Safety and Efficiency of the Daoist Path

[welkin]

PPJ coming soon. So i won't taint it. i will ask my questions here.

 

Here's my daily plan:

 

Grounding/meditation
- 30 min walk/day (few times/week with barefoot shoes)

- 1 hr meditation/day

Energy work:

- 1 hr flying pheonix/day

 

30 min Therapy work

- (will be doing damo mitchell's course just to get basics right then stop)

- yogic stretching or scott sonnen intuflow

- floor slider for strengthening and stability

 

1 hr Physical strengthening:

- running/simming/soccer/mace workout, bodyweight exercises, routined and interchangebale

 

Diet

- i've been enjoying vegetables more recently since i've been meditating and not wanting to eat as much.

- pills: probiotics, magnesium, vitamin d, calcium

 

Clothing

- loose clothes (i realized my boxers, pants sweaters, were constraining and affecting posture. Especially the boxers!

- I realized shoes are important. I hate HATE vans and my running shoes now. I am going to try converse.

 

Please feel free to critique, add on, or take out from this.

 

Questions:
- for underwear. Tidy whities or boxers? i have bought both in a bigger size now. They obviosuly provide differnt type of support, any insights on this, since it involves our important core and testicles?

 

- any specific type of shoes recommended for optimal body posture?

 

- When running, i try to breathe in a certain manner that may be restraining, but i feel like i'm actually training my inner parts to be able to breathe more efficiently and calmly. Opinions on correct breathing when exercising?

 

[dawei]

4 hours ago, welkin said:

PPJ coming soon. So i won't taint it. i will ask my questions here.

 

Here's my daily plan:

 

Grounding/meditation
- 30 min walk/day (few times/week with barefoot shoes)

- 1 hr meditation/day

Energy work:

- 1 hr flying pheonix/day

 

30 min Therapy work

- (will be doing damo mitchell's course just to get basics right then stop)

- yogic stretching or scott sonnen intuflow

- floor slider for strengthening and stability

 

1 hr Physical strengthening:

- running/simming/soccer/mace workout, bodyweight exercises, routined and interchangebale

 

Diet

- i've been enjoying vegetables more recently since i've been meditating and not wanting to eat as much.

- pills: probiotics, magnesium, vitamin d, calcium

 

Clothing

- loose clothes (i realized my boxers, pants sweaters, were constraining and affecting posture. Especially the boxers!

- I realized shoes are important. I hate HATE vans and my running shoes now. I am going to try converse.

 

Please feel free to critique, add on, or take out from this.

 

Questions:
- for underwear. Tidy whities or boxers? i have bought both in a bigger size now. They obviosuly provide differnt type of support, any insights on this, since it involves our important core and testicles?

 

- any specific type of shoes recommended for optimal body posture?

 

- When running, i try to breathe in a certain manner that may be restraining, but i feel like i'm actually training my inner parts to be able to breathe more efficiently and calmly. Opinions on correct breathing when exercising?

 

 

What are you doing to open your heart ? 

[Sebastian]

Quote

What are you doing to open your heart ? 

 

Just expanding on Dawei's question to you....

 

When you view everything in your life or practices as an equation to solve, like a math problem, that's what we call "hard thoughts" in my tradition. When you take a step back, sigh, decide to just go with the flow, and remedy all your doubt, that's "opening the heart". Practically, this is an 18 inch journey from your head to the heart. Where are you right now ? Which direction do you want to go ?

 

Personally, I wouldn't say that only classical Taoism is safe, or efficient. I'm also not sure if I would equate Damo with classical Taoism. It's common knowledge that he pieced his system from various, sometimes opposing lineages. He is also quite candid about it. We exchanged about this subject once or twice together, I remember he said something about the body energetics or technologies being the most important things to him, because they are the fruit of the traditions. And the outer coating wasn't that important as long as the body technologies worked or something like that. I'm certainly not criticizing him or his approach, he's a good guy and very friendly, just saying that what Welkin is doing isn't all that different.  But even if you don't follow Damo's system, can you really say that the classical Taoist "boot camp" approach is the safest ? Who is to say what is really safest ? 

 

What matters most is your naturalness, in my opinion, during and especially outside practice. When you are natural, you are safe. How to be natural then ? When you run, just run. When you meditate, just meditate like you were taught. Don't try to do something extra to be natural. Don't over-think things and start changing the way you run or meditate to make things more natural, especially from advice you receive in a forum, that's how you deviate. 

 

Use your routines as way to maintain mind/body integration during the day. Don't use them to get "high" or make yourself feel safe. If you want to reflect on what you are doing, view your routine from the perspective of naturalness and common sense. You don't need to have your practices be 'vetted' by different lineages. Each lineage will have a different recommendation or emphasis, and you will start to question everything. With so much information, you won't know how to run anymore, or even walk.  

 

When you decide to be eclectic with your routine, why force yourself to follow the perspective of a traditional and strenuous path ? When you want to be spiritual, why force yourself to follow a perspective that places spirituality at the very last rung of the ladder ? Why not be integrated now, mind/body and spirit, and do everything from this unity of being. You don't need to make this the reward of standing 8 hours a day if you don't want too. Can you quiet your mind and come back to the heart, while remaining subtly aware of the body ? This is a gift that was given to humanity, not just to classical Taoists. 

 

The truth is that your sincerity, common sense and subjective effort can take you far, even without a Teacher. This sincerity will start to call out for a Teacher and he will find you at the right time. Nothing you will have done before will be in vain, if it was done naturally. It was the impetus that drew the Master to you. And from your spirit's perspective, it doesn't matter how much of practice A or practice B you do.... what matters is "how' you do your practices, what kind of a person you are, and how peaceful and loving you are. Spirit really doesn't care about taking sides about practice and lineages. It doesn't ripen based on repetition of movement, strength, or power. Truthfully you can have all these things and never develop your soul in a lifetime.

 

Just wanted to provide another perspective.... and good luck on whatever path you decide to take.

[escott]

@welkin It sounds like you subscribe to the Dragon Door school of fitness. Good stuff, but you ask about safe Daoist methods. The worst injury I ever sustained in my life was doing snatches with a 1 pood kettlebell. That was 14 years ago and my back has never been the same since. Don't get me wrong, I love kettlebells. I still use them. I was using kettlebells before they were cool and the only place you could get them was from Pavel and Dragon Door. Weight training is awesome, don't let anyone discourage you from doing it. Study after study has proven it to be a superior, life extending form of exercise. Look at Pavel Tsatsouline, he is not a big man, but very strong. His methods are very much about building internal strength, too.

 

I also tried Scott Sonnon clubbells. Didn't get into them too much, but I do like doing Turkish Get Ups with a club. Really gets the forearms burning.

 

My favorite implement now is a sandbag. Check these out - https://www.repfitness.com/conditioning/strength-equipment/sand-bags/rep-sandbags-v1

 

Add in some dumbbells and a balance ball and you have everything you need.

 

As for the other stuff...

I am have dabbled in many things over the past 30+ years. Tried Kundalini Yoga - the Yogi Bhajan people weren't my peeps. Neither were the Qaballah or Hermetic folks. I found my home with Qigong. I now practice Zhineng Qigong. I also do Zhan Zhuang. Yesterday I just got the book 'The Mind Illuminated' so that I can add sitting meditation to my regimen. Too me it all fits together perfectly.

 

It's OK to experiment. You've been given some good advice by other people here, too. I think the important thing is to find what you like then stick with it. For me the main thing has always been weight lifting. I've been doing it for 37 years (since I was 12). It changed me and is a big part of who I am today. It transformed me from a kid that always got picked on to being someone who could stand up to anyone. Today peoples' jaws drop when I tell them how old I am. They think I'm 15 years younger.

[Sebastian]

Quote

 

I remember when I was developing this at my teacher’s house. One day he decided that he didn’t like where one of his stone statues was positioned in the courtyard...

 

Bear in mind just a month earlier I saw four sweaty workers carry this thing in on a wooden pallet. It took all four of them and the use of ropes and harnesses to position it into place...

 

But my teacher (quite short, a little chubby guy in his 50’s) hugged the statue, picked it up and walked it over to its new spot like it was nothing. Then shouted at me for staring instead of practicing 😄

 

 

Does this Teacher live in Taiwan ? Something about your description about his garden, the statue, and his physical attributes really match with a Teacher I've encountered there. He was also classically trained, and it felt like he was "omniscient" as I think you've referred to. He lived in a mansion with pretty courtyard, with many statues. He was short and chubby in his 50s too. With long hair and a pony tail. But he was secretive and so I won't mention his name too.

 

[welkin]

1 hour ago, dawei said:

 

What are you doing to open your heart ? 

 

26 minutes ago, Sebastian said:

 

Just expanding on Dawei's question to you....

 

When you view everything in your life or practices as an equation to solve, like a math problem, that's what we call "hard thoughts" in my tradition. When you take a step back, sigh, decide to just go with the flow, and remedy all your doubt, that's "opening the heart". Practically, this is an 18 inch journey from your head to the heart. Where are you right now ? Which direction do you want to go ?

 

Personally, I wouldn't say that only classical Taoism is safe, or efficient. I'm also not sure if I would equate Damo with classical Taoism. It's common knowledge that he pieced his system from various, sometimes opposing lineages. He is also quite candid about it. We exchanged about this subject once or twice together, I remember he said something about the body energetics or technologies being the most important things to him, because they are the fruit of the traditions. And the outer coating wasn't that important as long as the body technologies worked or something like that. I'm certainly not criticizing him or his approach, he's a good guy and very friendly, just saying that what Welkin is doing isn't all that different.  But even if you don't follow Damo's system, can you really say that the classical Taoist "boot camp" approach is the safest ? Who is to say what is really safest ? 

 

What matters most is your naturalness, in my opinion, during and especially outside practice. When you are natural, you are safe. How to be natural then ? When you run, just run. When you meditate, just meditate like you were taught. Don't try to do something extra to be natural. Don't over-think things and start changing the way you run or meditate to make things more natural, especially from advice you receive in a forum, that's how you deviate. 

 

Use your routines as way to maintain mind/body integration during the day. Don't use them to get "high" or make yourself feel safe. If you want to reflect on what you are doing, view your routine from the perspective of naturalness and common sense. You don't need to have your practices be 'vetted' by different lineages. Each lineage will have a different recommendation or emphasis, and you will start to question everything. With so much information, you won't know how to run anymore, or even walk. 

 

Just wanted to provide another perspective.... and good luck on whatever path you decide to take.

 

I appreciate both of these.

I am actually in complete agreement with what you're saying, as that is the philosophy i live by. That being said, i realized i've been too undisciplined in the things that i do, and all this is fairly new to me. Therefore i want to create some routines and practices by which i can measure my progress. Im making the sacrifice of maybe not being as freely enjoying of certain practices in order to have poveable results. If i bleieve i have a knack for this stuff, then that means i should progress fairly quickly.

 

But i won't sacrifice my need for feel, finding innovations, etc. That's just a part of who i am. That is why i don't mind being disicplined with a small routine or practice. My natural state always brings me back to what feels right. Though i'm not gonna lie, based on the things i am able to do and learn if i really wanted to, doing all this is definitely slow feeling for me. But i need a base to start off with. I can always tweak as i go along.

 

The last couple of paragraphs are very true though. i've ran across those feelings a few times since i've been learning all this info. It's okay though, that's why i probably had postponed disciplined training for a few weeks. It just felt too boxed in. But like i said, either way i am going to begin with something and tweak.

 

Since i'm a hermit currently, For my heart, i like going to the park, observing animals and insects, walking, soccer, spending quality time with certain people.

 

 

 

 

 

[welkin]

16 minutes ago, escott said:

@welkin It sounds like you subscribe to the Dragon Door school of fitness. Good stuff, but you ask about safe Daoist methods. The worst injury I ever sustained in my life was doing snatches with a 1 pood kettlebell. That was 14 years ago and my back has never been the same since. Don't get me wrong, I love kettlebells. I still use them. I was using kettlebells before they were cool and the only place you could get them was from Pavel and Dragon Door. Weight training is awesome, don't let anyone discourage you from doing it. Study after study has proven it to be a superior, life extending form of exercise. Look at Pavel Tsatsouline, he is not a big man, but very strong. His methods are very much about building internal strength, too.

 

I also tried Scott Sonnon clubbells. Didn't get into them too much, but I do like doing Turkish Get Ups with a club. Really gets the forearms burning.

 

My favorite implement now is a sandbag. Check these out - https://www.repfitness.com/conditioning/strength-equipment/sand-bags/rep-sandbags-v1

 

Add in some dumbbells and a balance ball and you have everything you need.

 

As for the other stuff...

I am have dabbled in many things over the past 30+ years. Tried Kundalini Yoga - the Yogi Bhajan people weren't my peeps. Neither were the Qaballah or Hermetic folks. I found my home with Qigong. I now practice Zhineng Qigong. I also do Zhan Zhuang. Yesterday I just got the book 'The Mind Illuminated' so that I can add sitting meditation to my regimen. Too me it all fits together perfectly.

 

It's OK to experiment. You've been given some good advice by other people here, too. I think the important thing is to find what you like then stick with it. For me the main thing has always been weight lifting. I've been doing it for 37 years (since I was 12). It changed me and is a big part of who I am today. It transformed me from a kid that always got picked on to being someone who could stand up to anyone. Today peoples' jaws drop when I tell them how old I am. They think I'm 15 years younger.

 

Agreed @escott. I've had my rough share of weightlifitng injuries and experiences. I am in love with fitness all together, so no way i'd ever give up these things in my life. However, i've slightly changed my perspective of what progress is, and i've over the last couple of years have learned to tone down ego, and look at the subtleties of every movement. As in find the imperfections, make things harder in the subtleties.

 

Went from doing 225+ bench for reps with explosion, to feeling every part of the movement, understanding the breathing, recruiting as the correct muscles, understanding body mechanics, etc. Which in turn i believe can build better quality muscle, reduce injury, and actually look stronger. And i believe heavy lifting can be used every so often, to test ones ability to focus and recruit muscles when stressed.

 

So i will be experimenting of course. I really enjoy feeling healthy, mobile, flexible, "strong" in a different way. So i won't be sacrificing those comforts for looks, but i also won't be looking like Buddha as i have been looking recently lol.

 

We'll see though. as mentioned by some. i don't want to neutralize certain practices to gain certain muscle look.

 

 

[Sebastian]

 

Quote

. Im making the sacrifice of maybe not being as freely enjoying of certain practices in order to have poveable results

 

Okay but make sure you don't sacrifice enjoyment for discipline... 

 

The state of mind you do your practices with is significant, because they will amplify whatever 'input' you bring to them. If you do your practices in a calm and enjoying mood, then the result will be most agreeable to you. If you do them as a performer or in a rushed way, then the result will be more of that energy. 

 

Wanting "provable results" can come from the performer's perspective. It can lead to doing practices with expectation and attaching to outcomes. Your Qi will start to float. Spirit is the beginner's mind, it doesn't need tight control or validation along the way, it needs you to repeatedly offer your innocent mind and trust to whatever you are doing, ideally something greater than yourself.

 

Can you reconcile the too ? Use your mind to find efficiencies, I think that's good. But when your practices are set-up, allow and don't perform. When the practice is done, forget the outcome. Forgive yourself for wanting to attach to outcomes. Don't judge yourself for not living up to your expectations.

 

If you can practice like that, you will slowly harmonize your three entities of body, mind and spirit. Softening the mind is a good first step in this regard. This includes softening your perspectives to become more curious and allowing. It includes trading hard thoughts for gentle thoughts.

 

Soft thoughts is like when you take a step back and see everything in your experience as a day-dream. Thoughts come in as a breeze and you don't apply strong force or direction to them. Remember that when you hold on to your practices too tightly, this tightness will reflect in your energetic body. 

 

Hope it helps

[welkin]

1 hour ago, Sebastian said:

 

 

Okay but make sure you don't sacrifice enjoyment for discipline... 

 

The state of mind you do your practices with is significant, because they will amplify whatever 'input' you bring to them. If you do your practices in a calm and enjoying mood, then the result will be most agreeable to you. If you do them as a performer or in a rushed way, then the result will be more of that energy. 

 

Wanting "provable results" can come from the performer's perspective. It can lead to doing practices with expectation and attaching to outcomes. Your Qi will start to float. Spirit is the beginner's mind, it doesn't need tight control or validation along the way, it needs you to repeatedly offer your innocent mind and trust to whatever you are doing, ideally something greater than yourself.

 

Can you reconcile the too ? Use your mind to find efficiencies, I think that's good. But when your practices are set-up, allow and don't perform. When the practice is done, forget the outcome. Forgive yourself for wanting to attach to outcomes. Don't judge yourself for not living up to your expectations.

 

If you can practice like that, you will slowly harmonize your three entities of body, mind and spirit. Softening the mind is a good first step in this regard. This includes softening your perspectives to become more curious and allowing. It includes trading hard thoughts for gentle thoughts.

 

Soft thoughts is like when you take a step back and see everything in your experience as a day-dream. Thoughts come in as a breeze and you don't apply strong force or direction to them. Remember that when you hold on to your practices too tightly, this tightness will reflect in your energetic body. 

 

Hope it helps

 

Resonates completely. Invaluable advice.

 

Thank you

[freeform]

3 hours ago, Sebastian said:

The state of mind you do your practices with is significant

 

This is spot on advice.

 

What Steve mentioned is also important.

 

What you’re ‘doing’ in these arts is setting up conditions or qualities in yourself... These conditions then give rise to the ‘fruit’ of the practice.

 

Each lineage will have its own roadmap of inner conditions... each teacher will have their own methods of generating these conditions.

 

All these practices are tools to generate qualities/conditions.

 

Only a teacher that has achieved these conditions and received the fruit will be able to see if you have the qualities fully created or not.

 

So of course Damo has a mixture of practices. My very traditional teachers do too... as well as other ‘skilful means’ to help you embody the correct qualities.

 

A Buddhist line I’ve trained in achieved the transformation of the ‘inner body’ that I described through a completely different means - they used a combination alchemical pills and full mental absorption into the tissues for 12hrs a day - instead of qigong.

 

From the top of a mountain you can see new approaches to the top. From the bottom you best stay on the path you’re being shown or you’ll die.

 

You can’t really innovate or make anything more efficient as a student because you don’t know what’s ahead of you or even what you’re aiming for...

 

In my experience high level teachers tend to turn away prospective students that are oriented this way. For them it just spells trouble.

 

So just relax. Take one thing at a time. Humour, irreverence and humility are major qualities to embody for Daoist practice.

 

Training will be difficult and uncomfortable.

 

Uncomfortable often means psychologically uncomfortable too. Your ideas about yourself will be challenged.

 

At that stage you can choose ‘no I’m right, I know what I’m doing’ or remember humility, humour and irreverence for yourself...

 

Meaning you either step off the path or you make an internal change and clear the hurdle and proceed on the path.

[welkin]

2 hours ago, freeform said:

So just relax. Take one thing at a time. Humour, irreverence and humility are major qualities to embody for Daoist practice.

 

Training will be difficult and uncomfortable.

 

Uncomfortable often means psychologically uncomfortable too. Your ideas about yourself will be challenged.

 

At that stage you can choose ‘no I’m right, I know what I’m doing’ or remember humility, humour and irreverence for yourself...

 

Meaning you either step off the path or you make an internal change and clear the hurdle and proceed on the path.

 

I understand. To be honest, i naturally gravitate towards that. I find that creating ones life around ones physical body is a simple shift in priority. Though it looks like i'm overly obsessing, my body and mind naturally gravitate towards it. I enjoy wearing comfortable looser clothes, i enjoy walking and knowing things work correctly, ever since i started meditating more and fasting, my body naturally wants healthier foods, i really enjoy going to the park and meditating daily. The exercise was already a part of my life.

 

That being said, i know the message clearly. I will do my best to be understanding of myself and enjoy the process. won't be overly harsh. I am the epitome of that in my previous life. But also, my life has been all over the place, from the beginning of joining the forum. one of the most sound advice was to get some simple routines going. I believe this is what i am beginning to do and hope to start building upon to gain momentum again.

 

Btw, I got Damo Mitchell's Foundations of Qigong. Great call on that one. I feel like he answers in detial a lot of the quesitons i'm sure a lot of beginner practitioners have. I have improved tremendously in some physical aspects already in just 1 session.

 

Will be studying this and getting my body prepped up for optimal qigong practice.

 

 

[Spotless]

On 5/15/2019 at 11:35 PM, welkin said:

 

@freeform

 

I'm interested in the safety and efficiency factors of the Daoist path. What if we take the middle ground of doing alone style practice (yes i know everyone says get a master). Unfortunately a lot of people and possibly me included (not sure yet), prefer to practice on our own. So of course even if it is recommended with a master, what sort of safety measures and efficiency paths can we take? It'd be worse for that knowledge not to be spread around knowing that people are going to take a riskier path anyways.

 

For example, let's say the goal is energy or paranormal work such as healing, astral projection, telekinsesis, etc. What are the prerequsities one should have or take?

For the goals stated in bold above it takes very very little work - these are simple things. Certainly they can be quite interesting and one can spend years or a lifetime and more on them - but they are very simple and easy to attain even at high levels with very little effort.

 

Telekinesis will only be simple to the extent of far greater development so ones abilities in this will be far more defined not by simple effort but according to fundamental and vast transitions of one’s nature. It is a simple ability that requires no- effort but to any real degree it requires a great deal.

 

Astral projection for many happens with no effort - and learning it is something easily done from internet videos.

 

Energy work is something everyone does all the time - practicing it is more like developing a muscle you already have and that is already fully working but simply weak and not flexed all that much in skillful ways. The internet teaches  this stuff all day long.

 

Want to wake up your kundalini?  This is incredibly easy - the Internet has a thousand ways - and even without practice it may awaken in all sorts of ways.

There are also kundalini recovery groups and retreat centers - and outreach for those in psychiatric care facilities.

 

Want to channel? Again this is something humans do all the time but to bring it up a notch is a piece of cake. In fact it can literally be a piece of cake - sugar is a great way to channel for those looking to channel in the fastest way possible. Humans spend nearly every moment in trance - channeling requires trance. Want to experience massive trance channeling? Go to a Fundamentalist religious service - or any with lots of steady vibrant upping of the energies and quotes and shouting.

 

What is great is that the more easily prone you are to having these experiences and other incredible experiences the easier it will be to find your island paradises and eat the grapes and live in the fantastical worlds.

 

you can also easily learn to manipulate others and not just yourself - particularly if you accept the highest platitudes for yourself. It’s super easy to learn how to know you are virtuous and truthful - everyone is born with this natural assumption - just don’t question yourself and if others don’t like it - why would you care?  If you are headed to a hell realm you can fix that when you get to them.

 

The candy store is everywhere - but candy never was food - the islands and the grapes they provide were never real - no terra firma. The Rabbits way is a grandiose and pompous way even if it’s modest - it’s built on a foundation of ME.

 

(In Me-ness you might become a wizard but it will be in a dry desert)

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited May 18, 2019 by Spotless

[welkin]

is it bad to practice specific qigong movement without doing an entire sequence of movements?

 

So for example, (pardon me, i don't know any names yet). But in flying pheonix it's called arm rolling.

 

If i just wanted to do this for like 20 minutes. would that be bad?

 

 

Assuming it is very hard not to do certain things if you have the ability to. such as levitating your hand on an armrest by throwing out energy for example.

Does one waste a lot of energy doing this? What is protocol for before and after? Sometimes i see videos of them using one hand to transfer the energy from the opposite hand to the chest to the lower dantien.

 

When we meditate or do qigong movements, is it all building energy inside the lower dantien or are there specific types of things one must do to store that energy? Currently i'm doing simple meditation and flying pheonix by Terry Dunn.
 

 

[welkin]

ok deciding to talk about this because i don't want to have it in the back of my mind wondering anymore.

 

Last week, my upstairs neighbor was being grumpy bitter man, and was stomping. i get mad and decided to raise my hand and throw energy at the roof where he was. He goes to the bathroom to turn on the shower, comes back and i hear a big fall noise in the same area where i shot up energy. one would think it's just coincidence. Btw, in my defense, before he came back i was like sh** what am i doing and drew as much of it back as i could.

 

Real? should i not even mind it? if it's real that is something to worry about? This literally looks like a scene from star wars where i start going to the dark side.

Edited May 22, 2019 by welkin

[freeform]

2 hours ago, welkin said:

flying pheonix by Terry Dunn

 

You'll need to ask him

[freeform]

2 hours ago, welkin said:

Real?

 

Probably not. It doesn’t matter either way though.

 

2 hours ago, welkin said:

throw energy

 

Wether imaginary or real - you’re depleting your kidneys... which eventually closes the door on any further internal cultivation.

[welkin]

52 minutes ago, freeform said:

 

You'll need to ask him

 

Will do.

 

48 minutes ago, freeform said:

Wether imaginary or real - you’re depleting your kidneys... which eventually closes the door on any further internal cultivation.

 

So you're saying any experimentation with these energies is only affecting me negatively in the long run? Is it because you believe i should get to a certain level of development in a system before doing that? To a certain degree i believed the fact that i am able to do certain energy feats meant that i had developed those things naturally, though maybe not necessarily as disciplined, controlled, or built through a specific practice.

 

How about healing myself with my hands? Should i not be doing that either?

[freeform]

2 hours ago, welkin said:

So you're saying any experimentation with these energies is only affecting me negatively in the long run?

 

Yup

 

2 hours ago, welkin said:

Is it because you believe i should get to a certain level of development in a system before doing that?

 

Yeah. Not just me but classical traditions that have had thousands of years of experience in this sort of stuff 

 

2 hours ago, welkin said:

To a certain degree i believed the fact that i am able to do certain energy feats meant that i had developed those things naturally

 

I understand.

 

There are cause and effect chains in everything you do. I get that when you first get into energetic arts things can be exciting and seem kind of magical... but the reality is that there’s quite mechanistic principles behind most phenomena... It’s not that magical once you understand how it works.

 

Just like long distance runners dropping dead in the middle of a race - it’s possible to do yourself great harm if you don’t understand and follow the principles...

 

There are many pitfalls even if you are really skilful and know what you’re doing - for example the famous Jiang Feng recently dropped dead in the middle of a healing treatment because of an error... So if you’re doing things without even knowing what it is you’re doing, you’re much more likely to cause yourself harm.

 

There’s nothing wrong with causing yourself harm of course - many fun things are harmful - but it’s worth at least knowing what you’re doing and how it’ll affect you.

 

And don’t worry - you’re not likely to drop dead from the stuff that you’re doing... Jiang Feng developed great skill in transmitting very dense, concentrated Qi - so when things go wrong they really go badly wrong... like the difference between crashing while riding a super bike vs a tricycle

[qofq]

7 hours ago, freeform said:

 

 

And don’t worry - you’re not likely to drop dead from the stuff that you’re doing... Jiang Feng developed great skill in transmitting very dense, concentrated Qi - so when things go wrong they really go badly wrong... like the difference between crashing while riding a super bike vs a tricycle

 

Did you ever meat that person (or otherwise confirm skill)?

 

He rang fraudulent to me.

But I'm ok being corrected.

[welkin]

7 hours ago, freeform said:

Yeah. Not just me but classical traditions that have had thousands of years of experience in this sort of stuff 

 

 

There are cause and effect chains in everything you do. I get that when you first get into energetic arts things can be exciting and seem kind of magical... but the reality is that there’s quite mechanistic principles behind most phenomena... It’s not that magical once you understand how it works.

 

Just like long distance runners dropping dead in the middle of a race - it’s possible to do yourself great harm if you don’t understand and follow the principles...

 

There are many pitfalls even if you are really skilful and know what you’re doing - for example the famous Jiang Feng recently dropped dead in the middle of a healing treatment because of an error... So if you’re doing things without even knowing what it is you’re doing, you’re much more likely to cause yourself harm.

 

There’s nothing wrong with causing yourself harm of course - many fun things are harmful - but it’s worth at least knowing what you’re doing and how it’ll affect you.

 

And don’t worry - you’re not likely to drop dead from the stuff that you’re doing... Jiang Feng developed great skill in transmitting very dense, concentrated Qi - so when things go wrong they really go badly wrong... like the difference between crashing while riding a super bike vs a tricycle

 

Thanks for this. it makes sense.

 

I'm curious about something that i've been wondering for a while now.

 

So if there are all these prerequisites to working with energy. Do ccult or those who do magick, get affected negatively assuming they don't go through prerequisites? or is it that they aren't affected because they are drawing energy from a different realm? hence magic?

 

 

[freeform]

9 hours ago, qofq said:

 

Did you ever meat that person (or otherwise confirm skill)?

 

He rang fraudulent to me.

But I'm ok being corrected.

 

I didn’t meet Jiang Feng. I did meet a couple of students of his teacher Xuan Kong - and they could demonstrate some of the same skills. They’re not so open and public about it though.

 

I’ve also met other cultivators from different lines who have developed their Yi Jin Jing skills to the same level. It’s not uncommon in some circles.

[freeform]

9 hours ago, welkin said:

So if there are all these prerequisites to working with energy. Do ccult or those who do magick, get affected negatively assuming they don't go through prerequisites? or is it that they aren't affected because they are drawing energy from a different realm? hence magic?

 

I’m really not an expert on Occultism. The people I’ve met also go through a long period of building the foundations... just slightly differently. Hermetics is the same.

 

There is also sorcery which requires less of a foundation - you’re basically giving away parts of yourSelf to spirits in exchange for magical effects. Foolish trade if you ask me.

 

Also 3 years is really not that long. It takes at least 3 years to get a foundation in anything... drawing, architecture, dance, comedy - you really can’t expect to get good at anything without doing some work...Those 3 years will go whether you use them to practice or not

 

 

[welkin]

Is there anything wrong with releasing tension/clearing out blockages through breathing in and and then focusing on the area to extract the tension by breathing out?

 

Just want to make sure this isn't one of those, 'no you're just draining your kidneys' type of things.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited June 22, 2019 by welkin