Reflections on the aspiring spiritual teacher/author Steve Gray aka Starjumper

[C T]

Perhaps the Law of Universal Energy Response has been set in motion,

which means this thread had to happen. But I think its okay.

Thusly, it began, thusly it wanes. 

Expressions of intent, yay or nay, sustains that energy.

Just knowing that is awareness. 

For me, at least. 

[silent thunder]

and this thread will only persist as long as we continue to notice it and prop it up and maintain its inertia with our participation... which I for one, steadfastly refuse to be part of...

 

oh shit...

 

um...  hmm.

 

[qofq]

I think this is an appropriate response @Walker.  

 

Very clear.  Very sincere.  And helpful to those who might not know any better. 

 

Thanks.

[Aetherous]

Spiritual teachers are held to a higher standard (they must be), and really any teachers in the marketplace will get reviewed and receive criticism. It's good, if the teacher is also a forum member, to stay within the bounds of how forum members treat each other. On the other hand, it would be wrong for the forum to permit teachers to advertise their products here, but not let other forum members review them due to that person being a member. So - that's all a tightrope walk between following forum rules, respecting others, yet also upholding the truth and speaking honestly about the persona or material.

It's important that the reviewing and criticism happens. We beginners and seekers should look for teachers of the highest nobility, so as to have a better example to follow, and not get trapped along the way. Often, as beginners and seekers, we don't even understand what a noble person looks or behaves like, and have all sorts of false ideas due to our lack of life experience; so it can be good to read the reviews of others and see what people are thinking. Maybe they're wrong, too, but at least we gain from their life experience and can think more clearly as a result.

Also, are the teachers being criticized (not just here, but any time it happens) really all that bad? There are much worse things a spiritual teacher can do...which we know from the various destructive cults, and guru phenomena. Some who put themselves up as gurus really just have problems that they take out on unaware students through various forms of abuse. It can truly be bad, with suicides, rape, etc. So there are varying degrees of being imperfect.

 

It's good to promote a culture at this forum which is pro-individualism (considering teachers as advisers, thinking rationally for oneself), and anti-mindless follower (for instance, not being abused and writing it off as crazy wisdom). Criticism of teachers helps foster that healthier mindset.

 

I don't think any teacher is perfect, since we're all human beings. Sometimes the more power one has (in terms of being admired and respected by the masses, or just having lots of followers), the more temptation there is to abuse that power in private.
 

"Nearly all men can stand adversity, but if you want to test a man's character, give him power." - Abraham Lincoln

 

So, seeing as how we're all imperfect...I think it's okay that some of us teach. It just means we'll be held to a higher standard when teaching. Someone once told me, when you are the teacher, people will attack you to try and test you, similar to little pups nipping at the alpha dog. That's just the way it is for those who teach.

It's good for more material to be out there. We live in the information age, where there is so much info that it's actually a hindrance to us...but in terms of various practices, philosophies, and methods, I think it's important for future generations that we document them thoroughly, so that they won't be lost to time. It's up to us to preserve the lineages of today, if we are part of them. For oral traditions, that means teaching others and gaining a few good students who will pass it down to a few good students each, etc.

 

So to summarize my rambling post: we're all imperfect. If we have something to teach, we should, despite our imperfections (although the person who stops trying to be better has become a kind of monster). We will be criticized, and that has its good purposes, and is just something a teacher has to deal with. There are truly bad teachers out there who need to be outed, and whose followers need to be unbrainwashed. Forum member teachers can't be insulted, but should still be criticized in terms of their persona and their teachings.

[Spotless]

I only read the first complete page in this topic and without any comment on Steve or specifically on either side of regard for him - the original post is excellent.

 

It reminds me of the issue brought up in the movie The Karate Kid and the difference of a teaching style / approach vs another and the effect on the kids - while it was nice to read some of the posts that said that "we can each take what we will from our different teachers whether good or bad it does not really matter" - this falls flat in the face of what I have seen.

 

Students are very heavily effected by the teachers in very subtle ways and rarely are immune to a great many of the effects teachings inculcate unknowingly in them. Teachings often create walls - cross or block thresholds of insight - regard or completely skip and disregard humility - blunt force past the most precious insights and may entirely blow away extreme subtleties from ones presence.

 

Teachings may inculcate impossible perfect perfection - total regard for the little things and a belief in ones understanding of the cart far before the horse - or the other way around - teach the larger perspective and an assumed superiority with a "skip to the good stuff" and a bashing of the "mamby pamby blithering idiots" - These are both the rabbits way - a bit like the atheist and the fundamentalist - they are the same.

 

The younger the student the easier to inculcate VERY poor habits - false pointings - detours and hidden trauma.

 

EVERYONE thinks they are immune - and with one hand in your back pocket the blind lead the blind all day long.

 

The original post was germane to the Dao Bums in the most basic and visceral level:

Time and again we make assumptions based on our own identifications about those we know nothing what-so-ever about.

We always assume we are not caught up in a group of Siddhis and mind loops that have mesmerized us.

We "know" we are still in full practice and have not fallen asleep to "our accomplishments" - though we may long ago have succumbed to our favorite trances about our various identified "selves" and have gone quietly into the night of waking sleep.

 

Swear words and coarseness is NOT a sign one is any more alive than meekness coming from another is evidence that they are a fool or an idiot - or a wimp.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Pilgrim]

Well said,  let it end.

[Nungali]

On 04/07/2019 at 11:52 AM, Pilgrim said:

Looks beautiful to me like artwork caught in motion. Thanks for sharing,  the picture has a very nice feel about it.

 

Note angle of front raised lower leg .

[Nungali]

On 05/07/2019 at 12:14 AM, Starjumper said:

 

That's the idea, ya'll please stay away in droves.  Thank you for your kind attention in this manner.  BTW, I didn't read any posts longer than one sentence.

 

You know what's funny, before I took the vacation from here to write the book, I never told anyone I was a master or of my abilities and I had lots of weenies yelling and cussing at me that I wasn't a master.  YAHAhahahaha, morons.  Maybe they saw something they hated - in the mirror.

 

Well, I'm not a master, so stick it in your ear.

 

Now it's seems to be a bit milder, maybe because I don't engage so much with immature idiots.

 

But you got the message, stay far far away.  Oops, earthquake, bye.

 

 

  

 

 

Go away   !

 

 

I dont want a student .

 

 

I am not a master !

 

 

 

Whoops    .... earthquake happening .

 

 

 

  

 

 

 

(  When  Don Genaro        Starjumper  shits   -  the mountains  rumble      .   <  and  other shamen present giggle  >    .  )

[Nungali]

.....

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited July 6, 2019 by Nungali

[Starjumper]

I just read through the posts on this thread and I see it isn't so bad after all.  I thank all of those who are awake for the good words and reasonableness.  Have a wonderful day.  May the Force be with you!

[Walker]

Hah! Damn skippy it wasn't so bad. Thank you for taking the time to read this and give it some thought.

 

I went to the beach for a week and when I came back decided not to write anything in response to what Aetherous and Spotless wrote, lest I be accused of not letting sleeping dogs lie. But since the dog already went and stood up without me poking at it, might as well take a moment to thank you both for taking the time to write those heartfelt posts and helping flesh out the most important points in this thread (which, though "inspired" by my interaction with Steve, is really about the responsibilities we all potentially bear). 

 

Anyway, may the Force be with everybody...

[Starjumper]

Good, I'm glad you recovered from my inflammatory assault.  What beach did you go to?  I need to go to a beach, I'm supposed to go four times a year, and haven't been for a couple of years, up here it is cold, cloudy, misty.  Next comes the sunny hot season with ferocious winds.

[Nungali]

3 hours ago, Starjumper said:

Good, I'm glad you recovered from my inflammatory assault.  What beach did you go to?  I need to go to a beach, I'm supposed to go four times a year, and haven't been for a couple of years, up here it is cold, cloudy, misty.  Next comes the sunny hot season with ferocious winds.

 

That adds up to  a solid month at the beach .      

 

 

..... thats what happened at the school next door ; Kids  are supposed to have swimming one afternoon a week, but they didnt do that for most of the year. There was a teacher shortage and they got around that by saying they had to catch up and go swimming every afternoon for the rest of the year . So that was my first job there ; taking year 10  kids down the river every afternoon to play in the  rainforest swimming holes .....  @   $20 an hour    

 

Here, its closed in, a steep sided valley,  moisture, sauna like in summer .... getting  down the beach and looking out to and feeling the immense expanse of the Pacific Ocean  is certainly healing and balancing  !

 

Last time I had to go to 'little city' out on the coast, I stopped at Sawtell Point to see if I could see any whales  - this is a good time of year for it .

 

A beautiful  crystal clear crisp day , brilliant deep blue sky,  clear sparkling water  ....  then  a sort of big rough circular patch ... spreading , boiling turbulence ...... there they are !  Then a huge ' geyser' and breech , then another and another , a whole bunch are surfacing, breeching, tail slapping . Magnificent creatures .   Then they all go under   and do the same a bit further along , then  again under .

 

Then along comes a pod of dolphins , so I watch them for a while .  

 

Magnificent  ! 

 

Go for it man  !

 

 

 

[Walker]

No idea what it's called. A good old boy from Geowgia with a broken leg and a Luke Skywalker haircut (speaking of the force) pointed down the road and said, "if you want a perfect beach, walk that way." The water was so warm that my balls didn't even flinch the moment I waded in. Definitely not a place to get your Wim Hof on but good for everything else.