Are there any other leftists here? 👀

[sean]

NOTE: This is not going to be a debate topic. I stopped debating right-wing dipshits many years ago for literally the same reason I don't argue with small children. Don't post right-wing bullshit in this topic. I'm in a mood and you've been warned.

 

I'm curious if there are any actual leftists on this forum?

 

To be clear, I don't mean neoliberal or "progressive" Democrats. I mean bonafide anti-fascists, left-anarchists, left-libertarians, Marxists, socialists or communists.

 

I haven't been active on here in years. (Short story: I fell in love, crisscrossed the country twice, leveled-up my engineering career, got married, bought a house in a new town, adopted an enormous dog.)

 

It's been incredibly disheartening to see that many of the loudest, most active voices here are right-wing reactionaries and conspiracy theory bros. Frankly, it makes the entire forum feel juvenile and toxic to me.

 

I can barely imagine wanting to share anything in this environment, let alone intimate, personal details of my spiritual practice.

 

Is this just what happens to online communities post-Trump now? The vulnerable aliveness slinks away slowly from the boorish spectacle, slipping quietly out the back door?

 

Trying times y'all. I remember often hearing this trope when I was young that I would eventually "grow out of" being a lefty. At 43 now it appears the prophecies were mistaken. I've only grown from Chomsky to Kropotkin to Marx. (With a cringe laissez-faire libertarian phase in there somewhere.)

 

Hi, my name is Sean. I'm a leftist. 👋

 

I read a ton but also (hopefully) avoid retreating into purely theoretical astronautics. "If it's not accessible to the poor, then it's neither revolutionary nor is it radical." My perspective continually evolves, but "anarcho-communist" is a shoe that fits well enough.

 

I'm active in community politics and not ideologically opposed to involvement in electoral politics. I vote for the least garbage candidates both nationally and locally. I don't shame people who conscientiously abstain from voting. I think pressuring the generally shitty, center-right led Democratic party leftward is worthwhile even if only as an exercise in shifting the Overton window and organizing solidarity. On a national scale, I believe universal healthcare is a medium-term fight worth focusing on given its populist support and massive capacity to reduce human suffering and death.

 

So, that's a bit about my politics. Any other leftist comrades hiding out here? I'd love to hear from you. Also, feel free to PM me if you're not yet ready to come out as a commie infidel. 😆

 

Sean

 

 

[gendao]

16 hours ago, sean said:

It's been incredibly disheartening to see that many of the loudest, most active voices here are right-wing reactionaries and conspiracy theory bros. Frankly, it makes the entire forum feel juvenile and toxic to me.

Yea, the vocal majority here definitely shifted from mainstream liberals to alt-right over the last election...
 

My own perspective has also expanded since then and I now view both as mechanistic colonialists working furiously to replace Earth Mother Nature with their technological singularity and implement the "Mark of the Beast" for global control per their exopolitical Rep/Grey agenda.  The alt-right is relatively worse than liberals in their zeal for trashing the environment to "MAGA"...but really only aborigines truly respected the land ecospiritually and lived off of it sustainably for millenia.  And most of them already got killed off by their Christian "saviors" long ago...just like most other life on the planet.  Meanwhile, the fact that the whole WIRED mentality and lifestyle of modern convenience IS causing the planet's 6th mass extinction of wildlife and flora is not even a talking point/concern in any of their platforms/debates.

Edited July 25, 2019 by gendao

[Chang]

No need for concern Sean as there are still Socialists and Left Wing Liberals a plenty left in the forum; though the Dao Bums, as with society in general, is now experiencing a healthy shift to the right.

 

One could use the example of Apech. Once a firm supporter of all things left wing, liberal, multi ethnic and multi racial his firm beliefs appear to have been shaken in recent years, at least that is how i see it but if he thinks differently then I am sure he will let us know.

[laughingblade]

Hi my name is Rich, and I'm a leftist. I'm in the UK, so socialism, equality of opportunity, NHS, social care, workers rights etc.

 

It's weird to see good, insightful posts from people in the main forums, who I then see also hold strong right-wing views. I wonder where the development of compassion got left behind. Mind you, I see it IRL as well where seemingly reasonable people with apparently healthy cultivation/meditation practices dive right down the conspiracy rabbit-holes at the earliest opportunity. The result is that I no longer trust peoples' insights, and have to take more care to investigate practice as-it-is instead of taking things on more face value.

 

Rich

[Earl Grey]

6 hours ago, sean said:

Don't post right-wing bullshit in this topic

 

6 hours ago, sean said:

It's been incredibly disheartening to see that many of the loudest, most active voices here are right-wing reactionaries and conspiracy theory bros. Frankly, it makes the entire forum feel juvenile and toxic to me.

 

6 hours ago, sean said:

I can barely imagine wanting to share anything in this environment, let alone intimate, personal details of my spiritual practice.

 

Is this just what happens to online communities post-Trump now? The vulnerable aliveness slinks away slowly from the boorish spectacle, slipping quietly out the back door?

 

 

Thank you so much, Sean. It's been a real turn-off and I've seen a lot of bullying here too as a result of it to the point people who disagree with my politics will bother me in other threads, including my PPJ, which should be personal space really. I just wanted to start this off now before answering the rest of your points.

 

I'll be sending you a PM eventually on my thoughts about the forum as it's no longer safe or advisable to say some of the things that I once used to say so freely here. If I was able to speak glowingly about the community and admin before though, I can't say I have kept that sentiment since the past year and a half, save for a few good individuals who remain.

 

6 hours ago, sean said:

So, that's a bit about my politics. Any other leftist comrades hiding out here? I'd love to hear from you. Also, feel free to PM me if you're not yet ready to come out as a commie infidel. 😆

 

I find it hard to really define my politics, but I've found myself inadvertently more of a "Leftist" as the polarities and extremes of the political spectrums diverge greatly. 

 

The easiest way for me to define my own views would be a quote from esteemed writer Alan Moore's V for Vendetta, the graphic novel, not the film, in that I'm an anarchist in the "do what you please" sense rather than the "take what you want" sense that precedes it. But even then, some of my views are not strictly Left even if most of my experience tends to drift in that direction. For example, I am not a fan of current Political Correctness culture that somehow is being tossed into the blender and being associated with Leftist politics along with other social justice movements, so to me, "Left" has to be defined carefully since most will think of the contemporary Left rather than theoretical Left. 

 

Those views of mine also come from studying international development, which I will put myself on the line to say that while the Liberal model espoused by a lot of development niche academics to describe inequality, poverty, and economic growth is not derived from Marxian theory, it ends up inadvertently reinforcing Marx's teachings. 

 

To show you an example of how my own "Left" views are still challenged by others who would consider themselves Leftists, I once posted here about my work in development and a long post on colonialism and scamming from NGOs was one of the responses from a member here, who somehow didn't take into account a lot of organizations I work with are primarily local stakeholders with some foreign entities involved who have at best shareholder interests but never the final word on decisions we make (I've worked with the UN and the Peace Corps along with some medium and small-sized NGOs and the differences are quite noticeable). So that member focused on their view that "NGOs enslave people and it's another word for colonialism" but I as a development professional can say that the global model and the structure of the NGOs I worked in had nothing to do with colonialism as the stakeholders in those countries were the ones who led their growth (particularly in Cambodia and Sri Lanka) and all HQ did in Richmond, Virginia was to sign the checks and raise funds for us. That member and I would be considered both Leftists by this forum's Right, but we couldn't be more different from each other in our views, values, professional training, and where they come from. 

 

Another point I bring up is where I currently live (Manila), there's a very interesting relationship with the Left here because of communist guerrillas and a leader who is exiled in the Netherlands now, but most people think of the Left here as keyboard warriors complaining about social justice but have never read anything of the classic canon, which irritates them if I bring up any of it. 

 

So like my training (or as some Right Wingers here will say "indoctrination"), I didn't choose to be Leftist and will never be a card-carrying member, but I've inadvertently held views that align with the classical definition rather than the modern one lumped in with other social causes previously unrelated. 

[Apech]

2 hours ago, Chang said:

No need for concern Sean as there are still Socialists and Left Wing Liberals a plenty left in the forum; though the Dao Bums, as with society in general, is now experiencing a healthy shift to the right.

 

One could use the example of Apech. Once a firm supporter of all things left wing, liberal, multi ethnic and multi racial his firm beliefs appear to have been shaken in recent years, at least that is how i see it but if he thinks differently then I am sure he will let us know.

 

Well!  So kind of you to speak for me, Chang.

 

My views haven't changed at all, not even slightly.  I don't put labels on myself but I think most people would put me on the left, I vote Labour in the UK.  I am definitely socially liberal and ... well what exactly do you mean between multi-ethnic and multi-racial isn't that the same thing??? Anyway I'm happy with that also - no problem at all. 

 

Nice to see you posting again, Sean.

Edited July 25, 2019 by Apech

[Chang]

6 minutes ago, Apech said:

 

Well!  So kind of you to speak for me, Chang.

 

My views haven't changed at all, not even slightly.  I don't put labels on myself but I think most people would put me on the left, I vote Labour in the UK.  I am definitely socially liberal and ... well what exactly do you mean between multi-ethnic and multi-racial isn't that the same thing??? Anyway I'm happy with that also - no problem at all. 

 

Nice to see you posting again, Sean.

 

Good man Apech for you are as constant as the Northern Star and I apologise for suggesting that your views may have changed.

[Apech]

3 minutes ago, Chang said:

 

Good man Apech for you are as constant as the Northern Star and I apologise for suggesting that your views may have changed.

 

Something to ponder:

 

 

[windwalker]

8 hours ago, sean said:

NOTE: This is not going to be a debate topic. I stopped debating right-wing dipshits many years ago for literally the same reason I don't argue with small children. Don't post right-wing bullshit in this topic. I'm in a mood and you've been warned.

 

You sound like a left-wing dipshit.  

 

 posting viewpoints on a public board warning others to limit theirs. 

[Dynasty]

5 minutes ago, windwalker said:

posting viewpoints on a public board warning others to limit theirs. 

 

That's the only way left wing dipshits can win. Through censoring, bullying and violence.

 

"How dare you have a different opinion than me. I'm in a mood and you say something I don't like I'm going to clock you over the head with a bicycle lock you fascist!"

 

The tides are turning. And the left wing dipshits will be forced back underground where they belong.

 

[joeblast]

8 hours ago, sean said:

NOTE: This is not going to be a debate topic. I stopped debating right-wing dipshits many years ago for literally the same reason I don't argue with small children. Don't post right-wing bullshit in this topic. I'm in a mood and you've been warned.

 

I'm curious if there are any actual leftists on this forum?

 

To be clear, I don't mean neoliberal or "progressive" Democrats. I mean bonafide anti-fascists, left-anarchists, left-libertarians, Marxists, socialists or communists.

 

I haven't been active on here in years. (Short story: I fell in love, crisscrossed the country twice, leveled-up my engineering career, got married, bought a house in a new town, adopted an enormous dog.)

 

It's been incredibly disheartening to see that many of the loudest, most active voices here are right-wing reactionaries and conspiracy theory bros. Frankly, it makes the entire forum feel juvenile and toxic to me.

 

I can barely imagine wanting to share anything in this environment, let alone intimate, personal details of my spiritual practice.

 

Is this just what happens to online communities post-Trump now? The vulnerable aliveness slinks away slowly from the boorish spectacle, slipping quietly out the back door?

 

Trying times y'all. I remember often hearing this trope when I was young that I would eventually "grow out of" being a lefty. At 43 now it appears the prophecies were mistaken. I've only grown from Chomsky to Kropotkin to Marx. (With a cringe laissez-faire libertarian phase in there somewhere.)

 

Hi, my name is Sean. I'm a leftist. 👋

 

I read a ton but also (hopefully) avoid retreating into purely theoretical astronautics. "If it's not accessible to the poor, then it's neither revolutionary nor is it radical." My perspective continually evolves, but "anarcho-communist" is a shoe that fits well enough.

 

I'm active in community politics and not ideologically opposed to involvement in electoral politics. I vote for the least garbage candidates both nationally and locally. I don't shame people who conscientiously abstain from voting. I think pressuring the generally shitty, center-right led Democratic party leftward is worthwhile even if only as an exercise in shifting the Overton window and organizing solidarity. On a national scale, I believe universal healthcare is a medium-term fight worth focusing on given its populist support and massive capacity to reduce human suffering and death.

 

So, that's a bit about my politics. Any other leftist comrades hiding out here? I'd love to hear from you. Also, feel free to PM me if you're not yet ready to come out as a commie infidel. 😆

 

Sean

 

 

Hey Sean, we got along great when we hung out a dozen years ago, but of course, the world wasnt quite at the cusp of knowing how corrupt and evil its upper echelons are and we werent discussing the problems of the world at that time.  It didnt even matter, which was the great part!  I'm glad things have gone well for you. 

 

As to "Conspiracy Theories"...the world has been awash in them for quite some time, and no more staunch peddlers of them then the MSM itself.  I think that much is being continually revealed at this point.  So the issue really lies in the fact that "the most trusted names" were bought off a long time ago.  These arent really conspiracy theories any longer.  The infiltration of governments, bureaucracies, corporations, universities by the transnational criminal organizations - should really not be in question at this point.  It winds up being that "Mueller's gonna get Trump" was nothing but a conspiracy theory based upon sedition and treason.  If you havent realized these details yet...well I'm sure there's plenty who havent yet, but I'm like 98+% correct on all of these Trump happenings, it can be taken to the bank.

 

Its sad to see folks clam up for being fearful of their thoughts.  Be who you are, and there's no reason to hide that.  I'ye am what I'ye am, I wear this meat suit proudly, it is what it is and I'm not apologetic or fearful whatsoever for it - I stand by my convictions, I stand by my perspective of calling balls & strikes as an impartial umpire would.

 

Which is exactly the approach that brought you to call yourself a leftist, I'd wager.  (I dont call myself a rightey, I dont really even identify with the L<>R paradigm whatsoever, its just a dividing tactic.)

 

To me, juvenile is throwing a fit over something someone said because I might not agree with it.  The adult approach is to discuss openly and honestly and filters be damned, what use are they except when you're in the company of those seeking to be offended by something.

 

Honestly I wish you posted more, because you're intelligent and have worthwhile perspectives, even though I disagree with things like breaking the US Constitution for healthcare feels   Universal Healthcare is a nice ideal to have, but as I've said to folks before, until you have that Star Trek level of tech to go with that Star Trek level of social services - then we have this big problem of there being a lot required of some people while there's jack required of others.  That's not to say we dont care for our young, old, sick, infirm - its just that for able bodied people, there's just no requirement to have society fully cover them and its nothing but opportunity for abuse.

 

Hopefully you do not interpret any of this post as "right wing bullshit" because its certainly not, from my chair.

 

Peace bro

Edited July 25, 2019 by joeblast

[dawei]

9 minutes ago, windwalker said:

You sound like a left-wing dipshit.  

 

 posting viewpoints on a public board warning others to limit theirs. 

 

For those who don't know... Sean is the forum owner

 

2 minutes ago, Dynasty said:

That's the only way left wing dipshits can win. Through censoring, bullying and violence.

 

"How dare you have a different opinion than me. I'm in a mood and you say something I don't like I'm going to clock you over the head with a bicycle lock you fascist!"

 

The tides are turning. And the left wing dipshits will be forced back underground where they belong.

 

The criticism leveled here is similar to what I've said in the past... that this could be leveled to both sides.  The answer isn't forcing anyone underground but to feel open to discussion.    such statements sound like bullying others to silence.

 

Like Apech, I don' like labels and never have used left vs right for myself; I don't even know several labels mentioned so far.   It was amusing when several of us took the political test and found we were in the middle or even slightly left but were being labeled as 'right'.    I'm not sure if that is because the shift has been further and further left and thus, center is technical 'right'.

[joeblast]

7 hours ago, gendao said:

Yea, the vocal majority here definitely shifted from mainstream liberals to alt-right over the last election...
 

My own perspective has also expanded since then and I now view both as mechanistic colonialists working furiously to replace Earth Mother Nature with their technological singularity and implement the "Mark of the Beast" for global control per their exopolitical Rep/Grey agenda.  The alt-right is relatively worse than liberals in their zeal for trashing the environment to "MAGA"...but really only aborigines truly respected the land ecospiritually and lived off of it sustainably for millenia.  And most of them already got killed off by their Christian "saviors" long ago...  Meanwhile, the fact that the whole WIRED mentality and lifestyle of modern convenience is causing the planet's 6th mass extinction of wildlife and flora is not even a talking point/concern in any of their platforms/debates.

 

It was why I had a good hard laugh when some folks out there had a problem with Trump's proposal to clean up the plastic island in the pacific - why, an ecosystem's sprung up around it, and we'd kill it off if we cleaned it up! 

 

I'm all for a clean environment, and contrary to what some might think, I'm also the type of guy who picks up trash when he goes on a hike.

 

I think the "alt-right" just by and large kept their mouths quiet..."silent majority"...

 

But the problem is I looked into James Hansen's soul and saw it was corrupt, and there's been such a focus on the conjecture, at the expense of real environmental efforts.

 

It was nice to see the annual cleanup scuba dive down in Florida last week or so, they removed a couple tons of trash from the sea floor.

 

 

2 hours ago, laughingblade said:

Hi my name is Rich, and I'm a leftist. I'm in the UK, so socialism, equality of opportunity, NHS, social care, workers rights etc.

 

It's weird to see good, insightful posts from people in the main forums, who I then see also hold strong right-wing views. I wonder where the development of compassion got left behind. Mind you, I see it IRL as well where seemingly reasonable people with apparently healthy cultivation/meditation practices dive right down the conspiracy rabbit-holes at the earliest opportunity. The result is that I no longer trust peoples' insights, and have to take more care to investigate practice as-it-is instead of taking things on more face value.

 

Rich

It winds up being less compassionate to everyone else when the able bodied are allowed to continue sucking the teat - animal mothers take care of that by not letting the "not young anymore" suckle (which is then followed by less ambiguous messages of I'm not taking care of you any longer, its time for you to take care of yourself.)  There's nothing compassionate about enabling helplessness.  The actually helpless?  That's a different story.

 

At the earliest opportunity is funny, because it was years of looking at things before I understood what I was looking at.

Edited July 25, 2019 by joeblast

[dawei]

9 hours ago, sean said:

I'm active in community politics and not ideologically opposed to involvement in electoral politics. I vote for the least garbage candidates both nationally and locally. I don't shame people who conscientiously abstain from voting. I think pressuring the generally shitty, center-right led Democratic party leftward is worthwhile even if only as an exercise in shifting the Overton window and organizing solidarity. On a national scale, I believe universal healthcare is a medium-term fight worth focusing on given its populist support and massive capacity to reduce human suffering and death.

 

So, that's a bit about my politics. Any other leftist comrades hiding out here? I'd love to hear from you. Also, feel free to PM me if you're not yet ready to come out as a commie infidel. 😆

 

So, to used this section as a discussion point:   I'm not active in either level.  I think folks should vote but can't blame them for not.   But there should not be any games by either side to intimidate folks from voting.   I also think it is in very bad taste to insult a block of voters that the candidate actually needs to win on some level. 

 

I don't mind a shift in any direction as long as it makes some sense.   I personally don't see how the US would foot the bill for free education and healthcare.   I could see supporting something limited like for the poorest.  I wish Obamacare had first only focused on the poorest and got the insurance companies comfortable and get it working and phase in other offerings over time.  

 

In our household, my chinese wife is the commie infidel... and she loves Xi and Trump      I won't mention her views on Mao 

[Dynasty]

7 minutes ago, dawei said:

Like Apech, I don' like labels and never have used left vs right for myself; I don't even know several labels mentioned so far.   It was amusing when several of us took the political test and found we were in the middle or even slightly left but were being labeled as 'right'.    I'm not sure if that is because the shift has been further and further left and thus, center is technical 'right'.

 

The majority of us are all center leaning slightly left or right.

 

But anyone expressing sentiments for communism and anarchism.... Anarchism will lead to communism. But anarchists really aren't that bright so they will be used by the communists for their political goals.

[sean]

3 hours ago, laughingblade said:

Hi my name is Rich, and I'm a leftist. I'm in the UK, so socialism, equality of opportunity, NHS, social care, workers rights etc.

 

Hey Rich! ✊

 

Quote

Mind you, I see it IRL as well where seemingly reasonable people with apparently healthy cultivation/meditation practices dive right down the conspiracy rabbit-holes at the earliest opportunity. The result is that I no longer trust peoples' insights, and have to take more care to investigate practice as-it-is instead of taking things on more face value.

 

I'm fascinated by the psychology behind what lures people into conspiracy theories. I think they're an incredibly seductive rut for certain temperaments. It also doesn't seem traditional spiritual practice does much to inoculate against, in fact maybe it leaves one more susceptible? ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

 

Thanks for sharing.

 

Sean

 

[rideforever]

When I was 20 I discovered Chomsky and photocopied a simple guide to his views of the world 100 times bound it and stood on the concourse of the university trying to warn everyone.  And I still adhere to his anarcho-syndicalist views, which are like a modern guild system.  And I have been to a communist meeting in London but found it poorly attended.

Having said that I think the right wing is the closest to this today, as it believes in the freedom of individuals ... although in a brutal way.

The left has long ago lost all its real roots and become an empty vessel.  The Left does not seem to believe that an individual is personally responsible and that giving people money will solve something ... well not much.

Your comments at the beginning are not good, what else to say ... beginning a conversation with slamming the door in people's faces, friend or foe.

 

But the really story in my opinion is the Corpocracy that is pushing the society degeneration, and behind them the billionaires.

Who is more likely to stand up to the Corpocracy ?

Well probably neither side, but the Left is worse.

 

[sean]

3 hours ago, Earl Grey said:

... I've found myself inadvertently more of a "Leftist" as the polarities and extremes of the political spectrums diverge greatly. 

 

😎

 

Quote

The easiest way for me to define my own views would be a quote from esteemed writer Alan Moore's V for Vendetta, the graphic novel, not the film, in that I'm an anarchist in the "do what you please" sense rather than the "take what you want" sense that precedes it.

 

Alan Moore's the shit, nice.

 

Quote

For example, I am not a fan of current Political Correctness culture that somehow is being tossed into the blender and being associated with Leftist politics along with other social justice movements, so to me, "Left" has to be defined carefully since most will think of the contemporary Left rather than theoretical Left.

 

Yeah, this is a good point. It's a strange bird. On one hand you have outright bigots that believe not being able to say racial and homophobic slurs at their workplace is "political correctness". But on the other I've also seen what I would consider extreme silliness from SJW types. I'm biased but think the latter is because SJW is not really an ideologically leftist movement. Yet their excesses are still used as a cudgel to fabricate some incoherent boogeyman of "postmodern cultural marxism" gone too far.

 

Sean

 

[Earl Grey]

16 minutes ago, sean said:

I'm biased but think the latter is because SJW is not really an ideologically leftist movement

 

It's not. There's a wonderful piece I read last year that described how the concept of "cultural Marxism" doesn't make sense because all sorts of social movements and contemporary values of "wokeness" are being associated with Marx, who has nothing to do with these.

 

It's "guilt by association" essentially due to the late 60s and 70s nonsense and the more extreme fringe groups who burned bras (but actually didn't) and loved Che Guevarra (but ignore how he became a little crazy near the end), and most of the ideological social movements associated with "wokeness" from cultural Marxism aren't even the same thing they used to be, not because they evolved, but because people miss the point; for example, if I like 90s riot grrl feminism (third wave) where people could have more of a Camille Paglia feminism slant and be sexual and comfortable in their own skin, today's fourth wave feminism that I have zero interest in is closer to Puritanism than anything else and influenced by the privilege of those using social media and access to technology.

 

Brent Staples had a wonderful essay a couple months ago on Women's Day talking about those roots in American women's suffrage and its relationship with race. 

 

On the subject of missing the point... 

 

16 minutes ago, sean said:

Alan Moore's the shit, nice.

 

Looking at Saga of the Swamp Thing, it's hard to deny he has some influences that include the Tao. Along with the aforementioned V for Vendetta, he has a wonderful antithesis with Miracleman in creating a totalitarian world to save people from themselves with a wonderful line: "You see a kid about to drink a bottle of laundry bleach and you sure as hell are gonna take his free will away, otherwise he ain't gonna see tomorrow!" which was great for discussion as was with all of his 80s pieces.

 

Sadly a lot of people missed the point about all of his deconstructionist work, especially Watchmen. Satirizing the grim and gritty was interpreted as celebrating it--totally not the point he was making.

 

His Bojeffries Saga by the way is highly recommended for people who experienced Thatcher. 

Edited July 25, 2019 by Earl Grey

[joeblast]

31 minutes ago, sean said:

 

I'm fascinated by the psychology behind what lures people into conspiracy theories. I think they're an incredibly seductive rut for certain temperaments. It also doesn't seem traditional spiritual practice does much to inoculate against, in fact maybe it leaves one more susceptible? ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

 

Thanks for sharing.

 

Sean

 

Is the search for truth any different between disciplines, at its most base level?  When I'm lied to, and its an important or life affecting lie - f that, I will want to know why, I will want to get to the bottom of it.  Its the same reason I used to take apart old broken radios when I was 5 or 6.  Deconstruct, how does this work.

 

If i'm given a story that's got more holes in it than great gramp's barn he built in the early 60s (and its still standing today!  good job, great gramp!) and knowable facts show that its just not all that likely to be true...

 

even something like pointing out that Justice Roberts' "its a tax" was clearly and unambiguously unconstitutional and the news says no, its ok, nothing wrong with that...its not like procedure prevents justices from making law, the proper way was to say "this is unconstitutional as written, but it'd be ok if it were worded as a tax"...but of course they werent doing that because then it would have a snowball's chance in hell of passing house & senate again - and they damned well knew that, which was why they had to lie cheat and steal to break the constitution as usual.

 

¯\_(ツ)_/¯

 

 

 

Spoiler

 

After half a dozen or so instances of this exact thing happening...I mean, really...conspiracy theory???  Only the misinformed think that about Q - because the guilty know its all too real and you dont do this accidentally over and over, upon request. 

 

It'd be nice to move on from the "conspiracy theorist" pejoratives and actually talk about subjects without MSM programming rearing its ugly head and people start mouthing the things that the MSM traitors are saying.  Its a logical fallacy to hand wave this subject away and say "uh, conspiracy theory."

Quote

These reporters and networks have been named in the WikiLeaks to have colluded with the DNC or Hillary campaign during the 2016 election cycle:
ABC – Cecilia Vega
ABC - David Muir
ABC – Diane Sawyer
ABC – George Stephanoplous
ABC – Jon Karl
ABC – Liz Kreutz
AP – Julie Pace
AP – Ken Thomas
AP – Lisa Lerer
AURN – April Ryan
Bloomberg – Jennifer Epstein
Bloomberg – John Heillman
Bloomberg/MSNBC – Jonathan Alter
Bloomberg – Mark Halperin
Buzzfeed – Ben Smith
Buzzfeed – Ruby Cramer
CBS – Gayle King
CBS – John Dickerson
CBS – Norah O'Donnell
CBS – Steve Chagaris
CBS – Vicki Gordon
CNBC – John Harwood
CNN – Brianna Keilar
CNN – Dan Merica
CNN – David Chailan
CNN – Erin Burnett
CNN – Gloria Borger
CNN – Jake Tapper
CNN – Jeff Zeleny
CNN - Jeff Zucker
CNN – John Berman
CNN – Kate Bouldan
CNN – Maria Cardona
CNN – Mark Preston
CNN – Sam Feist
Daily Beast – Jackie Kucinich
GPG – Mike Feldman
HuffPo – Amanda Terkel
HuffPo – Arianna Huffington
HuffPo – Sam Stein
HuffPo – Whitney Snyder
LAT – Evan Handler
LAT – Mike Memoli
McClatchy – Anita Kumar
MORE – Betsy Fisher Martin
MSNBC – Alex Seitz-Wald
MSNBC – Alex Wagner
MSNBC – Andrea Mitchell
MSNBC - Beth Fouhy
MSNBC – Ed Schultz
MSNBC – Joe Scarborough
MSNBC – Mika Brzezinski
MSNBC – Phil Griffin
MSNBC – Rachel Maddow
MSNBC – Rachel Racusen
MSNBC – Thomas Roberts
National Journal – Emily Schultheis
NBC – Chuck Todd
NBC – Mark Murray
NBC – Savannah Gutherie
New Yorker – David Remnick
New Yorker – Ryan Liza
NPR – Mike Oreskes
NPR – Tamara Keith
NY Post – Geofe Earl
NYT – Amy Chozik
NYT – Carolyn Ryan
NYT – Gail Collins
NYT – John Harwoodje
NYT – Jonathan Martin
NYT – Maggie Haberman
NYT – Pat Healey
PBS – Charlie Rose
People – Sandra Sobieraj Westfall
Politico – Annie Karni
Politico – Gabe Debenedetti
Politico – Glenn Thrush
Politico – Kenneth Vogel
Politico – Mike Allen
Reuters – Amanda Becker
Tina Brown – Tina Brown
The Hill – Amie Parnes
Univision – Maria-Elena Salinas
Vice – Alyssa Mastramonoco
Vox – Jon Allen
WaPo – Anne Gearan
WaPo – Greg Sargent
WSJ – Laura Meckler
WSJ – Peter Nicholas
WSJ – Colleen McCain Nelson
Yahoo – Matt Bai
THE BRIDGE: PODESTA GROUP
Bridge between media, FBI/DOJ, HRC+
Why did the Podesta Group close?
Public charges?
No?
Why close?
When did Huber start?
November?
JP/ Huma NOV.
Sealed.
Do they know?
Why did the Podesta group close?
Why no leaks?
Who else knows?
HRC deal request?
Why?
IG>Huber
Can IG disclose evidence in pending criminal cases in public disclosures/reports?
Why not?
Grand jury TAINT/BIAS?
Everyone has an opinion.
Clickbait.
Q

 

 

 

 

 

When one understands the transnational criminal organizations' effective infiltrations to the myriad points in the system, then the picture becomes a little more clear.  This whole hullaballo is because the operatives of the criminal orgs got messy, got caught and found out, and The Law is now coming after them. 

 

This left right stuff is kind of a whole separate matter aside from "conspiracy" stuff - because where things are really sensitive, even "right wing" news like Fox will have their people show their true colors when they absolutely have to...look at how many have burned their credibility that "used to have it" amongst "the right" like Kristol or Krauthammer or Napolitano or Shep, Riley, almost all of em. 

 

That just goes to show that the transnational criminal orgs have plants in both sides of the aisle, as many of us have pointed out.

Spoiler

Not seeking re-election in '18
[Senate]
Bob Corker - Republican
Jeff Flake - Republican
Orrin Hatch - Republican
No Name - Republican [Departure Soon]
[House]
Bill Shuster - Republican
Bob Goodlatte - Republican
Carol Shea-Porter - Democrat
Charles W. Dent - Republican
Darrell Issa - Republican
Dave Reichert - Republican
David Trott - Republican
Dennis Ross - Republican
Edward Royce - Republican
Elizabeth Esty - Democrat
Frank LoBiondo - Republican
Gene Green - Democrat
Gregg Harper - Republican
Ileana Ros-Lehtinen - Republican
Jeb Hensarling - Republican
Jim Bridenstine - Republican
Joe Barton - Republican
John Delaney - Democrat
John J. Duncan, Jr. - Republican
Lamar Smith - Republican
Luis V. Gutierrez - Democrat
Lynn Jenkins - Republican
Niki Tsongas - Democrat
Paul Ryan - Republican
Rick Nolan - Democrat
Robert Brady - Democrat
Rodney Frelinghuysen - Republican
Ruben J. Kihuen - Democrat
Ryan Costello - Republican
Sam Johnson - Republican
Sandy Levin - Democrat
Ted Poe - Republican
Thomas Rooney - Republican
Trey Gowdy - Republican
[Resigned]
Al Franken - Democratic U.S. Senate
Blake Farenthold - Republican U.S. House
Jason Chaffetz - Republican U.S. House
John Conyers, Jr. - Democrat U.S. House
Louise Slaughter - Democrat U.S. House
Patrick Meehan - Republican U.S. House
Patrick J. Tiberi - Republican U.S. House
Thad Cochran - Republican U.S. Senate
Tim Murphy - Republican U.S. House
Trent Franks - Republican U.S. House
Xavier Becerra - Democrat Attorney General of California

Normal?

 

 

So Sean, is this really borne of L<>R, or is this just a reaction from the MSM absolutely shitting their pants because the transnational criminal networks are being taken down, thus causing their agents to try and further widen the chasm between "Left and Right?" 

(and hence where the conspiracy theory stuff entered into this...)

(I'm sure you know the term was coined by none other than the transnational criminal orgs themselves...)

 

I cant wait for the traitors to be gone, just so that there's no more propaganda sources acting like impartial publishers, skewing the whole entire discussion - cuz this "ct" dismissal-rejection is just an excuse not to look at facts that are very unbecoming to the public faces of the transnational criminal orgs.

[ralis]

8 minutes ago, sean said:

 

😎

 

 

Alan Moore's the shit, nice.

 

 

Yeah, this is a good point. It's a strange bird. On one hand you have outright bigots that believe not being able to say racial and homophobic slurs at their workplace is "political correctness". But on the other I've also seen what I would consider extreme silliness from SJW types. I'm biased but think the latter is because SJW is not really an ideologically leftist movement. Yet their excesses are still used as a cudgel to fabricate some incoherent boogeyman of "postmodern cultural marxism" gone too far.

 

Sean

 

 

Hey Sean,

 

I am appreciative of your posting again after what seems like a long hiatus.

 

My views have evolved over the years since the 60's and the Vietnam War, left progressive in scope. Although, precisely defining my views at the moment would take too much time since I am working on a job proposal which is due in 4 hours.

 

I have backed away from most posting here for the very reason that extremist views have been promulgated here i.e, bigotry in all forms and in particular, the Trump threads.

 

I can send a PM when I have the time.

 

 

 

 

[sean]

I've found that people who claim they're "neither right nor left," especially U.S. citizens, are usually center-right at best. (And often worse, e.g., right-wing libertarians or crypto-antisemitic conspiracy-theorists.)

 

The political terms "left" and "right" have ideological meaning. Likewise "centrism" is not defined via an attempt to locate a compromised middle ground somewhere between right-wing Republican monsters and diet-right-wing corporatist Democrats.

 

The U.S. political spectrum is ideologically center-right to far-right.

 

There is effectively 0% mainstream representation or discussion of actual leftist praxis in the United States. The handful of mildly-center/center-left politicians are virulently attacked, even by (center-right) Democrats. The result is that people, often averse to appearing "too radical," assume the truth must be somewhere between center-right and far-right, the only positions credibly represented and discussed.

 

This is what passes for "reasonable" politics.

 

Meanwhile, we have literal concentration camps in the U.S. set to a backdrop of catastrophic environmental destruction while tens of millions of people live and die in extreme poverty.

 

Universal healthcare is "unaffordable" while we have ludicrous billionaires who can't imagine anything else to do with their money than play with rockets and flame throwers. We literally invent money for trillion dollar wars. The right-wing is fiscally conservative only when it comes to the poor.

 

✊

 

Sean

 

PS — joeblast, hey man. It's been ages. 👋 I had fun hanging out with you as well. No offense but please don't start spamming this topic with toilet paper rolls of your elaborate, personal conspiracy theories. 😆 I, like anyone else here who's spent more than five minutes in Off Grid, am quite aware that you deeply believe you've cracked the case on a vast global conspiracy. if I'm interested in reading anymore about that subject I'll go to one of the many topics containing several hundreds of your posts cataloging it at length. 🙏

 

[sean]

46 minutes ago, Earl Grey said:

Looking at Saga of the Swamp Thing, it's hard to deny he has some influences that include the Tao.

 

Alan Moore's Swamp Thing is my favorite "superhero" hands down.

 

Quote

Sadly a lot of people missed the point about all of his deconstructionist work, especially Watchmen. Satirizing the grim and gritty was interpreted as celebrating it--totally not the point he was making.

 

It's both hilarious and sad and a sign of our times that the right-wing sociopath Rorsach was portrayed as the antihero of the Watchmen film.

 

Sean

 

 

[joeblast]

hehe, well, I wouldnt be so presumptuous to say that *I* did a whole hell of a lot, except make some (more accurate) observations (than others here.)  and of course no offense taken, it tends to take some doing to actually offend me.

 

I hope "both" "sides" can have reasonable discussion once the spigot labeled "poison" is closed off from the well of public knowledge.  But I fear that so long as the transnational criminal organizations are free to use their ill gotten gains to propagandize the public, its going to by and large continue until the ill gotten gains disappear, or their credibility disappears.  Credibility leading that race by a thousand miles, it would appear.

 

All wars are bankster wars, and it helps the banksters protect the primary fraud by having the plebes squabble over things other than the Primary Fraud or things which will lead to discussion about the Primary Fraud.  This is the only reason we have Billionaires ignoring laws and setting up their own extra-sovereign entities that reside outside of the jurisdictions that they aim to absolutely 100% control.

 

L<>R both exist under banksterism - the big thing the world needs to do is get rid of the central banking institutions - because that's kind of a prerequisite for any semblance of a peaceful and honest society here on planet earth.

 

If things like this are skipped over in analysis, then the conclusions can never be considered to be robust Banksterism has robbed and perverted billiions of humans over the course of the past few hundred years - and just like there's never been actual real leftism, there hasnt been real capitalism either - only banksterism's tentacles perverting these terms that we think mean what they say on their face.

 

/\

Edited July 25, 2019 by joeblast

[dawei]

40 minutes ago, sean said:

I've found that people who claim they're "neither right nor left," especially U.S. citizens, are usually center-right at best. (And often worse, e.g., right-wing libertarians or crypto-antisemitic conspiracy-theorists.)

 

The political terms "left" and "right" have ideological meaning. Likewise "centrism" is not defined via an attempt to locate a compromised middle ground somewhere between right-wing Republican monsters and diet-right-wing corporatist Democrats.

 

The U.S. political spectrum is ideologically center-right to far-right.

 

Not sure where this comes from.  As one who works with data, I'd be open to reading something along this line of argument.   As the population (based on last presidential vote) is more left than right, I'm not sure how one comes to a spectrum as described.

 

40 minutes ago, sean said:

There is effectively 0% mainstream representation or discussion of actual leftist praxis in the United States. The handful of mildly-center/center-left politicians are virulently attacked, even by (center-right) Democrats. The result is that people, often averse to appearing "too radical," assume the truth must be somewhere between center-right and far-right, the only positions credibly represented and discussed.

 

This is what passes for "reasonable" politics.

 

I tend to hear that 98% of all media is leftist, so it seems a hard argument to say 0% representation.   Maybe you mean they just don't really talk the substance of what Leftist should be talking about.  

 

40 minutes ago, sean said:

Meanwhile, we have literal concentration camps in the U.S. set to a backdrop of catastrophic environmental destruction while tens of millions of people live and die in extreme poverty.

 

I don't think this is anything new as this was the situation in previous administrations as well.   Maybe you just mean that these are issues not getting attention they should be?  I think 'concentration camps' is a bit extreme as detention centers were built under previous administrations due to overcrowding going on... this administration asked for a year to help deal with the problem.  I think congressional help would be welcomed.  

 

The environment has been somewhat set aside but I don't expect every administration to pursue the same thing.   That is going to be a function of different parties in power.    Justice Ginsburg recently said that packing the court with 'left-leaning' justices would be a mistake as you need the mix and balance.  I would agree and see that idea will also play out in various economic, environmental, regulatory, and other life areas.   If folks don't like the mix of what gets attention, there is always going to be another time to vote.

 

Poverty is an awful sore spot but States could choose to do some things as well.    

 

40 minutes ago, sean said:

Universal healthcare is "unaffordable" while we have ludicrous billionaires who can't imagine anything else to do with their money than play with rockets and flame throwers. We literally invent money for trillion dollar wars. The right-wing is fiscally conservative only when it comes to the poor.

 

I can't recall someone explaining how to pay for it (or free education) in a way that the voting people would sufficiently agree.   And while billionaires do donate lots of money, I would agree that there could likely be better uses towards the poor.   

 

I likely have limited support for what a welfare state might include because I see the problem as systemic to our way of life/culture.   For example, I believe our production costs are always looking for the cheapest manufacturer and as a result we have too much produced from asian countries simply due to their suppressed wage rates.   We seemingly don't want to produce too much in the US which would help jobs but raise costs.   But by then not doing production in the US, we keep costs down and maybe that contributes towards thinking wages can stay down.   I would support more production in the US in exchange for higher costs and wages.   I read the $15 minimum wage would include those who work for tips.  Now that is going to change how we spend money on a small scale. 

 

Amazon wanted to build a facility in NY but AOC helped to push them out.  They will end up somewhere helping a local community with jobs but who is to blame for this part of NY which could use the jobs now not getting it?   Its a hard argument that we need to help the poorer areas and then refuse jobs that would help them.   This is where politics is not helping when businesses wanted to.