Surf's Up !

[rideforever]

This is a great video (sound quite low unfortunately) about the fakeness of never getting angry and always being nicey nicey, why it happens and so on.   You can download it on y2mate if you want to boost the volume btw.

 

Here's another thought, if God doens't care that everyone gets murdered down here, should we ?

 

I believe I have arrived at the satan worshipping juncture of the spiritual path.

 

 

Edited July 18, 2019 by rideforever

[Fa Xin]

3 hours ago, rideforever said:

I believe I have arrived at the satan worshipping juncture of the spiritual path.

 

Route 666 or bust?

[Fa Xin]

Not sure why “No anger” is “fake”.  As long as you're not suppressing it.

 

I think the more clear a person is, the more one is aware that anger is not really necessary in interacting with others. Usually it gets in the way (in a big way). 

 

I would even say an anger response is usually based on one’s own internal conflict of the situation. 

Edited July 17, 2019 by Fa Xin

[rideforever]

Yes the level of conditioning is quite extreme about such things.

Underneath it is the self-hatred, refusal to exist.

The ego is behind it.

What we call anger is simply self protection and self activation energy, everyone has it, even God responds to things, that's karma.

But the ego fantasises about being perfect about being spiritual and better.

The level of conditioning of self-hatred is quite extreme.

Pretending you don't exist, pretending that when people crap on you that you aren't angry.

Pretending you are somehow immune to simple things.

It's all ego.

She explains it well.

 

Never getting angry is self-righteous, you think you are above it all.

That will trigger conflict with this world.

Walking around thinking that you are too good for this place.

 

If you can't even accept your meagre self at this low level, how will you accept yourself at a higher level.

Having so many strategies to be better than what you are here, the same will happen everywhere.

I can only think this will cause failure on the spiritual journey.

 

Edited July 18, 2019 by rideforever

[Fa Xin]

6 hours ago, rideforever said:

Yes the level of conditioning is quite extreme about such things.

Underneath it is the self-hatred, refusal to exist.

The ego is behind it.

What we call anger is simply self protection and self activation energy, everyone has it, even God responds to things, that's karma.

But the ego fantasises about being perfect about being spiritual and better.

The level of conditioning of self-hatred is quite extreme.

Pretending you don't exist, pretending that when people crap on you that you aren't angry.

Pretending you are somehow immune to simple things.

It's all ego.

She explains it well.

 

Never getting angry is self-righteous, you think you are above it all.

That will trigger conflict with this world.

Walking around thinking that you are too good for this place.

 

If you can't even accept your meagre self at this low level, how will you accept yourself at a higher level.

Having so many strategies to be better than what you are here, the same will happen everywhere.

I can only think this will cause failure on the spiritual journey.

 

 

Thanks for the reply. The things you listed above sounds like someone who is repressing and avoiding their anger, in which case I would agree, that is not healthy.

[johndoe2012]

Usually when we repress anger it is because we do not feel safe in the situation we are in.

 

That's why children behave differently when at home with parents than outside the home with other people. 

 

I wouldn't say I have completely cleared all my repression issues even with all the years of cultivation under my belt. 

 

Sometimes I have connected to Thor, the Nordic god of thunder and I have felt a natural expression of power arising in me that is different from my learned response which is more repressing than expressing. 

Edited July 18, 2019 by johndoe2012

[rideforever]

In the TTC it says embrace the earth and heaven will follow ... well what does that mean?   People read these texts whilst sipping tea and thinking themselves very special, because they are spiritual and advanced and imagine they sit on a white throne.

 

Actually what we are meant to understand, is to embrace what you are, including the things you run from, your sexuality, your natural self-protection that people disdain as anger, your own personal self and so on.   

Embrace your normal self, that is the earth.  And without a fuss.

And heaven will follow.

 

The unconscious masses are lost inside themselves, like an unconscious sea, they cannot be said to embrace anything.

Others think they embrace ... but really they wish to be Mother Theresa and don't embrace themselves but whip themselves.

Yet others embrace .... but refuse to be themselves, they embrace from a distance like "the management".

And others jump up and down smashing things and screaming like bioenergetics, which is mindless and leads nowhere.

 

Being yourself, the sun, the clouds, the thunder, the lightning ... but without making it personal, that is embracing the earth.

That is being natural.

 

The Buddhists and others became confused and lost their way ... the only thing they had left was to self-torture, self-denigrate, self-deny, but this is not a very good way.   

It can work but still why do it this way.

 

 

Edited July 18, 2019 by rideforever

[alchemystical]

See it all the time, bunch of fake ass bliss ninnies trying their hardest to wear their fake happy happy joy joy masks yapping all of this "love and light and we're all one" bullshit in this world of duality in the hour of chaos. Everyone has a plan till they get punched in the face.

One of the most powerful and sacred tools in your armory is your anger and laying down like a little bitch whilst someone disrespects you is in no way form elevated, advanced or spiritual. It just means you're afraid of owning your own power and slapping the taste out o their mouth for even daring to address you like that.

Can't pick and choose what you like and what you leave behind cos ultimately its all you. The trick is knowing when to express what to whom and why and for the optimal duration and intensity.

[escott]

3 hours ago, rideforever said:

In the TTC it says embrace the earth and heaven will follow ... well what does that mean?   People read these texts whilst sipping tea and thinking themselves very special, because they are spiritual and advanced.

But what it means is to embrace what you are, including the things you run from, your sexuality, your natural self-protection that people disdain as anger, your own personal self and so on.   

Embrace your normal self, that is the earth.

And heaven will follow.

But ... the unconscious masses are just lost and unconscious.

 

In the Western world influenced by Christianity much of this self-loathing comes from a Calvinistic misinterpretation of 1 Corinthians 2:14 (Read this -  https://www.christiancourier.com/articles/643-who-is-the-natural-man-in-1-corinthians-2-14 ). We are told to distrust our "natural" self. We are continuosly told that we are sinners and never doing what God wants us to do. Also, even though we are redeemed and forgiven we are still probably going to Hell anyway.

 

Thankfully, I'm done with that.

[thelerner]

Often its good to do better then your ordinary self.  Take the time to see when potential actions are motivated by the ego(anger, selfishness), take a step back and act with a little more patience and kindness.  Perhaps not in a fight, but I don't fight too often, matter of facts its pretty rare.  I do have situations daily where given a little thought, I can act thoughtfully and feel better afterwards. 

 

Its why I study dharma lessons from the wise.  Wisdom, kindness, respect for others and a little discipline make life run smoother.   Giving in to the moments anger, impatience.. harshly judging strangers make life bumpier.. easier at the moment, but in the long run, thoughtfulness pays off big time. 

 

Is it fake?  I don't think so, rather its maturity.  One that increasingly becomes the ordinary self. 

Edited July 18, 2019 by thelerner

[rideforever]

30 minutes ago, thelerner said:

Its why I study dharma lessons from the wise.  Wisdom, kindness, respect for others and a little discipline make life run smoother.   Giving in to the moments anger, impatience.. harshly judging strangers make life bumpier.. easier at the moment, but in the long run, thoughtfulness pays off big time. 

 

It is not really so.

There is a classic story of Buddha standing in front of an elderly couple who had destroyed their lives through alcoholism and lost their fortunes and he laughed at them.   In his journey he had defied his father, defied his whole society, he had studed with the greatest teachers available and left them telling them their truth was not the truth.

All the great sages had fire.

But extinguishing yourself is greatly respected by a society of prisoners.   

If they catch you trying to be alive they will crucify you, they will cut your head off because it reminds them of what they have done to themselves.

They betrayed life itself.

Only the fire is immortal.

 

Even when you sit still, the cowardice is still there.

People sit, but concentrate.

They sit, and try to be enlightened.

They sit and ... whatever the fk they can think of.

And they hope, someone is watching them and "respecting" their maturity.

 

To be really still is to burn in a blaze.

The light is not a trembling coward.

 

Wow, I must really be crazy !

I have absolutely no idea what I'm talking about !!!

 

Edited July 18, 2019 by rideforever

[bax44]

All I know is whenever I’ve attempted to not express my true feelings(anger, etc) to make a situation more “comfortable “ it hurts me. Whenever I let it out I feel much better. So I agree with most of what you say. Except for bio energetics being mindless. The exercises done properly can be quite useful and powerful.

[thelerner]

3 hours ago, rideforever said:

 

It is not really so.

There is a classic story of Buddha standing in front of an elderly couple who had destroyed their lives through alcoholism and lost their fortunes and he laughed at them.   In his journey he had defied his father, defied his whole society, he had studed with the greatest teachers available and left them telling them their truth was not the truth.

All the great sages had fire.

But extinguishing yourself is greatly respected by a society of prisoners.   

If they catch you trying to be alive they will crucify you, they will cut your head off because it reminds them of what they have done to themselves.

They betrayed life itself.

Only the fire is immortal.

 

Even when you sit still, the cowardice is still there.

People sit, but concentrate.

They sit, and try to be enlightened.

They sit and ... whatever the fk they can think of.

And they hope, someone is watching them and "respecting" their maturity.

 

To be really still is to burn in a blaze.

The light is not a trembling coward.

 

Wow, I must really be crazy !

I have absolutely no idea what I'm talking about !!!

 

I think you jump to extremes at the drop of a hat.

That's is a little bit crazy.  Especially if you do that constantly in your mind.  Someone listens to a speech on wisdom.. thus.. laughing at alcoholics (just like the Buddha?? where the heck do you get these things?) .. being kind is extinguishing yourself??  If they catch you you're crucified??  

 

Wow!!  Do you live by your exaggerations?  Sorry for setting you off  by mentioning kindness, thoughtfulness, respect.. not following the first selfish impulse are all good things.  Not because you get points or are being watched, they simply make for a better life, imo. 

 

To some extent we reflect the kind of world we want to live in.  Being helpful, courteous, the cliche Boy Scout ethics (dropping the homophobic one), strive for them and there are rewards.  Life, while perfect is happier, pronoia.  Your friends, neighbors, family.. often even strangers reflect those values back at you, it makes for better living. 

 

I suspect if you live by the paradigm mankind is filled with monkeys, zombies and horrible people.  You repeat that to yourself, and write it out 8 or 9 times a day, tell it to everyone who'll listen to you; how much people suck.  While one's ego may blow up, since they're a wonderkind in a world of rot, that for the most part, they will be very unhappy.

 

 

 

Edited July 18, 2019 by thelerner

[rideforever]

23 minutes ago, thelerner said:

the kind of world we want to live in

 

Well that's the problem you have an image given to you, and then you try to make it happen with all the things you do.

Rather than just being real and living with no image.

The story of Buddha shocked the hell out of me, but it was in the Pali Cannon's traditional stories of Buddha and was read out at a Vipassana retreat in the evening.  Truth is I was very angry hearing that story and accosted the teacher the next day in his study - I am still not sure what it means.

The images that mankind gives itself are very nice and simple and we can all try to paint by the numbers.

It's just so fake.

It's strange that people associate such idiocy with Buddha's journey, because he was not like that, otherwise he would have stayed in the castle and did everything just 1.2.3 like he was supposed to.

But, fortunately or unfortunately, he with a shock experienced life itself outside the walls and when he returned he was no longer interested in the world of 1.2.3 paint by the numbers, yes sir please and thank you, he saw it's insincerity.

 

His father tried very hard since he was young to prevent him leaving the system, replacing dying flowers with fresh and well behaved ones.  Don't be so negative and stop talking about sick people dying and drunk dancing girls.  You are being really negative young Siddhartha.

Just be mature and do like we are doing, okay sonny, if it was good enough for us why do you think you are so special.

 

But it was not okay, and he left.

 

Strange thing is, after a couple of generations Buddh-ism seems to have been turned 180degrees upside down, at least for some people.  Same as all the wars committed in well-behaved Jesus' name.

 

I think the fearful selectively delete the parts were Jesus threw down the office tables of the money changers and told people to get a sword, and the bit where he said I have come to turn you against your families.

Deleted automatically.

Because the fearful have no guts to stand up against anything ... they just want a little bit of hand holding whilst they do like the last generation did.

Ha !

 

Edited July 18, 2019 by rideforever

[liminal_luke]

I suggest a two-step process for dealing with strong emotions, including anger.  Step one: feel what you feel.  Repression is bad for the body and there´s no sense pretending to feel only "love and light" if that´s not the case.  Step two: take the step back suggested by Thelerner.  Just because you feel angry doesn´t mean you need to punch someone.  In fact, punching someone is rarely the best option.  The key is to create space between an emotion and the acting out of that emotion.  A big part of being an adult is not acting out our emotions -- while still allowing ourselves to feel them.  

[rideforever]

10 minutes ago, liminal_luke said:

while still allowing ourselves to feel them. 

 

I think it's a good plan, practical.

But it's still rather small. 

In the end truth is simply truth, and you cannot be other than what you are.

The activation energy of anger ... how long will you not allow it ?  Or judge it ?

Same for all the other parts of your energy system ?
You see at some point, you resistance has to end, because there is no other way.

Perhaps it will be alright.

- but you are right probably some people will think ... okay then and punch someone in the face ... which is not actually accepting your energy but unconscious acting-out.   So ... there is quite a lot of work to do before you could understand these ideas properly.

 

Edited July 18, 2019 by rideforever

[neti neti]

[Fa Xin]

1 hour ago, rideforever said:

 

I think it's a good plan, practical.

But it's still rather small. 

In the end truth is simply truth, and you cannot be other than what you are.

The activation energy of anger ... how long will you not allow it ?  Or judge it ?

Same for all the other parts of your energy system ?
You see at some point, you resistance has to end, because there is no other way.

Perhaps it will be alright.

- but you are right probably some people will think ... okay then and punch someone in the face ... which is not actually accepting your energy but unconscious acting-out.   So ... there is quite a lot of work to do before you could understand these ideas properly.

 

 

What do you think the end sum of such transformational practices is though? A Continuation of anger?

[Nungali]

 

 

 

What should I be so angry   about  ?

[thelerner]

If angry, be angry but don't feed it.  We can honor emotions, feel them, be human, but don't obsess.  Let it pass.  Don't let your thoughts be like a dog chasing its own tail. 

 

That's with the negative emotions.  Positive emotions, love, beauty, respect, cheerfulness, sharing, helping, a smile.. don't obsess but be willing to go out of your way to find and appreciate them.  They are all around.

 

Don't ignore the ugliness of the world, understand them, pick a problem, roll up your sleeves and do something, however small.  And know you recharge your energy with proper rest, nutrition and a bit those positive emotions. 

 

We stay sane with balance.. honoring the Middle Way. 

Edited July 19, 2019 by thelerner

[Everything]

God doesn't care about so many human created thought forms. Because many of those thought forms don't accomplish the creation of the entire universe. But what God does care about, is your ability to let go of those thought forms which don't belong to you, and allow the ones which are in alignment with your true nature to the core of who you are even as a soul. And God doesn't and cannot forgive you for holding on to flawed thought forms, because God has never blamed you for anything. And never will. 

 

You are so loved, you are allowed to believed that you are not loved. The reason is very simple. Because you can never be seperated from that which God, never disconnected, so the way is always open, even through your hate or blame, the way is always wide and open.

 

So this temporary hell you create for yourself, will always feel bad. So that means we will all eventually just let go of it and stop doing that. Even if that means, that you wont let go, untill you die. Then that still makes it an insignificant temporary suffering, which is immeasurably small and insignificant compared to your true nature of eternal and infinite being and becoming evermore, and the value of all of that which you truely are, which you can always, unconditionally, meaning under any and all conditions, allow into your life more fully, always here and now. 

 

But in plain physics. You can fear or hate all you want, but eventually you'll be tired of fearing or hating. And since your true nature, and God, is always right here and now for you, always readily available to you, always loving and guiding you, along the path of least resistance towards your very own evermore unique full blown evermore realisation of anything and all things that you can ever want to be, do or have... Well? ....all you gotta do is let go, and let god. No need to hate the fear nor fear the hate. Just drop everything, and everything will simply naturally and effortlessly work out fine again. Doing nothing, leaving nothing undone. Because it is all always already perfect and becoming better evermore. You drop these fears and hatreds, just so that you can open up your perception to all the goodness of your life and all life, so that you can consciously allow and allow yourself to enjoy these things into your life, of who it is you truely are, always have been and will be the evermore becoming of the ever more of it, ever more. 

 

And the important part, that God cares about, is How do you allow? You simply feel your way to the allowing. If you think every human is evil, and feel bad. Then think about the goodness of all humans. Focus your thoughts there, untill these thoughts naturally are allowed to expand, for your own full blown realisation of the evermore greater truth of all of that, then you feel good, and then you have acces to the knowledge of God. Because then you will be knowing what God knows. So in a sense, you are flowing your full true being through you, which is the energy which creates worlds. And the feeling of well-being, worthiness, and joy is immense. And all you did, is help the flawed thought allow you to feel the flawed, literally energetically self - contradictory nature of that thought, which feels like negative emotion. And help that redirect you to the thought which is in harmony with all that you are, and all that god is and all that all of creation is, always here and now. 

 

 

Easy and effortless, enjoyable. Natural. And obvious. Challenging? Maybe at first, if you're very used to thinking thoughts which are not compatible with your true nature. Then often it seems easier to just to continue to do that, even tho it is more difficult and painful. The challenge is just that first step, to focus on what you do want. As in the goodness of humans, in this example. And that simple small challenge is a fun challenge. Because the reward is immeasurably great. To feel good, to be in energetic alignment with the Source of All Creation. And to take on the quest to focus your mind on something you naturally are designed to enjoy the focusing upon it, and feel the good feeling naturally effortlessly allowed expansion of your full blown realisation of all the evermore greater truth you have acces to? You gotta be completely berserking bunkers to refuse that. 

 

And most humans are completely berserking bunkers. Very often. But not all of the time. For even the most resistant of humans, their true nature always shines forth through them, if only unconsciously on many occasions. Untill their consciousness activates their resistance, as they've been used to doing that. To consciously release resistance, is worth everything. And simple plain man terms, that simply means, to allow yourself to feel better. However you will or want to accomplish your allowing of that. As there is nothing wrong with being God virgin, untill you die. Many people do that. It is just one of the many ways that creation has of coming to know itself from all the different points of view that creation is. And you are always free to explore any aspect of infinite creation you so wish, ever more. Including the one where you simply allow your thoughts to align with that of the Source of All Creation. By virtue of your focused allowed contemplation, in harmony with your ability to feel your thoughts energetic alignment/misalignment by virtue of your ability to feel your emotions. 

Edited July 19, 2019 by Everything

[rideforever]

11 hours ago, Fa Xin said:

What do you think the end sum of such transformational practices is though? A Continuation of anger?

 

Well I think it's important to consider the details, a simpleminded view of it would just lead to foolishness, as I described earlier.

 

But of course the end result is that you become yourself, and stop pretending to be other than what you are.

Humans don't just suffer from problems, but from continuously the same problems for their whole lives - this has to stop.

The self-aversion must end.

Meaning you consciously embody all the energies of your being.

Hence embrace the earth and heaven will follow,

 

It may be true that torturing yourself can lead to awakening, but it often doesn't, though if it works for you, so be it.

With all paths a careful examination of the details and pitfalls and intentions is required as well as practical experience.

Probably we need the contrast of opposites for our intelligence to grow, some self-torture, and some self-acceptance.

 

In fact the last moment of Buddha's path was him touching the earth, because he questioned whether he was worthy to become himself.

 

[rideforever]

3 hours ago, Everything said:

Doing nothing, leaving nothing undone.

 

Exactly which means when being angry, let anger be.

Don't interfere.

 

[neti neti]

13 hours ago, Nungali said:

 

 

 

What should I be so angry   about  ?

 

Obviously, you should be Angry, about not REALLY being Angry. So, just own it already!

 

Now I'm all worked up about this blatant yet thinly veiled emotional hypocrisy of mine. Time for the punching bag! 

[rideforever]

And there's more !

 

In order to teach people with little self knowledge about wisdom, such examples are used ... anger is wrong, pacifism is right.   These contrasts between what is good and what is bad.   

It is a coarse way of teaching, but it is okay for beginners, but eventually you should migrate to more intelligent approaches to life.

However it can become a "dead form", where only the coarse ideas remain and the path does not remain.

The coarse polarities of good and bad, of self-repression, are an attempt to isolate an understanding, or to restrict your energies, in such a way that you can awaken.

But after awakening, meaning embodying your emotions and identity, then you can finally release all your temporary scaffoldings, your spiritual judgements, and then allow it all just to be as it is.   Life flows but you are awake.

Nevertheless on this planet any approach that works is acceptable even self-torture, but it is far from a natural understanding of things.

 

 

That story about Buddha laughing ... in fact he "smiled".  The story is :

Mahādhana. The son of the Treasurer of Benares. His parents possessed eighty crores, and, for all education, he learnt music and singing. He married the daughter of an equally rich family and of similar education. After the death of their parents, they were very rich. One night, as the husband was on his way from the palace, some knaves tempted him to drink. He soon fell a victim to the habit and all his wealth was squandered. Then he spent his wife's money, and finally sold all his belongings, and used to go about begging, a potsherd in his hand. One day the Buddha, seeing him waiting outside the refectory for leavings of food, smiled. In answer to Ananda, who asked him the reason for his smile, the Buddha said that there was a man who had had the power of becoming chief Treasurer or attaining arahantship, if he did but use his opportunities, but he was now reduced to beggary, like a heron in a dried up pond. DhA.iii.129ff.

 

Edited July 19, 2019 by rideforever