Neiye - Section 5 - The One

[dawei]

Section 5: The One
 

Eno

 

If the form of the heart
acquires excessive knowledge, life is lost.
Unifying with things and able to transform them –
this is called spirit-like.
Unifying with affairs and able to adapt –
this is called wisdom.
To transform without altering one’s qi,
and adapt without altering one’s wisdom –

 

only a junzi who grips the One can do this.
Gripping the One without fail,
he is able to be ruler to the world of things.

The junzi manipulates things; he is not manipulated by things.
He grasps the principle of the One,
a regulated heart at his center,
regulated words come forth from his mouth,
he engages others in regulated affairs,
and thus the world is regulated.
In one phrase he grasps it and the world submits;
in one phrase he sets it and the world obeys –
this is called impartiality.

 

Linnell:

 

凡 心 之 形 Always : if the form of the heart/mind
過 知 失 生 Has too much understanding, life is lost.
一 物 能 化 Knowing the Oneness with creatures can transform them,
謂 之 神 We call this being spirit-like
一 事 能 變 Knowing the Oneness with your duties can change them,
謂 之 智 We call this being wise.
化 不 易 氣 To transform creatures, without altering your Qi;
變 不 易 智 To change duties, without altering your wisdom;

 

惟 執 一 之 君 子 Only a noble man who maintains Oneness
能 為 此 乎 Can do this!
執 一 不 失 When he maintains Oneness and does not lose it,
能 君 萬 物 He can rule the ten thousand creatures.
君 子 使 物 A noble man uses creatures,
不 為 物 使 He does not allow creatures to use him.
得 一 之 理 When he attains the regulation of Oneness :
治 心 在 於 中 A regulated heart/mind resides in his center,
治 言 出 於 口 Regulated speech comes from his mouth,
治 事 加 於 人 Regulated duties are assigned to people.
然 則 天 下 治 矣 Then, the world is regulated!
一 言 得 而 天 下 服 One word is attained by him, and the world obeys him;
一 言 定 而 天 下 聽 One word settles him, and the world listens to him.
公 之 謂 也 We call him fair and just!

Roth

 

-- Section 8 --
12. Whenever the forms of the mind have excessive knowledge,
13. You loose your vitality.
-- Section 9 --
1. Those who can transform even a single thing, call them "numinous";
2. Those who can alter even a single situation, call them "wise."
3. But to transfrom without expending vital energy; to alter without expending wisdom:
4. Only exemplary persons who hold fast to the One are able to do this.
5. Hold fast to the One; do not loose it,
6. And you will be able to master the myriad things.
7. Exemplary persons act upon things,
8. And are not acted upon by them,
9. Because they g rasp the guiding principle of the One.
-- Section 10 --
1. With a well-ordered mind within you,
2. Well-ordered words issue forth from your mouth,
3. And well-ordered tasks are imposed on others.
4. Then all under heaven will be well-ordered.
5. "When one word is grasped,
6. All under the heavens will submit.
7. When one word is fixed,
8. All under heavens will listen."
9. It is this [word "Way"] to which the saying refers.

Shazi Daoren

 

-- Section 8 --
All forms of the Heart,
crossing over to knowledge lose life.
-- Section 9 --
Those able to transform One thing are called 'Spiritual';
those able to change One affair are called 'wise'.
To transform without expending Energy,
to change without expending wisdom,
by grasping the One only the Master is able to do this!
Grasp the One, do not loose it,
and you will be able to master the myriad things.
The Master acts upon things,
and is not acted upon by things.
Attain to the guiding principle of the One.
-- Section 10 --
Harness the Heart within your bosom,
control the words issuing forth from your mouth,
manage affairs in concert with others,
then it follows, the world will be governed.
"One word is attained, and the world submits"
So goes the saying.

Yueya

 

-— Section 8 -—
Considering the forms of the heart-mind,
Excessive knowing dissipates vitality.
-- Section 9 --
Those who can transform even a single being—
We call them “numinous.”
Those who can alter even a single situation —
We call them “wise.”
To transform without expending qi,
To alter without expending wisdom,
Only extraordinary persons who adhere to the One can do this.
Adhere to the One without losing it
And you will be able to master the myriad types of beings.
Extraordinary persons act upon beings,
But are not acted upon by them.
This is the principle of attaining the One.
-- Section 10 --
With a well-ordered heart-mind within you.
Well-ordered words issue from your mouth.
And well-ordered tasks are presented to others.
Then all under the heavens will be well-ordered.
When the whole meaning is realized,
Then all under the heavens will be covered.
When the whole meaning is stabilized,
Then all under the heavens will be heard.
This is that to which we are referring.
 

Reid:

 

103 凡心之形,
Invariably, mental formulations {14}
104 過知失生。
Will supersede knowledge even at the expense of one’s life.
105 一物能化, 謂之神;
With Oneness, things can be transformed. We call this spirit.
106 一事能變, 謂之智。
With Oneness, situations can be changed. We call this wisdom.
107 化不易氣,
Transforming (things) without altering breath,
108 變不易智,
Changing (situations) without altering wisdom:
109 惟執一之君子能為此乎。
Only the junzi who maintains Oneness can do this.
110 執一不失,
Holding Oneness and not losing it
111 能君萬物。
They can preside over the myriad things.
112 君子使物,

The junzi then conducts things,
113 不為物使,
And is not conducted by things,
114 得一之理。
(Having) attained the principle of Oneness. {15}
115 治心在於中,
When the orderliness of the heart-mind reaches to the very center,
116 治言出於口,
Orderly words leave the mouth
117 治事加於人,
And orderly affairs increase amongst the people.
118 然則天下治矣。
As such, all under Heaven will be orderly!
119 一言得而天下服,
When one word is grasped, all under heaven fits together;
120 一言定而天下聽,
When one word settles (in the heart), all under Heaven cooperates.
121 公之謂也。
This is the meaning of ‘serving the greater good.’ {16}

 

{14} See footnote for line 23 of the Nei Ye
{15} See the excerpt from Guigu Zi, in the Introduction, for further elucidation of lines 91-114
{16} NY lines 105-121 are compared above with XSX, lines 43-64. As noted in my commentary on these lines in XSX,
“one word” refers to Dao. It may also imply minimizing instructions on Confucian virtues, and instead simply following
Dao.
 

[Taoist Texts]

15 hours ago, dawei said:

凡 心 之 形 Always : if the form of the heart/mind

everybody made the same mistake here. It is not the 'form of the heart' its the body and its heart. When the heart is filled with excessive knowledge then the life of the body is lost.

[dawei]

On 6/3/2019 at 9:30 AM, Taoist Texts said:

When the heart is filled with excessive knowledge then the life of the body is lost.

 

quote passages ?

[Taoist Texts]

yes, my bad, sorry. Lines 12 and 13(Roth) are actually continuation of  previous section 4. The whole passage is

 

精 也 者 This essence [Jing] –
氣 之 精 者 也 Is essence [Jing] which produces qi

氣 道 乃 生  the qi ducts in the human body originate in jing
生 乃 思  once originating this qi turns into thinking
思 乃 知 thinking becomes knowledge
知 乃 止 矣  knowledge reaches the limit of what can be known by a regular heart

凡 心 之 形  so when the heart in the body
過 知 失 生 goes beyond that limit then life (qi producing ducts from second line) is lost

[Limahong]

14 hours ago, Taoist Texts said:

yes, my bad, sorry. Lines 12 and 13(Roth) are actually continuation of  previous section 4.

 

Hi Taoist Texts,

 

Apparently you have made an amendment linked to this...

 

On 6/3/2019 at 9:30 PM, Taoist Texts said:

everybody made the same mistake here. It is not the 'form of the heart' its the body and its heart. When the heart is filled with excessive knowledge then the life of the body is lost.

 

In the same corrective frame of mind ~ do you think you need to amend your post of '6/3/2019 at 9:30 PM'?

 

If so ~ how will you have it worded alternatively?

 

- Anand

 

[dawei]

On 6/3/2019 at 9:30 AM, Taoist Texts said:

everybody made the same mistake here. It is not the 'form of the heart' its the body and its heart. When the heart is filled with excessive knowledge then the life of the body is lost.

 

凡 心 之 形

 

Here you say "its the body and its heart"

 

The 'and' is bothersome to me.  I'd expect nothing between them [心 形, or as we see in 鬼 神]  or 而 as in this line:

 

德 成 而 智 出 When De develops, and wisdom* arises,

 

The use of 之 is most often as 'of' but also: It, that, them, which

 

On 6/9/2019 at 3:50 AM, Taoist Texts said:

yes, my bad, sorry. Lines 12 and 13(Roth) are actually continuation of  previous section 4. The whole passage is

 

精 也 者 This essence [Jing] –
氣 之 精 者 也 Is essence [Jing] which produces qi

氣 道 乃 生  the qi ducts in the human body originate in jing
生 乃 思  once originating this qi turns into thinking
思 乃 知 thinking becomes knowledge
知 乃 止 矣  knowledge reaches the limit of what can be known by a regular heart

凡 心 之 形  so when the heart in the body
過 知 失 生 goes beyond that limit then life (qi producing ducts from second line) is lost

 

But here, "the heart in the body".  this sounds more like just the heart in the end.

 

Also your line: 氣 Z 精 者 也 Is essence [Jing] which produces qi

 

This seems backwards. 

 

If one understands 之 as 'of' then it is read backwards:  

Qi 之 Jing is :  Jing [essence] of Qi

 

similar: 凡 物 之 精 Always : the essence of creatures –

 

When read as it, them, that... then it is read forwards:

Qi 之 Jing: Qi, its Jing

 

similar: 謂 之 聖 人 We call them sages

 

Would then all of these be changed to "and" instead of "of" ?

凡 心 之 形 Always : the form of the heart/mind is
彼 心 之 情 The nature of that heart/mind
彼 心 之 心 In that heart/mind of the heart/mind :
心 之 中 又 有 心 焉 The center of the heart/mind also has a heart/mind!  

 

[Taoist Texts]

2 hours ago, dawei said:

Here you say "its the body and its heart"

oh i dont insist on 'and'. 'the heart of the body', 'body's heart', 'the heart in the body'...thats what i meant

[Taoist Texts]

2 hours ago, dawei said:

Also your line: 氣 Z 精 者 也 Is essence [Jing] which produces qi

 

This seems backwards. 

 

If one understands 之 as 'of' then it is read backwards:  

Qi 之 Jing is :  Jing [essence] of Qi

 

similar: 凡 物 之 精 Always : the essence of creatures –

the thing is, 'of' does not expressly show the causal relationship. 'gasoline of the oil' or 'oil of the gasoline '  are both legit even without knowing which is produced from which.

 

2 hours ago, dawei said:

 

When read as it, them, that... then it is read forwards:

Qi 之 Jing: Qi, its Jing

 

similar: 謂 之 聖 人 We call them sages

 

Would then all of these be changed to "and" instead of "of" ?

彼 心 之 情 The nature of that heart/mind
彼 心 之 心 In that heart/mind of the heart/mind :
心 之 中 又 有 心 焉 The center of the heart/mind also has a heart/mind!  

these are all legit but

 

凡 心 之 形 Always : the form of the heart/mind is

 

is not because from this and other texts we know that there heart does not have a form, such thing is not glossed anywhere else in the whole textual corpus

Edited June 13, 2019 by Taoist Texts

[Bindi]

8 minutes ago, Taoist Texts said:

 

 

I hope you add a bit more to your response  

[Taoist Texts]

2 hours ago, Bindi said:

 

I hope you add a bit more to your response  

Sure. Why dont i go ahead and summarise what we have learned so far

 

1. There is a life giving Jing, the cosmic vitality 2. This Jing generates the national qi which is incomprehensible by intellect 3. But  a virtuous ruler can connect with this qi in order to retain power 4 Within the human body there is a self-sufficient heart, which is unbalanced by emotions but restores itself if the owner is free from desires and emotions

5. The human body is also filled with Dao which is apparent in good hearts 6. Dao is immanent and vital 7. It can be made apparent by calm

8. Humans are innately calm 9. A human who keeps his calm is a sage 10. Calm makes his body-mind strong turning it into a receptacle for Jing and for Qi 11. In the body there is a generative pattern of Jing>Qi>Vitality>Thought>Knowledge> Excessive Knowledge>Vitality Loss

12. All transformations are based on One. 13. In governance a wise ruler uses One in all affairs of the state 14. It allows him to affect things remaining unaffected himself 15.To that end the ruler rectifies his body and heart 16. …obtaining spiritual intelligence and even getting spirits to reside in his body 15. Losing the resident spirits will cause upheaval in the nation, while keeping them ensures good governance

[dawei]

9 hours ago, Taoist Texts said:

the thing is, 'of' does not expressly show the causal relationship. 'gasoline of the oil' or 'oil of the gasoline '  are both legit even without knowing which is produced from which.

 

these are all legit but

 

凡 心 之 形 Always : the form of the heart/mind is

 

is not because from this and other texts we know that there heart does not have a form, such thing is not glossed anywhere else in the whole textual corpus

 

I do get that... but neither is 心之中

 

But 心之 is found in many works. 

[Taoist Texts]

2 hours ago, dawei said:

but neither is 心之中

yes it is a rare expression but not a  hapax legomenon. it just means 'inside of the heart' or 'within the heart' or in centre of the heart

[Limahong]

11 hours ago, Taoist Texts said:

Sure. Why dont i go ahead and summarise what we have learned so far

 

Hi Taoist Texts,

 

Bindi asked...

 

13 hours ago, Bindi said:

I hope you add a bit more to your response...

 

Does ~ "Why dont i... summarise what we have learned so far" ~ pertains to adding "a bit more to your response"?

 

- Anand

 

Edited June 13, 2019 by Limahong
Enhance ...

[dawei]

16 hours ago, Taoist Texts said:

the thing is, 'of' does not expressly show the causal relationship. 'gasoline of the oil' or 'oil of the gasoline '  are both legit even without knowing which is produced from which.

 

these are all legit but

 

凡 心 之 形 Always : the form of the heart/mind is

 

is not because from this and other texts we know that there heart does not have a form, such thing is not glossed anywhere else in the whole textual corpus

 

I will admit, I really don't like 'form of the Xin'.  There is no intuitive sense to it.

 

形 - [Xing] - to appear / to look / form / shape

 

I found some other translations for the Xin Shu II by Guanzi where it runs more like:

The mind (Xin) and things (Xing)

The mind (Xin) leads to appearances (Xing)

 

Saying 'heart of the body' seems a bit redundant because there are ample places in ancient writings where only heart (xin) is used.  But it could be simply a very early use and word construction.  For example, LZ tends to just say: 

人之心

人心

民心

 

But 心之形 as the heart of the body tends to make it much more personal and individual [to practice].

 

13 hours ago, Taoist Texts said:

Sure. Why dont i go ahead and summarise what we have learned so far

 

11. In the body there is a generative pattern of Jing>Qi>Vitality>Thought>Knowledge> Excessive Knowledge>Vitality Loss

 

I think I'll disagree in that I don't find the Neiye saying this [yet]

[Taoist Texts]

6 hours ago, dawei said:

I found some other translations for the Xin Shu II by Guanzi where it runs more like:

The mind (Xin) and things (Xing)

The mind (Xin) leads to appearances (Xing)

wow i did not know that Xinshu was translated let alone several times. But still gotta chuckle at how the translators are struggling with an explicit concept of a 'bodily propriety as a function of heart' in Guanzi.

《心术下 - Xin Shu II》

金心在中不可匿。外见于形容，可知于颜色。善气迎人，亲如弟兄。恶气迎人，害于戈兵。不言之言，闻于雷鼓。金心之形，明于日月，察于父母。

The heart within can not be concealed. Just look at the exterior of the body and you can know (the heart) by the bodily complexion. (If the heart is good) then the (bodily) qi is kind toward others, familial like brothers. (If the heart is bad)  then the (bodily) qi is evil toward others, hurtful like a spear and a sword. Without any word spoken, (the heart) can be heard loud like thunder. The heart in the body shines like the sun and moon, is distinguishable like parents.

Edited June 14, 2019 by Taoist Texts

[dawei]

On 6/13/2019 at 2:51 AM, Taoist Texts said:

Sure. Why dont i go ahead and summarise what we have learned so far

 

15.To that end the ruler rectifies his body and heart   16. …obtaining spiritual intelligence and even getting spirits to reside in his body 15. Losing the resident spirits will cause upheaval in the nation, while keeping them ensures good governance

 

Can you comment more on the 'spirits' ? 

 

Do you see this tied to other ancient practices?

[Taoist Texts]

3 hours ago, dawei said:

 

Can you comment more on the 'spirits' ? 

Not much. The educated elite, the authors, all were if not refuting, but at least bypassing the authority of the spirits as being secondary, replacing it with such primeval forces as jing, qi, dao, de.  This reference to spirits inhabiting or acting through the body of a superior person is a rare and muted one.

 

3 hours ago, dawei said:

Do you see this tied to other ancient practices?

As to the rest of the ancient chinese culture spirit practices are common and well documented starting from Shang

http://www.lysistrataproject.org/Wu-FemaleShamansofAncientChina_MaxDashu.pdf

[vonkrankenhaus]

On 6/12/2019 at 9:26 PM, dawei said:

氣 Z 精 者 也

 

"Qi of Jing" is not so inaccurate.

 

Jing is the polarities and potentials that cause movement.

 

And Qi is that movement which is caused.

 

The "Qi of that Jing" means the Qi (movement) that results from that given polarity or set of potentials.

 

 

 

 

-VonKrankenhaus

[Apech]

1 hour ago, Taoist Texts said:

Not much. The educated elite, the authors, all were if not refuting, but at least bypassing the authority of the spirits as being secondary, replacing it with such primeval forces as jing, qi, dao, de.  This reference to spirits inhabiting or acting through the body of a superior person is a rare and muted one.

 

As to the rest of the ancient chinese culture spirit practices are common and well documented starting from Shang

http://www.lysistrataproject.org/Wu-FemaleShamansofAncientChina_MaxDashu.pdf

 

 

Dowloaded that thanks - but it will have to wait till I've waded my way through The Shaman and the Heresiarch.

[dawei]

1 hour ago, Taoist Texts said:

Not much. The educated elite, the authors, all were if not refuting, but at least bypassing the authority of the spirits as being secondary, replacing it with such primeval forces as jing, qi, dao, de.  This reference to spirits inhabiting or acting through the body of a superior person is a rare and muted one.

 

As to the rest of the ancient chinese culture spirit practices are common and well documented starting from Shang

http://www.lysistrataproject.org/Wu-FemaleShamansofAncientChina_MaxDashu.pdf

 

Ah.. that was my feeling and point... I had found that document in the past in my research of Shamanism... glad to see it again. 

 

Except... a spirit was associated to each organ acting through the body.  That is not muted.

 

[dawei]

48 minutes ago, vonkrankenhaus said:

 

"Qi of Jing" is not so inaccurate.

 

Jing is the polarities and potentials that cause movement.

 

And Qi is that movement which is caused.

 

The "Qi of that Jing" means the Qi (movement) that results from that given polarity or set of potentials.

 

 

 

 

-VonKrankenhaus

 

That should be read 'Jing of Qi'... or as some translate, 'Essence of Qi'.  Why the text seems to put Jing higher than Qi (along with other sections). 

[vonkrankenhaus]

1 hour ago, dawei said:

That should be read 'Jing of Qi'... or as some translate, 'Essence of Qi'.  Why the text seems to put Jing higher than Qi

 

Jing is the essence of Qi as Qi is the expression of Jing.

 

Polarity is the essence of Movement as Movement is the expression of Polarity.

 

Neither is "higher".

 

Jing is the potentials, the polarities that Qi moves in, or we could say "that movement happens within". In the body, in society, any kind.

 

Neither one happens without the other.

 

 

 

 

-VonKrankenhaus

[dawei]

1 hour ago, vonkrankenhaus said:

 

Jing is the essence of Qi as Qi is the expression of Jing.

 

Polarity is the essence of Movement as Movement is the expression of Polarity.

 

Neither is "higher".

 

Jing is the potentials, the polarities that Qi moves in, or we could say "that movement happens within". In the body, in society, any kind.

 

Neither one happens without the other.

 

 

 

 

-VonKrankenhaus

 

thank you for coming back to this... this is what I can agree with