Question about breath retention

[voidisyinyang]

2 hours ago, C T said:

Where the content appears crude and loud, often it dampens interest regardless if you were Jesus or Vishnu incarnate. 

Sounds like you've read the excellent book Suns of God?

 

 

 

 

[Cheshire Cat]

17 hours ago, voidisyinyang said:

yeah so just so you know - the breath retention AFTER EXHALE is to be more like 1 to 2 minutes or longer than 2 minutes!

 

I don't think that we can consider duration as an indicator of the relative importance of single steps to the efficacy of the entire method. 

By actually trying the WHM breathing pattern, you could understand that "something" happens during this brief retention after the inhale that doesn't occur otherwise. I can't say what it is because I don't know, but it feels good and sort of spiritual. 

 

17 hours ago, voidisyinyang said:

But you seem fixated rather on some purified sutta reading or something, rather than what Master Nan is teaching.

 

The video that I posted have Master Nan teaching to hold after inhalation, but basically to focus attention on every pauses in the breathing process. He taught not to use force, but to use a little force at the beginning. 

One doesn't need some special skill. Play the video, activate English subtitles and go to minute 2,23 and pause when needed. 

 

 

"Don't force it. [...] In between the IN and OUT breath. OUT, IN, CEASE. As soon as you fix your awareness on that moment, your CHI will feel like that it flows freely [...[

 

17 hours ago, voidisyinyang said:

Yeah half quoting sentences to try to imply they say something else

 

I'm not that good at implying things. In my personal experience of the practice of breathing meditation with breath retention, I noticed that at times it was very easy to get angry for insignificant matters. 

 

[voidisyinyang]

2 minutes ago, Cheshire Cat said:

 

I don't think that we can consider duration as an indicator of the relative importance of single steps to the efficacy of the entire method. 

By actually trying the WHM breathing pattern, you could understand that "something" happens during this brief retention after the inhale that doesn't occur otherwise. I can't say what it is because I don't know, but it feels good and sort of spiritual. 

 

 

The video that I posted have Master Nan teaching to hold after inhalation, but basically to focus attention on every pauses in the breathing process. He taught not to use force, but to use a little force at the beginning. 

One doesn't need some special skill. Play the video, activate English subtitles and go to minute 2,23 and pause when needed. 

 

 

"Don't force it. [...] In between the IN and OUT breath. OUT, IN, CEASE. As soon as you fix your awareness on that moment, your CHI will feel like that it flows freely [...[

 

 

I'm not that good at implying things. In my personal experience of the practice of breathing meditation with breath retention, I noticed that at times it was very easy to get angry for insignificant matters. 

 

 

OK I already cited the science stating that retaining breath AFTER EXHALE activates the PARAsympathetic nervous system - which is deep relaxation.

 

So this is how it works - I cite the science studies on Wim Hof in my training manual - the deep breathing is to physically activate the adrenal medullae which then DOUBLES the adrenaline levels (same as bungee jumping for the first time). This causes Parasympathetic Rebound - which is also called the Relaxation Effect. So by pushing the sympathetic nervous system to the EXTREME - then you change the blood pH to be alkaline enough so then when you do hold the breath AFTER EXHALE - this does not activate the "gasp reflex" (which relies on blood acidity to kick in). That is the secret of why a person is able to retain the breath for so long - AFTER the deep breathing AND via the parasympathetic nervous system (which is alkaline).

 

As for seeing lights while holding the breath - this is in part due to the surge of oxygen into the brain, again from holding the breath AFTER EXHALE. So - the breath retention builds up with each cycle - so that it is say 1 minute at first and longer than 2 minutes after awhile. As the qi builds up then the actual physical breathing lessens due to the increased parasympathetic nervous system activation. So the right side vagus nerve goes to the right side of the heart - which then slows the heart beat down along with the respiration. This means in deep meditation you can essentially stop the heart - and also breathing. It is so slow that it is not noticeable and technically stopped. This is how advanced yogis can be buried underground or go underwater for long times and even can stop their heart beats.

 

So it's not just breath retention but meditation is based on cardio-respiratory synchronization. What science can not study very easily is the biophoton laser synchronization as spirit holographic signals - virtual information signals from the future. Some quantum biologists have studied this a bit - this is how deep healing mysteries like telekinesis and teleportation of matter are enabled - along with precognition and bilocation, etc. Yang shen bodies, etc.

 

So the immortal breathing or foetus breathing is the goal indeed but the tummo foundation at first does rely on force being used - this is why Taoist Yoga calls the method "Quick Fire" breathing and as the book Taoist Yoga states ONLY Quick Fire breathing has the power to reverse the lower yin qi emotional blockages - to then sublimate and purify the yin qi blockages back into yuan qi energy.

 

 

 

 

[Cheshire Cat]

17 hours ago, voidisyinyang said:

 

OK I already cited the science stating that retaining breath AFTER EXHALE activates the PARAsympathetic nervous system - which is deep relaxation.

 

There is a number of vagal maneuvers which activate the parasympathetic nervous system and slow down the heart and promote relaxation with other things. For example, even the act of urination can provoke sudden collapse in certain subjects because it activates the vagus nerve. 

 

Regarding the feats of breath retention, they can be achieved with greater efficacy by breathing pure O2 as a preparation for diving (record is about 20 minutes, if I remember correctly) . The deep fast breathing produce a similar effect, but with more modest results. 

 

I don't think that those things hold any particular importance in meditation solely for the fact that they can be combined to achieve some states of relaxation. 

 

17 hours ago, voidisyinyang said:

So it's not just breath retention but meditation is based on cardio-respiratory synchronization

 

I believe that meditation isn't strictly based on cardio-respiratory synchronization, but on brain rhythmic functions. Therefore, one can - for example--meditate with a mantra without paying attention to the breath. 

[freeform]

Just to interject with the Daoist approach to breathing...

 

Most authentic systems will strongly emphasise not to make any contrived changes to your ‘natural breathing’. 

 

Actually the changes come about from ‘Ting’ - absorptive awareness of the breathing process. If you practice it, you’ll notice that all the breathing ‘methods’ spontaneously appear at certain stages by themselves - this even includes reverse breathing, martial fire breathing, embryonic breathing and breath cessation.

 

Any contrivance will create a split in your ‘breath’ and ‘mind’ and the proper conditions and qualities will not be produced - but just imitated. 

[joeblast]

4 hours ago, Cheshire Cat said:

I believe that meditation isn't strictly based on cardio-respiratory synchronization, but on brain rhythmic functions.

An interesting thing about when I added upper dantien techs is that signposts came at shorter breath durations, e.g. things that used to happen at 50, 55 second averages would happen at 40 second averages.  I guess that's one benefit of having wasted and re-created significant potentials a bunch of times, is the data on how things were different as my techs & mindbodystate were a little different each time.  It made me confident in my steps to create the potentials at minimum, lol.  But whoooo likes to do things the rote way, "its too contrived" and "its not relaxing enough" (at first) and whatever other excuses I've heard over the years

[freeform]

7 hours ago, joeblast said:

"its not relaxing enough"

 

Contrary to popular belief, the ‘real stuff’ is rarely relaxing

 

And often becomes less relaxing as you progress...

 

eg. I have to sit on a doubled up bath mat, incase the martial fire breathing starts - to soak up all the sweat.

 

That and I have to be careful around the cats - they are not fans of yang Qi!

[joeblast]

hehe, I noticed that about cats too...very quickly they say "not comfy" and get away

[voidisyinyang]

On 7/22/2019 at 1:48 AM, Cheshire Cat said:

 

There is a number of vagal maneuvers which activate the parasympathetic nervous system and slow down the heart and promote relaxation with other things. For example, even the act of urination can provoke sudden collapse in certain subjects because it activates the vagus nerve. 

Quote

 

Micturition (or post-micturition) syncope is fainting during or, more commonly, immediately after urination due to a severe drop in blood pressure. Micturition syncope is most common in older men and usually occurs at night after a deep sleep.

 

 

 

 

Quote

 

Regarding the feats of breath retention, they can be achieved with greater efficacy by breathing pure O2 as a preparation for diving (record is about 20 minutes, if I remember correctly) . The deep fast breathing produce a similar effect, but with more modest results. 

Wim Hof holds 26 world records - not sure about underwater breathing but he holds it for underwater ICE breathing.

 

 

Quote

I don't think that those things hold any particular importance in meditation solely for the fact that they can be combined to achieve some states of relaxation. 

 

I'm sure you highly value your opinion. Good for you!!

 

Quote

 

I believe that meditation isn't strictly based on cardio-respiratory synchronization, but on brain rhythmic functions. Therefore, one can - for example--meditate with a mantra without paying attention to the breath. 

 

yeah the heart is undervalued - look into it.

Edited July 23, 2019 by voidisyinyang

[Cheshire Cat]

On 22/7/2019 at 1:48 PM, joeblast said:

But whoooo likes to do things the rote way, "its too contrived" and "its not relaxing enough" (at first) and whatever other excuses I've heard over the years

 

My main excuse is that I literally can't understand the descriptions of  the method that you're using for your meditations.  

Apart from a general idea on focus awareness on various respiratory muscles and functions to make breathing "deeper" (which - in my personal case and subjective experience- is one of the lesser effective meditation method I've ever tried), I've no idea of what it is, but I guess there's a rhythmic component to it. 

 

10 hours ago, voidisyinyang said:

yeah the heart is undervalued - look into it.

 

Have you heard of the I AM HEART meditation method of Puran and Suzanne Bair? They teach to combine heartbeat with breathing in different ways. 

 

10 hours ago, voidisyinyang said:

Micturition (or post-micturition) syncope

 

I quote from Wikipedia 

 

When one strains to increase the flow of urine, it stimulates the vagus nerve(usually more pronounced in elderly men with large prostates). The vagus nerve stimulus causes slowing down of the heart (bradycardia) and a drop in blood pressure. The heart cannot perform effectively as a pump because insufficient blood comes to it. 

[joeblast]

1 hour ago, Cheshire Cat said:

 

My main excuse is that I literally can't understand the descriptions of  the method that you're using for your meditations.  

Apart from a general idea on focus awareness on various respiratory muscles and functions to make breathing "deeper" (which - in my personal case and subjective experience- is one of the lesser effective meditation method I've ever tried), I've no idea of what it is, but I guess there's a rhythmic component to it.

That's perhaps as much my fault though.  What I describe really is anapanasati, just in different words that include the anatomical structures - because the streamlining, harmonization, and efficiency increases are indeed significant - but they need attention and some work in order for those gains to be realized.  So in a sense I'm restating anapanasati in modern terms that attempt to include emphasis on the things that will help one achieve that very high efficiency state that leads to samhadi.  And make it happen as a matter of regularity (as an emphasis!) not just as a glimpse here and there because things happened to accidentally "line up."   As we all know, if the conditions for samhadi arent fulfilled, then samhadi aint happenin.

 

"Making the breath deeper/longer" is not a main thrust, but a byproduct of proper practice.  One should want to trend his sessions in that direction, because forcing deeper or longer (to an appreciable extent) during a session merely gets one away from maximal efficiency.  But to not even try to make them longer at all is just as silly as ramming one's head into the wall - testing the edges are often where areas of improvement reveal themselves.  How does one troubleshoot their own body and get past limitations that present themselves?  A deeper more fundamental understanding happens through the troubleshooting.  What I'm writing tries to sum up all the troubleshooting in the body I had to do to achieve what I did.  Things like understanding that the placement of the olfactory nerve endings allow you to deny it stimulation when you breathe in a certain fashion and it was such a big component that I didnt hear from any master or read in any book, why?  The old texts described effects or ways to know certain achievement was made (e.g. unmoving feather in front of the nose) but they really werent being explicit as a matter of course to begin with, the old stuff is flowery code - its only now in this technogeek era that weirdoes like me are trying to dissect this stuff to the planck level

 

To the extent there's a rhythmic component to it...only insofar as there is harmonic periodicity in the breath structures and they roll seamlessly into one another...which after a while ends up obliterating any sense of rhythmn at all when one truly experiences the difference between breathing and sitting there respirating a bit in an extremely high efficiency state - it was a bit strange the first time I had the notion occur that I couldnt tell if I was on an in breath or an out breath at the time (that's way before being able to feel thoughtform energy form off the side of the niwan like a carbonated bubble in a glass of beer....or being able to absorb it back into the niwan like it was a balloon in my hand where I stopped squeezing it...but being able to do these strange things is what led me to also be able to sit for a 2+ hour moment and have it literally feel like I just sat there for a pleasant minute...time passes strangely in samhadi...)

 

Part of troubleshooting becomes figuring out what the most perfect breath is that one can achieve for his given level of attainment, so that aspect is learning timings of the muscles.  I found that the more focused the awareness stayed on feeling out the range and extent of the structures and making their motions as harmonious as possible - it helped lessen the available potentials for thoughtform energy to happen.  I realized as I progressed that being able to tame thoughtform energy is every bit as important as streamlining the breath structures, but the relationship is a bit more intimate than that - every bit of sense contributes to the energy equation.  Idle energy manifests as thoughtform energy, and whenever enough of it amasses, a cascade of energy leaps from the midbrain up into higher centers and that's...just how it winds up happening.  Thoughtform energy stops samhadi, so this is an issue that must also be focused on in order to regularly attain samhadi. 

 

What I've attempted to do with my writing is to establish that the sensate inputs which form neurological potentials that manifest themselves as thoughtform energy are intimately linked (which is what the Anapanasati Sutti already told us, hey!) and by attacking this issue directly, then a lot of superfluous garbage can be tossed aside and the practitioner can have a more clear understanding of approaching samhadi.  The approach begins with the fundamentals of the breath and its neurological outflows - and streamlining all of it until super high efficiency is realized.

 

So its really by intimately engaging the awareness and keeping that awareness that the real progress towards samhadi is made - but of course the vehicle must also be streamlined first, which winds up being a great way to segue into the mind game aspect of meditation.  Its often just way too noisy to jump straight into the mind game, that's futile for most people.  But at some point after the work is done, then the awareness game can be played and focused on - and once stabilized - by then one should be able to have samhadi every evening.  (When that happens every evening...hehehe I'm excited and happy when its time to go sit )

[voidisyinyang]

2 hours ago, Cheshire Cat said:

 

My main excuse is that I literally can't understand the descriptions of  the method that you're using for your meditations.  

Apart from a general idea on focus awareness on various respiratory muscles and functions to make breathing "deeper" (which - in my personal case and subjective experience- is one of the lesser effective meditation method I've ever tried), I've no idea of what it is, but I guess there's a rhythmic component to it. 

 

 

Have you heard of the I AM HEART meditation method of Puran and Suzanne Bair? They teach to combine heartbeat with breathing in different ways. 

 

 

I quote from Wikipedia 

 

When one strains to increase the flow of urine, it stimulates the vagus nerve(usually more pronounced in elderly men with large prostates). The vagus nerve stimulus causes slowing down of the heart (bradycardia) and a drop in blood pressure. The heart cannot perform effectively as a pump because insufficient blood comes to it. 

 

The rhythm component is based on the Sun and Moon - so during the full moon then the pineal gland is naturally 10 times stronger in qi energy - the pineal gland is called where the cosmic Yuan Qi emanates. So the source of the Sun is coherent harmonic energy - this is called "negentropy" in physics - also called the Law of PHase Harmony from Louis de Broglie (the founder of relativistic quantum physics).

 

So then when immortal breathing or foetus breathing kicks in - then the centers of the hands and feet PULSATE with qi - or "breathe" with qi - and also the top of the skull gets soft - the fontanelle opens up like a baby - and the top of the skull then PULSATES or breathes with qi.

 

So at that stage - this is called Shen-Qi because you visualize the shen going in one direction while the Qi goes in the other direction. But in fact the Qi is guiding the Shen. Think of the Qi as a Horse in a River and the Chariot is the mind as Shen that is being guided through the water by the Horse - and the water is the materialistic medium - the jing.  So then new jing is created from the Qi which is actually a cosmic spacetime vortex from the Future - this is called the "virtual information field" by qigong master Yan Xin or the "Golden Key" as "superluminal matter" by qigong master Zhang Hongbao.

 

So then the "real" lower dan tien - is directly behind the navel - only after the yin qi has filled up the intestines area - the mingmen. So then once the heart opens - this is called the Big Accumulator by Gurdjieff - and the "secret pinhole" to the Cosmic Prana or Ether by Ramana Maharshi. It's the RIGHT side of the heart - as the right side vagus nerve goes to the right side of the heart.

 

 

[Cheshire Cat]

On 24/7/2019 at 2:16 PM, joeblast said:

What I describe really is anapanasati, just in different words that include the anatomical structures - because the streamlining, harmonization, and efficiency increases are indeed significant - but they need attention and some work in order for those gains to be realized.  So in a sense I'm restating anapanasati in modern terms that attempt to include emphasis on the things that will help one achieve that very high efficiency state that leads to samhadi.  And make it happen as a matter of regularity (as an emphasis!) not just as a glimpse here and there because things happened to accidentally "line up."   As we all know, if the conditions for samhadi arent fulfilled, then samhadi aint happenin.

 

I'm glad that your meditation is going in a positive direction and although I'm not sure to understand completely your terminology, I feel that this might actually be an improvement of the actual anapanasati.

It just doesn't work that good for me because I'm used to faster rhytms than breathing to get samadhi, but I feel that it's an excellent method. I would be interested to know about its effects on health and longevity.

Also, I'm not sure about what a thoughtform is because when I experience thoughts in meditation, I can't locate them in my body.

 

On 24/7/2019 at 2:32 PM, voidisyinyang said:

So at that stage - this is called Shen-Qi because you visualize the shen going in one direction while the Qi goes in the other direction. But in fact the Qi is guiding the Shen. Think of the Qi as a Horse in a River and the Chariot is the mind as Shen that is being guided through the water by the Horse - and the water is the materialistic medium - the jing.  So then new jing is created from the Qi which is actually a cosmic spacetime vortex from the Future - this is called the "virtual information field" by qigong master Yan Xin or the "Golden Key" as "superluminal matter" by qigong master Zhang Hongbao.

 

This seems to be quite an exercise in visualization.

The rhytmic component is the repetition of the same visualizations over and over.

[joeblast]

3 minutes ago, Cheshire Cat said:

 

I'm glad that your meditation is going in a positive direction and although I'm not sure to understand completely your terminology, I feel that this might actually be an improvement of the actual anapanasati.

It just doesn't work that good for me because I'm used to faster rhytms than breathing to get samadhi, but I feel that it's an excellent method. I would be interested to know about its effects on health and longevity.

Also, I'm not sure about what a thoughtform is because when I experience thoughts in meditation, I can't locate them in my body.

Well, I used to have seasonal allergies that would whack me at least twice a year, or whenever there was a significant temp swing like with this heatwave that just passed by, hot to cold, that used to clog me up all the time.  Had a bad case of otitis media (middle ear infection) when I was a kid, so my eustachian tubes have always been a bit messed up. 

 

But as of 2007, I have not had a cold or gotten sick - the way the energy goes, when the niwan gets energized it makes all of those slow fire phenomena happen as described in taoist yoga, the sinuses empty, salivation, tears...so things dont hang around long enough to stagnate into sickness   (I've been able to keep all of that (antisick) going with no issues even though I have not kept the ability to attain samhadi every day constant...the latter requires significantly more work to upkeep.  Hit that altitude 8, 10, a dozen times...but keeping it going is a sonofabich and makes me understand why monks move out of society.)

 

There's also a significant qi pressure that happens, which also helps health & longevity...but that's kinda tough to describe and its like a general holistic overall thing.

 

 

Thoughtform = a thought...usually I posit it as thoughtform-energy, which really is (begins as) a remainder of energy that is unresolved (has 'nowhere else to go') because of inefficient process -  and by streamlining all of the things I described, it lessens the energy remainder - only once samhadi is well stabilized and happening every day, does the mind really reach that calm emptiness where no random thoughts are generated.  (I only know this is possible because I achieved it, for the times I was that samhadi-stable.  So anyone who talks like the mind will just always ramble and there's nothing you can do about it, they just didnt make the attainment and werent taught by anyone who made it either )

 

Faster works better....well, yes, "speeds in the right range" work better...try drawing a bath and lean back in it, let the water against your eardrums, and then use the things I wrote to figure out how to breathe silently with everyone being underwater-loud   It may be a bit weird to carry that to sitting, but that's the way!

[voidisyinyang]

1 hour ago, Cheshire Cat said:

This seems to be quite an exercise in visualization.

 

It's actually an "exorcise" in visualization. The Emptiness can not be seen but can be listened to.

 

1 hour ago, Cheshire Cat said:

The rhytmic component is the repetition of the same visualizations over and over.

Yes this is a Western projection on the idea of repetition. As Yogananda stated, reality is "everfresh, evernew." There really is no repetition due to noncommutative phase as the foundation of reality or what science also calls "time-frequency uncertainty" or "Fourier Uncertainty." So westerners are brainwashed at an early age to think of time as a symmetric geometric wavelength but you can not SEE time. For example Plato erroneously stated, "Time is the Image of Eternity" - this is a lie against Pythagoras stating "All is Number AND Harmony." So in Daoism it is called the highest note that can not be heard. Science has proven that the highest note we hear externally - when focused on internally then resonates the WHOLE brain as ultrasound. This ultrasound resonates the microtubules with 3000 times greater electromagnetic amplitude than any other frequency. That microtubule resonance is then quantum coherence since a microtubule is six times bigger than a tubulin. So what is happening is that there is a superluminal phase coherence between the two ears. I corresponded with physics professor Manfred Euler about this - he calls the two ears then a "double slit experiment" based on acoustic interferometry.

So then what is the "period" or time rhythm of the FUTURE? It's called eternal logical inference or eternal listening aka "No ONE is listening." As the Pythagoreans states - "one is NOT a number" or there is no capstone to the pyramid - rather the Tetrad of 2:3:4 is an eternal resonance of yin-yang. In India this is the "three gunas."  So we inherently can not visualize the 5th dimension. As Ramana Maharshi stated - the Self is NOT light. He called it Mouna Samadhi -the highest level of samadhi - SILENCE samadhi.

 

So Westerners favor vision over listening but our original forest culture is based on listening as our primary perception. We can listen as superluminal phase coherence energy - the Yuan Qi energy.

[Cheshire Cat]

3 hours ago, voidisyinyang said:

Yes this is a Western projection on the idea of repetition. As Yogananda stated, reality is "everfresh, evernew." There really is no repetition due to noncommutative phase as the foundation of reality or what science also calls "time-frequency uncertainty" or "Fourier Uncertainty." So westerners are brainwashed at an early age to think of time as a symmetric geometric wavelength but you can not SEE time.

 

It's possible that according to your philosophy reality is everfresh, evernew and that there's no repetition ... but your brain couldn't care less. The fact that you can tap the tempo of a metronome almost spontaneously... while a monkey could do that only after extensive trainings, is a clue. 

Also, consider how shamans use rhythm to alter their consciousness... Or think about the rhythmic shaking of bushmen healers. 

 

Human brains react very peculiarly to rhythms: try to Google "rhythm neuroscience"  and you may find very interesting articles. 

 

4 hours ago, joeblast said:

Faster works better....well, yes, "speeds in the right range" work better...try drawing a bath and lean back in it, let the water against your eardrums, and then use the things I wrote to figure out how to breathe silently with everyone being underwater-loud   It may be a bit weird to carry that to sitting, but that's the way!

 

This is a very interesting  exercise 

[voidisyinyang]

6 hours ago, Cheshire Cat said:

 

It's possible that according to your philosophy reality is everfresh, evernew and that there's no repetition ... but your brain couldn't care less. The fact that you can tap the tempo of a metronome almost spontaneously... while a monkey could do that only after extensive trainings, is a clue. 

Also, consider how shamans use rhythm to alter their consciousness... Or think about the rhythmic shaking of bushmen healers. 

 

Human brains react very peculiarly to rhythms: try to Google "rhythm neuroscience"  and you may find very interesting articles. 

 

 

This is a very interesting  exercise 

 

I have done quite a bit of research on this topic. For example the left hand taps the "regular" metronome beat because the left side of the brain keeps timing via the cerebellum. The right side of the brain is for frequency. So this is why Chunyi Lin has people sing a melody for the "Om Mani Padme Hum" mantra (or in the Tibetan Chinese version it's spelled differently than the Sanskrit).

 

So rhythm and melody are not the same as noncommutative phase.  The topic of noncommutative phase is not acknowledged or recognized except only by a few scientists. But quantum physics professor Basil J. Hiley responded to me that yes he was aware that time-frequency is noncommutative.

 

So most people have heard of quantum entanglement for example but Professor Hiley emphasizes that most quantum physicists still do not realize that the foundation of reality is nonlocal. So at "zero" time (infinite frequency) there is ALWAYS-already - (imagine that in big red font) - a noncommutative phase.

 

In music theory - this is explained fairly simply. So in fact music theory is the origin of WEstern math. So we align geometry as a "one to one" correspondence with number. And this is based on symmetry. But in fact that is not the accurate model of reality! So a good overview of "standard" Western math is by math professor Ian Stewart - his book "Why Beauty is Truth: A History of Symmetry" (I've corresponded with Stewart as well). But again this is NOT the case for "noncommutative phase."

 

In fact ONLY Fields Medal math professor Alain Connes acknowledges that music - the empirical truth of music - is based on noncommutative phase. Well it is "mentioned" in a couple other places. But a Fields Medal is harder to get than a Nobel Prize. So as I mentioned - I corresponded with Nobel physicist Brian Josephson - and he practices qigong at Cambridge, as he told me. So then - at first he said he didn't know enough about music theory to comment on my research (even though he had previously co-authored a paper on music and reality). OK then he asked me about his own music compositions - and that was nice of him to do. So over the years we kept corresponding. He thanked me for sending him a quote that referred to his research in the context of meditation - and.... so then in the end he stated that I did not understand music theory! But - that was the last of our correspondence except I think I did have an impact. Now he is studying noncommutative phase logic of math professor Louis Kauffman who had worked with Eddie Oshins at SLAC. Oshins taught Wing Chun and Oshins realized the secret of Daoist Neigong was Noncommutative phase logic!

 

So only Oshins made that same discovery that I had realized through music theory - I figured SOMEONE else MUST have made this discovery - and sure enough it was Oshins.  So one of the experiments Oshins wanted to do was a study of noncommutative phase in the brain. I have corresponded with Stuart Hameroff also - this is something he is studying and in fact his latest conference is completely focused on noncommutative phase with - what's his name? In Switzerland - someone focused on noncommutative phase and meditation and quantum physics. He doesn't quite do the same type of analysis.

 

Anyway I'll look that up - but the point being that if you study NONwestern rhythm - a good one who did this is John Chernoff - he had a book published by University of Chicago on his African Drumming training. I cite that in my master's thesis on "sound-current nondualism" - so Chernoff emphasized how the secret is the silence between the sound and rhythm. And also the 2/3 syncopated rhythm is the foundation and this led to noncommutative tuning.

 

So essentially if C is 1 - and the octave is 2 as the same pitch of C but then G is 3 as the Perfect Fifth (called Yang in Daoism) and then F as the subharmonic is also 3 but as 2/3. So suddenly on this basic level you have noncommutative phase - you have the Yang Qi as the Yuan Qi with F=3=G at the same time. This was COVERED UP as the Foundation of the Greek Miracle (western science) so that Archytas could create logarithmic equal-tempered tuning - then promoted by Plato. So this is why no one even NOTICES this secret. It is at once very simple yet at the same time very radical.

 

Ok so what I forgot to mention is that Dr. Andrija Puharich realized how the subharmonic of the ultrasound brain resonance then creates a strong increase in amplitude energy as a reverse time phase coherence at around 8 hertz. This is why the "shaking of the legs" with the trance drumming - being most common at 7 to 9 beats per second (Neher) - so this activates the Yuan Qi as the Heart right side vagus nerve energy - and is also the reverse time magnetic moment subharmonic of the ultrasound frequency meditation.

 

 

Edited July 26, 2019 by voidisyinyang

[Cheshire Cat]

8 hours ago, voidisyinyang said:

So rhythm and melody are not the same as noncommutative phase.  The topic of noncommutative phase is not acknowledged or recognized except only by a few scientists. But quantum physics professor Basil J. Hiley responded to me that yes he was aware that time-frequency is noncommutative.

 

I agree that rhythm and melody are not strictly the same, but still the repetition of the same melody over and over constitutes a rhythm. You can think for example, of the popular mantra Hare Krishna: devotees are often fascinated by how easily this mantra can be held within the mind and they attribute some supernatural power to it. This mantra has rhythmic qualities of simmetry that the human brain respond to... and - this is more esoteric- it confers a certain power to human thought: India is full of stories of sadhus, gods and demigods who achieved supernatural power with the repetition of secret mantras. 

 

As for melody itself, I believe that - in some inexplicable way- it comes directly from some basic rhythm. It's born with simmetry and it has repetitive components. It just appears in consciousness. 

When I run in the forest, I meditate on the rhythm produced by the regularity of my steps: at first I have the disappearance of extraneous thoughts, but later some mysterious spontaneous melody comes to my hears and it substitutes the raw rhythm I was focusing on. There are no intentions of changing a rhythm for a melody: it happens spontaneously and it retains the repetitive quality of a sublimated rhythm. 

 

I believe that Beethoven received a lot of melodies with a similar exercise of meditation on rhythm while walking. 

 

When a melody is born out of a mental rhythm, the human brain loves it immediately: think again about the popular Beethoven melodies "Fur Elise" or "Moonlight sonata". You love them from the first time. 

But I think that elaborate Rhythms can be applied to any sequence of sounds to transform them into melodies in the brain on the listener. 

 

Can skip the first 3 minutes 

 

 

I'm not talking about how reality works according to some model. This is just how the brain works in meditation: it responds to rhythms (mantras, breath, visualizations, etc...), it produces rhythms (circadian rhythm, sleep cycles, etc...) and when the rhythm is fast enough, there's the perception of emptiness.

The stability of one-pointedness is a fast rhythm: there's a tantric visualization trick to achieve stability and that is to imagine a point of light pulsating, flickering at a very fast rhythm. 

Edited July 26, 2019 by Cheshire Cat

[voidisyinyang]

8 hours ago, Cheshire Cat said:

 

I agree that rhythm and melody are not strictly the same, but still the repetition of the same melody over and over constitutes a rhythm. You can think for example, of the popular mantra Hare Krishna: devotees are often fascinated by how easily this mantra can be held within the mind and they attribute some supernatural power to it. This mantra has rhythmic qualities of simmetry that the human brain respond to... and - this is more esoteric- it confers a certain power to human thought: India is full of stories of sadhus, gods and demigods who achieved supernatural power with the repetition of secret mantras. 

 

As for melody itself, I believe that - in some inexplicable way- it comes directly from some basic rhythm. It's born with simmetry and it has repetitive components. It just appears in consciousness. 

When I run in the forest, I meditate on the rhythm produced by the regularity of my steps: at first I have the disappearance of extraneous thoughts, but later some mysterious spontaneous melody comes to my hears and it substitutes the raw rhythm I was focusing on. There are no intentions of changing a rhythm for a melody: it happens spontaneously and it retains the repetitive quality of a sublimated rhythm. 

 

I believe that Beethoven received a lot of melodies with a similar exercise of meditation on rhythm while walking. 

 

When a melody is born out of a mental rhythm, the human brain loves it immediately: think again about the popular Beethoven melodies "Fur Elise" or "Moonlight sonata". You love them from the first time. 

But I think that elaborate Rhythms can be applied to any sequence of sounds to transform them into melodies in the brain on the listener. 

 

Can skip the first 3 minutes 

 

 

I'm not talking about how reality works according to some model. This is just how the brain works in meditation: it responds to rhythms (mantras, breath, visualizations, etc...), it produces rhythms (circadian rhythm, sleep cycles, etc...) and when the rhythm is fast enough, there's the perception of emptiness.

The stability of one-pointedness is a fast rhythm: there's a tantric visualization trick to achieve stability and that is to imagine a point of light pulsating, flickering at a very fast rhythm. 

 

yes a good book on this is called "The Haunting Melody" by Theodore Reik - so rhythm being left brain dominant is tied to thinking as focus.

So for example Ramana Maharshi states to at first repeat, "I, I, I, I, I, I" in the mind but NOT as a Mantra - rather as logical inference. So Ramana Maharshi then states that mantras become just as a trance and so lose the focus of the logical inference - instead the mind becomes lazy.

But Ramana Maharshi also states to visualize light on the right side of the heart - as the "secret pinhole" into the Awareness of Reality - of the whole universe - what Mahayana Buddhism calls the 8th level of consciousness.

So if you study the book Taoist Yoga: alchemy and Immortality - it also states that the right side of the heart is the yang qi turning into Yuan Qi - again this is because of the right side vagus nerve from the Jing life force reproductive energy going to the right side of the heart. Ramana Maharshi also points out the need for the kundalini energy FIRST - in his 1947 edition of his book, "Who Am I?" - so that edition is not found online - so a lot of Westerners try to ignore the need for the celibacy kundalini.

So as Ramana Maharshi states - the breath is controlled by the mind but he also emphasizes there has to be celibacy and being vegetarian - so as to strengthen the mind by purifying the body - to increase the prana energy.

 

So what is really going on here? Ramana Maharshi calls this the "three in one unity" as the secret of the three gunas. The three gunas are the oldest philosophy of India and in fact they originate from music theory just as in Daoism. So the Sattva is the Octave as 1:2 and Raja is Yang Qi as 2:3 and Tamas is yin qi as 3:4.

 

So the key here is to realize that Original Sin is the Lunar kundalini energy - the right side vagus nerve - and is based on Synchronized yet also Syncopated rhythm - Sin=Syn as lunar female psychic energy - the Lung energy as metal as alchemy - the Po Soul.

 

So in other words - a mantra being repetitious is too stuck in the left brain as japa but with singing as melody then you get right brain dominance that will then activate the kundalini or jing to the right side of the heart.

 

So then to repeat the I-thought is actually the same as the source of the One not being a number - so you visualize light on the right side of the heart but you can not see the Self - you have to listen to it.

 

So to go back to the Haunting Melody book - what Theodore Reik realized then is that music as frequency is the bridge to our subconscious visions - so then we will get a melody in our head. Then if we listen to the melody and remember the words - those words are the message from our subconscious to ourselves - based on emotional intelligence.

 

So with the Mozart Effect - to have better visual memorization ability - the claim usually made is that it is due to gamma brain waves being better synchronized. But actually it is the slow middle movements of classical or baroque music that are 60 beats per minute - or 1 beat per second. This then synchronizes the HEART as the spirit cardio-respiration synchronization to create then a theta brain wave waking trance visualization state. I know this from personal experience as I memorized a Mozart sonata that I performed on piano but I also memorized Bach's Italian Concerto in F - that I also performed by memory on piano.

 

So in ancient times then the epic histories were SUNG as a kind of trance poetry using the Lyre. I call this the Liar of the Lyre - because for Western science to originate then the Lyre was literally "flipped" around by Philolaus - to then cover up the noncommutative phase origin of the time-frequency resonance, as the 5th dimension of reality.

 

For example in India - the word time as Kala also refers to Kali as the Cosmic Mother that both creates and destroys - so time is not linear as we see it in the WEst but rather time is a spiral that can be reversed from the future - as with Kundalini or in the West this was called Aeon (aeons in time) as the Ion or Aeon fluid - this literally referred to the cerebrospinal fluid that feeds the brain from the life force energy. So time was realized to be a subjective phenomenon that also enables visions - due to the celibacy training.

 

So then in deeper meditation you perceive external reality slowing down due to our internal state increasing - as we increase the frequency of the spirit light in the body due to purification. As I mentioned - the serotonin is blue light while the oxygen is red light. So we switch over from oxygen into pure qi energy via the serotonin - creating a cosmic Qi source via the pineal gland. this is why Krishna is blue and also Hathor - the Cow Goddess of Egypt - is blue. Then as more blue is absorbed FROM THE FUTURE - as a spacetime blue light shift - this creates the Golden Light just as in relativistic quantum physics, the golden light is from blue being absorbed as a future time "spin" shift of the magnetic moment.

 

 

[joeblast]

heh, reminds me of schoolhouse rock or something of the like back in the day when the dot jumped on the i, completing the "I" sound, all big & boomin

 

12 hours ago, Cheshire Cat said:

12 hours ago, Cheshire Cat said:

 

I agree that rhythm and melody are not strictly the same, but still the repetition of the same melody over and over constitutes a rhythm. You can think for example, of the popular mantra Hare Krishna: devotees are often fascinated by how easily this mantra can be held within the mind and they attribute some supernatural power to it. This mantra has rhythmic qualities of simmetry that the human brain respond to... and - this is more esoteric- it confers a certain power to human thought: India is full of stories of sadhus, gods and demigods who achieved supernatural power with the repetition of secret mantras. 

 

As for melody itself, I believe that - in some inexplicable way- it comes directly from some basic rhythm. It's born with simmetry and it has repetitive components. It just appears in consciousness. 

When I run in the forest, I meditate on the rhythm produced by the regularity of my steps: at first I have the disappearance of extraneous thoughts, but later some mysterious spontaneous melody comes to my hears and it substitutes the raw rhythm I was focusing on. There are no intentions of changing a rhythm for a melody: it happens spontaneously and it retains the repetitive quality of a sublimated rhythm. 

 

...

 

I'm not talking about how reality works according to some model. This is just how the brain works in meditation: it responds to rhythms (mantras, breath, visualizations, etc...), it produces rhythms (circadian rhythm, sleep cycles, etc...) and when the rhythm is fast enough, there's the perception of emptiness.

The stability of one-pointedness is a fast rhythm: there's a tantric visualization trick to achieve stability and that is to imagine a point of light pulsating, flickering at a very fast rhythm. 

 

This is at root a similar phenomena to that which I was describing happens by virtue of well attenuated dynamics - one pattern 'overwhelms' the others; the entirety of the cranial nerves' potentials sorta sync up.  Whether its chanting or running or drumming etc., same underlying principle. 

Spoiler

The musical "space between" headspace-feel becomes a little more important if you're trying to do like...polyrhythmns on the drums, lol - which was a bit more along the lines of what your response to drew was with that video, it would seem.  I think a basic analogy for what he was trying to explain would be something a bit more like comparing tuning a guitar with 5th fret & opens vs tuning by harmonics, where the beats are faster and more differentiable - extrapolate higher into the frequency ranges and the spacing of the tuning itself makes higher frequency peaks & troughs come out of phase with respect to the root so as to kill off the higher harmonics.  Effectively, that +440 shift is tossing a blanket over the higher harmonics in "western music."  Simple example, take 2 guitars and a bass, chord them all, except on the second guitar, chord on high register - that's the interaction that produces this effect, where the ranges overlap, the resultant set has tamped high harmonics.  So if Drew's contention that its the higher harmonics that heals is correct, then this is the original way the Progressives perverted music!

 

The big difference with my focus being the attenuation instead of having some other signal be the primary - while consuming energy in copious amounts, the cranial nerves will never collectively "align Yin," they will only "align Yang;" to make some sort of metaphor.  They only get the ability to "align Yin" by the body & mind being in an extremely high efficiency state - so while I've had "sensate rich samhadi-esque" experiences before, they fo damn sure are a far cry from the pure awareness-rich samhadi experiences where the cranial nerves "align Yin."   Samhadi is absolutely low frequency high amplitude waveforms like delta waves - I contend this because of the level of action that cascades once its perturbed - its so noticeably different and takes some time to recondition the patterns back proper, I dont care what EEGs have measured on a lab from some random meditator or monk

[Cheshire Cat]

On 26/7/2019 at 5:41 PM, voidisyinyang said:

So for example Ramana Maharshi states to at first repeat, "I, I, I, I, I, I" in the mind but NOT as a Mantra - rather as logical inference. So Ramana Maharshi then states that mantras become just as a trance and so lose the focus of the logical inference - instead the mind becomes lazy.

 

I don't resonate with Ramana Maharishi and I don't practice his teachings, but I think that the logic of this instruction is to avoid a state of passive repetition, a condition that it's very frequent in which the practitioner uses a portion of his mind to repeat a mantra, while the rest of the brain ponder its own things. Under those conditions, the rhythm empowers distracting  thoughts.

 

I don' think that to adopt a melody could fix that. Also, I believe that to reach a platform of fullfilment in compassion and love (which partially correspond to a peculiar inner activity of some nerves in the chest region) doesn't require the adoption of a specific philosophy that theorizes about the self. Although, it may surely help to believe not to be a material body and thus achieve a degree of detachment.

 

The idea is to practice long enough calming thoughts with rhythms and eventually things will develop by themselves. For example, think about novice bushmen healers who have distinct feeling of "power"to fight the disease... and elder healers who talk about compassion from the gods and the ancestors, not really about fighting, but love.

Refinement takes time.

I believe that some "winds" that travels the spine play a role in all of this and they're influenced by sexual energy.

 

23 hours ago, joeblast said:

Samhadi is absolutely low frequency high amplitude waveforms like delta waves - I contend this because of the level of action that cascades once its perturbed - its so noticeably different and takes some time to recondition the patterns back proper, I dont care what EEGs have measured on a lab from some random meditator or monk

 

I can't say very much about the "practical" differences between using faster rhythms and slower rhythms because I don t know. 

 

I think that, in the long run anything will do to quiet the mind, but ideally samadhi should help the practitioner to "forget" about his physical body and I've found fast rhythms to promote lucid dreaming, oobes and the kind of things in which one starts to lightly detach from a material self.

Also, the sudden appearances of  "whirling sensations" during meditation lead to the direction of going beyond the body.  I believe that the perception of a physical self is a kind of big, unquietable energy-consuming composite thought that requires specific sleep-wake rhythms to be pacified temporarily (and don't kill us) ... Basically, I try to go in the direction of quieting all of the subtle thoughts that tend to persist in quietude and detach from the idea of having a body... unless someday I find some secrets of immortality and rejuvenation in quietude, then I'll be ok with having subtle thoughts

Edited July 27, 2019 by Cheshire Cat

[voidisyinyang]

On 7/27/2019 at 12:16 PM, Cheshire Cat said:

 

I don't resonate with Ramana Maharishi and I don't practice his teachings, but I think that the logic of this instruction is to avoid a state of passive repetition, a condition that it's very frequent in which the practitioner uses a portion of his mind to repeat a mantra, while the rest of the brain ponder its own things. Under those conditions, the rhythm empowers distracting  thoughts.

 

I don' think that to adopt a melody could fix that. Also, I believe that to reach a platform of fullfilment in compassion and love (which partially correspond to a peculiar inner activity of some nerves in the chest region) doesn't require the adoption of a specific philosophy that theorizes about the self. Although, it may surely help to believe not to be a material body and thus achieve a degree of detachment.

 

The idea is to practice long enough calming thoughts with rhythms and eventually things will develop by themselves. For example, think about novice bushmen healers who have distinct feeling of "power"to fight the disease... and elder healers who talk about compassion from the gods and the ancestors, not really about fighting, but love.

Refinement takes time.

I believe that some "winds" that travels the spine play a role in all of this and they're influenced by sexual energy.

 

 

I can't say very much about the "practical" differences between using faster rhythms and slower rhythms because I don t know. 

 

I think that, in the long run anything will do to quiet the mind, but ideally samadhi should help the practitioner to "forget" about his physical body and I've found fast rhythms to promote lucid dreaming, oobes and the kind of things in which one starts to lightly detach from a material self.

Also, the sudden appearances of  "whirling sensations" during meditation lead to the direction of going beyond the body.  I believe that the perception of a physical self is a kind of big, unquietable energy-consuming composite thought that requires specific sleep-wake rhythms to be pacified temporarily (and don't kill us) ... Basically, I try to go in the direction of quieting all of the subtle thoughts that tend to persist in quietude and detach from the idea of having a body... unless someday I find some secrets of immortality and rejuvenation in quietude, then I'll be ok with having subtle thoughts

 

A quick way to cut through mental b.s. is just sit in full lotus padmasana - that is also based on music harmonics.

 

So whether music is a "theory" or philosophy? It is proven to have been the original spirit training - the Eland Bull Dance - from before human language crystallized. This is called "MusiLanguage."

 

So the "three gunas" of India is from before vedic philosophy - and so it is also the same as Daoism as based on music theory.

 

Basically if someone says a vowel sound - that naturally has harmonics that resonate as the Octave and Perfect Fifth and Perfect Fourth.

 

For example Master Nan, Huai-chin explains how a loud OM sound is heard to emanate spontaneously from the heart - when the jing (kundalini) is being converted into shen. I had this experience from a very strong DMT-based plant root medicine with an MAOI seed - combined with a 4 hour nonstop full lotus meditation during which I was not able to physically move (hardly).

 

So that is when I realized that what Ramana Maharshi teaches as the source of the I-thought is inherently also based on music harmonics as he uses the left brain as the source of the I-thought to get to open up the right side of the heart.

 

A good book to study for these secrets is Taoist Yoga: alchemy and Immortality.

 

But the music theory principles are universal - ALL human cultures use the octave, Perfect Fifth and Perfect Fourth and not just humans. Science is realizing these harmonics are the secret of reality - again based on this Noncommutative phase secret of nonlocal reality.

 

So I actually have scientists now regularly reading my blog - and they then publish this same model of reality based on music theory as explaining relativistic quantum physics. So - there's a medical scientists in the Netherlands which his assistant collaborator as an engineer. I have mentioned others also.

 

But yes there is no substitute for the actual meditation - which needs to be done with the eyes closed, based on visualizing light. The original human culture taught to visualize light at the base of the spine - and that the N/om (life force from fat hormones) turns into electromagnetic force that is sent out of the brain - with the eyes not moving - as a laser healing energy.

 

So they already did the advanced "neidan" training - including creating the Yang Shen bilocation body, etc.

 

But yes they had no "theory" but they did rely on what Dr. Bradford Keeney calls "shaking medicine." So the ELF schumann resonance is also the waking dream state or Theta brain wave. Dr. Keeney does not like the term trance and he has written how "ecstasy" got also misused by academia. So in other words - yes there has to be emotional energy with the music. This is why when Prince, the rock musician, died - then cities all over earth did "honor" him with the color purple. So people give great importance to music as an emotional memory imprint.

 

So we think of time - Dr. Stuart Hameroff has an excellent science explanation of precognition - stating that when Michael Jordan is in "the zone" then Jordan truly is perceiving the future. Again this means his internal brain speed is faster than those around him - so he is able to perceive things before they do. But also - he sees external perception as slowed down. This happens naturally if someone has a "near death" experience like almost a severe accident. So as Wim Hof teaches - the strong Quick Fire reverse tummo breathing is proven scientifically to DOUBLE ADRENALINE - just the same as Bungee jumping for the first time. So that means external time is perceived to slow down because the dopamine receptors are working twice as fast. Now if something is TOO traumatic - then time freezes into the deep dreamless state as a subconsciously stored trauma (PTSD) and this literally will fry out or damage the dopamine receptors. So then PTSD victims have damaged amgydalas and so then they react to stress more easily. This even happens to Westernized babies since doctors tell the mom to have the baby "cry it out." I have corresponded with a clinical psychologist who did the studies testing the stress hormone levels in the blood of babies left to "cry it out." She says it's permanent brain damage. This even made it to a NY Times article but she told me she is very mad at the doctors as they still practice this.

 

So for example when I was in first grade I then held my breath consciously till I passed out - and I hit my head on the way down - on the two concrete corner walls and then the concrete floor. I woke up to blood streaming out of my skull. But it took me awhile to figure out that I had already been suffering from repressed anger. There is a great book on this called Heroes by professor Michael Lesy - how ordinary people can do extraordinary acts in the spur of the moment. He analyzed the background lives to discover each of these "heroes" actually has strong repressed emotional blockages that then " burst forth." So I had discovered in two or three different Western medical books that it is technically impossible to hold your breath till you pass out since the prefrontal left brain cortex INTENTION is over-ridden by the subconscious anterior gyrus cingulate.... But when I told my book buddy friend this - he said he had discovered a memoir about the first Sherpas - to get the job they HAD to hold their breath till they passed out. So in nonwestern culture - they knew their emotional energy could overpower their intentional left brain focus.

 

So the brain on its own is weak - this is why the deep breathing is necessary and this then activates the Yuan Qi as the hidden "yang" or fire inside the water. So we think of the I-thought as just being a repetition or a rhythm or a mantra of the left brain - but in reality there is no repetition since the foundation of reality is what science calls "time-frequency uncertainty." This means that time as period inherently has an inverse opposite of frequency that is based on natural harmonics as the "law" of Pythagoras first discovered for the foundation of the WEst. But as I have pointed out - this got covered up in its TRUE alchemical meaning. Even Plato changed the order around of the alchemical elements based on the music harmonics - I go into this in my last book called Ancient Advanced Acoustic Alchemy - it is free online.

 

https://www.docdroid.net/LbJGgG2/ancient-advanced-acoustic-alchemy.pdf

 

OK another way to think of this is as Louis de Broglie discovered - there's actually TWO time "lines" - so the future and past are harmonized at the present. The present is the speed of light which does not experience space nor time. That is our "spiritual ego" as shen that is then TURNED AROUND to resonate with the future. So this turning around of the light is called the "light of no light" but it's also called Silence or think of it as the future canceling out the karma of the past. So our future is secretly guiding us all the time and when we have perceptions these are normally of the past. But if we have a precognitive vision then it is MORE REAL than our senses and perceptions of our normal left brain dominant processing of time. So a precognitive vision is the reversal of the future with the past.

 

So then de Broglie modeled this as matter being a "group wave" and then the future is the pilot wave - and the two are inextricably linked as what he called his greatest discovery - the Law of Phase Harmony (this is rarely discussed in regards to his work). So most people just discuss de Broglie as stating that all matter as momentum can be understood to actually be a wave or wavelength. So this in itself is paradoxical since momentum is normally imparted to mass as a point. So how can a wave be a point? But light inherently has what used to be called "relativistic mass" - an excellent essay on this is by Nobel physicist Gerard 't Hooft - called Why Light is Heavy. So essentially all matter is made of light but in fact even though light has no rest mass light does have mass "from the future" or spacetime mass - this is also called now "supermomentum" or it is called "noncommutative phase" as I have noted. So the physicist who predicted the Dark Energy acceleration of the Universe - in India - Sarkar? His name is slipping at the moment - anyway so he says how the mass of light is due to spacetime being noncommutative.

 

So then frequency is to time as momentum is to wavelength. But the frequency is from the future as a superluminal pilot wave. This is the noncommutative phase that is always-already non-local reality. So at "zero" time there is always-already an infinite frequency from the future as the pilot wave. But even zero and infinity are relative to the speed of light as the "spiritual ego" that turns itself around - and so matter is always being created new from micro black hole -white holes (Gerard 't Hooft also figured this out - as an extension of his "light is heavy" model).

 

 

Edited July 28, 2019 by voidisyinyang

[thelerner]

On 7/22/2019 at 3:20 AM, freeform said:

Just to interject with the Daoist approach to breathing...

 

Most authentic systems will strongly emphasise not to make any contrived changes to your ‘natural breathing’. 

 

Actually the changes come about from ‘Ting’ - absorptive awareness of the breathing process. If you practice it, you’ll notice that all the breathing ‘methods’ spontaneously appear at certain stages by themselves - this even includes reverse breathing, martial fire breathing, embryonic breathing and breath cessation.

 

Any contrivance will create a split in your ‘breath’ and ‘mind’ and the proper conditions and qualities will not be produced - but just imitated. 

Yes.. but by practicing longer breath cycles.  For example in Ki-Aikido Breathing Practice (like one minute breath cycles) was separate from Meditation Practice.  What happens is when you do meditate, your breath naturally is longer.  You're not putting effort into it, rather the artificial practice, makes your meditative breathing longer and deeper.  A plus in my book. 

 

Maybe its best to consider them as different practices. 

[freeform]

On 28/07/2019 at 11:43 PM, thelerner said:

Yes.. but by practicing longer breath cycles.  For example in Ki-Aikido Breathing Practice (like one minute breath cycles) was separate from Meditation Practice.

 

I’m actually talking about breathing practice - not meditation.

 

For the teachers who taught me this ‘classical’ method of breathing, ‘Meditation Practice’ only starts at samadhi - everything before that is not meditation, but sitting practice. They’re very strict 🙄

 

The Daoist approach seems on the surface to be similar to anapanasati - but it’s not.

 

When you properly absorb into the breathing process (not just the air moving in and out!) - your breathing changes by itself (over time). There are 5 classical qualities that develop (different schools have different numbers, but generally they fall into 5 categories).

 

Once these 5 qualities are present, the other breathing ‘methods’ will arise spontaneously. Such as reverse breathing, Dantien breathing, breath cessation etc.

 

Now there are indeed auxiliary practices designed to increase lung capacity, free up the diaphragm, increase the space and flexibility in your ribs etc.  These are manual and very physical exercises - not proper breathing practice - once these exercises are done, one returns to absorption into breath.

 

Saying all this, I’ve certainly done contrived breathing practice with different teachers. But the one method that made the biggest impact on my breathing and my ability to get into meditation has been the one where you leave your breathing alone - just absorb your awareness into it in a very particular way.

[Nuralshamal]

On 6.7.2019 at 12:34 AM, MuadDib said:

if I retain the breath, I immediately feel chi moving.

 

Holding the breath is one of the secrets of qigong alchemy. It's very easy and very simple, yet just like you've noticed, it wakes up the qi.

By combining posture, breathing (including holding the breath) and visualisation, you involve all of your being in whatever qigong you're doing.

The breathing is especially related to the qi. Qi being a central element of qigong (it's right there in the name!), breathing exercises and holding the breath is extremely important.