Taoist meditation techniques

[Toni]

Yesterday I went to a qigong class. The teacher taught a daoist meditation technique very simple and powerful. I think she said it was called "the breath of the wind" but i am not sure.

You just had to sit cross legged in the standard position with palms up. Inhaling through the nose and looking 45 degrees up, and exhaling through the mouth and looking 45 degrees down, always with the eyes closed.

She said that if we did that we would have more vivid and realistic dreams. And it is true. I have had a very vivid nightmare as I never had before. I saw a demon touching me while i was sleeping. I could see him, feel him and even hear him. Who was this f... demon?

I think i will not do this med again as i am prone to have nightmares. But now i am curious about other taoist meds so simple and powerful as this one. Do you know any to share here? And does anybody know this technique?

Edited June 21, 2019 by Toni

[Rocky Lionmouth]

Never heard of the technique before, sounds like a fairly scary dream though.

 

Dreamwork is fairly finnicky business it seems, pretty advanced and i’d wager someone with more knowledge than me can chime in on protective measures or routines.

 

What was your feeling when this demon touched you? Why was it there do you think? How did your sleeping self react to the touch?

Sometimes things can seem scary but their looks hide their purpose or role.

If you seemed to sleep on undisturbed by its touch it can mean such a thing has no power over you, even though it was close and did its very best.

 

Or, and i’m not saying it has to be like this, but perhaps you just dreamt your fears and saw them clearly, but it was just a dream so know you know more than before?

 

I think sleep should be practiced for its main purposes, ie rest, recuperation and relaxation. If you study a full body relaxation exercise with some nice deep breathing and focus on finding a refreshing rest while sleeping and waking up energized i think you’ll experience a fairly dreamless sleep. Try it out?

[Toni]

Thanks! I will not do this med again probably. When the demon touched me i started yelling and i woke up scared. I have no idea why the demon was there. It is probably a deep fear, but I don't fully understand it.

I love rexaled sleeping but this med caused this

Edited June 21, 2019 by Toni

[rideforever]

 

[Starjumper]

4 hours ago, Toni said:

She said that if we did that we would have more vivid and realistic dreams. And it is true. I have had a very vivid nightmare as I never had before. I saw a demon touching me while i was sleeping. I could see him, feel him and even hear him. Who was this f... demon?

 

Probably a friend of the teacher, who was the teacher?

[Toni]

A woman. I don't think you know her 

[Starjumper]

42 minutes ago, Toni said:

A woman. I don't think you know her 

 

Probably not, but some here might.  I can do face reading, if you could post a picture or website we can take a look.

 

Barring that possibly you could share a description of the appearance of the demon.  I've seen demons before and it seems they have a certain characteristic look.  

Edited June 21, 2019 by Starjumper

[Toni]

The demon made a noise similar to a snake. But i couldn,t say exactaly what his face looked like.

I don't have a picture of the teacher, and it is not on a website as far as i know

Edited June 21, 2019 by Toni

[Starjumper]

OK, I had demons visit me a couple of times, the little dears are so eager to help you  ... to get you on their side.

 

The demons that I called (three showed up) looked a lot like the bad guys, the alien arms dealers in the movie, "The Fifth Element", but not so cartoonish and with a much more sinister aura.  Did your visitor seem like that in any way?

[Starjumper]

Kind of like this?

 

 

 

Wearing what looked like a warrior harness/armor kind of costume.

 

Sweet dreams = )

Edited June 21, 2019 by Starjumper

[Aetherous]

5 hours ago, Toni said:

She said that if we did that we would have more vivid and realistic dreams. And it is true. I have had a very vivid nightmare as I never had before. I saw a demon touching me while i was sleeping. I could see him, feel him and even hear him. Who was this f... demon?

I think i will not do this med again as i am prone to have nightmares.

 

It may have been caused by your own mind. You are already prone to nightmares (and this technique was said to increase dreams in general). So perhaps this is just another nightmare.

The technique doesn't sound demonic in itself, although maybe best to stick with methods that bring good results.

I would think real demonic experiences would happen more during a half awake or awake state of mind...not within the dream itself. Although, it could.

[Toni]

The demon was quite human like

[Cheshire Cat]

The technique isn't "daoist". I wouldn't label it in any way, but it looks much more like a sufi preliminary method for dikhr. 

 

Nothing to worry about, in my opinion. 

[Starjumper]

11 hours ago, Starjumper said:

Kind of like this?

 

Actually they don't have those stupid looking ears, and not nearly as wrinkly, (like I said, not as cartoonish, by far) but with an otherwise similar flavor.

 

I case you're wondering about the outcome of the visit from those three demons who answered my call, they failed their interview.  They were persistent though, they came to visit two nights in a row.

 

One thing to ask yourself is about this.  It appears that you knew it was a demon in spite of not seeing it's face.  So, was it a knowing, or was it guessing.  Feels to me it was like a knowing.  How can someone know when they see a demon if they never saw one before?  They just do, that's how.  In any case, I would take that teacher who you did this meditation with, with a grain of salt.

 

The spirit realm - where shadows seek after humans.

Edited June 22, 2019 by Starjumper

[Rocky Lionmouth]

13 hours ago, Toni said:

A woman. I don't think you know her 

 

Do you also have this feeling he gets around some? I do.

 

Yo Starman, do you?

 

16 hours ago, Toni said:

Thanks! I will not do this med again probably. When the demon touched me i started yelling and i woke up scared. I have no idea why the demon was there. It is probably a deep fear, but I don't fully understand it.

I love rexaled sleeping but this med caused this

 

I’m reading your description as if you saw it from outside of yourself, as if being a spectator to a visitation, am i getting it wrong? 

 

I think @Aetherous has a valid point for you to consider, the man has chops.

Second on the notion of noticing a demonic visitation is more likely in the borderlands between sleep and wakefullness.

As far as ”real”* dreams go my working hypothesis is they’re an internal experience, sort of like the pop-science explanation that its either your brain ”sorting” things out after a day of making new connections and rehasing old stuff or that it’s the id blurbing stuff with some editing from the self and superego as far as the imagery goes...

 

One thing that strikes me is that you call it a demon.

Not an entity, not a ghost, not a monster or disfigured man; demon is the name you give it. This might be relevant for your understanding of what this could be about.

It’s interesting you say it’s a deep fear and that you don’t fully understand it, yet in this dream the demon actually interacting directly with you caused you to yell (expressing, calling for help, activating adrenal response, expelling old breath forcefully to energize and increase oxygenation) and then wake up.

This is a long shot but interpreting it there are two powerful actions you undertook, you strengthen your body (yelling) and changed the rules of the situation (waking up).

This fear might have quite an effect on you but your dreaming and waking speaks to your being equipped to deal with it.

 

There might be something to the fact it made a hissing/sibilating sound and you’re quite positive it was a he-demon but the face was, as it were, indistinguishable. More possible clues to pinpoint the object of your fear. It wants to touch you when you are most vulnerable or relaxed, there’s a hissing noise, it is male (many possible interpretations there) but it is not a knowable individual, but you can respond and escape the situation.

 

Analyze wide and laterally, look at scary concepts and what you consider yourself vulnerable to or what is worrysome when you feel at ease.

Idk where you’re from and what your cultural influences are but what demons are considered to be where you’re from can give you yet more clues to the nature of this phenomenon that you fear exposion to.

My notion lf demons is that they posess some sort of supernatural powers, have a maglinant intent and purpose to cause harm either by own volition or by order of others who wield power over them, they’re not really of this world but arent really spirits (neutral, dead folks, nature or location etc) nor deities or immortals. Christianity has demons pegged as fallen angels (often at least) and Chinese folklore etc, fwik, signifies demons to be reincarnations or enitites below human level as far as development goes, they’re angry and raging but can also be under the appropriated service of benevolent deities among others...

 

Idk, food for thought Toni, most of all i advise you not to give this demon more power over you than you’re comfy with. Just because it’s scary it don’t mean it can do anything to you.

 

 

 

*real dreams ie the ones that just happen when you sleep, distinguishable from lucid dreams, astral(?) stuff, half waking visions etc.

[Starjumper]

10 hours ago, Rocky Lionmouth said:

   On 6/21/2019 at 6:34 AM,  Toni said: 

A woman. I don't think you know her 

Do you also have this feeling he gets around some? I do.

 

Yo Starman, do you?

 

Not sure which feeling you are referring to.

[Wu Ming Jen]

I am familiar with the sitting technique Inhale looking up exhale looking down all done through the nose with hands on the ltd as an energy lock as well as abdomen breathing awareness when the hand are on your belly.that is just one part of the exercise the rest is looking left looking right and head rotation circle one direction reverse direction with the breath.. Has absolutely nothing to do with dreams it is to condition the neck preventing whip ;lash effects and increasing flexibility.

 

The demon is an imprint of your teacher mentioning a connection with dreams. 

[Pilgrim]

On 6/21/2019 at 9:07 AM, Starjumper said:

Kind of like this?

 

 

 

Wearing what looked like a warrior harness/armor kind of costume.

 

Sweet dreams = )

No! No! No!

 

you got it all wrong the demon looked like this 

Spoiler

https://images.app.goo.gl/kCtmRkxUFJABSxNw8

 

[Toni]

 if i dream about that i would kill myself 

[Starjumper]

2 hours ago, Pilgrim said:

you got it all wrong the demon looked like this 

  Reveal hidden contents

https://images.app.goo.gl/kCtmRkxUFJABSxNw8

 

 

Whew, glad I wasn't there ... and now I can't unsee that.

[Rara]

Well...

 

The complete opposite for me. Palms on knees, cross legged, on a straw cushion if you can get your hands on one. Look at the nose, breathe in through the nose....and out through the nose.

 

You don't want lucid dreams. You want something to calm you and to enhance your energy, not shatter it and give you too much excitement or anxiety!

Edited June 24, 2019 by Rara

[Toni]

29 minutes ago, Rara said:

Well...

 

The complete opposite for me. Palms on knees, cross legged, on a straw cushion if you can get your hands on one. Look at the nose, breathe in through the nose....and out through the nose.

 

You don't want lucid dreams. You want something to calm you and to enhance your energy, not shatter it and give you too much excitement or anxiety!

I couldn't agree more, especially after having seen the ugly demon 

[Rara]

4 hours ago, Toni said:

I couldn't agree more, especially after having seen the ugly demon 

 

I'm glad you got some common sense going on there haha

[Walker]

On 6/21/2019 at 3:04 PM, Toni said:

You just had to sit cross legged in the standard position with palms up. Inhaling through the nose and looking 45 degrees up, and exhaling through the mouth and looking 45 degrees down, always with the eyes closed.

She said that if we did that we would have more vivid and realistic dreams. And it is true. I have had a very vivid nightmare as I never had before.

 

There are a million and one schools and sub-schools of Daoism, so what I am about to say is a generalization, nothing more: Daoists tend not to teach things designed to promote vivid dreaming, and rather to teach things that harmonize the jing, qi, and shen in ways that make dreams less vivid and less frequent. Underlying this is the common understanding that most dreams reflect the qi of the body being in some way out of balance. Dream-heavy sleep is not seen as being particularly nourishing sleep, and the "information" one might believe one gleans from dreams is not usually given much value, because Daoism generally does not believe that an undeveloped practitioner is likely to be receiving messages from the celestial realms while snoozing. Another common understanding lying at a yet deeper level is that a true adept does not fall into unconsciousness nor experience any types of delusions, which most dreams are. Such adepts may receive direct transmissions in sleep, but will recognize the qi of the transmission for what it is, and have no questions about its source and the true nature of the "dream."

 

As for the practice, some thoughts: exercising the eyes in this way will direct plenty of qi to the areas of the body associated with shen, thereby stimulating the shen. If the qi has not redistributed by the time you go to sleep, this alone may be enough to trigger dreams, hypnagogic hallucinations, or lights in your head. Add to this that the eyes are the opening of the liver, and the liver should "contain the blood" (a metaphor, not an anatomical occurrence) during sleep, then if you stimulate the eyes you may agitate the liver qi in such a way that blood does not "rest" as it should at night. Since "blood is the physical basis of the shen," overly active blood at night will only contribute to shen's activity, which can manifest as vivid dreams. Also, since the liver is associated with the hun spirits, if you have stimulated your liver qi via the eyes, this too can create conditions that lead to sleep with vivid dreams. All of this might sound like TCM woo-woo (and it is), but think about it this way: if you stare at a TV or phone or computer late at night you're basically doing the same thing, and will affect your sleep. People who get into the habit of dimming lights at home in the evening and partaking of simple, slow hobbies at night instead of placing their eyes on glowing screens full of activity and detail and placing their shen upon exciting movies or games or news articles, will find themselves having having deeper, more placid sleep. TCM explains the mechanism underlying this change via many of the same mechanisms that affect the practice you described. 

 

Finally, breathing out through the mouth can help to remove turbid qi from the body, but any practice that has this effect can also quickly begin to make a dent in one's "right qi." If you were instructed to continue the mouth breathing for a long time you might have done so, which will only contribute to the body's qi being in an unbalanced state, which is one of the bases for having dreams. 

 

On 6/21/2019 at 3:04 PM, Toni said:

I saw a demon touching me while i was sleeping. I could see him, feel him and even hear him. Who was this f... demon?

 

A Daoist would probably say that it might have been a nightmare, but might also have been a ghost or demon. Since this has only happened once, no need to worry about it too much. 

 

On 6/21/2019 at 3:04 PM, Toni said:

I think i will not do this med again as i am prone to have nightmares

 

The Daoists I know would say you've made a wise decision. It is generally advised that one should not leap into shen-stimulating practices early on, and if/when one does so, it should be under the guidance of a trusted and experienced teacher.

 

On 6/21/2019 at 3:04 PM, Toni said:

 But now i am curious about other taoist meds so simple and powerful as this one. Do you know any to share here? And does anybody know this technique?

 

Never heard of this technique. There are countless techniques that can be fit under the broad umbrella of Daoism, many of which bear little resemblance to one another and in fact take practitioners in quite difference directions. Daoism definitely contains many simple and powerful practices--in fact, it is often true that the simpler they are, the more powerful they are. Because they can trigger strong reactions, as a rule of thumb Daoist techniques are meant to be taught face-to-face. Certainly many meditation instructions have made their way into publicly-available writing over the centuries, but not in their entirety. It is impossible for Daoist teachings to be transmitted in their entirety through writing, in part because students need to be able to ask teachers questions which will invariably arise, because each practitioner is different in countless ways. 

[Toni]

Thanks Walker, fantastic response. I do agree it is important to have refreshing and dreamless sleep. So I really think this technique is not optimal for beginners. Probably an error from the teacher, who i don't deem very serious. She was also very eager on receiving her money after the class. Although this seems to be a generic property of qigong teachers here in Europe. All i know are like that