he sits alone on a throne he didn't want.   The incestual siblings die together.   Tryion was the brains throughout but his compassion was maybe weakness to not see what was coming.  Varys saw it and was killed.    Put a red bow around it.   I didn't read the books and likely will not ever.   Next show...

[Apech]

That last episode was so weak, made me feel almost as if I had wasted a lot of time watching the rest.  

[manitou]

Am I wrong in thinking that Jon went off with the wildlings?  I saw him walk out into the snow with the red-bearded leader, his buddy.  But other things I've read online indicate that he just went back to Winterfell.  Which is it?

 

I hope there's a spinoff with Arya.

[ilumairen]

18 hours ago, manitou said:

LOL.  Yes, that was really a dark horse that came out of the barn.  I didn't think the ending was bad at all.  And Jon going off to join the wildlings was truly a surprise - but not a bad ending.

 

I really want to know where Drogon went... 

 

18 hours ago, manitou said:

But I was surprised that there wasn't mention of Jon actually being the one who should be inheriting the throne.  Wouldn't he have been more likely than Bran? 

 

 

Jon could not have been chosen. He needed to be 'punished' for 'the good of the realm ' - which he would no longer have been able to unify after that particular act that led to his incarceration.  (We do have a "here be spoilers" warning for those who haven't finished the series yet, don't we?)

 

18 hours ago, manitou said:

Although now I guess they're building a democracy and as such will 'choose' from now on.  And right when ours is collapsing.....

 

It seems to still be more oligarchy than democracy, as it is the lords and ladies who will determine which among them rule. 

 

[dawei]

14 minutes ago, Apech said:

That last episode was so weak, made me feel almost as if I had wasted a lot of time watching the rest.  

 

I keep hearing that but I love loose endings that seem to end with WTF was that.   Don't you like the feeling of, "I didn't see that BS coming?"   

 

[ilumairen]

5 minutes ago, manitou said:

Am I wrong in thinking that Jon went off with the wildlings?  I saw him walk out into the snow with the red-bearded leader, his buddy.  But other things I've read online indicate that he just went back to Winterfell.  Which is it?

 

I hope there's a spinoff with Arya.

 

He went north, where winter was receding, and could not return to Winterfell without destabilizing Sansa's rule. And do remember, deserters of the Night's Watch must be executed according to law and tradition. 

 

You were correct imo.

[dawei]

3 minutes ago, ilumairen said:

Jon could not have been chosen. He needed to be 'punished' for 'the good of the realm ' - which he would no longer have been able to unify after that particular act that led to his incarceration. 

 

I agree... and regardless of the father, still a bastard boy, right?

 

The Stark clan was said to have a very hard time to reconcile with any other ruler... they got the rule in the end.

[Apech]

1 minute ago, dawei said:

 

I keep hearing that but I love loose endings that seem to end with WTF was that.   Don't you like the feeling of, "I didn't see that BS coming?"   

 

 

 

I didn't mind the first half - up to the Jon/Dany thing.  But I found the trial scene ridiculous and also think that the Unsullied/Dothraki would have killed Jon not just held him in prison.  I predicted Sansa as Queen of 7 kingdoms but I guess just the North will do - and Bran as king?  Why?  I don't get that at all.

[Apech]

1 minute ago, dawei said:

 

I agree... and regardless of the father, still a bastard boy, right?

 

The Stark clan was said to have a very hard time to reconcile with any other ruler... they got the rule in the end.

 

 

Jon's parents were secretly married he wasn't a bastard.

[ilumairen]

16 minutes ago, Apech said:

That last episode was so weak, made me feel almost as if I had wasted a lot of time watching the rest.  

 

This sentiment is shared by my two most vocal (regarding the series) co-workers. 

 

The show writers are "plotters", and crafted the arcs to lead to their already formulated ending, while we started the series with the foundation laid by the author, a "pantser". 

 

It was more "happily ever after" than I would have anticipated from the outset. 

[Apech]

1 minute ago, ilumairen said:

 

This sentiment is shared by my two most vocal (regarding the series) co-workers. 

 

The show writers are "plotters", and crafted the arcs to lead to their already formulated ending, while we started the series with the foundation laid by the author, a "pantser". 

 

It was more "happily ever after" than I would have anticipated from the outset. 

 

What's a pantser????

[ilumairen]

3 minutes ago, dawei said:

 

I agree... and regardless of the father, still a bastard boy, right?

 

The Stark clan was said to have a very hard time to reconcile with any other ruler... they got the rule in the end.

 

House Stark, which throughout much of the series appeared inches from complete and utter annihilation, now holds the crown of both the North and the Six Kingdoms.

 

"When you play the game of thrones, you win or you die."

[dawei]

4 minutes ago, Apech said:

 

 

I didn't mind the first half - up to the Jon/Dany thing.  But I found the trial scene ridiculous and also think that the Unsullied/Dothraki would have killed Jon not just held him in prison.  I predicted Sansa as Queen of 7 kingdoms but I guess just the North will do - and Bran as king?  Why?  I don't get that at all.

 

Even the dragon seemed to give Jon a pass... that seemed telling on some level.

 

Bran... maybe just patriarchal thing.

 

thanks for clearing up the bastard thing...  I'll scratch that off my list  

[ilumairen]

7 minutes ago, Apech said:

 

What's a pantser????

 

The author's writing style. 

 

He isn't plotted out, but 'following' the characters where their choices and inclinations lead. 

 

"Writing by the seat of his pants." 

 

He was along for the ride as much as his readers were, imo.

Edited May 21, 2019 by ilumairen

[Apech]

This channel is good at summing things up:

 

 

[Aetherous]

59 minutes ago, dawei said:

But he was so pissed that Arya did the killing deed and not Jon, a few shows ago...

 

How predictable would that have been, though? I thought Arya doing it was brilliant.

 

44 minutes ago, ilumairen said:

I really want to know where Drogon went... 

 

"He was last spotted flying East..."

 

I read someone say (I think jokingly) that he took his mother to the Lord of Light to bring her back to life. Possible!

 

This article also suggests that it might have to do with Dany's vision, where she is to reunite with Khal Drogo in the afterlife: https://www.elle.com/culture/movies-tv/a27526754/game-of-thrones-finale-where-drogon-daenerys-body-flying-east/ but I'm not so into that one.

 

46 minutes ago, ilumairen said:

Jon could not have been chosen. He needed to be 'punished' for 'the good of the realm '

 

He was also pretty dumb, with continually insisting on being subservient to his murderous queen...until the end, of course. Who wants a King who behaves against all reason and goodness like that, and whose actions led to a mass murder of innocents?

 

52 minutes ago, ilumairen said:

It seems to still be more oligarchy than democracy, as it is the lords and ladies who will determine which among them rule.

 

For the time being, they have a Philosopher King.

 

1 hour ago, Apech said:

Bran as king?  Why?  I don't get that at all.

 

There's no one who could do a better job at ruling than someone who literally knows everything.

 

1 hour ago, dawei said:

Even the dragon seemed to give Jon a pass... that seemed telling on some level.

 

Jon is the last Targaryen, so I think he's basically considered to be the only family of the dragon. Also, it seems that the dragon knew what ultimately killed his mother: her aspiration toward the iron throne.

 

This was an interesting thing I read: Aegon Targaryen and his dragon forged the iron throne, and Aegon Targaryen and his dragon destroyed the iron throne.

[ilumairen]

2 minutes ago, Aetherous said:

 

How predictable would that have been, though? I thought Arya doing it was brilliant.

 

And necessary for the Red Woman/ Lord of Light arc to fit.. 

 

[dawei]

10 minutes ago, Aetherous said:

 

How predictable would that have been, though? I thought Arya doing it was brilliant.

 

 

Yes, that was my position too.

 

I heard from him that he boycotted the last episode... yea, now that's tell them 

[joeblast]

2 hours ago, dawei said:

 

I keep hearing that but I love loose endings that seem to end with WTF was that.   Don't you like the feeling of, "I didn't see that BS coming?"   

 

Not when its done solely for the "HAH!  BETCHA DIDNT GUESS THAT!" factor    Well, people arent going to guess crap tons of improbable garbage.

[manitou]

2 hours ago, ilumairen said:

 

The author's writing style. 

 

He isn't plotted out, but 'following' the characters where their choices and inclinations lead. 

 

"Writing by the seat of his pants." 

 

He was along for the ride as much as his readers were, imo.

 

 

They weren't in much of a position to do anything else.  I wrote a book once and thought I knew how it was going to turn out, but it took on a life of its own and did its own thing.  I don't think there was anything else that the 'new' writers could do.

[manitou]

55 minutes ago, Aetherous said:

 

 

This article also suggests that it might have to do with Dany's vision, where she is to reunite with Khal Drogo in the afterlife: https://www.elle.com/culture/movies-tv/a27526754/game-of-thrones-finale-where-drogon-daenerys-body-flying-east/ but I'm not so into that one.

 

 

 

 

 

That would be kind of brilliant, seeing a spinoff of Dany and Drogo together again.

[Apech]

I watched the second half again and liked it better this time.  All I can say is - that theme tune is so amazing it gives me goosebumps even now after having heard it a thousand times.  I'll miss this show.

 

 

[thelerner]

didn't mean to re-post that video. deleted.

 

I thought the ending was alright.  Didn't leave me with shock or wonder or very impressed but ending things is hard.  Its hard to keep things going for 8 seasons.   I wonder what people would have thought of a classical happy ending.

 

Almost happened, if Danerys hadn't done the last dragon attack,  instead locked eyes w/ Cersei and flew up to the castle and blasted her.  Or simply allowed her troops to enter, arrest then kill her.  Thus happy ending w/ Danerys and John.  Everybody lives.  I wonder if that would have been overly criticized as too trite. 

 

 

Did we get what we came to expect?  instead of the soft porn of earlier seasons, we got over the top violence and body count? 

Edited May 22, 2019 by thelerner