Tantra...

[Jonesboy]

18 minutes ago, Pilgrim said:

Sorry not the best example of the practice in the video in the actual teaching he goes way more in depth this is very on the surface.

 

 

Thank you for the video.

 

Do you mind sharing what the connection is like for you during and after the practice?

[Pilgrim]

1 minute ago, Jonesboy said:

 

Thank you for the video.

 

Do you mind sharing what the connection is like for you during and after the practice?

Ah now this I can do and will. Right now getting ready to go to a client will reply later.

 

For now I will say it is a beautiful practice

[Jeff]

1 hour ago, Jonesboy said:

 

Thank you, I would love to see the teachings on it.

 

It is amazing, we have been talking about merging for years and people have told us we are nuts... and now it seems it has always been part of Buddhist traditions.

 

Dzogchen/Bon very definitely has transmission with connection to various beings.  Both living and non-physical. Merging is a very hard word to use as your meaning of the word is not the same as others.

[Jonesboy]

13 minutes ago, Jeff said:

 

Dzogchen/Bon very definitely has transmission with connection to various beings.  Both living and non-physical. Merging is a very hard word to use as your meaning of the word is not the same as others.

 

You mean like with Dakini practices?

[Jeff]

1 minute ago, Jonesboy said:

 

You mean like with Dakini practices?

 

There are many.  Also, Norbu clearly states to potential to accomplish "energy things" with others.  And even things like "healing" are a form of what I would call tantra.

[Pilgrim]

Appointment scheduled for a bit later can reply now.

 

From the very start there is a deep feeling of connection and familiarity with TWR it is like love for a family member and deep respect.

 

When the invocations are sung I can hardly even get the words right but the feeling in my heart is one of soaring joy that often makes me cry with a releasing and rapturing type of effect.

 

Truly tears of joy and the words so soothing and familiar from the first time I ever heard them like a long ago memory familiar and sacred with no knowledge they should be.

 

Tapritsa , when it comes to this being I was drawn to him immediately just like TWR. 

 

To connect to him requires willingness and and openness to be helped.

 

For me this was very easy like something natural that I forgot but was remembering but not clearly.

 

So I simply become open to accepting aid and my heart opens and and my heart is connected to his.

 

Divine vibration flows from this being and I resonate with his heart improving my own washing away so many lodged things.

 

When AH is chanted the purification of the body I feel the connection as described above but coming into the head and my crown crackles and swirls with energy and my forehead fairly glows with vibration and here I feel the etheric double taking on the vibration of the elder and the tradition. The changes are felt happening things align and resonate better like an installment being tuned.

 

When Om is changed the throat speachnis purified and I feel more inclined to soft words making them easier to chew when I have to eat them and a more compassionate caring attitude towards others. I find that even though I can be blunt I prefer gentle in my interactions with others in everyday life.

 

When we chant HUNG the heart connection is reinforced as we purify the mind.

 

There is a great feeling of love and sorrow and memories I do not even remember acquiring being released and quite allot o relief but this particular cleansing is very overwhelming for me and I often have to wait along time before practicing and grow into the changes or it gets overwhelming.

 

Afterwards I feel much different and it is similar to the Paravastha state of Kriya where one is naturally abiding in the after effects.

 

The after effects are a very calm contented state of stillness spaciousness and silence and it is good but all the while the momentum of change is taking place like a tire let go of on a hill keeps rolling faster.

Edited June 24, 2019 by Pilgrim

[C T]

Tantra throws lots of curve balls too right.... At speed. If one hopes for serenity, quietude etc best not to work with that path. 

[Jeff]

1 minute ago, C T said:

Tantra throws lots of curve balls too right.... At speed. If one hopes for serenity, quietude etc best not to work with that path. 

 

Excellent point.

[Fa Xin]

Focusing on the "other" allows me to forget "myself"...

the self drops away when my heart and mind are focused on my "Beloved" (or object of tantra)

 

Some will say, "If there's someone else, that's separation"

But I disappear, so there's only One left.  For a time, I become them.

For a time...

 

But If I go deep, and go often... I start to notice the feel of my Beloved is still with me, even after I open my eyes. 

Maybe we aren't so separate, after all.

 

I start to feel my Beloved in all types of things. 

When I see family, celebrations, good times.

Then polite encounters with strangers.

There she is...

Then in the most mundane and unpleasant of places.

 

Relaxing into my Beloved,

she reveals and fulfills life.

She is all of it, even me.

I don't know what you call it...

it doesn't much matter anyway.

[Jonesboy]

Here is an interesting quote from Norbu on Tantra from the book Dzogchen Teachings.

 

Spoiler

In general, Tantra is a Sanskrit word used also in Hinduism; but even
though the same word is used, it does not always have the same meaning.
In the Tantric teachings of the Buddhist tradition, tantra means
our real condition. In the real sense, tantra means “continuity,” or “continuation.”
What does continuity of our real nature mean? It means a
recognition or understanding of our energy level.

 

For example, we have infinite thoughts arising that can be good or bad.
We also have a conception of good and bad, but the root of these thoughts is
relative to our energy, a kind of movement of thought, the source of which
is part of our real condition. If we observe a thought, where is it? Where
does it go? When we observe it, we cannot find anything. What we always
find is emptiness, the real condition of all things, the Dharmadhatu.
Immediately after one thought, another thought arises. When we
observe this second thought, it disappears, and we find only emptiness.
Immediately after that, the third and fourth thoughts arise, and this
continues infinitely. We have this infinite movement because we have
that potentiality, that energy, in our nature. This is the real meaning of
continuation—continuation of emptiness and movement, energy and
movement, again and again, without interruption. That knowledge and
understanding is the principle of the Tantric teaching, and is related
more to our energy level.

Although not transmitted on the physical level by the Buddha, this
teaching was transmitted through his manifestation. This is a characteristic
feature of Tantric teaching. Those who follow this kind of teaching
need more capacity to follow and understand. The physical level is
always easier to understand. For example, if you see someone coming,
what you see is their physical body. It is not so easy to see the energy
level of that person. If someone had no physical body, but was only energy
or mind, you wouldn’t be able to see them. If you could, it would
mean you had a special capacity. That is an example of how energy is

more difficult to understand.

 

[Apech]

30 minutes ago, Jonesboy said:

Here is an interesting quote from Norbu on Tantra from the book Dzogchen Teachings.

 

  Hide contents

In general, Tantra is a Sanskrit word used also in Hinduism; but even
though the same word is used, it does not always have the same meaning.
In the Tantric teachings of the Buddhist tradition, tantra means
our real condition. In the real sense, tantra means “continuity,” or “continuation.”
What does continuity of our real nature mean? It means a
recognition or understanding of our energy level.

 

For example, we have infinite thoughts arising that can be good or bad.
We also have a conception of good and bad, but the root of these thoughts is
relative to our energy, a kind of movement of thought, the source of which
is part of our real condition. If we observe a thought, where is it? Where
does it go? When we observe it, we cannot find anything. What we always
find is emptiness, the real condition of all things, the Dharmadhatu.
Immediately after one thought, another thought arises. When we
observe this second thought, it disappears, and we find only emptiness.
Immediately after that, the third and fourth thoughts arise, and this
continues infinitely. We have this infinite movement because we have
that potentiality, that energy, in our nature. This is the real meaning of
continuation—continuation of emptiness and movement, energy and
movement, again and again, without interruption. That knowledge and
understanding is the principle of the Tantric teaching, and is related
more to our energy level.

Although not transmitted on the physical level by the Buddha, this
teaching was transmitted through his manifestation. This is a characteristic
feature of Tantric teaching. Those who follow this kind of teaching
need more capacity to follow and understand. The physical level is
always easier to understand. For example, if you see someone coming,
what you see is their physical body. It is not so easy to see the energy
level of that person. If someone had no physical body, but was only energy
or mind, you wouldn’t be able to see them. If you could, it would
mean you had a special capacity. That is an example of how energy is

more difficult to understand.

 

 

That's very good, thanks.

[mrpasserby]

On 6/24/2019 at 6:46 AM, Jonesboy said:

 

Thank you, I would love to see the teachings on it.

 

It is amazing, we have been talking about merging for years and people have told us we are nuts... and now it seems it has always been part of Buddhist traditions.

Here is a post that I wrote for  *Patheos/Pagen, that is about a type of group merging, that in action I consider it a type of 'tantra':

'John, in my opinion: The original religion was and is the gathering of like minded people using simple techniques to form a folk soul="church", then one or more people channel/connect to the life force of the folk soul, and initiate those willing to evolve/transcend to the next level of awareness/quickening, and so it goes, until all have become Hole(christian call it Holy, Hindus call it realized, Buddhist call it nirvana, Taoist enlightenment, etc...). 

*https://www.patheos.com/blogs/johnbeckett/2019/05/exploring-the-origins-of-religion.html

Edited June 25, 2019 by mrpasserby
added content

[rex]

13 hours ago, Jonesboy said:

Here is an interesting quote from Norbu on Tantra from the book Dzogchen Teachings.

 

  Reveal hidden contents

In general, Tantra is a Sanskrit word used also in Hinduism; but even
though the same word is used, it does not always have the same meaning.
In the Tantric teachings of the Buddhist tradition, tantra means
our real condition. In the real sense, tantra means “continuity,” or “continuation.”
What does continuity of our real nature mean? It means a
recognition or understanding of our energy level.

 

For example, we have infinite thoughts arising that can be good or bad.
We also have a conception of good and bad, but the root of these thoughts is
relative to our energy, a kind of movement of thought, the source of which
is part of our real condition. If we observe a thought, where is it? Where
does it go? When we observe it, we cannot find anything. What we always
find is emptiness, the real condition of all things, the Dharmadhatu.
Immediately after one thought, another thought arises. When we
observe this second thought, it disappears, and we find only emptiness.
Immediately after that, the third and fourth thoughts arise, and this
continues infinitely. We have this infinite movement because we have
that potentiality, that energy, in our nature. This is the real meaning of
continuation—continuation of emptiness and movement, energy and
movement, again and again, without interruption. That knowledge and
understanding is the principle of the Tantric teaching, and is related
more to our energy level.

Although not transmitted on the physical level by the Buddha, this
teaching was transmitted through his manifestation. This is a characteristic
feature of Tantric teaching. Those who follow this kind of teaching
need more capacity to follow and understand. The physical level is
always easier to understand. For example, if you see someone coming,
what you see is their physical body. It is not so easy to see the energy
level of that person. If someone had no physical body, but was only energy
or mind, you wouldn’t be able to see them. If you could, it would
mean you had a special capacity. That is an example of how energy is

more difficult to understand.

 

Like what Apech said. This quote goes with this:

 

Edited June 26, 2019 by rex
Tpyo

[Jonesboy]

14 hours ago, mrpasserby said:

Here is a post that I wrote for  *Patheos/Pagen, that is about a type of group merging, that in action I consider it a type of 'tantra':

'John, in my opinion: The original religion was and is the gathering of like minded people using simple techniques to form a folk soul="church", then one or more people channel/connect to the life force of the folk soul, and initiate those willing to evolve/transcend to the next level of awareness/quickening, and so it goes, until all have become Hole(christian call it Holy, Hindus call it realized, Buddhist call it nirvana, Taoist enlightenment, etc...). 

*https://www.patheos.com/blogs/johnbeckett/2019/05/exploring-the-origins-of-religion.html

 

Interesting stuff.

 

Thank you.

[Jonesboy]

4 hours ago, rex said:

Like what Apech said. This quote goes with this:

 

 

Yes, that is very nice.

 

From the Norbu quote it is very important to understand what he means by movement. Eventually one can feel thoughts as movements of energy, as flows of energy, be they silent or not. The next step is to be in that movement.

 

 

[C T]

3 hours ago, Jonesboy said:

 

Yes, that is very nice.

 

From the Norbu quote it is very important to understand what he means by movement. Eventually one can feel thoughts as movements of energy, as flows of energy, be they silent or not. The next step is to be in that movement.

 

 

 

May I ask about the significance of developing the capability to feel thoughts as movements of energy, and in what way does such a capability benefit the maturing of rigpa? 

[Jonesboy]

20 minutes ago, C T said:

 

May I ask about the significance of developing the capability to feel thoughts as movements of energy, and in what way does such a capability benefit the maturing of rigpa? 

 

It is another step in realizing that everything is energy, in directly experiencing the energy and emptiness of thoughts. Being able to reside in that movement, issues are just gone or you could say self liberate. Clarity shines forth.

 

Norbu, explains it like this.

 

Quote

If, instead, while observing my state I notice thoughts,
such as for example: "Here, now I am in the calm state" or
"Here, now a thoughts is arising", there is a way in which I
can be present 'in' the thought itself without engaging the
mechanisms of judgment. If I had to say or explain what
is happening in that moment, on the one hand it is utterly
impossible for me to find the words, but on the other hand
I retain a precise memory of it.

This presence of awareness is very important, it must not
be lacking, otherwise the practice of Shine ends up sinking
into a sleepy state.

 

2. A natural state of total spontaneity.

This is what is called rigpa, the recognition of pure
presence. Presence can be recognized above all in the
condition where there are thoughts, that is, in the
condition of 'movement'.

When during practice there are more thoughts (that is,
'more fish are leaping') there is also the opportunity to
recognize presence as the manifestation of wisdom, and, at
the same time, together with the movement of thoughts one
can also recognize the presence of the state of calm, nepa.
You must understand that fundamentally all three states
are at the same level: the state of calm, nepa, is movement,
the state of movement itself, gyuwa, is calm, and rigpa is
pure recognition of your own state, that is present in both.

 

To get to that state of pure presence one must first realize that thoughts are energy and then be able to reside in that energy.

Edited June 26, 2019 by Jonesboy

[C T]

18 minutes ago, Jonesboy said:

 

It is another step in realizing that everything is energy, in directly experiencing the energy and emptiness of thoughts. Being able to reside in that movement, issues are just gone or you could say self liberate. Clarity shines forth.

 

Norbu, explains it like this.

 

 

 

 

To get to that state of pure presence on must first realize that thoughts are energy and then be able to reside in that energy.

 

I see. 

 

From your understanding, how does one get to that *state? 

 

 

*bolded

[Jonesboy]

4 minutes ago, C T said:

 

I see. 

 

From your understanding, how does one get to that *state? 

 

 

*bolded

 

My view is different than Norbu's. Norbu would say do Shine with Object and then Shine without Object. The point of Shine without Object is to realize that movement.

 

I never did Shine or a system of practices to realize what is being described.

 

Feeling those flows happened when I went light. I had no idea what it was in a traditional sense. I just knew it was my thoughts. What is interesting is when one is caught up the flows can become like a raging river.. i.e get much stronger.

 

Something that I also realized is that if I am feeling a thing, like those flows/movement that it was dualistic to me. So I started to reside in them, to just let go or rest in those flows. I would do that during conversations, when watching tv. as much as possible just residing, letting go and being those flows. I could start to be in an argument and reside in those flows and all my upsets, all that I was caught up in would go away.

 

I didn't find this teaching about it till years later..

 

 

 

 

[Fa Xin]

9 minutes ago, Jonesboy said:

 

My view is different than Norbu's. Norbu would say do Shine with Object and then Shine without Object. The point of Shine without Object is to realize that movement.

 

I never did Shine or a system of practices to realize what is being described.

 

Feeling those flows happened when I went light. I had no idea what it was in a traditional sense. I just knew it was my thoughts. What is interesting is when one is caught up the flows can become like a raging river.. i.e get much stronger.

 

Something that I also realized is that if I am feeling a thing, like those flows/movement that it was dualistic to me. So I started to reside in them, to just let go or rest in those flows. I would do that during conversations, when watching tv. as much as possible just residing, letting go and being those flows. I could start to be in an argument and reside in those flows and all my upsets, all that I was caught up in would go away.

 

I didn't find this teaching about it till years later..

 

 

 

 

 

Good stuff Jonesboy ! 

 

I first started to practice feeling and residing in energy from a qigong practice. 

 

A major shift happened for me when I started feeling energy from things and people, rather than just caused by and only during said practice. 

 

I believed I could only do that while doing the Qigong form or shortly after. It really limited my time (and increased how often I did the form.)

 

 

 

They say meditation is all about integrating it into your life anyway.

 

Edited June 26, 2019 by Fa Xin

[C T]

9 minutes ago, Jonesboy said:

 

My view is different than Norbu's. Norbu would say do Shine with Object and then Shine without Object. The point of Shine without Object is to realize that movement.

 

I never did Shine or a system of practices to realize what is being described.

 

Feeling those flows happened when I went light. I had no idea what it was in a traditional sense. I just knew it was my thoughts. What is interesting is when one is caught up the flows can become like a raging river.. i.e get much stronger.

 

Something that I also realized is that if I am feeling a thing, like those flows/movement that it was dualistic to me. So I started to reside in them, to just let go or rest in those flows. I would do that during conversations, when watching tv. as much as possible just residing, letting go and being those flows. I could start to be in an argument and reside in those flows and all my upsets, all that I was caught up in would go away.

 

I didn't find this teaching about it till years later..

 

 

 

 

 

Would it have any similarity to what is being shared in this vid? 

 

 

[Jonesboy]

40 minutes ago, C T said:

 

Would it have any similarity to what is being shared in this vid? 

 

 

 

In my previous post I was going to talk about this but deleted it. Learning to reside in the energy of an upset, is the same type of residing. Residing doesn't change, it just get's deeper.

 

I believe what he is saying is much like what I was saying here.

 

 

[Jonesboy]

I found this interesting from the Norbu quote on Dzogchen Teachings.

 

Quote

 For example, if you see someone coming,
what you see is their physical body. It is not so easy to see the energy
level of that person. If someone had no physical body, but was only energy
or mind, you wouldn’t be able to see them. If you could, it would
mean you had a special capacity. That is an example of how energy is

more difficult to understand.

 

Any thoughts on a person being only energy or mind and being able to see them?

[Apech]

2 hours ago, Jonesboy said:

I found this interesting from the Norbu quote on Dzogchen Teachings.

 

 

Any thoughts on a person being only energy or mind and being able to see them?

 

Their form would be more fluid without the anchor of a phys. bod.

[C T]

2 hours ago, Jonesboy said:

I found this interesting from the Norbu quote on Dzogchen Teachings.

 

 

Any thoughts on a person being only energy or mind and being able to see them?

 

Is that a vital part of your practice, being able to "see" energy? 

 

I believe the mind has potential to access rituals that will yield siddhis if that is what one desires, 

but its not something that Im particularly concerned about. Supposedly, within the 8 classifications of siddhis (common to Buddhist esoterica, which is somewhat different to KS esoterica) I'd imagine that exposure to learning how to map out or "scan" a person's energetic field will be a basic but essential skill to develop. Its just a speculation though.