App Developer looking foor Daoist Creatives

[lloydxie]

Hi all! 

 

Really looking forward to chatting with you guys soon. To give a quick bio about myself, I am a creative tech developer based in Los Angeles. I'm looking to learn more about how you guys perceive the Dao De Ching to be and also looking for perspective on a Dao De Ching app that I'm going to make available to the public soon for free to spread the wisdom of Lao Tzu. I really want Daoist enthusiasts to enjoy using it as well as people who wouldn't otherwise known about Daoism to really enjoy it.

 

 

[Fa Xin]

Hello, lloydxie, and welcome.

 

Your membership is approved and we're happy you found your way to us. We look forward to accompanying you on some of the way that you still have to go.

 

Please take the time to read the post pinned at the top of this Welcome page and take a look at the forum Terms and Rules.   This covers all you need to know when getting started.

 

For the first week you will be restricted to ten posts per day but after that you can post as much as you like. Also, until you’ve posted fifteen times in the forums, you’ll be a “Junior Bum” with somewhat restricted access and will be allowed only two private messages per day.

 

Good luck in your pursuits and best wishes to you,

 

Fa Xin and the TDB team

 

Welcome lloydxie,

 

Funny, when I read your thread, I was reading the DDJ on an app on my phone 😁 I’ll be interested to hear what people have to say... Enjoy!

 

You are welcome to jump right in to the ongoing discussions, revive an older thread, start a new thread of your own, or start a discussion in the "Newcomer Corner" sub-forum to expand on your introduction or ask general questions to help you get started.

 

May you enjoy your time here.

 

Fa Xin

[lloydxie]

Thanks Fa Xin, It's my pleasure to meet you! Looking forward to joining the discussion

[dawei]

Welcome

 

There was someone in the last 2+ years who came on with the same idea and asked folks to review his app.  I recall giving some suggestions and look forward to seeing your app

 

[Lost in Translation]

It would be great to have a version of the TTC with hypertexts linking similar concepts, such as embodiment of Te, for example. This would allow readers to browse a passage and easily find other passages that discuss the same, or similar, concepts.

[Stosh]

I'm curious how someone else will be making sense of the cat herd.  

[vonkrankenhaus]

Might want to include some other sources besides or in addition to DaoDeJing.

 

Westerners especially view DDJ as "the" "manual of" Taoism.

 

That's because of Western academia.

 

DDJ is not showing a philosophy in any detail.

 

Just how to apply it to one large task - running a municipality of people.

 

There are MANY other aspects of Taoism to study and understand besides this one thing.

 

But in popular media culture and the related educations available - nobody would know.

 

Best is to study overall first, before concentration on one specific item or source.

 

Wishing you best luck in making Taoist phone "app", and I do think is a good idea generally.

 

 

 

 

 

-VonKrankenhaus

[Old Student]

Welcome lloydxie,

 

When you get a screen shot could you put it up?  I'm really hoping it will have the look & feel of an uncarved block.

[Cheshire Cat]

Most of us are interested in daoism because of energy practices, namely Qi channels cultivation and martial arts. Qi cultivation is the area of expertise of many who happen to know very little about daoist religion and philosophy. 

 

TTC has nothing to say about martial arts and Qi cultivation, apart from a verse or two that need to be heavily interpreted. 

 

In my opinion, a TTC app should include a commentary from an ordained daoist priest who can explain the meaning of the text his own cultural background. I think that a daoist priest would help you for free because they love to spread daoist philosophy. If you need help finding one, send me a PM. 

[moment]

I am sooooo luke warm about this.  I envy your enthusiasm.  In some ways it makes me wish for more youth.  In many ways apps are our digital future.  Yet, the Dao encompasses that and much more.  I am very interested in your efforts, long life and prosper. 

[moment]

6 hours ago, Cheshire Cat said:

Most of us are interested in daoism because of energy practices, namely Qi channels cultivation and martial arts. Qi cultivation is the area of expertise of many who happen to know very little about daoist religion and philosophy. 

 

TTC has nothing to say about martial arts and Qi cultivation, apart from a verse or two that need to be heavily interpreted. 

 

In my opinion, a TTC app should include a commentary from an ordained daoist priest who can explain the meaning of the text his own cultural background. I think that a daoist priest would help you for free because they love to spread daoist philosophy. If you need help finding one, send me a PM. 

cultural background is essential!

Edited July 12, 2019 by moment

[Old Student]

I would ask you to do one thing, and that is include the Chinese text along with whatever translation(s) you are providing.  The DDJ is very terse, and almost always there is more than one way to interpret a verse.  Each translator chooses one per verse, so you need to look at several translators to understand.  The DDJ is the most translated book in the world for that reason.  There are tons of commentaries, especially in Chinese, and kind of more all the time since there are sites like Baidu that have discussions going about it. There are also quite a few versions that vary in age and completeness, because Qinshihuangdi burned the books, and people hid it and even in the past few decades, new copies have been unearthed.

 

In China, when one studies this text in a class, that will be the title of the class, and the students are expected to memorize the text and be able to quote it from memory.  That makes for an ability to think about verses at any time and any place and draw meaning from life's situations.

 

There is also a fairly sharp distinction between Daojia and Daojiao -- Daoist philosophy and Daoist religion. DDJ is usually, but not always, considered Daojia. Daojiao is what priests do.

Edited July 12, 2019 by Old Student

[Cheshire Cat]

1 hour ago, Old Student said:

There is also a fairly sharp distinction between Daojia and Daojiao -- Daoist philosophy and Daoist religion.

 

Can you provide an example or two of actual lineages of pure daoist philosophy to clarify the distinction? 

[Old Student]

2 hours ago, Cheshire Cat said:

Can you provide an example or two of actual lineages of pure daoist philosophy to clarify the distinction? 

 

Somebody who sticks to laozhuang, and somebody who prefers to study later Daoism through neo-Confucianism. It doesn't involve lineages, Daojia (道家) is philosophical study, like, for instance, my Laozi course at the university, it is study of the various Daoist texts, debates over authenticity, study if the meanings of particular texts, including the DDJ, Zhuangzi, Liezi, etc., the way that, in the West, one might study Christianity in a divinity school.  The term literally means those who are philosophical Daoists, the term Jia here being used for schools of thought.

 

Daojiao (道教) literally means Daoist religion, the way Jidujiao ( 基督教 ) means the Christian religion. At least before Communism, and to much the same extent today, a person might go to a Buddhist priest for counsel, might celebrate Teacher's Day at the Confucian temple, and go to the Daoist temple for a funeral, or for geomancy, or a reading when their kid is born.  Actual religion, with temples and lineages and stuff.

 

In most of China and the diaspora, the various internal martial arts might very well be practiced just for health or mental well being, and picked up in the park in the morning, or at an institute of physical culture (mainland). Same with qigong for the average Joe.  The more arcane stuff like neigong, neidan, waidan, is all traditionally the province of Daojiao, or of recluses and sages. That's not to say they don't honor their teachers in the park, or like them to have good credentials, they do, but they don't become full time adherents past 9am in the morning except when they grow more serious about it.  In India, lots of people have gurus, not that many are, or consider themselves to be, full time yogis, it's kind of the same.

 

You mentioned that you deal mostly with channels and qi than Laozi, that puts you either in Chinese medicine/fitness or in Daojiao which is why you don't spend much time with the DDJ.  Is that clearer?

[lloydxie]

On 7/11/2019 at 9:49 PM, Cheshire Cat said:

Most of us are interested in daoism because of energy practices, namely Qi channels cultivation and martial arts. Qi cultivation is the area of expertise of many who happen to know very little about daoist religion and philosophy. 

 

TTC has nothing to say about martial arts and Qi cultivation, apart from a verse or two that need to be heavily interpreted. 

 

In my opinion, a TTC app should include a commentary from an ordained daoist priest who can explain the meaning of the text his own cultural background. I think that a daoist priest would help you for free because they love to spread daoist philosophy. If you need help finding one, send me a PM. 

 

A lovely idea! Reading archaic words can cause one to feel like banging their head on the wall. Experience and cultural awareness from a Daoist priest can aid people's understanding. Perhaps I would add a 5 minute timer before folks are allowed to read the "Daoist Priest Commentary" – my hope is that people ideally spend 10 minutes total on each passage – 2 to read it, 3 to ponder it, and 5 more to re-read and re-ponder it.

[lloydxie]

On 7/11/2019 at 2:47 PM, vonkrankenhaus said:

Might want to include some other sources besides or in addition to DaoDeJing.

 

Westerners especially view DDJ as "the" "manual of" Taoism.

 

That's because of Western academia.

 

DDJ is not showing a philosophy in any detail.

 

Just how to apply it to one large task - running a municipality of people.

 

There are MANY other aspects of Taoism to study and understand besides this one thing.

 

But in popular media culture and the related educations available - nobody would know.

 

Best is to study overall first, before concentration on one specific item or source.

 

Wishing you best luck in making Taoist phone "app", and I do think is a good idea generally.

 

 

 

 

 

-VonKrankenhaus

 

On 7/11/2019 at 9:49 PM, Cheshire Cat said:

On 7/11/2019 at 1:44 PM, Lost in Translation said:

It would be great to have a version of the TTC with hypertexts linking similar concepts, such as embodiment of Te, for example. This would allow readers to browse a passage and easily find other passages that discuss the same, or similar, concepts.

 

 

Interesting perspectives vonkrankenhaus and Lost in Translation – I like the idea of connecting dots on related concepts!

 

What other sources would you like to see more of out there and why? I'm only really aware of TTC. 

[lloydxie]

On 7/11/2019 at 5:00 PM, Old Student said:

Welcome lloydxie,

 

When you get a screen shot could you put it up?  I'm really hoping it will have the look & feel of an uncarved block.

 

Ha, uncarved block? Curious where this visual is coming from.

 

I will try to release it within the next 7 days and report back with a link! But in the meantime here is the initial loading screen as a teaser.

 

https://imgur.com/a/RJqjcJC

[lloydxie]

As someone to happens to enjoy the presence of cats –– I can't help but notice there are many cat enthusiasts here. Coincidence?

[lloydxie]

On 7/12/2019 at 4:33 AM, moment said:

I am sooooo luke warm about this.  I envy your enthusiasm.  In some ways it makes me wish for more youth.  In many ways apps are our digital future.  Yet, the Dao encompasses that and much more.  I am very interested in your efforts, long life and prosper. 

Moment, thank you so much for the words of inspiration!!! There is one thing us youth are guaranteed to lack and that is true wisdom from experience . Something certainly needed in the app / tech world today.

[lloydxie]

On 7/12/2019 at 6:25 AM, Old Student said:

I would ask you to do one thing, and that is include the Chinese text along with whatever translation(s) you are providing.  The DDJ is very terse, and almost always there is more than one way to interpret a verse.  Each translator chooses one per verse, so you need to look at several translators to understand.  The DDJ is the most translated book in the world for that reason.  There are tons of commentaries, especially in Chinese, and kind of more all the time since there are sites like Baidu that have discussions going about it. There are also quite a few versions that vary in age and completeness, because Qinshihuangdi burned the books, and people hid it and even in the past few decades, new copies have been unearthed.

 

In China, when one studies this text in a class, that will be the title of the class, and the students are expected to memorize the text and be able to quote it from memory.  That makes for an ability to think about verses at any time and any place and draw meaning from life's situations.

 

There is also a fairly sharp distinction between Daojia and Daojiao -- Daoist philosophy and Daoist religion. DDJ is usually, but not always, considered Daojia. Daojiao is what priests do.

Absolutely! My significant other has you beat on this – she is just as insistent on including a Chinese translation. Which is natural given our Chinese background. Thanks for sharing the context of DDJ in China today, it's good to be aware of this.

 

This gives me the idea to possibly add a "Try another interpretation" button to the app for the user to tap if the current translation missed by a mile. I have definitely seen some translations go to extreme levels of vagueness . Comparisons might be interesting.

[Old Student]

56 minutes ago, lloydxie said:

Ha, uncarved block? Curious where this visual is coming from.

DDJ chapter 28, for instance, ends, "...復歸於樸.“(..."reverts to the uncarved block.")  It's a Laozi greatest hit.

[Stosh]

3 hours ago, lloydxie said:

As someone to happens to enjoy the presence of cats –– I can't help but notice there are many cat enthusiasts here. Coincidence?

There are no coincidences, really.

 

The clips on that imjur thing were very creative, the hammer throw was incredible. Wow.