dwai Posted May 22, 2019 Excellent article that covers the relation between Vedic and Tantric concepts of Light and Energy (Jyoti and Shakti) -- https://www.vedanet.com/vedic-light-and-tantric-energy-yogas-2/ To quote an excerpt of the wonderful article -- Quote A number of writers and teachers, particularly in Western academia, have tried to divide the two great traditions of India of Veda and Tantra as different or even contrary. Some Yoga teachers have uncritically taken up this view as well. They see the Vedic tradition as Aryan and patriarchal and the Tantric tradition as non-Aryan and matriarchal. They identify the Vedic tradition with invading Aryans and the Tantric tradition with indigenous Dravidians. They see the Tantric as worshipping the Mother Goddess and the Vedic as rejecting her. They imply that Vedic and Tantric ideas and practices are very different. Now that the Aryan Invasion theory is severely in question, and the Sarasvati River of Vedic fame, discovered as the main homeland of civilization in ancient India, we should reexamine these views. In my own more than thirty years of studying Vedic and Tantric texts in the original Sanskrit, I have also found remarkable connections between the two traditions. Vedic and Tantric traditions are one, though with different orientations. The Vedic tradition is an earlier form of the Tantric, which itself is a later development of Vedic practices. Tantric teachings abound in the use of Vedic mantras and the mysticism of the Sanskrit alphabet. They use Vedic fire altars and practices and honor Vedic deities at an inner level. Inner Tantric Yoga reflects the four main Vedic deities of Agni, Soma, Vayu and Surya (the forces of fire, moon, wind and sun). 3 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
voidisyinyang Posted May 23, 2019 (edited) The problem with Frawley's western projection is he doesn't understand the different structural principles defining the "three gunas" - https://www.vedanet.com/vedic-yoga-and-the-three-gunas/ Quote the potential condition of the Natural Principle, the Gunas are in a state of equality (Samyavastha), that is, they are not affecting one another. But, as Mulaprakriti is essentially movement, it is said that even when in this state of equality the Gunas are yet continually changing into themselves (Sarupaparinama). This inherent subtle movement is the nature of the Guna itself, and exists without effecting any objective result. Owing to the ripening of Adrishta or Karma, creation takes place by the disturbance of this equality of the Gunas (Gunakshobha), which then commence to oscillate and act upon one another. It is this initial creative motion which is known in the Tantra as Cosmic Sound (Parashabda). https://www.sacred-texts.com/tantra/sas/index.htm So what makes this Cosmic Sound different than the Vedic analysis is the mathematical cosmology on which is based! The Vedic cosmology relies on "divide and average" math that tries to "contain" infinity using geometry. The original "three gunas" is based on pure number as noncommutative phase harmonics - the complementary opposite ratios that are truly "non-dual" and yet eternal motion. So as I've explained - the "three gunas" are the same as Daoist harmonics with the Perfect Fifth or 3/2 as yang and the Perfect Fourth as yin or 4/3 and the Sattva as the octave or 1/2. So this appears as very simplistic since a Westerner does not understand the secret of the music harmonics that defined the three gunas. Westerners are brainwashed by logarithmic symmetric math, from the "divide and average" earlier Vedic math. https://pdfs.semanticscholar.org/9e0f/2de70dc7e3bdf6660a1145134cf4f5e36466.pdf So that pdf tries to do a "three gunas" analysis of Indian music but uses the Western logarithmic math. So that is just an example of what I'm talking about. The three gunas is not based on "divide and average" math. Edited May 23, 2019 by voidisyinyang 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
dwai Posted May 23, 2019 15 hours ago, voidisyinyang said: The problem with Frawley's western projection is he doesn't understand the different structural principles defining the "three gunas" - https://www.vedanet.com/vedic-yoga-and-the-three-gunas/ https://www.sacred-texts.com/tantra/sas/index.htm So what makes this Cosmic Sound different than the Vedic analysis is the mathematical cosmology on which is based! The Vedic cosmology relies on "divide and average" math that tries to "contain" infinity using geometry. The original "three gunas" is based on pure number as noncommutative phase harmonics - the complementary opposite ratios that are truly "non-dual" and yet eternal motion. So as I've explained - the "three gunas" are the same as Daoist harmonics with the Perfect Fifth or 3/2 as yang and the Perfect Fourth as yin or 4/3 and the Sattva as the octave or 1/2. So this appears as very simplistic since a Westerner does not understand the secret of the music harmonics that defined the three gunas. Westerners are brainwashed by logarithmic symmetric math, from the "divide and average" earlier Vedic math. https://pdfs.semanticscholar.org/9e0f/2de70dc7e3bdf6660a1145134cf4f5e36466.pdf So that pdf tries to do a "three gunas" analysis of Indian music but uses the Western logarithmic math. So that is just an example of what I'm talking about. The three gunas is not based on "divide and average" math. Drew, I think Dr. Frawley understands gunas just fine. But you are entitled to your opinion 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Taoist Texts Posted May 23, 2019 On 5/22/2019 at 10:36 PM, dwai said: Inner Tantric Yoga reflects the four main Vedic deities of Agni, Soma, Vayu and Surya (the forces of fire, moon, wind and sun). this is an ignorant statement Quote List of Rigvedic deities by a number of dedicated hymns, after Griffith (1888). Some dedications are to paired deities, such as Indra-Agni, Mitra-Varuna, Soma-Rudra, here counted double. Vishvadevas (all gods together) have been invoked 70 times. Indra 289 Agni (Fire) 218 Soma 123 (most of them in the Soma Mandala) Ishwara (Supreme god) 118 The Asvins 56 Varuna (Sea) 46 [1] the Maruts 38 Mitra 28[1] Ushas 21 Vayu (Wind) 12 Savitr 11 the Rbhus 11 Pushan 10 the Apris 9 Brhaspati 8 Surya (Sun) 8 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
dwai Posted May 23, 2019 42 minutes ago, Taoist Texts said: this is an ignorant statement You are entitled to your opinion, but please don't take things out of context and nitpick. Feel free to comment about the article itself...I'll be more than happy to read your views on it. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
voidisyinyang Posted May 30, 2019 On 5/23/2019 at 2:00 PM, dwai said: Drew, I think Dr. Frawley understands gunas just fine. But you are entitled to your opinion To quote a graduate instructor's comment on my paper: "The Incorrect Supply and Demand Model" for the class "environmental economics" Quote "I still think economists are smarter than you think they are." Such tautological comments unwilling to engage with the content are fine rhetorical positions, but nothing more. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
