What happens to suicides?

[doc benway]

On 7/13/2019 at 12:13 AM, Tryingtodobetter said:

I've thought about suicide time and time again, occasionally throughout the years and as of late I really see no point in continuing being present on this plane. I had an experience today where I really questioned my existence again, in depth. My life has no value, no meaning, no purpose. I have no substantial savings, no transportation, no relationship, no true social circle, no home of my own, no semblance of true community- really nothing of worth using a societal metric or even using a "spiritual" one. I simply have no worth or purpose. I am very tired. I had things I would've liked to accomplish, though now it's as if the larger part of those desires have been whittled down by time and things unseen, inwardly and outwardly. I have lived far too long. This world holds nothing for me and the inverse is probably true as well.

 

I want to commit suicide and I would like to know the actual repercussions. I dont want to be told to "hang in there". My life is over. I just want to know where my destination is once I release myself from my mortal shell. I figured this forum would be one of the spaces visited by someone with a genuine answer to this question.

 

No one can answer this question for you.

When we die, we will know, or not.

 

We can rely on the explanations of others but what do they really know?

You will come to that place completely alone and will be utterly surprised.

 

The power of that little voice in our heads is astonishing.

To be surrounded by such beauty, such infinite potential, and to only see it all as failure because of some set of twisted expectations is really something unfortunate and unique to humans, it seems. And it happens to so many of us! You are in very good company.  Generally, it seems to happen mostly to those of us who are living in quite satisfactory conditions.

 

Rather than end your life right away, what about beginning to question the judgement of the chatterbox in your head?

That one is seeing a very limited and skewed view of yourself, your potential, and the world around you.

That one is very confused and to follow its guidance is foolish.

It is fundamental ignorance according to Buddhists.

 

There is a place we can find and connect with that is infinitely more supportive, clear, and accessible.

 

Good luck to you

 

[liminal_luke]

If nothing else, it is heartening to see how much people care. The voice of depression says that nobody gives a damn; this thread demonstrates otherwise.  So many wonderful people offering wisdom and support.

Edited July 15, 2019 by liminal_luke

[silent thunder]

So potent that you are willing to share this.  Thank you.

 

For me, there is and always has been only one cornerstone philosophical question.

 

Continue life or not?  That's it.

 

All other lines of questioning are predicated on the answer to this one.

 

 

 

I've been on the verge of suicide three times.  Knife in hand, ready to go.

In the third experience, I was leaning against the tree I had chosen to bleed out on, knife was pressed to neck, about to plunge.

Amidst the fog, the pain and the voices of ruin and apathy, the following settled in mind so very distinctly, unforcefully and plainly, it cut through the fog.

 

one constant of life is change. 

what is now can not remain. 

all is change.

 

Therefore it continued... why this permanent solution for a temporary experience?

 

The voice fell silent, i put the knife away and walked home.

 

I have no words of warning about dire consequences for the deed itself, your life is your life and none can stay your hand if you so choose.  However, the impact on those who remain... good god, that is a crushing weight to bear, an acid that does not cease burning.  Ruinous.  Calamity. 

 

So why a permanent choice for a temporary feeling?

 

can always do it later.

 

Why make that permanent decision just now.  There's shift in the wind... 

 

Change is the real master of life and all find release to death eventually, you'll get to have that peace.  I for one, being far from perfected self crave many things... among them, is to share more words, ideas and time with you.  Connection is the meaning of my life.  This above all others I cultivate am sustained and nourished by...

 

And no matter how you play this, I will be a voice who, you can assure yourself will never blame you, despise you, nor judge you, should you choose to pass.  But I will sing from my heart mournfully, how much I am with you, and how dear you shine for me through the momentary connection you offered me through your caring enough to share.

 

I will never judge you, but I will deeply mourn you and in your passing, I will experience my own self as less.

 

That voice led me to another insight eventually.

 

My skin is not the barrier that separates me from all of life... it is the very bridge that connects me to all.

 

Love and respect to you for sharing.

 

 

[Stosh]

So you think you're trying to do better eh? 

 

It is your job to find the meaning you will have. 

Suicide hurts the people who did care about you , on whatever level they did care.

Its a pro-rated vindictive action. 

 

Eventually , everybody just goes on with their own life , in which they have found meaning.

Or , they find that they have their fair share of happiness without some thing to hang a hat on. 

 

I liked several peoples contributions , but you might not be ready for what they said. 

[Wizz]

On 7/13/2019 at 6:13 AM, Tryingtodobetter said:

I've thought about suicide time and time again, occasionally throughout the years and as of late I really see no point in continuing being present on this plane. I had an experience today where I really questioned my existence again, in depth. My life has no value, no meaning, no purpose. I have no substantial savings, no transportation, no relationship, no true social circle, no home of my own, no semblance of true community- really nothing of worth using a societal metric or even using a "spiritual" one. I simply have no worth or purpose. I am very tired. I had things I would've liked to accomplish, though now it's as if the larger part of those desires have been whittled down by time and things unseen, inwardly and outwardly. I have lived far too long. This world holds nothing for me and the inverse is probably true as well.

 

I want to commit suicide and I would like to know the actual repercussions. I dont want to be told to "hang in there". My life is over. I just want to know where my destination is once I release myself from my mortal shell. I figured this forum would be one of the spaces visited by someone with a genuine answer to this question.

 

Its hard to say what would the actual repercussions be since its your life you are talking about here and so far you know the best how it is you are living it. Making bad choices in life gives us a bad life even if we have the same things and live in the same world as others. I guess people make these choices with awareness that they could live with them once they make them but once they realize they can't they search for new solutions. Thus we come to the death option.. But what is death? And here is the catch.. How we live our life also greatly affects how will we relate to our own death. This in itself doesn't really explain what death is and what happens in stages after it happens but its still important because the different ways of life can take you to different destinations in afterlife since they have a different approach to death momentum.

 

In reality death is an energetic happening that happens to everyone and most people die in a way what is considered today a "regular death" an energy process which they have no control of to what is happening to them which leads to a stage process of reincarnation but since energetically most of the population isn't 100% human before incarnating back to this world as human they get to first incarnate back to the world they came from as whatever energy being they existed as and after spending a lifetime there they can incarnate back again here. The human self part that people dream about splits and travels permanently to a location to continue dreaming an unconscious dream for the time's being. This location is a dreaming version of the waking Earth world we live in which all people naturally inhabit and have access trough dreaming when asleep where they either have lucid dreams or they dream with other people dreaming bodies resolving their subconscious issues. The fake identity part that people consider themselves to be coupled with the petty internal dialogue that follows it isn't even real to begin with as such and isn't a part of our being and therefore as such just continues to plague on everyone living in this world like it already is. Since it isn't real and listening to it only creates illusions taking its advice's regarding life and death would be a bad choice since it doesn't lead to a better solution but rather to a miserable life with just more problems to deal with.

 

This gets us back to the question is death really liberating? I would say that death itself since it is a powerful energy moment in our life touches our whole being in such a way that makes us realize what it feels like to be touched by God again and this is truly liberating but since for most people it happens in an uncontrollable manner and last for just a few seconds before the stages of reincarnations take place leading you to different worlds which are mostly worlds that everyone just wants to break free from, any other strong energetic momentum that takes you away from the mind dialogue and away from your usual self will have the same effect on you, momentum's like meditation, internal silence, lucid dreaming, energy practices, even drugs or power plant medicine. They are all good for your well being if used as such and there is always time for death it happens eventually anyway. And if you get proficient at it and face death as an energy being instead of facing it unprepared you will have to option of keeping the best of your humanity with you on your journey in the afterlife being transformed into a new kind of being, a being that is able to choose its own destination which is truly what freedom is about. This is the point where your fate transcends your purpose.

 

Now if you want to know the abouts of the world you came back from you can find it and experience it for yourself trough consciously controlled lucid dreaming with the little help of the energy beings that live in a near by dimension which can be met  trough the avenue of dreaming. This exploration will put you on a path itself. The question is will you want to live there when you see the problems of the very world you came from which the inhabitants experience coupled with a prolonged life span which can seem like long suffering instead.

 

There are also plenty of paths that cover life and death in their own way and the very modern life of a man is also one of them, my point is that everyone is trying to live their life according to the options they know about and if we knew more we would respond accordingly whatever beliefs we have. This is just how I have been taught and why I choose Nagualism as my path since it covers all of the above I've written. If interested Carlos Castaneda covers and writes on Nagualism in his books as the teachings of Don Juan.

 

 

On the personal side what I like about you is the strength you have and that can be felt behind your decisions all the way from the moment you came on this forum. I also saw that your thinking is still muddled by petty thoughts which I assume is due to being quite young and no much experience on regular work on silencing the mind. Nevertheless this strength is the reason I wrote back because there is a type of intelligence behind it that moved me and make me respond since I wouldn't otherwise, I just couldn't disregard it and be the same. Life has its ups and downs it flows like a wave and after it hits bottom it raises to its glory

 

Wish you well.

 

 

 

[manitou]

9 hours ago, Hag said:

If you really want to kill yourself, like it is your biggest dream, do it. Why shouldn't you ?

 

If you want to kill yourself because you feel helpless otherwise, tell yourself that whatever happens, death will come to you anyway sooner or later, so why force it ? Just do whatever you want meantime.

You can still kill yourself tomorrow.

 

 

 

 

I actually like this post.  It reminds me that the Daodejing tells us that the Dao regards us as ceremonial straw dogs anyway.  Does it really matter when we live or die?  Nothing 'out there' cares at all.  We are the sentient being.

 

But this also brings to mind that anything less than pure harmony is of the ego.  Depression is of the ego.  Pride is of the ego.  Anything that embellishes our True Self, any prior conditioning - it's all of the ego.  The awareness of depression being of the ego, somehow, is a motivator to me.  Excessive ego is something I do not want to possess.  when I let myself slip into depression, I'm back into my egoic illusion.  Actually, on the path of self realization, depression is a pretty good guard rail.

[Aetherous]

11 hours ago, Hag said:

If you really want to kill yourself, like it is your biggest dream, do it.

 

I wonder if it's against forum rules to encourage suicidal people to commit suicide? @dawei

 

A young woman was convicted for doing this very thing in the US.

[forestofclarity]

On 7/12/2019 at 10:13 PM, Tryingtodobetter said:

My life has no value, no meaning, no purpose. I have no substantial savings, no transportation, no relationship, no true social circle, no home of my own, no semblance of true community- really nothing of worth using a societal metric or even using a "spiritual" one. I simply have no worth or purpose. I am very tired. I had things I would've liked to accomplish, though now it's as if the larger part of those desires have been whittled down by time and things unseen, inwardly and outwardly. I have lived far too long. This world holds nothing for me and the inverse is probably true as well.

 

The analysis is not fully correct: the realization of the futility of the world is in fact something to note from a spiritual perspective. In fact, many traditions indicate that this is absolutely essential for any spiritual progress. In Buddhism, it is summarized by the First Noble Truth that there is suffering. It is this very suffering that makes it possible to turn away from the world at all. 

 

The issue with suicide is that there is an assumption that death is somehow an end or a cessation. However, nothing really begins or truly ends. The entire cosmos is in constant transformation. From a Tibetan Buddhist point of view, death is not unlike going to sleep. When we go to sleep, there is often a period of darkness and forgetting. Based on this experience during the dying process, we think that is the end. But if death is truly like sleep, after this initial period of unconsciousness, we will rise again in a dream. After the dream, we are reborn again into the world. Similarly, the it is taught that the dying process is the same. An initial cessation, dreamlike experiences, and a rebirth. 

 

Similarly, no matter how depressed or how much pain we are in, it is not a part of our true nature. Again, we experience this every night when we go into deep dreamless sleep. We let go of everything. Pain is transient. Because of this, it is possible to find an end to suffering. The only way to end suffering is to remove our ignorance that is the cause of it. Having been born in this time and in this place, with an interest in spirituality, and to see the futility of attachment and playing in the red dust of the world can be a great fortune. The curse can become a blessing showing us the way out. 

 

I would challenge anyone on this board who feels the same way as the OP to use this as an opportunity to choose a tradition and practice in it. Whether it is Buddhism, Vedanta, Daoism, or an another practice that has a proven record of liberation. Follow a single path, preferably with a single teacher, and do what they tell you to do. Having come to the conclusion that life is meaningless, please seek out and find a teacher you can learn from. Make it your life. See what happens. The result may be very surprising. I guarantee you will not regret it. 

 

[pegasus1992]

On 7/13/2019 at 5:13 AM, Tryingtodobetter said:

I want to commit suicide and I would like to know the actual repercussions. I dont want to be told to "hang in there". My life is over. I just want to know where my destination is once I release myself from my mortal shell. I figured this forum would be one of the spaces visited by someone with a genuine answer to this question.

 

Let me put it this way, if you feel this is bad, then what awaits you after suicide will be worse

 

the soul must go through a process of purification, which detaches and cleanses it from all things "earthly"....if you try to escape the things you want, rather than face them....you'll be made face them without any prospect of ever achieving them. We'll not enter into discussions regards the kama locas and whatnot (for now, at least). But i will leave you with this (and it is a most accurate description) from the movie "Jacobs ladder" along with a corresponding piece of art by Matthias Grunewald which depicts the process

 

"If you're afraid of dying, and you're holdin' on, you'll see devils tearin' your life away. But if you've made your peace, then the devils are really angels, freein' you from the world"

 

 

 

FYI nobody who has made peace with the world and themselves commits suicide...its simply not natural

 

My advice would be to remember that the meaning of life is very simple....it has been splattered across the faces of every race and every person since the inception of man.

 

The meaning of life is simply, to learn.

 

By trying to escape learning whatever it is you are meant to learn...you will inevitably find yourself further back along the "wheel of learning"

 

So long story short, don't do it...and stop measuring your self worth against societal expectations of successful...its not good for you.

 

Also, chin up and head high!

[sustainablefarm86]

1

Edited December 6, 2020 by King Jade

[cihan]

So you ended up in a sh.ty place with your vehicle, and got confused so much that you want to crash your vehicle delibaretely.

If you crash it, you might not be imbursed a new one by the insurance co. as you were deliberate, and  caused unnecessary turmoil to interdependent fellows on the road, and might get stuck in the same place, with a much inferior vehicle, or none, depending on your past records.

Only way to move on is by another vehicle as you had not  cultivated  wisdom enough to figure out  what is really happening.

Only a weathered vehicle can get you out of your current scenery, so while you still have a decent one, hang on to it.

Stop listening to the whining channel on your receiver and start by cleaning up, do some maintanence and get it physically fit.

Happiness sprouts from physical balance, and a balanced vehicle withstands anything with a hearty laugh.

 

 

[Nintendao]

9 hours ago, King Jade said:

Sigh, okay, but I just can't seem to trust no one and any of them teachers I found on Google in my area , what if they're clowns????3 I'm a clown already I don't want no other clown wasting my time fuck them  

ps:  this after death discussions seem contradictory. Unless you really know for sure what happens,     beware of spreading fear of hell v2.0, it wont work.

 

Trust in the value of strangers. No need to google for teachers. There is likely one right down the street. Provided the weather is decent, go ahead and walk over there when you get a break. Also check behind any trees you may pass. Do not be afraid to give a big smile and a wave to the teacher wherever you meet them. Even if it's forced. It need not go any further than that for now. Repeat this process, and the truth you seek will eventually open up.

 

As for hell.. there's obviously no way to say with absoluteness what becomes of an individual mind that undergoes whatever form of death awaits it. But may I remind, that in the case of suicide, continuation and multiplication of suffering are guaranteed. Even if not in the experience of the individual, but by those they'd leave behind..

 

Edited July 16, 2019 by Nintendao
nerdliness

[manitou]

3 hours ago, Nintendao said:

But may I remind, that in the case of suicide, continuation and multiplication of suffering are guaranteed.

 

 

How is this known?

[rideforever]

Committing suicide is just another way to keep the ego.

This time you sacrifice your life so that the illusions can continue.

Strange, but true.

In fact most people are sacrificing their life to continue a mad dream.

There is only one solution.

 

 

[Nintendao]

1 hour ago, manitou said:

 

 

How is this known?

 

Mostly because Kar3n said so 😇

 

I mean I guess we could split hairs and say that if someone was actively harming others, and decided to delete themselves, would net suffering decrease over time? Or if I existed in a hypothetical karmic vacuum, and nobody would know the difference either way. But for the most part, it’s only passing the buck.

[rideforever]

As for spiritual teachers King Jade. 

I have always found most useful is to read the life of the teachers, or of people who have endured.  That includes Marcus Aurelius who would meditate every day in the morning saying to himself that today I will meet an unending stream of bad mannered and antagonistic people.  That was his morning ritual.

 

Edited July 16, 2019 by rideforever

[thelerner]

Here's what I know.  Suicide hurts family, friends, acquaintances, neighbors.. horribly.  It creates sadness and despair for them.  It also kills off the person you could be.  The one who's snapped out of depression and is happy.  There are countless stories of those who've come out of hard times, depression, melancholy and found happiness and purpose or at least a reason for going on. 

 

things change and they do get better. 

Edited July 19, 2019 by thelerner

[freeform]

On 13/07/2019 at 5:13 AM, Tryingtodobetter said:

I want to commit suicide and I would like to know the actual repercussions. I dont want to be told to "hang in there". My life is over. I just want to know where my destination is once I release myself from my mortal shell. I figured this forum would be one of the spaces visited by someone with a genuine answer to this question.

 

From the Daoist perspective, it depends how exactly you plan to kill yourself. Certain ways of dying guarantee an immediate entry into ‘the hell realms’. 

 

Being in the hell realms means you will not reincarnate into human form, but will suffer in (almost) perpetual torment. The torment is usually related to the torment that brought you to kill yourself in the first place.

 

If you kill yourself in a way that allows your Po spirit to be released upon death, then your Hun spirit won’t (necessarily) be dragged down to the hell realms, but would have the chance of reincarnation...

 

although there are many Ming - based issues created if you kill yourself to end suffering, and your rebirth is likely to be a much less fortunate one.

 

I guess you may think ‘how much less fortunate could things really be?’... but you’re prosperous enough to be writing this message on a digital device. Meaning you can read and write, you can afford a device, or have access to one, and you probably live in a first world country. Being able to type means you have fingers and no major mental disability. Visiting a spiritual website suggests you have intellect and some insight even. So at least materially, you’re incredibly lucky... all indications are that if you kill yourself while in this very fortunate life, your next life will be much less materially fortunate.

 

Here’s just one example of a materially less fortunate existence

From the Buddhist perspective the outlook is not much better (worse actually). Willingness to harm yourself or others - particularly in the last moments before death creates karma that results in unlimited suffering (dying without this karma limits the amount of suffering).

 

On the other hand - if you’re able to enter Jhanna meditation at the moment of suicide, you’re almost guaranteed a pretty fortunate rebirth

 

Edited July 21, 2019 by freeform

[freeform]

If you do want to experiment with living again, one of the best things you can do is volunteer to help others.

 

Whether it’s volunteering at a shelter, a needle exchange or a soup kitchen - it doesn’t matter.

 

Its pointless to explain why this has an almost immediate effect in bringing vibrancy back to life. You just have to try.

 

Find the closest volunteering opportunity near you and give them a call.

[silent thunder]

While the pain experienced by those who remain when one silences their own process is real based on my own experience; the stories about what occurs to the awareness of the life consciously passed, the ramifications, the judgements, the scare tactics are just that... stories built from assumptions and hear/say. 

 

They reflect to me, the assumptions of the minds that share them, not the absolute reality of what arises.

 

My life, my awareness is within my conscious ability to cease voluntarily.  Is this not so?

 

Tao has no mind, no judgement, is no thing, no process.  Cessation of form is as natural as arising of form.

Sun shines in all directions from a star.  No direction is more appropriate.

 

No leaf falls in the wrong spot, nor does rain ever settle in the incorrect place.

 

Life arises and continues to arise.  Forms rise and fall.

 

Truthfully for me, there is no pounding judgement awaiting those who silence themselves at the point of their choosing.  Judgement is for living minds and is the realm of those continue to hold a form, generating localized mind/awareness.

[liminal_luke]

26 minutes ago, silent thunder said:

 

Truthfully for me, there is no pounding judgement awaiting those who silence themselves at the point of their choosing.  Judgement is for living minds and is the realm of those continue to hold a form, generating localized mind/awareness.

 

Agreed.  I have no idea what happens to someone after a death from suicide.  Perhaps it is as terrible as some here have portrayed but I hope not.  How cruel that someone should suffer so in this life only to suffer to an even greater degree in the next.  

 

My dad committed suicide and I always wonder why he didn´t go to New Zealand instead.  He used to talk about going to New Zealand and raising sheep, and he could have done it too, why not.  I hope he´s not burning in some terrible hell realm.  That wouldn´t seem fair.  We didn´t get along very well when I was a kid and I could tell lots of bad stories about him -- and yet he was also a good person.  He was a person who did the best he knew how under difficult circumstances.  My dad and others like him, people dealing with great emotional pain, deserve our compassion not our condemnation.   

[freeform]

54 minutes ago, silent thunder said:

Truthfully for me, there is no pounding judgement awaiting those who silence themselves at the point of their choosing.

 

Not sure myself - just relating the perspectives of these traditions...

 

Although it’s worth pointing out that the concepts of Ming and Karma are a lot more sophisticated than the Christianised notion of judgement from some external source.

[freeform]

25 minutes ago, liminal_luke said:

How cruel that someone should suffer so in this life only to suffer to an even greater degree in the next.

 

Oh it gets worse...

 

Even when one is murdered - by strangulation or by hanging, it is considered that the Po soul cannot escape with the last breath and so drags the Hun (the ‘human’ element of your spirit) down to the hell realms too.

[thelerner]

32 minutes ago, liminal_luke said:

 My dad and others like him, people dealing with great emotional pain, deserve our compassion not our condemnation.   

amen.  people are judgemental, religions are judgmental (&controlling) I don't think the universe is.  I assume pettiness and punishment to be human constructs, not the Universes. 

 

On my first job I sold computers at a small family run store.  The big boss was loud and not the nicest, his son who worked under him always seemed nice.  After a year and a half, I saved up money, my apartment contract was over, I was just under 25 and could get a cheap Eurail pass, so I quit and went backpacking through Europe.  

 

Lived cheaply stayed for a long time, months.  When I got back I found out, sadly, that the son had killed himself.   He was a little older then me.  I wish instead of taking his life, he'd changed locations.  Given up on the old life and started one anew.  Had gone w/ me to Europe, lived in $10 hostels and pensiones.   Traveled, met people.. lived. 

 

When there's so much pressure you feel like breaking, move out of the way, start fresh, regain perspective, if you can.

 

 

Edited July 21, 2019 by thelerner

[freeform]

These things can be quite mechanistic in some ways.

 

For example the Japanese Samurai’s ritual suicide - seppuku - was designed to free one from the possibility of a bad rebirth or existence in a hell realm...

 

The one committing seppuku would cut open their Dantien (as is their duty) and enter a well practiced meditative state (Jhanna) while a friend would stand over them and watch for the signs of Jhanna arising and would cut off their head at that precise moment - so that they die in the Jhanna state - guaranteeing a fortunate rebirth.

 

Much of the spiritual work is preparation for death...