Shambhala

[Starjumper]

Quote

 

You need Sterny !  Have you seen his threads here on Atlantis ?

 

I can help you unravel the Shambala  mystery if you like.  On the physical plane that is.   I can show some very old history on it, how it developed a root philosophy that penetrated into  all mainstream western religions, teachings associated with it and the general area

( Tagzig Olmo Lung Ring -   Tagzig ; modern day  Tajikistan -  western lands of wisdom , while in the 'west' wisdom is said to have come from the east. )  And it will also include the unveiling of a lost civilisation.

 

I'm not talking  fantasy here ... I can back it up with science history and archaeology .     

 

To actually find its location (Kalapa), within that area would then be up to you.   Let me know if interested  and I (or you could ) start a new thread on Shambhala 

 

 

~   ~   ~   ~   ~   ~

 

Edit:  OOps, that was two different subjects that I ran together - stayed awake all night last night.

Edited May 21, 2019 by Starjumper

[Pilgrim]

Sounds great Steve I would love to read about it please do start a thread.

[Starjumper]

4 minutes ago, Pilgrim said:

Sounds great Steve I would love to read about it please do start a thread.

 

I don't know anything about it but I would like to learn ... more about the physical part.

[ilumairen]

Calling @Nungali

 

1 hour ago, Starjumper said:

I can help you unravel the Shambala  mystery if you like.  On the physical plane that is.   I can show some very old history on it, how it developed a root philosophy that penetrated into  all mainstream western religions, teachings associated with it and the general area

( Tagzig Olmo Lung Ring -   Tagzig ; modern day  Tajikistan -  western lands of wisdom , while in the 'west' wisdom is said to have come from the east. )  And it will also include the unveiling of a lost civilisation.

 

The boys are requesting your unravelling skills, and somehow forgot to attribute or tag you. Late night postings sometimes cause that. 

 

[Nungali]

8 hours ago, Starjumper said:

 

I don't know anything about it but I would like to learn ... more about the physical part.

 

Okay , here is     A THEORY       (all please note this part )

 

Firstly its all 'pre history'  and, as usual, knowledge from pre history is collated form a variety of sources; anecdotal, myth,  religious texts, oral traditions, archaeology , linguistics, etc .

 

I will mostly focus on the 'western knowledge' about it as most of the eastern stuff is known and is easy to find on the internet . But from those sources, some indicate a direction west of the Himalayan  plateau . While in the west the source of wisdom and enlightenment is to the east .  The 'western' knowledge  is actually sourced in Central Asia and from that evolved western religions ( from Zoroastrianism, the earliest ,and then Judaism, Christianity, Islam and Baha'i . All hold key principles inherited from an earlier time. So I will be focusing on Zoroastrianism as a route source.  But the idea passed on in all the other religions as either 1)  an original homeland - 'Garden of Eden' or 2) a return to that place and way of life 'Para-diz' ) originally  linguistically relating to 'beautiful garden'  , where we got our word and concept of 'Paradise' from - which can be two things - 'heaven', after death, or the idea of a regeneration, second coming , 'New Jerusalem'  on earth etc

 

Also in Central Asia where the origins of 'Hinduism' and Vedanta  and it is postulated ( due to similarities in religious texts and genetic markers in present populations )  that both religions formed out of a 'Proto-Indo-Europen' core, or possibly more correctly, a Proto-Indo-Iranian core .  So the earliest Vedas and  Avestas are sourced . But aside from this , Iranian  pre history is also formed from 'mythical accounts' ( Bundahisn , Shahnameh, etc . ) and what is known as the 'Pishdadian Era'  - generally considered .mythical.

 

It talks about an ancient empire  stretching from the Iranian Plateau, with links to the east to Mesoptamia, crossing the deserts of central Asia via the Southern Oasis route and across to the east into the Pamir mountains, where 'back door' routes went further to the east, towards the  Tarim basin. Also there where connections down into the Indus Valley and its civilisations and up to the north, east of the Oxus  River ( an area later termed Bactria)  joining into the northern Silk Route.

 

                                                      

 

Thats how the ancient Egyptians got Lapis Lazuli all the way from 'Afghanistan' .  Also, remember the 'Tarim Basin Caucasian mummies'.

 

Like i said, all this was inferred   from  semi-mythical accounts. Until .... first Pumperly   ( I think his name was ) then the Soviet backed Sarianidi  did the first archaeological digs in the area. This was as recent as the 1970s and due to bad relations with Soviets, the research was little known. After the collapse of Soviet Union, access was better for a while, but then war set in. making it hard to access, The area is hard to access in the best of times  anyway .  recently better collaborations between USA, French and Australian scientists and those of  these, now, non Soviet countries have revealed a lot more ... a lot of the research  is still untranslated and in Russian .

 

Anyway, here is what turned up ;

 

http://discovermagazine.com/2006/nov/ancient-towns-excavated-turkmenistan

 

So, that is the background, for what might fit the 'stories' myth and elements of the 'Pishdadians ' .   Next I will look at the founding 'myths' of these people and look at their concept of 'Shamballa' .

[Nungali]

7 hours ago, ilumairen said:

Calling @Nungali

 

 

The boys are requesting your unravelling skills,......

 

 

 

 

[welkin]

17 minutes ago, Nungali said:

 

Okay , here is     A THEORY       (all please note this part )

 

Firstly its all 'pre history'  and, as usual, knowledge from pre history is collated form a variety of sources; anecdotal, myth,  religious texts, oral traditions, archaeology , linguistics, etc .

 

I will mostly focus on the 'western knowledge' about it as most of the eastern stuff is known and is easy to find on the internet . But from those sources, some indicate a direction west of the Himalayan  plateau . While in the west the source of wisdom and enlightenment is to the east .  The 'western' knowledge  is actually sourced in Central Asia and from that evolved western religions ( from Zoroastrianism, the earliest ,and then Judaism, Christianity, Islam and Baha'i . All hold key principles inherited from an earlier time. So I will be focusing on Zoroastrianism as a route source.  But the idea passed on in all the other religions as either 1)  an original homeland - 'Garden of Eden' or 2) a return to that place and way of life 'Para-diz' ) originally  linguistically relating to 'beautiful garden'  , where we got our word and concept of 'Paradise' from - which can be two things - 'heaven', after death, or the idea of a regeneration, second coming , 'New Jerusalem'  on earth etc

 

Also in Central Asia where the origins of 'Hinduism' and Vedanta  and it is postulated ( due to similarities in religious texts and genetic markers in present populations )  that both religions formed out of a 'Proto-Indo-Europen' core, or possibly more correctly, a Proto-Indo-Iranian core .  So the earliest Vedas and  Avestas are sourced . But aside from this , Iranian  pre history is also formed from 'mythical accounts' ( Bundahisn , Shahnameh, etc . ) and what is known as the 'Pishdadian Era'  - generally considered .mythical.

 

It talks about an ancient empire  stretching from the Iranian Plateau, with links to the east to Mesoptamia, crossing the deserts of central Asia via the Southern Oasis route and across to the east into the Pamir mountains, where 'back door' routes went further to the east, towards the  Tarim basin. Also there where connections down into the Indus Valley and its civilisations and up to the north, east of the Oxus  River ( an area later termed Bactria)  joining into the northern Silk Route.

 

                                                      

 

Thats how the ancient Egyptians got Lapis Lazuli all the way from 'Afghanistan' .  Also, remember the 'Tarim Basin Caucasian mummies'.

 

 

So this was an ancient empire, but you're saying that wasn't shamballa right? Please share more

 

 

[welkin]

Also, anyone want to go to China?

 

 

[Starjumper]

21 hours ago, ilumairen said:

Quote

Edit:  OOps, that was two different subjects that I ran together - stayed awake all night last night.

 

The boys are requesting your unravelling skills, and somehow forgot to attribute or tag you. Late night postings sometimes cause that. 

 

Actually I posted it this morning.  My wife made me eat a whole bunch of chocolate last evening (Saturday evening) and it kept me awake all night.  So this morning I was really wired, so I smoked a bunch of dope and made a chi kung video.  High energy head stuff, it was strong enough to make me breath fast even though it was hardly moving.  If I put the video on Utube I'll put a warning on it like follows:  "If you have high blood pressure or are a wacko then bend over and kiss your ass goodbye before starting this exercise regimen"  (well, I suppose people wouldn't feel anything if they ain't got no juice)

 

I ate more chocolate this evening  

Edited May 20, 2019 by Starjumper

[Starjumper]

7 hours ago, welkin said:

 

So this was an ancient empire, but you're saying that wasn't shamballa right? Please share more

 

 

I think he's saying it comes from somewhere around here or South of here, in the Pamir area.  This is a page from my site that is no longer linked to which tells a little about the area.

 

Origins of Tien Shan Chi Kung

 

In the heart of Asia lies the enormous, mysterious massif of the Tian Shan Mountains, from which rivers flow East from the timbered ridges of the Sayan, to sink and die in the hot sands of Western Khayan. It stretches over a huge portion of Central Asia.

 

The cradle of peoples, histories and legends; the native land of bloody conquerors, who have left nearby their capitals covered by the sand of the Gobi, their mysterious rings and their ancient nomad laws; the states of monks and evil devils, the country of wandering tribes administered by the descendants of Genghiz Khan and Kublai Khan, the Khans and Princes of the Junior lines: that is Tien Shan.

 

The land of mysterious doctors, prophets, sorcerers, fortune-tellers and witches; the land which has not forgotten the thoughts of the long deceased great potentates of Asia and of half of Europe: that is Tien Shan.

 

The land of nude mountains, of plains burned by the sun and killed by the cold; the land of boiling hot springs and of mountain passes inhabited by demons; of sacred lakes swarming with fish; of wolves, rare species of deer and mountain goats, marmots in millions, wild horses, wild donkeys and wild camels that have never known the bridle, ferocious dogs and rapacious birds of prey which devour the dead bodies cast out on the plains by the people: that is Tien Shan.

 

Tien Shan, the land whose disappearing primitive people gaze upon the bones of their forefathers whitening in the sands and dust of their plains; where are dying out the people who formerly conquered China, Thailand, Northern India and Russia.

 

 

Khan Tegri - master of the Tien Shan range:

 

Edited May 20, 2019 by Starjumper

[welkin]

1 hour ago, Starjumper said:

 

I think he's saying it comes from somewhere around here or South of here, in the Pamir area.  This is a page from my site that is no longer linked to which tells a little about the area.

 

Origins of Tien Shan Chi Kung

 

In the heart of Asia lies the enormous, mysterious massif of the Tian Shan Mountains, from which rivers flow East from the timbered ridges of the Sayan, to sink and die in the hot sands of Western Khayan. It stretches over a huge portion of Central Asia.

 

The cradle of peoples, histories and legends; the native land of bloody conquerors, who have left nearby their capitals covered by the sand of the Gobi, their mysterious rings and their ancient nomad laws; the states of monks and evil devils, the country of wandering tribes administered by the descendants of Genghiz Khan and Kublai Khan, the Khans and Princes of the Junior lines: that is Tien Shan.

 

The land of mysterious doctors, prophets, sorcerers, fortune-tellers and witches; the land which has not forgotten the thoughts of the long deceased great potentates of Asia and of half of Europe: that is Tien Shan.

 

The land of nude mountains, of plains burned by the sun and killed by the cold; the land of boiling hot springs and of mountain passes inhabited by demons; of sacred lakes swarming with fish; of wolves, rare species of deer and mountain goats, marmots in millions, wild horses, wild donkeys and wild camels that have never known the bridle, ferocious dogs and rapacious birds of prey which devour the dead bodies cast out on the plains by the people: that is Tien Shan.

 

Tien Shan, the land whose disappearing primitive people gaze upon the bones of their forefathers whitening in the sands and dust of their plains; where are dying out the people who formerly conquered China, Thailand, Northern India and Russia.

 

 

Khan Tegri - master of the Tien Shan range:

 

 

Did you ever visit? baesd on the description on your website, seems like a spooky place to live in.

[Starjumper]

15 hours ago, welkin said:

 

Did you ever visit? based on the description on your website, seems like a spooky place to live in.

 

I never visited but I have often thought about it.  The reason it sounds spooky is because I lifted that description off of a book written almost a hundred years ago and edited it a little.  If there are any of those people left then they are probably 'civilized' now, what with the Muslims being on one side and the communists being on the other side.  Also, like Nungali said, it is a huge area and very hard to get to.  How to know what spot is the sweet spot?  A very sensitive psychic person may be able to find 'the place', and a group of wizards, even 4000 years ago, will leave a strong energy signature in the land that should still be there.  (Some people are able to feel heat energy in some of the undisturbed stone circles in England) I myself used to do a lot of extended week long hiking trips into the mountains of Washington, which are similar to the Tien Shan.  The Washington mountains are steeper, but not as high an altitude.  This was taken during a day trip going down from the high camp.  The red plants are wild blueberry plants.

 

 

16 hours ago, Starjumper said:

... their capitals covered by the sand of the Gobi, their mysterious rings and their ancient ...

 

I wonder what will happen to this ring when I die?

 

Edited May 20, 2019 by Starjumper

[silent thunder]

Nice topic and really appreciate the pics Starjumper.  That Mountain really sings, as does the valley and that gem in the last one... woof!

 

I'm a crystal/gem hound and a blade collector from way back.  Been very keen on their presence since childhood and the setting for that stone is pure awesome.  Tesla spoke of the awareness and presence of crystals at length.  Would love to hear its story if you feel like sharing.

 

Incidentally, I have two Wakizashis in my collection (stainless blades not high carbon) with identical habaki, tsuba, tsuka and kashira to the one you're holding.  Though I swapped out the tsuka ito changing the nylon cord from the factory with soft leather for durability and grip. 

[Everything]

There have been more civilizations, even far more and far greater and far more advanced than ours, more civilizations than you can count, who have been here on this planet earth. 

 

But because most people, don't really take into account, the non-physical existance, they tend to think in terms of "death."  When in reality, there exists no such thing as death. So then you realise, whenever you think you "lose" something, you are thinking based on a flawed premise, that becoming less is possible. When in reality, only expansion exists. Only becoming more. Nothing ever gets lost. 

 

So when you realise, those civilizations which have become more, and you're interested in them, you don't need to digg the soil to find them! You just need to meet them in the moreness of all of that which they have become and are evermore becoming, right here and now! So you can meet those you are interested in, more fully in the here and now. 

 

When you understand how consciousness and reality as the evermore expansion of the resonances within your consciousness works. You realise, your own inner being, is huge. And your life here has even caused it to become more. 

 

Like a flower, from seed to full realisation, when the flower dies, it is not dying. From the physical point of view, yes, it seems that the full becoming of that flower is becoming lost. But that is because YOU ARE FOCUSED HERE IN THE PHYSICAL. You are not going with that flower towards the moreness of all that will become evermore. So your ability to distinguish the preciseness of all that greatness of all the specificness and vast immense beauty of that flower, is not yet fully allowed to be realised by you, so you don't perceive it and so you don't translate it through your physical senses, but that doesn't mean it doesn't exist! As it does and will do so everMORE and not less. The flower is not gonna become less and then say hi to you. It expects you to meet it in the moreness of all that it has become, why? Because you are going to become the moreness of all that you have become and will be becoming evermore so aswell. The flower knows you are that worthy. Why? It has become the full blown realisation of all that worthiness, so it can fully recognize it in everything aswell. 

 

Just like your relationship with your ring, is in the process of evermore becoming, and has already infact become huge and more than anything than you can ever possibly imagine all of it to be. But you can feel your way, towards the perspective, that is the most aligned with all of that, along the path of least resistance, so that you can come to realisation of allowed flow of inspiration of appreciation that can help you develop further clarity of all that that means to you, and will be the evermore becoming of all the moreness of all that you have truely become right here and now aswell. And also will be allowing yourself the full blown conscious realisation of all of it evermore once you "die?" No, once you allow your life, to become more life, as it always will do so evermore. 

 

And then you say, it is lost... It is not lost! You are simply going in another direction, for the purpose of your very own further expansion and natural evolution and evermore becoming the moreness of all that is who it is you truely are and are evermore becoming the moreness of evermore aswell. But the fact that you would even say such a thing, means that it has become more, and you're not allowing your consciousness to move with it. Because you love it, then you say it is lost. Because it is waiting for you to meet it, where it already is and knows you will be too. Once you allow yourself to be there. 

 

So when you translate through your physical senses, yeah, you cannot distinguish all of that immense specificness into a meaningful translation, of even all that you have become. Even your imagination can sort of pinky finger tap into the full integrated realisation of all of that which will be evermore for you, but that's it. So then you have to understand your relationship with that, is primarily an emotional, energy motional, one. Why? Because your ability to translate energy motionally is by far your most sophisticated energy translator, and so you can feel your way towards your very own full blown realisation of all of it, evermore. Because everything exists here and now. Always has been and always will be. Nothing has ever been lost. It is all just waiting for you, evermore, to allow yourself to come to your very own full blown realisation of it evermore. 

 

So then when you allow yourself to be an unconditional being. You can even allow your relationship with your ring to become more, right here and now, to the point that you can translate it through your physical senses as a full blown realisation of a full blown physical reality that you can taste, touch, see, hear, smell, etc. And you are always moving towards that. But if you pay attention to how you are feeling in every moment, then you become a conscious and deliberate realiser. And that's the joy in the journey you are looking for. 

Edited May 20, 2019 by Everything

[Nungali]

23 hours ago, welkin said:

 

So this was an ancient empire, but you're saying that wasn't shamballa right? Please share more

 

 

 

I'm getting there  .....  'Shamballa' was part of this civilisation and  was said to be its first established centre or 'Homeland' .

[Nungali]

16 hours ago, Starjumper said:

 

Actually I posted it this morning.  My wife made me eat a whole bunch of chocolate last evening (Saturday evening) and it kept me awake all night.  So this morning I was really wired, so I smoked a bunch of dope and made a chi kung video.  High energy head stuff, it was strong enough to make me breath fast even though it was hardly moving.  If I put the video on Utube I'll put a warning on it like follows:  "If you have high blood pressure or are a wacko then bend over and kiss your ass goodbye before starting this exercise regimen"  (well, I suppose people wouldn't feel anything if they ain't got no juice)

 

I ate more chocolate this evening  

 

Aha The 'endless cycle  .    Potatoes are yin . You eat a lot of them, you might feel a need to eat something else yang, to balance it. (This usually happens unconsciously )  sugar is very yang, (so is chocolate and coffee ..... its starting to all fit together now, eh ?   ) .

 

Hooch is 500 times more yin than potatoes !    No matter how many little yang hits you take after it .... they just won't do ! You need concentrated  yang .... some sickly sugar loaded sticky super chocko something .... ANYTHING !   - otherwise known as the dreaded ....

 

MUNCHIES! 

 

Or eat chocolate all night and .... excuse me ....   'get forced to eat'      chocolate all night , you gonna need a 'morning balance' - or conversely, smoke  all night  and in the morning ....

 

[Nungali]

16 hours ago, Starjumper said:

 

I think he's saying it comes from somewhere around here or South of here, in the Pamir area.  This is a page from my site that is no longer linked to which tells a little about the area.

 

Origins of Tien Shan Chi Kung

 

In the heart of Asia lies the enormous, mysterious massif of the Tian Shan Mountains, from which rivers flow East from the timbered ridges of the Sayan, to sink and die in the hot sands of Western Khayan. It stretches over a huge portion of Central Asia.

 

The cradle of peoples, histories and legends; the native land of bloody conquerors, who have left nearby their capitals covered by the sand of the Gobi, their mysterious rings and their ancient nomad laws; the states of monks and evil devils, the country of wandering tribes administered by the descendants of Genghiz Khan and Kublai Khan, the Khans and Princes of the Junior lines: that is Tien Shan.

 

The land of mysterious doctors, prophets, sorcerers, fortune-tellers and witches; the land which has not forgotten the thoughts of the long deceased great potentates of Asia and of half of Europe: that is Tien Shan.

 

The land of nude mountains, of plains burned by the sun and killed by the cold; the land of boiling hot springs and of mountain passes inhabited by demons; of sacred lakes swarming with fish; of wolves, rare species of deer and mountain goats, marmots in millions, wild horses, wild donkeys and wild camels that have never known the bridle, ferocious dogs and rapacious birds of prey which devour the dead bodies cast out on the plains by the people: that is Tien Shan.

 

Tien Shan, the land whose disappearing primitive people gaze upon the bones of their forefathers whitening in the sands and dust of their plains; where are dying out the people who formerly conquered China, Thailand, Northern India and Russia.

 

 

Khan Tegri - master of the Tien Shan range:

 

 

 

Yes. be patient folks, we will get there. I am setting the background info and history.

 

Remember, this is the early Bronze Age . This is way before even the Persians arose.  In this era, it comes to a close, an abrupt holt, the 'record' stops. Then after a long gap of nothing much -  at a similar time to the 'Bronze Age Collapse'  

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Late_Bronze_Age_collapse     

 

the next we hear of things from this area ( actually 'this areas'  western extremity ... perhaps with the exception of Anatolia ) is in the beginning of history when the Assyrians first recorded the emergence of 'Parsa'  (Persians)  emerging down from the Zargos  Mountains and joining in with other Iranian tribes to the east of Mesopotamia (eg Medes)  and on the Iranian Plateau to counter the constant raiding of the Assyians moving eastwards.  ( Later successes  and the 'takeover' by the Parsa formed the first Persian Empire, which then re-established the original network back to the east and in Central Asia all the way over  to the Oxus (Later ; 'Bactria' ) region.

 

 

So, between the end of the 'mythical period' of pre history ('Pishdadian Era' )  and the beginning of ancient history (the first Assyrian accounts ) there is a vast gap of info and missing years .   This is termed as 'the missing years' or 'the gap in the record' we dont really know what happened then .  

 

Anyway, this post was mainly going to address the nature of the landscape presented in these maps .  When I first started looking into this, I used google earth a lot to examine landform (more of this later ). The are looks remarkable hostile to human habitation  . No way.

 

But as you 'zoom in'  these little cracks (valleys) appear in the  vast icy expanse  . And when you get down into them !  WOW.  No wonder they where termed paradise !  And they look like just the descriptions in the ancient texts and stories .

 

overall view showing Pamirs conection to Tien Shan

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Good grazing land for horse and cattle as well;

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Nungali]

... more later - a truck just drove up trough my garden and parked outside the window !    WTF!

[welkin]

4 hours ago, Nungali said:

... more later - a truck just drove up trough my garden and parked outside the window !    WTF!

 

Did you get "the knock"? hope not..

[Nungali]

It was a friends mate, I forgot he was coming to pick up my old wood burning heater I am giving him.  It weighs a ton !

 

So. We have a forgotten , semi mythical 'Pishdadian Era' that has been equated with a newly found ancient civilisation; the old Oxus area/ Oxus civilisation / BMAC.

 

They seem to have held important centres along the  south Central Asian oasis route

 

 

- the green patches , near Gonur, the Murgab river delta, Gonur, the headwaters of the Oxus and its tributary valleys to the east going up into the Pamirs.

 

 

Gonur-Tepe's southern complex

 

 

 

Merv / Margiana

 

Looking at the old Avestan texts, they talk about a series of lands , that they at least knew about. Archaeology shows they where connected, at least by trade.  Most info comes from the Vendidad :

 

(  ttps://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vendidad )

 

I will try to make it painless   and present a tabulated summary ... the scripture goes on and on and is very repetitive

 

 

AVESTAN NAME.	OLD PERSIAN.	GREEK	MODERN NAME.
Sughdha (2)	Suguda	Sogdianh	Soghd (Samarkand)
Mouru (3)	Margu	Margianh	Marv
Bakhdhi (4)	Bâkhtri	Baktra	Balkh
Haroyu (6)	Haraiva	`Areia	Harê(rud)
Vehrkana (9)	Varkâna	'Urkania	Gurgân, Jorgân
Harahvaiti (10)	Harauvati	`Aracwsia	Av-rokhaj, Arghand-(âb)
Haetumant (11)		`EtumandoV	Helmend
Ragha (12)	Ragâ	'Ragai	Raî
Hapta hindu (15)	Hindava	`Indoi	Hind (Punjab)

 

Vaekereta (7)	Kâpûl	Kabul
Urva (8)	Mêshan	Mesene
Varena (14)	Patashkhvârgar or Dailam	Tabaristân or Gîlân
Rangha (16)	Arvastâni Rûm	Eastern Mesopotamia           Note that number 1 is missing . I will quote that section specifically

[Nungali]

		Vendid , faragad 1.   Ahura Mazda spake unto Spitama  Zarathushtra, saying: I have made every land dear (to its people), even though it had no charms whatever in it: had I not made every land dear (to its people), even though it had no charms whatever in it, then the whole living world would have invaded the Airyana Vaeja3.
		2,The first of the good lands and countries which I, Ahura Mazda, created, was the Airyana Vaeja5, by the Vanguhi Daitya
		Looking at the commentaries ;   Airyanem Vaeja, Iran-Vej, is the holy land of Zoroastrianism: Zarathushtra was born and founded his religion there (Bund. 20.32; 32.3): the first animal couple appeared there (Bund. 14.4; Zadspram, 9.8). From its name, 'the Iranian seed,' it seems to have been considered as the original seat of the Iranian race. It has been generally supposed to belong to Eastern Iran, like the provinces which are enumerated after it, chiefly on account of the name of its river, the Vanguhi Daitya, which was in the Sassanian times (as Veh) the name of the Oxus.   http://www.avesta.org/vendidad/vd1sbe.htm   This some contention about the number of lands , different aged texts  list different numbers, but they all have info on Airyanum Vaeja More descriptions of Airyanum Vaeja ;   Verses 10.13-14 of the Meher Yasht state that the Aryan land had many mountains, valleys, and pastures (pouru vastraongho) that supported cattle (gave). It was rich in waters (afento), deep lakes (jafra varayo) and wide rivers. The land, while mountainous had alpine meadows and fertile, well-watered vales. The Mehr Yasht at 10.13 and 14 states that the Aryan abode (airyo-shayanem) was "where the high mountains (garayo berezanto), rich in pastures and waters, yield plenty to the cattle".   Reading the Zamyad Yasht at (19.1) we are given the impression that the Hara was one of two concentric rings of mountains, or at least ones that "lie all around" .   , Zoroastrian texts describe Airyana Vaeja as being mountainous with fertile meadows and valleys. In addition, the opening words of the Avestan Vendidad's chapter listing the sixteen nations, states that if God had not made other countries beautiful in some manner, all the world would have swarmed into Airyana Vaeja on account of its great beauty and - as mentioned elsewhere in the Avesta - because of its wise king and good government, law and order, noble people and serenity. Airyana Vaeja was a paradise on earth - a land of peace and serenity, the best place to live and raise a family.   [ Ths seems , either a new or a vestige  form of governance know as wise kingship - it utilised a different form of rule and power and seemed more based on liberty than oppression. It seems to have ruled their civilisation at times, but then at other times they or the leaders 'fell from grace' and failed.  Although hard to find evidence of a personal religion (ie. Zoroastrianism ) of Cyrus the Great, his form of  Good Kingship was evident, and seems part of the old tradition ; eg.  he allowed and helped build people's temples to other  God's, he advocated multi culturalism, their societies where gender balanced with many  wise rulers,  famous warriors and  a navy admiral being women (Artemisia)   http://www.persepolis.nu/queens.htm    he released the Jews from captivity and sent them home in a procession with goods and treasure and helped them re build their temple, etc .  ]

Edited May 21, 2019 by Nungali

[welkin]

9 minutes ago, Nungali said:

		Verses 10.13-14 of the Meher Yasht state that the Aryan land had many mountains, valleys, and pastures (pouru vastraongho) that supported cattle (gave). It was rich in waters (afento), deep lakes (jafra varayo) and wide rivers. The land, while mountainous had alpine meadows and fertile, well-watered vales. The Mehr Yasht at 10.13 and 14 states that the Aryan abode (airyo-shayanem) was "where the high mountains (garayo berezanto), rich in pastures and waters, yield plenty to the cattle".     , Zoroastrian texts describe Airyana Vaeja as being mountainous with fertile meadows and valleys. In addition, the opening words of the Avestan Vendidad's chapter listing the sixteen nations, states that if God had not made other countries beautiful in some manner, all the world would have swarmed into Airyana Vaeja on account of its great beauty and - as mentioned elsewhere in the Avesta - because of its wise king and good government, law and order, noble people and serenity. Airyana Vaeja was a paradise on earth - a land of peace and serenity, the best place to live and raise a family.

 

Sounds like America

 

Still following you. You're really setting us up for fireworks on Shambhala.

[Nungali]

( having difficulty posting -  post boxes keep doing weird things,  and new ones  will not except  text ???   so I have to keep breaking things up, going off site, re opening etc  )

 

So, as well as having beautiful nature and resources, a wise king and good governance  - a good place to live - The heavenly nature of Airyana Vaeja during the Jamshidi era  reached mythic proportions in Yasht 19.33, the Zamyad Yasht. Then, the weather was neither cold nor hot.  But things where soon to change .

 

It appears  climate change was the  cause .  In the Avestas it warns about a great cold coming, snow being deep on the ground. winter lasting for a very long period and animal and human population being drastically reduced  ( 'not a hoof or footprint on the snow ) . The people are instructed to create safe havens, a new type of farm  setup with housing for animals and people, close together and/or underground to protect against the long harsh winters that are coming .

 

Let's jump to 'Shangri - la'    for a bit .

 

Tibetan Buddhism's book of Kala-Chakra, the Time-Cycle, and Tibetan Buddhism's predecessor religion, Bon, built on and popularized this concept of a lost and hidden paradise on earth, now known to the world as Shangri-La.

[The founding of the Bon religion is ascribed to Tonpa Shenrab Miwoche who was born - by some estimates 18,000 years ago - in the land of Tagzig Olmo Lung Ring. Tagzig, is believed to be a form of the name Tajik. (The name Shenrab sounds Iranian as well.) The doctrine taught by Tonpa Shenrab was spread by his disciples and their student-translators to adjacent countries such as Zhang-Zhung (also Zhangzhung, Shang Shung or Xang Xung - a land north of the Himalayas, which contained Mount Kailash in today's Western Tibet), India (northern Indus valley), Kashmir, China and eventually Greater Tibet. Tonpa Shenrab is reputed to have visited present-day western Tibet once. On that visit he found the people unprepared to receive the entire body of his teachings, but he prophesied that his teachings would flourish in Tibet in the coming ages. The students of his disciples continued his mission and Tibetan Bon scriptures were translated from texts in the language of Zhang-Zhung.

[Bon claims to have spread south to the Indian subcontinent and to have influenced the development of Vedic Hinduism. Perhaps pre-Tibetan Bon was a form of the primordial religion before Zoroastrianism and Vedic Hinduism. Buddhism in turn evolved out of Vedic Hinduism (c. 400 BCE). Completing a full circle, today's Bon is so heavily influenced by Buddhism that it sounds like a Buddhist sect. Perhaps some scholars may take it upon themselves to try and isolate the precepts of the pre-Buddhism Bon.

 

In regard to the clinate change of this era; pollen and tree ring analysis indicates the Chang Tang plateau in Northern Tibet had a far more liveable environment than it has today - one that supported a primordial civilization - until the climate become colder and drier starting around 1500 BCE, a climate change that caused the population to migrate out of the northern plateau. The ancient and  later Zoroastrian link to western Tibet is further exemplified by the common tradition of exposing the dead to birds.

 

At the centre of the land of Tagzig (called Shambhala in the Kalachakra) was Olmo Lungring which had at its centre, Yungdrung Gutsek, a four-sided mountain similar to Mount Meru / Sumeru (see above). The mountain is surrounded by temples, cities and parks. To the mountain's south is the Barpo Sogye palace, where Tonpa Shenrab was born. The complex of palaces, rivers and parks with Mount Yungdrung Gutseg in the centre constitutes the inner region (Nang-gling) of Olmo Lungring. The intermediate region (Bar-gling) consists of twelve cities, four of which lie in the four cardinal directions. The third region includes the outer land (mTha'-gling). These three regions are encircled by snow-capped mountains and an ocean.

 

[Nungali]

According to the Buddhist Kalachakra, Shambhala, presently hidden to the rest of the world, is a paradise of peace, tranquility, honesty and wisdom. It is home of the primordial and highest spiritual teachings, a tantra of the cycle of time now hidden from us but one that will eventually save the world from evil. Before it adopted Buddhism, the people were followers of the Mlechha, a Yavana or western, religion, some of whom worshiped the sun. Emulating the time periods in Zoroastrian eschatology which uses a cycle of time, as well as emulating the Zoroastrian concept of a final struggle between good against evil.

 

All these concepts passed into western religions, including a personalised coming 'saviour' o ' Saoshyant' , "one who brings benefit", and  is a  saviour figure who bring about Frashokereti, the final renovation of the world in which evil is finally destroyed.  

 

So, the proposal is that since Shambhala, the land surrounding Mount Meru, is identified as the Vedic Arya Varta, and since the Vedic Arya Varta in turn corresponds to the Avestan Airyana Vaeja (which contains Mount Hara), that the land surrounding Shambhala, Mount Meru and Airyana Vaeja are intimately linked if not the same land. If theassociation is correct, what all four traditions, Zoroastrian, Hindu, Bon and Buddhist, have preserved, is the topography of ancient Airyana Vaeja - a land of fertile valleys and alpine meadows ringed by high snow-capped high mountains.

 

These observations point to a location for Airyana Vaeja, the ancient Aryan homeland, in the general vicinity of Tajikistan, southern Uzbekistan, northern Afghanistan, and south-western Turkmenistan - the approximate area in the map below.

More specifically, the observations point to the strong candidacy of the Pamir-Badakhshan region (the areas neighbouring Balkh to the east and north: the upper Amu Darya basin and the Wakhan Valley of eastern Tajikistan and northern Afghanistan), the Hindu Kush to its eastern extremity south of Balkh and bordering the Murgab and Harirud valleys, the Yagnobi , Zerafshan and Fergana valleys, as well as the Alai mountain environs in Western Kyrgyzstan.

 

The full extent of the Badakhshan  region extends beyond the borders of Tajikistan to the east, south and south-west. To the east, Badakhshan extends into land that is today part of China. To the south and south-west, Badakhshan extends into modern-day Afghanistan .

China's acquisition of eastern Badakhshan came about through centuries of westward expansion beyond ancient Chin and the borders of Chin marked by the Great Wall of China. The division of Badakhshan between Tajikistan and Afghanistan, was a result of the Anglo-Russian agreement of 1873 that created a buffer strip between the Russian and Britis

The Pamir-Badakhshan region is home to very old Zoroastrian historical sites and most of the Zoroastrian historical sites we have identified so far in Tajikistan, are in the Badakhshan-Pamir region. There are also enigmatic hand and feet symbols carved into the rock of the Pamir mountains. The Pamiri consider the rocks holy, saying that holy men have stepped on these rocks in the remote past.

A strong candidate for the location of Airyana Vaeja is the general area around Tajikistan and more specifically, the Pamir-Badakhshan region.historic Greater Badakhshan divided between Tajikistan, Afghanistan, and China. The border between Tajikistan and Afghanistan is the Panj river where it forms the Wakhan valley. The border between Tajikistan and China is the Sarykol Range, one of the Kunlun mountain ranges.  The Pamiri-Badakhshani people claim to be an Iranian group related to, but distinct from, the Tajiks and other Afghans. They speak dialects of the Pamiri language, an eastern Iranian language indigenous to the region.

 

Map of the Pamir-Badakhshan region in Tajikistan, Eastern China and N. E. Afghanistan
By Marcus Hauser. (Click for a larger map)

 

Hmmmmmm .....

'Shamballa'  is  supposed to be in  a range of internal mountains enclosed by mountain ranges at all four directions and surrounded by a circular river .  here is another view of the above area ;

 

It seems a pretty good match .

 

Then I encountered this guy  ... what an adventurer !

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited May 21, 2019 by Nungali

[Nungali]

He goes into the area of the maps above. Its a multi series that follows the path of Alexander the Great into this area. Supposedly Alexander travelled through this area and established numerous cities ...  'established' .... more like conquered what was there and had been there for a long time.

 

In any case. one of those series in Badakhsan/ Pamir area, he goes through how this area matches with  the ancient descriptions, but he cant find the river that supposedly encircles the central area.  Well, he can find the river, but it doesnt encircle like tge descriptions said. So he assumes he is in the wrong place or its all myth. But then he meets a a local who tells him that the river used to do that but there was a massive landslide that blocked the rivers path and caused a diversion into another valley system a long time ago. It used to travel in the path described .

 

Anyway, thats it.    Make of it what you will .   One day, if the wars and fundamentalist maniacs in that region calm down, we might get  better access and some very interesting archaeology might turn up .  It is possible, some of the people in the area ( Turkmenistan, Uzbekistan ) say they are sick of it, its going no where, no resolve. They blame Islam and say its not even their religion and some talk of going back to Zoroastrianism and claiming their anceint heritage . I suppose they want 'good governance '

 

 

Tajikistan

 

 

 

 

Edited May 21, 2019 by Nungali