Why do YOU think the world is so messed up?

alchemystical · June 13, 2019

Whichever way you slice the cake, most people on earth sure get a crummy deal.

I mean most of us are living with far more baubles, trinkets and distractions now that at any other time but beneath the shiny veneer so many people are truly miserable that its mind boggling an entire race could be so well and truly lost.

We have those who "disconnect" from the madness of crowds and live quietly in a cave somewhere, wiling away their days doing what they do but for the vast majority of the world - who neither profess nor seek insight into their plight - its simply a case of running the treadmill and playing the game.

Looking at it from a broader perspective we're actively destroying the planet as fast as we can on many levels at once in the name of a quick profit and even spiritual topics are full of confusion and contradiction which makes one wonder, why is this world so messed up?

You can look at pretty much anything you want and deduce its been "tainted" by various means but to serve what ends? Religion is one great clusterfuck par excellence on so many levels and even Buddhism (which seems to make the most sense/grounded in reality) has its whole laughable deification and worship of Buddha when he specifically requested no such thing!

Forums such as these are packed with people who are ostensibly on the way yet time and again you see the same kind of ego conflicts from the real world play out online which makes one question exactly how enlightened they really are as their behavior suggests otherwise. It all just seems so fake when you truly look at it.

Getting back to the main topic, is this how its always been? Will always be? Why is it that at this particular time in the globe all we seem to see is chaos in a myriad of forms and people (especially crowds) acting like they have virtually no sense. Is everyone mad? Krishnamurti once said that it is no measure of health to be well adjusted to a society that is profoundly sick and he hit the nail on the head as far as I'm concerned. The question is what is the cause of this sickness and how far has it already spread? What can be done to fix it and are people in general just not aware of crazy the whole deal is?

Your inputs on this rather nebulous concept would be appreciated, however you interpret my intent and whatever bells it rings. Make it happen.

Rara · June 13, 2019

2 hours ago, alchemystical said:

Whichever way you slice the cake, most people on earth sure get a crummy deal

Pun intended? That was brilliant!

2 hours ago, alchemystical said:

I mean most of us are living with far more baubles, trinkets and distractions now that at any other time but beneath the shiny veneer so many people are truly miserable that its mind boggling an entire race could be so well and truly lost.

I know. Even my teachers are wired to their phones when not teaching. Still, they do better than most of us. If you can't beat 'em, join 'em, I guess.

2 hours ago, alchemystical said:

We have those who "disconnect" from the madness of crowds and live quietly in a cave somewhere, wiling away their days doing what they do but for the vast majority of the world - who neither profess nor seek insight into their plight - its simply a case of running the treadmill and playing the game.

Is it one way or another for you? How do you want to live?

2 hours ago, alchemystical said:

Looking at it from a broader perspective we're actively destroying the planet as fast as we can on many levels at once in the name of a quick profit and even spiritual topics are full of confusion and contradiction which makes one wonder, why is this world so messed up?

True. I still like to be optimistic and think that steps such as solar energy, recycling, abolishing diesel engines and maybe even Elon Musk may be enough to save us.

2 hours ago, alchemystical said:

You can look at pretty much anything you want and deduce its been "tainted" by various means but to serve what ends? Religion is one great clusterfuck par excellence on so many levels and even Buddhism (which seems to make the most sense/grounded in reality) has its whole laughable deification and worship of Buddha when he specifically requested no such thing!

I'd say Taoism makes most sense. But I'm biased There's some good stuff in religion if you look deep enough. The problem is the people selling it to us (or deterring us, depends which way you look at it)

2 hours ago, alchemystical said:

Forums such as these are packed with people who are ostensibly on the way yet time and again you see the same kind of ego conflicts from the real world play out online which makes one question exactly how enlightened they really are as their behavior suggests otherwise. It all just seems so fake when you truly look at it.

We're only human, give us a break. Maybe we'll all get there in the end...trial and error and all...

2 hours ago, alchemystical said:

Getting back to the main topic, is this how its always been? Will always be?

Yes.

2 hours ago, alchemystical said:

Why is it that at this particular time in the globe all we seem to see is chaos in a myriad of forms and people (especially crowds) acting like they have virtually no sense. Is everyone mad? Krishnamurti once said that it is no measure of health to be well adjusted to a society that is profoundly sick and he hit the nail on the head as far as I'm concerned.

History suggests we've always behaved like chumps. Religion is there to try and stop us behaving this way, but it's real hard.

2 hours ago, alchemystical said:

Krishnamurti once said that it is no measure of health to be well adjusted to a society that is profoundly sick and he hit the nail on the head as far as I'm concerned. The question is what is the cause of this sickness and how far has it already spread? What can be done to fix it and are people in general just not aware of crazy the whole deal is?

You two sound like a match made in heaven!

There is no fixing it. We can only fix ourselves (I hope you see the deliberate paradox here)

2 hours ago, alchemystical said:

Your inputs on this rather nebulous concept would be appreciated, however you interpret my intent and whatever bells it rings. Make it happen.

Hope my response helped get this ball rollin' for ya

thelerner · June 13, 2019

On 6/13/2019 at 1:30 PM, alchemystical said:

Whichever way you slice the cake, most people on earth sure get a crummy deal.

is this how its always been? Will always be? Why is it that at this particular time in the globe all we seem to see is chaos in a myriad of forms and people (especially crowds) acting like they have virtually no sense. Is everyone mad?

I think this is the way its always been, except in the past people had hardships** and didn't complain so much. It was the norm and culturally they accepted there lives and did the best they could without the complaining and existential belly aching so common now.

Much of it is 'grass is greener on the other side-ism'. Most of those who think the best way is going to a cave and/or escaping society are those who haven't done it, and probably wouldn't be happy if they did. Humorously many of those in outside status have gone in the opposite direction, to bigger towns or cities to take advantage of 'our' luxuries, running water, plumbing, air condition, easy food, entertainment that we take for granted.

Finding happiness and contentment isn't place oriented but acceptance and making the most of where you are. Making or finding your own sweet spot.

**like will we starve or freeze this winter. will wife & child survive child birth. will child survive. will we get another round of polio, tuberculosis, small pox or various plague that kills 10% of the population. Or die of a small or large cut.. bad water, bad food.. etc.. etc.. my grandparents, great parents on down were much much tougher psychologically then I.. who have food water plumbing and medicine on demand.

Edited June 15, 2019 by thelerner

Dynasty · June 14, 2019

Simple really. It's greed.

At this point in history, relatively few people have more wealth than has probably ever cumulatively existed for the most of our known history.

And since 99.9% of all people have a price, then those with the wealth can control them. Even if someone doesn't have a dollar figure for a price, they still have a lust for something that can be used to control them.

So, those who are at the top are absolutely corrupted and are having a good time not only watching the world burn, but orchestrating it. And they are orchestrating it through the FED, foreign policy, NGOs, social causes, war, migration, drug trafficking, legal drugs such as mood stabilizers or opiates, porn, etc.

In short, the world is messed up because humans have a natural affinity to stray from the path.

Lost in Translation · June 14, 2019

It's always been this way. The only difference is now we have a greater ability to share information so it seems worse than it actually is.

3bob · June 14, 2019

also an underlying fear...yet fear has no real or lasting root

Edited June 14, 2019 by 3bob

freeform · June 14, 2019

Is it really that bad?

Not so long ago 90% of us would be dead by the age of 40... whether as a result of enslavement, brutality, famine or illness.

I wake up and I don’t have to worry about being raped or killed... I’m pretty sure I’ll be able to eat and be in relative warmth and comfort...

As Thelerner says - it’s mostly a case of us having more time and luxury to complain. We’ve become soft and preoccupied with trivialities and ourselves and so things look bad to us. In reality they’re not that bad

Are thing perfect? - of course not and they never will be...but they’re pretty good in comparison to most of our history.

joeblast · June 14, 2019

the earth is just about poised to rid itself of banksterism, of course the bankster's mouthpieces are going to try and convince everyone the earth is collapsing

Aetherous · June 14, 2019

The world is bad because that's what it does. Even if you set your situation up perfectly, let's say having the perfect wife and kids and being really wealthy and healthy...life will still find a way to throw a curveball at you at the worst possible time. For instance, your wife cheats on you; your kid dies; you get a terminal illness; you lose all your money, etc. Try as hard as you might to avoid it, you will still be screwed with.

Some people think that living on earth is a "school" of training our spirits, and that life's "tests" are our way of learning. Perhaps higher more powerful spirits are like our administrators, ensuring that we're passing our classes.

Who knows what's really true in that regard...that's just something people speak about. But it is true that life is hard, and the world is messed up. It is very messed up in some ways, and it's partly our responsibility to correct it, as impossible as that seems.

At the same time, we can look at anything in an overly negative way, or an overly positive way. I'd say the OP is overly negative. There is a lot about life and the world that we can enjoy. If we didn't enjoy it, we wouldn't participate.

Dynasty · June 14, 2019

19 minutes ago, Aetherous said:

Some people think that living on earth is a "school" of training our spirits, and that life's "tests" are our way of learning. Perhaps higher more powerful spirits are like our administrators, ensuring that we're passing our classes.

Drill Sergeants

rideforever · June 14, 2019

One reason is that from about 20,000 years ago the brain size of human beings has decreased.

So you are born here ... but you might be shocked to find out that your species has degenerated.

People no longer comprehend even simple things, and there are arguments over everything.

Today, Wikipedia and other sources of information are being re-written day to day by people with agendas.

This means that human beings, when they are agitated will twist turn falsify burn down and destroy all available knowledge. This should frighten you in the extreme.

Similarly with various nuclear accidents that have happened, there is an industry in covering it up. Just as Monsanto and other groups cover up their own .... things.

So, this is very bad. This means that human beings are extremely untrustworthy in their activities.

Jesus said "forgive them for they know not what they do", and "they know not the day, neither do they know the hour".

Okay, now for some information.

A human being in order to comprehend reality ... must simultaneously use his intelligence, his feelings, and his body ... together these 3 dimensions of contact are able to triangulate true meaning. Knowing things through one channel is not enough to triangle truth. This is why many endless conversations sutras an arguments does not result in understanding.

One must triangulate knowledge, just like you triangulate a lighthouse on a map, and this is done through experiencing reality through 3 separate channels : the body, the intelligence, the feelings.

Today our societies are very mental and urbanised, and people do not grow normally.

Living on a farm you have a simple contact in the 3 channels, feeding chickens seeing the sun rise and so on, and so farm people naturally feel reality.

But urban people living in boxes looking at their phones do not.

Urbanisation has made people very ill.

There have been some periods in the past eras when people were in much better shape, for instance during Ancient Egypt.

But once again there is an industry to tell us that we have progressed that we are better than the past, that we have a glorious future.

But this is not true.

Look around and you will see that many die cruelly and painfully and are not saved by anyone.

Whole societies have been burnt to the ground.

Even today right now terrible things are happening right now, if you could only see the child slaves prostitutes and murders.

Right now.

Many people like the Buddhists will teach you that you don't exist, somehow it makes us all feel better to not see.

They shave their head like the army or on Wall Street, teach you to kill yourself.

Anyway, this universe and this life is Real, pain is real, death is real, immortality is real.

If you wish to be fully alive you can be and Existence will notice you and help you.

If you can imagine many inhabited planets, some are just full of animals, others are just full of angels.

Our planet is just at a very bad place on that line from animal to angel.

It is nice to think about a huge oak tree standing in the middle of a large field.

But many oak trees are growing in the swamp, in marshy cold and dark ground where the acorn fell.

Still they try valiantly no matter how bad the weather is.

One strange thing is that people believe in good and bad, rather than just good.

Human beings have many strange ideas about everything.

It is good to investigate things fully, yourself.

thelerner · June 14, 2019

33 minutes ago, rideforever said:

Many people like the Buddhists will teach you that you don't exist, somehow it makes us all feel better to not see.

They shave their head like the army or on Wall Street, teach you to kill yourself.

Not the Buddhists I've known or read or learned from. Careful you're not generalizing from a tiny minority of the very worst (teaching you to kill yourself??) to all of them. Same with life. World wide poverty has gone down drastically, that's a big plus. Violent crime, huge wars too. There are a multitude of problems but some things are moving in a good direction.

There's tens of millions of good things going on, and there are 1,000's of awful things. Hopefully we're all doing something to make the world a better place. To keep balance we need to keep a healthy perspective and not poison our souls with a constant concentration of all that's wrong in the world. Good to have a cause, but one has to take the time to smell the flowers, hang with friends and find some happiness.

I see much good, so much that its overlooked, it won't make the paper, or be talked about because its so common.

rideforever · June 14, 2019

15 minutes ago, thelerner said:

Not the Buddhists I've known or read or learned from.

That is one of their fundamental tenets, of dependent origination, meaning you simply do not exist, which is an error.

After all why bother teaching then or doing anything.

How stupid can people be.

But whether Buddhism represents Buddha, I think probably not, it is very corrupt like the mafia.

In Tibet from what I understood monks entered a small cell where they would live out their days until they stopped reaching for the food tray, at which point the next monk would drag out the dead body and take the place.

Such things are rife within Buddhism, such things are one mankind's greatest diseases.

mrpasserby · June 14, 2019

In my experience: If some seeds planted in the earth start out to comfortably, they might not decide to go to the trouble of turning themselves inside out, so that they can grow.

Edited June 15, 2019 by mrpasserby
clarify info

thelerner · June 14, 2019

2 hours ago, rideforever said:

That is one of their fundamental tenets, of dependent origination, meaning you simply do not exist, which is an error.

After all why bother teaching then or doing anything.

How stupid can people be.

But whether Buddhism represents Buddha, I think probably not, it is very corrupt like the mafia.

In Tibet from what I understood monks entered a small cell where they would live out their days until they stopped reaching for the food tray, at which point the next monk would drag out the dead body and take the place.

Such things are rife within Buddhism, such things are one mankind's greatest diseases.

So.. you think thats regular Buddhism?? Lock yourself in a room til dead!?

Good news, it's not! Rather, Buddhism has a nice clear view of human psychology and how to live well. Well worth reading regardless of religious leaning.

Lots of great wisdom to learn from it. If you talk to a Buddhist or go to a temple you'll find they're not the mafia, they know they exist and you do too. You'll probably hear a sermon about some life subject, maybe you'll like it, it won't be about locking yourself in a room til dead.

There are Buddhists here who could recommend good books on the subject. I'd point you to Ajahn Brahms work. Tons of free dharma talks easily found on the web, even free books available. Humorous and insightful and practical, he was a head monk. Full of wisdom and good cheer, pretty hip too. I'd also point you to the Zen inspired talks of Infinite Smile. Good stuff, lots of insights into how to live in the world skillfully.

wonder if this link will work- on negativity. Maybe it'll brighten your spirit. Worth listening too. https://brahmstalks.wordpress.com

Edited June 14, 2019 by thelerner

silent thunder · June 14, 2019

I don't...

There may be pain. There may be discomfort.

This does not mean there is suffering.

Suffering is a crisis of perception.

A product of the storyteller.

Aetherous · June 14, 2019

Just now, silent thunder said:

I don't...

There may be pain. There may be discomfort.

This does not mean there is suffering.

Suffering is a crisis of perception.

A product of the storyteller.

I mean, there are also really bad things happening in the world, outside of our immediate perception, too. For most of us on the forum, life is relatively good. Not everyone has it so well, that they can say suffering is just due to perception.

3bob · June 14, 2019

going by impartial non-human karmic/cosmic math everything is perfect math wise -- which doesn't do shit for any of those suffering and weeping in pain in some form of the thousands that there are!

Edited June 14, 2019 by 3bob

silent thunder · June 14, 2019

1 hour ago, Aetherous said:

I mean, there are also really bad things happening in the world, outside of our immediate perception, too. For most of us on the forum, life is relatively good. Not everyone has it so well, that they can say suffering is just due to perception.

~~speaking~~ written from localized awareness' experience.

the words chosen convey only what was intended.

how interpreted, or received is in each other localized awareness and how they respond to stimulus.

the question... 'why do YOU think the world is messed so up?" was answered.

no authority implied, claimed, nor inferred as to the authority of the answer on other localized awareness and how they experience, interpret and thus potentially answer.

no kinship was offered in the answer, nor was sought an agreeability factor, as nothing is being sold, only shared.

peace

Aetherous · June 14, 2019

19 minutes ago, silent thunder said:

~~speaking~~ written from localized awareness' experience.

the words chosen convey only what was intended.

how interpreted, or received is in each other localized awareness and how they respond to stimulus.

the question... 'why do YOU think the world is messed so up?" was answered.

no authority implied, claimed, nor inferred as to the authority of the answer on other localized awareness and how they experience, interpret and thus potentially answer.

no kinship was offered in the answer, nor was sought an agreeability factor, as nothing is being sold, only shared.

peace

I guess because it was asking for one's personal opinion, that's legitimate. No need to get defensive here, though...my challenge that we expand our awareness outside of our subjective lens into the objective reality, in which most humans suffer immensely (and not just in their minds), wasn't intended to be something taken negatively. I didn't mean to single you out personally; it's just that your post was relevant to this.

thelerner · June 14, 2019

wonder if human suffering can be quantified? Probably some statistics or studies that are out there. There is extreme poverty, < a dollar a day kind of stuff, doesn't always mean extreme suffering, especially for people and tribes that don't live by commerce. But hunger and deprivation, not having the basics met, to me that is suffering. A population thats actively fighting against there government, that's suffering but again hard to quantify.

Then there's the whole sphere of human unhappiness of wanting what the Jones have.

silent thunder · June 14, 2019

51 minutes ago, Aetherous said:

I guess because it was asking for one's personal opinion, that's legitimate. No need to get defensive here, though...my challenge that we expand our awareness outside of our subjective lens into the objective reality, in which most humans suffer immensely (and not just in their minds), wasn't intended to be something taken negatively. I didn't mean to single you out personally; it's just that your post was relevant to this.