Forgiveness and Condemnation

[Aetherous]

I just liked putting these two verses (in blue) from the New Testament side by side:

"If you forgive the sins of any, they are forgiven them; if you withhold forgiveness from any, it is withheld.” - John 20:23

 

It's interesting to consider that we might have an actual effect on liberating a person, versus charging them with what they've done wrong...perhaps especially if we've reached a certain level of spiritual development, or grace.

These days, it seems for me, the number of people doing things which are hard to forgive has increased. Or maybe I just need to practice more loving-kindness and compassion every day.

 

"For with the judgment you pronounce you will be judged, and with the measure you use it will be measured to you." - Matthew 7:2

 

When we charge them with their wrongdoings, with the real effect it has on them receiving punishment from heaven...we are liable to be held to our same standard.

 

No hypocrites!

[Fa Xin]

Great topic and well put! 

 

This, in my opinion, is one the highest teachings of Jesus... the forgiveness of everyone for everything. I’ve found not an easy thing to practice...but definitely worth continued contemplation. 

 

Another thing that comes to mind: when I condemn or blame someone for something... it usually weighs heavy on my heart afterwards - even if they were “in the wrong.” I carry it with me. Perhaps this is one small example of the measure coming back to me. 

[Aetherous]

10 minutes ago, Fa Xin said:

Another thing that comes to mind: when I condemn or blame someone for something... it usually weighs heavy on my heart afterwards - even if they were “in the wrong.” I carry it with me. Perhaps this is one small example of the measure coming back to me. 

 

Brilliant point. The condemnation we hold does hurt us, whereas the guilty party probably doesn't even notice a thing, and is just on their merry way.

 

I just had a thought...

 

There may be a difference between being appointed as a judge over others (literally a job as a judge...or perhaps spiritually that position exists, as well), versus simply being offended at things. A judge has a duty to make or oversee a decision, and is generally dispassionate and not personally affected. They consider the entire community's wellbeing, while at the same time being fair and not overly punishing a person for disliking who they are or what they did.

 

Whereas being offended at things, it's not really our place to decide whether a person is innocent or guilty and what their punishment should be (that's up to God, or karma, or whatever happens to them). We are passionate and took something personally, and are personally affected in some way, and so unable to see the big picture. We're considering our own standards of conduct, which someone neglected and offended us by, rather than primarily thinking of the wellbeing of others whom we're responsible for. And we often wish the worst on people for the slightest wrongs (such as cutting us off in traffic, stopping suddenly when walking in front of us down a street without being aware of who's behind them, being rude or inconsiderate, etc).

 

While I often consider the state of our world and society, and think of the community, when it comes to people committing wrongs...to be honest I'm often just personally offended, and not in an actual position of being a judge.

 

12 minutes ago, Fa Xin said:

one the highest teachings of Jesus... the forgiveness of everyone for everything. I’ve found not an easy thing to practice

 

Not easy is right! LOL. I'm super bad at even attempting to forgive most people I come across, much less everyone.

 

Who can be perfect?

"for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God" - Romans 3:23

"Who is like God?" https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Quis_ut_Deus%3F

“Let him who is without sin among you be the first to throw a stone at her.” - John 8:7

But I don't think being an imperfect human is a good excuse for not attempting. Perhaps I should try harder, by setting aside time to practice. I really have had great results sometimes with the Tibetan Buddhist teachings of loving-kindness and compassion.

It's often just easier to hate and condemn someone for an obvious wrong they did, than it is to practice and improve the situation, and forgive and forget the wrong.

[rideforever]

Why bother.  Watching people hurt each other whilst sitting on a bench mulling over how self-righteous you will be today and forgive them from your seat ?
Is it of value ? 

Maybe not.

Better than printing tickets with a score from 0 to 10, and giving them to people you meet and to yourself ... why not just surrender to God quietly ?

[Fa Xin]

6 minutes ago, Aetherous said:

 

Brilliant point. The condemnation we hold does hurt us, whereas the guilty party probably doesn't even notice a thing, and is just on their merry way.

 

I just had a thought...

 

There may be a difference between being appointed as a judge over others (literally a job as a judge...or perhaps spiritually that position exists, as well), versus simply being offended at things. A judge has a duty to make or oversee a decision, and is generally dispassionate and not personally affected. They consider the entire community's wellbeing, while at the same time being fair and not overly punishing a person for disliking who they are or what they did.

 

Whereas being offended at things, it's not really our place to decide whether a person is innocent or guilty and what their punishment should be (that's up to God, or karma, or whatever happens to them). We are passionate and took something personally, and are personally affected in some way, and so unable to see the big picture. We're considering our own standards of conduct, which someone neglected and offended us by, rather than primarily thinking of the wellbeing of others whom we're responsible for. And we often wish the worst on people for the slightest wrongs (such as cutting us off in traffic, stopping suddenly when walking in front of us down a street without being aware of who's behind them, being rude or inconsiderate, etc).

 

While I often consider the state of our world and society, and think of the community, when it comes to people committing wrongs...to be honest I'm often just personally offended, and not in an actual position of being a judge.

 

 

Not easy is right! LOL. I'm super bad at even attempting to forgive most people I come across, much less everyone.

 

Who can be perfect?

"for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God" - Romans 3:23

"Who is like God?" https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Quis_ut_Deus%3F

“Let him who is without sin among you be the first to throw a stone at her.” - John 8:7

But I don't think being an imperfect human is a good excuse for not attempting. Perhaps I should try harder, by setting aside time to practice. I really have had great results sometimes with the Tibetan Buddhist teachings of loving-kindness and compassion.

It's often just easier to hate and condemn someone for an obvious wrong they did, than it is to practice and improve the situation, and forgive and forget the wrong.

 

I, too, have practiced loving-kindness and find it helps in empathizing with others.  Empathy to me, is recognizing what is in you, is the same as that which is within me.  I think empathy has a lot to do with forgiveness... the ability to put yourself into another person's shoes, and realize we "all have sinned and fall short"... that their situation maybe is not so different from ours at one time or another.  

 

I've heard it said that "If you hate others for the evil they do, you are bitten by the same venomous snake as them."  Something about that sticks with me...

Or as my mom used to say, "Two wrongs don't make a right"

[Fa Xin]

10 minutes ago, rideforever said:

Why bother.  Watching people hurt each other whilst sitting on a bench mulling over how self-righteous you will be today and forgive them from your seat ?

 

For me, it's more about freeing myself from the burden of carrying around bitterness.

 

10 minutes ago, rideforever said:

why not just surrender to God quietly ?

 

Good idea 

Edited July 21, 2019 by Fa Xin

[Aetherous]

24 minutes ago, rideforever said:

Watching people hurt each other whilst sitting on a bench mulling over how self-righteous you will be today and forgive them from your seat ?
Is it of value ? 

 

That's definitely not of value.

[rideforever]

We are very concerned with other people.   We want to be like by them, we are offended by them, judge them, we want to save them, or forgive them.

Really what the hell for, what is all this ?

What a total waste of time.

I can't imagine how much of life is flushed into the toilet on such stupidity.

What the hell for ?

Boredom ?  Is it simply boredom ?  Have we nothing else to do ?
Do we live and do nothing because we are bums ?

Waiting for death with a little entertainment ?
Who really cares about "other people".

Who knows who they are, what they do, why they do.
I have no idea who they are.

Is it all totally stupid and destructive - sure it is. 

Sure, it's a disaster.

 

Now the inner work is ever ready and ever ripe - we gonna do it or not ?

 

[Fa Xin]

9 minutes ago, rideforever said:

We are very concerned with other people.   We want to be like by them, we are offended by them, judge them, we want to save them, or forgive them.

Really what the hell for, what is all this ?

What a total waste of time.

I can't imagine how much of life is flushed into the toilet on such stupidity.

What the hell for ?

Boredom ?  Is it simply boredom ?  Have we nothing else to do ?
Do we live and do nothing because we are bums ?

Waiting for death with a little entertainment ?
Who really cares about "other people".

Who knows who they are, what they do, why they do.
I have no idea who they are.

Is it all totally stupid and destructive - sure it is. 

Sure, it's a disaster.

 

Now the inner work is ever ready and ever ripe - we gonna do it or not ?

 

 

Does your inner work have nothing to do with others?

[silent thunder]

The one set free in the action of forgiveness is not the perpetrator, but The Forgiver.

My Mother condemned my Father's behaviors for decades after their divorce.  I would see her spin over his abhorrent actions.  It ruined perfectly fine afternoons for her and affected him not a whit.  He was on his boat enjoying life, while she labored in the painful abhorrence of judgement and condemnation.

 

When she forgave him, her demeanor shifted, weights were schluffed off and she was the one set free.

 

The condemning mind, the mind that condemns 'the world's failings', condemns all... (self included, though not often consciously).  In my experience condemning mind is the dissociative condemning of self via projection onto others what we loathe in self but won't face openly.   A selective acknowledgement of loathed aspects of self through the safety of dissociative projected judgement of other's behavior that is not yet acknowledgable as self generated.

 

What is loathed in self draws keen focus in the actions of others.  Most vehement condemnation reserved for those aspects of others that mirror what is truly loathed within, though rarely, if ever, acknowledged consciously as arising within as present in experienced self.

 

Condemning others is a manner to engage what i loathe within... without admitting to it and engaging this acknowledgement of self directly.  It offers a degree of separation that is as comforting as it is damaging to self in my experience.  For in the inability to forgive and let go in others, i create an energetic transaction of non-forgiveness within.  Working with forgiveness of others and cessation of condemnation is a manner of opening a way to acknowledge and eventually forgive self in the process of unfolding and exploring true nature.

 

The conginitive dissonance of this non=acknowledgement resonates for me, most often below the threshold of conscious awareness and thus seems to exist and is perceived only in others.  Very unpleasant to engage, so easily it renders itself to projective dissociation and the cycle of self abuse begins and is maintained in perpetuity unless an interrupt signal presents and we do not flee the acknowledgement.   

 

Cessation of condemning 'others' for me, is the beginning of cessation of condemning one's own failings and loathed aspects.  The crack that lets the forgiveness in.  By first intending to release judgement of others, a signal is generated that forgiveness is possible.

 

Forgiveness releases the forgiver, not the forgiven, in my experience. 

 

Condemnation, judgement, resentment, abhorrence all arise within and this is what dissolves when forgiveness arises... freeing the forgiver. 

Edited July 21, 2019 by silent thunder
deleted erroneous word

[Aetherous]

2 hours ago, silent thunder said:

The one set free in the action of forgiveness is not the perpetrator, but The Forgiver.

 

While I think that's true... this is the occult section, and perhaps for some people their punishments go into effect in the objective world, and impact the guilty parties in some way.

 

...but really, come back upon their own heads.

It's good to forgive and be open.

But I think, it's also even more important to be honest...KNOW THYSELF. No one is perfect, especially with forgiveness. Feel free to admit it here.

[Mskied]

I wanted to post on this topic because, while I do believe that we will be assessed by how we assess and react, I think too that it involves the extent of our own ignorance, for what I encounter, I respond to- and imitate, and I will recall my own actions and the development of them from past experiences.  It is good psychic practice to reconcile, and to be just and to be merciful, because it cleans the air around you- hate is a dark cloud, and that cloud manifests by your anger.  You will draw darkness if you dwell in it, whether out of anger, or ignorance.