Reconciling the idea of already being complete v.s. the work needed to become whole.

[Spotless]

The general addiction to willfulness and yet the pull to survival and competition within DNA / physical - and the ever radiant light essence that is ever spotless and unborn.

 

Practice is the work of loss and openness. Need - no need.

Need/grasping is loss - it is futures and pasts 

 

Like the Chinese finger prison - you are free in not pulling - the frequencies of willfulness - a sound of strain and tension.

 

It is possible to create in present - it is participation in happening - without the incredible dissipation of pasts and futures.

 

It is possible to create in no-memory   -   non-inertia  -  evolving spontaneity.

 

Tremendous effort is required - though it is not.

 

The gross physical contains extraordinary inertia - you have impulses of intense pack animal instincts, emit unheard sounds that spark rivalries and pecking order reactions - much that we contribute to culture is actually deep seated DNA based instinctive reactionary mechanics.

 

The gross physical bodies are impossibly intricate beautiful precious gifts - ladened with spitfire and cauldrons and the finest of raiment in light.

Yet we are turned away from vast resources and indulge and dissipate in identified politics and petty planes of morbidity.

 

over and over again man must bang the square peg into the round hole from ten thousand different perspectives  -  (practice lures us away and wanders us to the essence of light) - bang bang we pound again and now become arrogant and cynical or drown in an hypnosis of anesthetic love or self hate.

 

The Light beckons - and we pull less identified - the music 🎵 fills the light - we have begun practice in earnest.

 

The inclination is to improve the perspective - it is the correct mistake - a tendency to buy the bleach - “clear” ourselves, our channels, our chakras - as though we know what to do. We stay with our identity and wish to repair it on a false plane based in pasts and futures - where no repair can take place because it has never existed. It is simply cross tones of contortion.

 

Why does it take such tremendous effort to meditate for 18 hours - one hour ? the pull to turn away

Conceptually it is simple - and in fact it takes no effort - requires no effort.

The subtle bodies must percolate - and those teachings of the lower planes - our religious heritages - the trappings of fear vested in futures and pasts - must fall away.

 

Practice is not religion - no religion is practice.

 

Sometimes it seems the entire world should take magic mushrooms - to see feel know touch Presence in non- competition - intense grounded Beingness.

The Abiding Awakened State is much like this - the incredible vitality and for some energies that are far beyond consideration.

 

The critical mass point of the falling away of identified tensions - the shift point - Awakening - Abiding Awakening - Settled Awakening - Enlightening Awakening - is immediately available - but a critical mass of relinquish has had to accumulate and in Grace Light will shower forth suddenly and without mistake.

Edited June 23, 2019 by Spotless

[kyoji]

On June 22, 2019 at 5:44 AM, dwai said:

 

The assumption is that there is an "other" Self that you need to discover, apart from your "current self". The other Self is awesome, wonderful, peaceful, blissful and enlightened. The current self is ridiculous, pathetic, weak, always suffering, etc etc

 

There is no other self. There is only the Self. Liberation is not anywhere else but right here. Liberation is not in some other time, but right now. Right here, right now. That should be the mantra.

 

If someone smokes pot and realizes this (and it is possible to do so, but the realization doesn't last as the old habits of the acquired mind come back after the "high" is gone), they will eventually have to turn on to a more wholesome path. I personally know one who went down this path and eventually stopped all that and now leads a wholesome life, does selfless service etc. 

 

Eckhart Tolle is perfectly capable of pointing the seeker to that which he/she is seeking. I think what is being missed is that not every one is born with the same karma. Some have had enough "doing" in their previous lifetime(s), that just a little nudge is sufficient. Others have to work a bit hard to clean up that acquired mind. 

 

All the work is only for cleaning up the mind. That is all. Realization is already there. Clean up the mind, realize what you truly are.  Simple formula. And it works too...if one is sincere in their seeking, and has an empty cup.

 

Many people get irritated, some even incensed upon reading what I just wrote. But it doesn't change the fact that it is the truth...

 

 

 

It's not that I disagree with what you have to say.. but I just feel telling people this from the get go generally doesn't help get them anywhere closer to REALizing this as much as it does help them conceptualize it... do we really need to give modern people another concept they have no experiential basis for ? 

[dwai]

12 hours ago, kyoji said:

It's not that I disagree with what you have to say.. but I just feel telling people this from the get go generally doesn't help get them anywhere closer to REALizing this as much as it does help them conceptualize it... do we really need to give modern people another concept they have no experiential basis for ? 

The rub lies in the fact that this knowledge can be directly experienced. 

 

It is as real as our experiences are. If we can use our sensory perceptions and our mind and intellect, we can directly experience/realize this truth. 

 

Thats why this is called the “Direct Path”. Modem people have both the ability to use their minds/intellects and the able to use their sensory perceptions. Hence they are adequately equipped to learn this. 

 

Only two conditions are required - 

 

1. a strong desire to know 
2. An empty cup, as the saying goes 

[rideforever]

On 23/06/2019 at 7:32 PM, kyoji said:

It's not that I disagree with what you have to say.. but I just feel telling people this from the get go generally doesn't help get them anywhere closer to REALizing this as much as it does help them conceptualize it... do we really need to give modern people another concept they have no experiential basis for ? 

 

Yes and this is "the rub".   This is the flaw in the simply explanations some like to give.

For instance J Krishnamurti went around the world giving lectures to packed halls of sometimes extremely smart people, but at the end of his life he said "nobody understood me".   

And he's not the only one ... if you have been reading the lifestories of teachers closely, he's not the only one.

So ... how can it be so ?
Well one answer is "don't ask" just f-ing do it now.   And if the student gets in the right place, fine.

Another answer is .... that the connection between this world and that world, between individual and universal, is indeed extremely extremely subtle ... but it is there.   And the fact that humans wake up in this world is indeed because there is something that must be learnt here for us to then move on.

And these connections and evolutions and so on ... are very subtle indeed.
Once upon a time humans did know more about the connections ... but it seems to have died a death.

On this planet the light lasts only so long, then what is left is a memory.

Until another man comes, who ... for whatever f-ing reason, finds the light again and explodes into truth and ... then he leaves and once again a few leave with him, the there is only a memory, and then ... nothing.

 

Haven't you suffered enough ?
( Not yet, they say )

 

 

[mrpasserby]

On 6/22/2019 at 2:44 AM, dwai said:

 

The assumption is that there is an "other" Self that you need to discover, apart from your "current self". The other Self is awesome, wonderful, peaceful, blissful and enlightened. The current self is ridiculous, pathetic, weak, always suffering, etc etc

 

There is no other self. There is only the Self. Liberation is not anywhere else but right here. Liberation is not in some other time, but right now. Right here, right now. That should be the mantra.

 

If someone smokes pot and realizes this (and it is possible to do so, but the realization doesn't last as the old habits of the acquired mind come back after the "high" is gone), they will eventually have to turn on to a more wholesome path. I personally know one who went down this path and eventually stopped all that and now leads a wholesome life, does selfless service etc. 

 

Eckhart Tolle is perfectly capable of pointing the seeker to that which he/she is seeking. I think what is being missed is that not every one is born with the same karma. Some have had enough "doing" in their previous lifetime(s), that just a little nudge is sufficient. Others have to work a bit hard to clean up that acquired mind. 

 

All the work is only for cleaning up the mind. That is all. Realization is already there. Clean up the mind, realize what you truly are.  Simple formula. And it works too...if one is sincere in their seeking, and has an empty cup.

 

Many people get irritated, some even incensed upon reading what I just wrote. But it doesn't change the fact that it is the truth...

 

 

 

'But it doesn't change the fact that it is the truth...'

The above statements are true within this plane of existence.

My question: is this truth working for those who practice it? If it hinders them from attempting to reach for the next higher rung of the ladder, in their personal evolution?

Edited June 25, 2019 by mrpasserby
the usual

[mrpasserby]

On 6/3/2019 at 7:27 PM, kyoji said:

then why are the stories of so many great masters filled with years upon years of hardship and sacrifice in order to achieve great attainments? 

My posted words are not sufficient to address all of your questions, so I picked this one. 

In my experience: initiations (sometimes observed by others as external suffering) are part of a process of obtaining for are selves, the unseen world functionality that will serve us in the next higher faze of our evolution.

In my experience: 'the caterpillar becomes a butterfly' totally simple to the casual observer, and y a totally complex activity to the continually initiating creator who is *(suffering 'exerting himself', to pay the price) to learn the unseen world complexities of creation for himself. 

*siddhis:anima-minimization 

A definition: In Shaivism, siddhi are defined as "Extraordinary powers of the soul, developed through consistent meditation and often uncomfortable and grueling tapas, or awakened naturally through spiritual maturity and yogic sādhanā." 

https://www.google.com/search?ei=lHISXaTVOZSDtQb5oq2oBw&q=siddhis+1+anima+def&oq=siddhis+1+anima+def&gs_l=psy-ab.3..33i299j33i160.8949.55402..55969...0.0..0.264.2663.0j19j1......0....1j2..gws-wiz.......0i71j0j0i131j0i3j0i67j0i10i3j0i10j0i22i10i30j0i13j0i13i30j33i10j33i22i29i30.H8LQ2w9nSPw

Edited June 26, 2019 by mrpasserby

[dwai]

5 hours ago, mrpasserby said:

'But it doesn't change the fact that it is the truth...'

The above statements are true within this plane of existence.

My question: is this truth working for those who practice it? If it hinders them from attempting to reach for the next higher rung of the ladder, in their personal evolution?

There IS no higher rung of the ladder, imho. This knowledge and it’s realization is the ultimate knowledge. There is no further evolution. It results in “prapancha upashamam” or freedom from the bondage of the  Universe/samsara.

 

After realizing this truth, the sage is free to be as it pleases him/her.  

[silent thunder]

Am I already it, or must I find it, practice to manufacture and make it and then maintain it?

 

For me lately, neither.

 

I find i disconnect with even the notion that 'i am already it, or it must be sought' as this thought lends to the notion, that there is a thingness that is achieved, or that we recognize that we are.

 

Local awareness/presence is not something I own, or feel that i am, or that i can find, or achieve, or maintain, either through effort, or endeavor. 

 

Presence, awareness seem revelatory, not manufactured.  While I seem to be in it, i seem not to be of it.  Nor is there a separation.

 

When mind is quiet, presence is.  When mind is noisy, presence is.  Sleeping, waking, seeking, resting...

 

what is, is what is... presence/awareness is

what is there to do, achieve, alter, fix, cajole, encounter, reveal?

[kyoji]

On 10/3/2019 at 7:16 PM, ऋषि said:

The most simple way to look at this supposed "quandary" is to regard the "completion" as an "undoing" rather than a "doing". 

 

[kyoji]

3 hours ago, ऋषि said:

Whip, rope, person, and Ox -
all merge in No Thing.
This heaven is so vast,
no message can stain it.
How may a snowflake exist
in a raging fire?
Here are the footprints of
the Ancestors.

 

 

Too many steps have been taken
returning to the root and the source.
Better to have been blind and deaf
from the beginning!
Dwelling in one's true abode,
unconcerned with and without -
The river flows tranquilly on
and the flowers are red.

 

 

Barefooted and naked of breast,
I mingle with the people of the world.
My clothes are ragged and dust-laden,
and I am ever blissful.
I use no magic to extend my life;
Now, before me, the dead trees
become alive.

 

<3

[Jim D.]

I would be considered elderly at my age entitled to some discounts at various food chains. Something that has stuck in my head for a long time is this, the more I work on eliminating my character defects the easier it gets and the less discomfort I experience I am not operating from fear as much as I did when I was younger. I find spiritual readings to be repetitive now. There is just so many ways a thing can be said, and then it becomes repetitive. For example, I am a practitioner of martial arts and have been these last 20 years. It took me all this time to see the connection between them all. There is a common thread running through them. There is only so much you can do with two arms and two legs. The styles are different, and there is one that a person best relates too, but the outcome is pretty generic...defeat incoming force or redirect it. I don't feel complete (whatever that is) but I do recognize I have grown into age appropriate thinking and behavior. 

[Small Fur]

On June 3, 2019 at 7:27 PM, kyoji said:

This one particular subject has been stumping me lately, and I wanted to throw this out there in hopes that some of the more advanced wayfarers that frequent here can shed some light on the subject, and maybe clear up some confusion for myself and others who are curious about this... Anyways... here goes nothing!

 

 

How do we reconcile these ideas of already being complete and having nothing to do v.s. following a path and deciding to work willfully towards some kind of personal/spiritual development... and before I get the tongue in cheek Who is asking?  all is one typical new age sounding answer, can we please engage in a bit more of a thoughtful conversation on the matter? Of course all is one but my left hand isn't my right nor is my heart my head.

 

Is there really any denying that there are layers and levels to this all and that it does take a lot of hard work and eating of the bitter to achieve spiritual progress...  I'm sure there are levels in which there is nothing left to do and you just let the rest unfold. I am also fairly sure the people that are actually at this stage are few and far between. Not like the " doing the dishes is meditation enough folks" will have you believe.

 

It seemed to me for the longest time that the idea of already being whole,  was entirely a new age fallacy, until I was visiting golden elixir press and saw this quote from Liu Yiming..

 

“Golden Elixir is another name for one’s fundamental nature. There is no other Golden Elixir outside one's fundamental nature. All human beings have this Golden Elixir complete in themselves: it is entirely realized in everybody. It is neither more in a sage, nor less in an ordinary person. It is the seed of the Immortals and the Buddhas, the root of the worthies and the sages.”

 

The way this contrasts with statements  in other texts of man essentially being a crude animal before deciding to undergo transformations just baffles me really. If the Golden Elixir is already complete, then why are the stories of so many great masters filled with years upon years of hardship and sacrifice in order to achieve great attainments? 

 

Statements like that fail to mention that it isn`t an overnight process to lose your acquired nature in order to see / express / be what is fundamental...

 

Sorry if this post is a little all over the place, but the contrast of opinion on this subject leaves me feeling confused really..

 

 

 

 

 

Let us clarify a few concepts and refine them a bit since they are often spoken of inter-changably in spiritual and ancient texts. They are discussed this way because when we are looking at energetic forms of consciousness so close to Source that their conditions are still pure and unified, relatively uncleaved and unformed; variations in their qualities appear very subtle, similar and seemingly indistinct, however their transformations are fundamentally interrelated. Understanding these omnipresent subtlities in our system more discretely might help to bring some greater definition to the matter and thus a little more clarity. 

 

Keep in mind, that although we objectify it by making it discrete through definition, the actuality of it is simultaneously unformed, amorphous, transitional and also formed… think of it as states of matter- like vapor into water into ice, in continuous inter-transformation coexisting across different strata of dimension and time and it will be a more accurate understanding. 

 

So, taking your quote by Liu Yiming, let’s look at some key terms:

 

One’s Fundamental Nature (eg. we can call this a type of ‘essence’ for the matter of this discussion) is without form but also becomes all form (eg. the Golden Elixir, the human, existence itself). That is, this essence which moves through you and becomes you is also greater than just the form of ‘you’ or self: it is Consciousness itself. In its purity it is whole thus through you it remains unto itself whole, yet simultaneously in you it may not be complete in realization- both states of completion and incompletion comprise you at the same time (these are the energetics of the Tai Ji in daulisitc fragmentation as a part of Source in you).  Artifically we can describe this by saying you are existentially complete but mundanely incomplete and the way to rectify that is to make your mundane self the same (e.g. cultivate) as your essential self: that is to exist from the awareness of your fundamental nature in all ways and at all times. This fundamental nature may express itself in the mundane ways of human conditions but it is essentially a transcendent state. So what is meant by ‘nature’ here is not the way your wind blows this week, but what even allows you and that wind to exist at all: that is your Original Nature (Yuan Shen) or your Fundamental Nature.

 

The Golden Elixir is the pure substance of that Fundamental Nature and it is both formless and capable of becoming formed. It is essence that takes a quality of form in the purity of Fundamental Nature. While this essence of consciousness infuses all things- including our Being, when it is not yet realized in a person, it remains unsubstantive even though it is part of you. When the purity becomes substantive, it coalesces to form the Immortal Seed or Immortal Fetus.  In many ways, this substance is the same as your fundamental nature, so it is you, but again, it is also its own, just as a child is of you and your making, yet it is also its own. Because the Consciousness that is the substance of the Golden Elixir is pervasive and omnipresent, it is ‘neither more in one thing than the next’, as it is this Consciousness that gives rise to all things. But in the Enlightened Ones, this awareness is so great, it forms to create a sacred seed from which the Being can co-create in transcendence.  The Golden Seed from the purity of conscious essence is the opportunity for ‘rebirth’: a renewed, evolved existence of transcendent quality. This is not a metaphor, it is a reality experienced by a rare few, and it is sacred.

 

In short, just because something exists- even in you or as a part of you, doesn’t mean it is realized or understood in its truth. To give a more tangible and simple example, we could say that you may have a beautiful whole heart, but that you may not understand how to nourish it, care for it, live from it, so you do not realize all that it is physiologically, energetically and spiritually. When the understanding is complete, then we can begin to work with it in ourselves (ie. advanced cultivation). We are complete in essence, but most are obscured from that realization. When that realization is great enough- not just in concept, but through the whole of experience in profundity, then that depth of tunderstanding starts to become you, and it will change you. That change manifests literary as the Golden Elixir, the substance of which is the essence of one’s Fundamental Nature. It is a not a metaphor; it part of the (meta)physics of how Consciousness becomes in the human physiology and its transmutation into Immorality and enlightenment; it is literal.

 

What that Elixir is in the transcendence of the universe is pure and so it is whole, just as the xing (pure consciousness) that is the Unnamble is complete. But it only becomes of tangible value to you when you realize it.  If you can think about it conceptually as one who can think of math or physics, it may be clearer, as we are looking at the real mechanics of energetics, its movement and states of formations. However, even if one can conceptualize of it, one cannot work with it unless their experience is profound enough to transmute it- think of which physicists live in theory and which actually can directly work with such principles of condition. I do not say this to convolute modern science with esoteric alchemy or to try to bring any form of legitimacy to either bodies of knowledge. Rather, I am just pointing out one potential method of intellectual process by which a person can mentally recognize this most clearly as it takes a distinct understanding of the abstract in states of formation to begin to cognize this practically outside of the seeming romantic artistry of prose, which I think sometimes the alchemical texts are misunderstand to be. Another way to begin to understand this is if you have the opportunity to learn the esoterics within Taoism and Chinese medicine and have both a very well formed and embodied understanding of the cosmological and onotological processes that create our being; at that point, all of these things have potential to make more cohesive, tangible as well as practical sense. Discussing it sporadically in partial threads on a forum, or through random bits of antiquated foreign languages can often cause these things to appear as partial, non-cohesive bits of information. Even here, I have had to leave out many of the specific inner workings and details of ontology to provide a generalized answer.

 

Ironically though, in this case the more you can intellectually grasp this, the more you are at risk to obscure yourself from understanding it truly. So your origin of knowledge must ultimately come not from the mind, but from xing (the pure consciousness found in and through your fundamental nature).  So my suggestion is to read this as a guide, as a pointer to your senses and/or take on concerted study if you are serious in your path of cultivation. Most importantly, rather than contemplating it, practice purifying yourself, including your mind of these ideas. Keep the body and psyche healthy, then through the purity of intention, stillness and silence these things may be realized. That is the method of the cultivated sages into Immortality and Buddhahood.

 

Edited October 31, 2019 by Small Fur

[kyoji]

23 hours ago, Small Fur said:

 

 

 

Let us clarify a few concepts and refine them a bit since they are often spoken of inter-changably in spiritual and ancient texts. They are discussed this way because when we are looking at energetic forms of consciousness so close to Source that their conditions are still pure and unified, relatively uncleaved and unformed; variations in their qualities appear very subtle, similar and seemingly indistinct, however their transformations are fundamentally interrelated. Understanding these omnipresent subtlities in our system more discretely might help to bring some greater definition to the matter and thus a little more clarity. 

 

Keep in mind, that although we objectify it by making it discrete through definition, the actuality of it is simultaneously unformed, amorphous, transitional and also formed… think of it as states of matter- like vapor into water into ice, in continuous inter-transformation coexisting across different strata of dimension and time and it will be a more accurate understanding. 

 

So, taking your quote by Liu Yiming, let’s look at some key terms:

 

One’s Fundamental Nature (eg. we can call this a type of ‘essence’ for the matter of this discussion) is without form but also becomes all form (eg. the Golden Elixir, the human, existence itself). That is, this essence which moves through you and becomes you is also greater than just the form of ‘you’ or self: it is Consciousness itself. In its purity it is whole thus through you it remains unto itself whole, yet simultaneously in you it may not be complete in realization- both states of completion and incompletion comprise you at the same time (these are the energetics of the Tai Ji in daulisitc fragmentation as a part of Source in you).  Artifically we can describe this by saying you are existentially complete but mundanely incomplete and the way to rectify that is to make your mundane self the same (e.g. cultivate) as your essential self: that is to exist from the awareness of your fundamental nature in all ways and at all times. This fundamental nature may express itself in the mundane ways of human conditions but it is essentially a transcendent state. So what is meant by ‘nature’ here is not the way your wind blows this week, but what even allows you and that wind to exist at all: that is your Original Nature (Yuan Shen) or your Fundamental Nature.

 

The Golden Elixir is the pure substance of that Fundamental Nature and it is both formless and capable of becoming formed. It is essence that takes a quality of form in the purity of Fundamental Nature. While this essence of consciousness infuses all things- including our Being, when it is not yet realized in a person, it remains unsubstantive even though it is part of you. When the purity becomes substantive, it coalesces to form the Immortal Seed or Immortal Fetus.  In many ways, this substance is the same as your fundamental nature, so it is you, but again, it is also its own, just as a child is of you and your making, yet it is also its own. Because the Consciousness that is the substance of the Golden Elixir is pervasive and omnipresent, it is ‘neither more in one thing than the next’, as it is this Consciousness that gives rise to all things. But in the Enlightened Ones, this awareness is so great, it forms to create a sacred seed from which the Being can co-create in transcendence.  The Golden Seed from the purity of conscious essence is the opportunity for ‘rebirth’: a renewed, evolved existence of transcendent quality. This is not a metaphor, it is a reality experienced by a rare few, and it is sacred.

 

In short, just because something exists- even in you or as a part of you, doesn’t mean it is realized or understood in its truth. To give a more tangible and simple example, we could say that you may have a beautiful whole heart, but that you may not understand how to nourish it, care for it, live from it, so you do not realize all that it is physiologically, energetically and spiritually. When the understanding is complete, then we can begin to work with it in ourselves (ie. advanced cultivation). We are complete in essence, but most are obscured from that realization. When that realization is great enough- not just in concept, but through the whole of experience in profundity, then that depth of tunderstanding starts to become you, and it will change you. That change manifests literary as the Golden Elixir, the substance of which is the essence of one’s Fundamental Nature. It is a not a metaphor; it part of the (meta)physics of how Consciousness becomes in the human physiology and its transmutation into Immorality and enlightenment; it is literal.

 

What that Elixir is in the transcendence of the universe is pure and so it is whole, just as the xing (pure consciousness) that is the Unnamble is complete. But it only becomes of tangible value to you when you realize it.  If you can think about it conceptually as one who can think of math or physics, it may be clearer, as we are looking at the real mechanics of energetics, its movement and states of formations. However, even if one can conceptualize of it, one cannot work with it unless their experience is profound enough to transmute it- think of which physicists live in theory and which actually can directly work with such principles of condition. I do not say this to convolute modern science with esoteric alchemy or to try to bring any form of legitimacy to either bodies of knowledge. Rather, I am just pointing out one potential method of intellectual process by which a person can mentally recognize this most clearly as it takes a distinct understanding of the abstract in states of formation to begin to cognize this practically outside of the seeming romantic artistry of prose, which I think sometimes the alchemical texts are misunderstand to be. Another way to begin to understand this is if you have the opportunity to learn the esoterics within Taoism and Chinese medicine and have both a very well formed and embodied understanding of the cosmological and onotological processes that create our being; at that point, all of these things have potential to make more cohesive, tangible as well as practical sense. Discussing it sporadically in partial threads on a forum, or through random bits of antiquated foreign languages can often cause these things to appear as partial, non-cohesive bits of information. Even here, I have had to leave out many of the specific inner workings and details of ontology to provide a generalized answer.

 

Ironically though, in this case the more you can intellectually grasp this, the more you are at risk to obscure yourself from understanding it truly. So your origin of knowledge must ultimately come not from the mind, but from xing (the pure consciousness found in and through your fundamental nature).  So my suggestion is to read this as a guide, as a pointer to your senses and/or take on concerted study if you are serious in your path of cultivation. Most importantly, rather than contemplating it, practice purifying yourself, including your mind of these ideas. Keep the body and psyche healthy, then through the purity of intention, stillness and silence these things may be realized. That is the method of the cultivated sages into Immortality and Buddhahood.

 

Thank you for the insights. It was just what I needed, exactly when I needed it. Reflecting on this reply before bed tonight.

 

The last paragraph really struck a chord with me, as I know that I will never understand what I seek intellectually, but sometimes "I" forget and end up back here looking for intellectual ammunition, and entertainment. It was a divinely timed reminder.  I have accessed some very bizarre and powerful states of consciousness through various means, but because I do not follow a proper method or have a teacher, I have always let my mind runaway amuck shortly after the experiences. I'd attempt to intellectualize and verbalize something so extraordinary that trying to speak about it is really not possible, which is why IMO some of the classics seem so fucking confusing ! It is confusing as all hell.  Even the most bardic of masters, as eloquent as they may have been could not do proper justice to any of it,  although the pointers are helpful...

 

Every passing day,  it sinks in a little more that finding a proper teacher and following a proper method is the most important thing you can do in this work.. Talking about it, thinking about it, debating about it, it seems pointless. And my interest in it all is waning. So much of the time there is really nothing to say, yet we do anyways.. to sound interesting.. to be agreeable.. to posture.. to distract ourselves.. Stirring up red dust and getting it in our mouths. 

 

Anyways, ramble over. Thanks again, I truly do appreciate the thoughtfelt response. I should hurry up and sit now  

 

Your brother in Dao,

 

Kyoji