Are there any other leftists here? 👀

[ralis]

edit

Edited July 25, 2019 by ralis

[ralis]

32 minutes ago, dawei said:

 

Not sure where this comes from.  As one who works with data, I'd be open to reading something along this line of argument.   As the population (based on last presidential vote) is more left than right, I'm not sure how one comes to a spectrum as described.

 

 

I tend to hear that 98% of all media is leftist, so it seems a hard argument to say 0% representation.   Maybe you mean they just don't really talk the substance of what Leftist should be talking about.  

 

 

I don't think this is anything new as this was the situation in previous administrations as well.   Maybe you just mean that these are issues not getting attention they should be?  I think 'concentration camps' is a bit extreme as detention centers were built under previous administrations due to overcrowding going on... this administration asked for a year to help deal with the problem.  I think congressional help would be welcomed.  

 

The environment has been somewhat set aside but I don't expect every administration to pursue the same thing.   That is going to be a function of different parties in power.    Justice Ginsburg recently said that packing the court with 'left-leaning' justices would be a mistake as you need the mix and balance.  I would agree and see that idea will also play out in various economic, environmental, regulatory, and other life areas.   If folks don't like the mix of what gets attention, there is always going to be another time to vote.

 

Poverty is an awful sore spot but States could choose to do some things as well.    

 

 

I can't recall someone explaining how to pay for it (or free education) in a way that the voting people would sufficiently agree.   And while billionaires do donate lots of money, I would agree that there could likely be better uses towards the poor.   

 

I likely have limited support for what a welfare state might include because I see the problem as systemic to our way of life/culture.   For example, I believe our production costs are always looking for the cheapest manufacturer and as a result we have too much produced from asian countries simply due to their suppressed wage rates.   We seemingly don't want to produce too much in the US which would help jobs but raise costs.   But by then not doing production in the US, we keep costs down and maybe that contributes towards thinking wages can stay down.   I would support more production in the US in exchange for higher costs and wages.   I read the $15 minimum wage would include those who work for tips.  Now that is going to change how we spend money on a small scale. 

 

Amazon wanted to build a facility in NY but AOC helped to push them out.  They will end up somewhere helping a local community with jobs but who is to blame for this part of NY which could use the jobs now not getting it?   Its a hard argument that we need to help the poorer areas and then refuse jobs that would help them.   This is where politics is not helping when businesses wanted to. 

 

 

Concentration camp by definition is to crowd a large number of persons in a small space as seen in the videos of immigrants seeking asylum that were literally stuffed behind a chain link fence with no elbow room. Further, some confuse concentration camps with death camps in which there is a vast difference. The former is what is happening on the border.

 

Amazon pays low wages with harsh working conditions which are basically sweat shops. Unreasonable quotas and barely if at all bathroom breaks.

Edited July 25, 2019 by ralis

[dawei]

4 minutes ago, ralis said:

Concentration camp by definition is to crowd a large number of persons in a small space as seen in the videos of immigrants seeking asylum that were literally stuffed behind a chain link fence with no elbow room. Further, some confuse concentration camps with death camps in which there is a vast difference. The former is what is happening on the border.

 

I'm not sure I would use that definition but I'll let it stand for our conversation.   If we already have centers for [let's just pick a number] 10,000 immigrants and we get 30,000...  what should happen?   I would think they would go to congress and let them know of the problem and their need for help.   The media called it a 'manufactured crisis' for months...  Now they want to call it torturous conditions.  So the government was told more than 8 months ago of the problem and choose to do nothing.    I would think that likely something temporary could be done but I don't have all the facts on locations, centers, etc.   Thus, I don't think all the blame goes to congress but most does.

 

You make a good distinction about the death camps. thanks.  

 

4 minutes ago, ralis said:

Amazon pays low wages with harsh working conditions which are basically sweat shops. Unreasonable quotas and barely if at all bathroom breaks.

 

I know someone who works at Amazon and they make 3 figures out of college... but they are a big company and require lots of levels of work so I am sure some make just $10/hour.  They are going to $15 minimum (if not already).   

 

I've not heard of their sweat shop conditions, quotas or bathroom breaks.  But I would not be surprised if some of it is true.  Seems to point back to my idea that our desire to reduce costs makes the workers pay for it in the end.  Tech companies are not known for being great places to work depending on the job.   I'm glad they are building in the US but such conditions should not be acceptable.   

[ralis]

2 minutes ago, dawei said:

 

I'm not sure I would use that definition but I'll let it stand for our conversation.   If we already have centers for [let's just pick a number] 10,000 immigrants and we get 30,000...  what should happen?   I would think they would go to congress and let them know of the problem and their need for help.   The media called it a 'manufactured crisis' for months...  Now they want to call it torturous conditions.  So the government was told more than 8 months ago of the problem and choose to do nothing.    I would think that likely something temporary could be done but I don't have all the facts on locations, centers, etc.   Thus, I don't think all the blame goes to congress but most does.

 

You make a good distinction about the death camps. thanks.  

 

 

I know someone who works at Amazon and they make 3 figures out of college... but they are a big company and require lots of levels of work so I am sure some make just $10/hour.  They are going to $15 minimum (if not already).   

 

I've not heard of their sweat shop conditions, quotas or bathroom breaks.  But I would not be surprised if some of it is true.  Seems to point back to my idea that our desire to reduce costs makes the workers pay for it in the end.  Tech companies are not known for being great places to work depending on the job.   I'm glad they are building in the US but such conditions should not be acceptable.   

 

I was referring to the laborers not white collar office personnel. Should have been more precise. The working conditions are well documented.

[dawei]

15 minutes ago, ralis said:

 

I was referring to the laborers not white collar office personnel. Should have been more precise. The working conditions are well documented.

 

Ok, that makes sense.  Sorry to hear this.  I do get irked knowing the CEOs are making money hand over foot while such conditions are known.  

[sean]

2 hours ago, dawei said:

As the population (based on last presidential vote) is more left than right, I'm not sure how one comes to a spectrum as described.

 

I tend to hear that 98% of all media is leftist, so it seems a hard argument to say 0% representation.

 

The political terms "left" and "right" have an actual meaning. Democrats are nowhere near left. Sources pressing narratives like "98% of media is leftist" are very right-wing.

 

Sean

 

[joeblast]

42 minutes ago, dawei said:

 

Ok, that makes sense.  Sorry to hear this.  I do get irked knowing the CEOs are making money hand over foot while such conditions are known.  

Bezos, outflow of banksterism

Brin, outflow of banksterism

Gates, outflow of banksterism

Ellison, outflow of banksterism

Zuckerberg, outflow of banksterism

Schmidt....outflow of banksterism

Spoiler

 

I agree with Sean and ralis that there isnt a "real" left here in America.  We just differ in that I dont think the vast majority of those ideas are at all compatible with the Constitution and cannot be Constitutionally implemented at the federal level.  (By that 'not real' measure, though, there isnt "a real right" either!  I tend to think extremist rightwing views are as batshit as extremist left wing views.) 

 

I think such radical ideas are only borne of the bankster-fascist desire to subvert all nations on the planet.  There's a real irony, is that I'm pretty anti fascist.  Anti actual real Fascists, not merely those who the global fascists have pointed at and called fascists on their media outlets.  I kinda view myself similarly to z, where my preference is the closest damned thing to a well functioning Anarchy with absolutely minimalist government - there to do as they are prescribed, not to grow and grow along with "the amount of money 'we' all owe" with bought off pols subverting their constituents.  All totalitarian ideals seek to drain the resources of those they control, and its abhorrent.  If anything, humanity has shown itself that it isnt honest or lol 'evolved' enough to handle actual leftist ideas for real.  You wind up with a collection of pigs that are more equal than the other animals every time.  Decentralize it and the pigs cant do that.  The more decentralized the better, the less chance for abuse.  Power is abused, over and over, and over again.  The abuse of power is why I've posted so much on the Trump thread.

 

So in trying to reconcile this to Modern Society, a clear headed look is inexorably drawn towards pointing out the corrupting influence of Totalitarianism...

 

Because when we strip things back, it is really about making a better world - we all want that.  We support that which we believe will result in a better, more equitable place here.  Totalitarian forces have distorted the dataset by which we all decide which way is the best way to make this place a better, more equitable place.

 

I only post because its interesting to point out the dichotomies that produce the perceived separation in stances

[doc benway]

14 hours ago, sean said:

.I'm curious if there are any actual leftists on this forum?

 

Yes

 

For the same reasons you point out, I rarely engage with anything political. I feel the discomfort when sharing and exposing myself that you describe. I frankly feel a bit uncomfortable on the DaoBums anymore.

 

Ironic that a sectarian, egalitarian, Daoist meeting room developed and hosted by a leftist activist has become a “stronghold” for right wing propaganda and invective. I guess political ideology is a bit like a virus, or a mold - it grows and spreads where conditions allow.

 

It’s a little funny and a little disheartening.

I think it’s a nice microcosmic illustration of the old adage about complacency. 

 

Very nice to hear from your Sean.

Big, warm congrats on your life developments!

 

_/\_

 

[liminal_luke]

Hi Sean,

 

Great to see you posting again here!  I´m not sure I´d qualify as the kind of lefty you are inquiring about, but I am somebody whose disheartened with the pronounced right wing slant of the political threads here.  It´s weird.  Don´t socialists read Chuang Tzu and practice Tai Chi?  I think they do, though you wouldn´t know it reading the Trump Talk thread.  My take is that appearances are deceiving.  Many of the Bums I respect most are left-leaning cultivators who simply prefer to post about spirituality and eschew political conversation here altogether.   In my experience,  the political threads are mostly toxic -- and addictive (like so many other toxic things).  Luckily, there´s a lot of other more nourishing conversation to be had when I tear myself away from the political fighting.

 

Thanks so much for the forum.  It´s been a blessing in my life.

 

LL

[doc benway]

4 hours ago, sean said:

 

Alan Moore's Swamp Thing is my favorite "superhero" hands down.

 

 

It's both hilarious and sad and a sign of our times that the right-wing sociopath Rorsach was portrayed as the antihero of the Watchmen film.

 

Sean

 

 

 

Alan Moore is the shit.

Voice of the Fire will forever be with me..

❤️

[doc benway]

2 hours ago, ralis said:

 

I was referring to the laborers not white collar office personnel. Should have been more precise. The working conditions are well documented.

 

And when injured they are quickly cut to the curb, I take care of alit of them... retail machine fodder. It’s sad and ugly.

[laughingblade]

6 hours ago, joeblast said:

It winds up being less compassionate to everyone else when the able bodied are allowed to continue sucking the teat

 

At the earliest opportunity is funny, because it was years of looking at things before I understood what I was looking at.

It's true you're one of those whose insights i find helpful JB but whose politics I find lacking in humanity. Thanks for joining in.

 

I'm ok with a handful of people taking the piss out of welfare, for the vast benefit those who really need it gain. For a decent education and better opportunity I'd wager even most of those would sooner or later choose to wean themselves.

 

Your plastic island comment is truly of Daily Mail tabloid standard.

 

Serious Q: do you think the rightward tilt comes about as a result of particular practices? I recall all the tough-guy karate wannabe samurai warrior types when I was a kid were militaristic.

[Pilgrim]

7 hours ago, windwalker said:

 

You sound like a left-wing dipshit.  

 

 posting viewpoints on a public board warning others to limit theirs. 

Hmm let me get this straight Sean is the site owner is he not?  So his site his rules does not seem to bright to fight with the site owner.

[Nungali]

8 hours ago, windwalker said:

 

You sound like a left-wing dipshit.  

 

 posting viewpoints on a public board warning others to limit theirs. 

 

Hey , you come to my house .... expect the same .

[Lost in Translation]

4 minutes ago, Nungali said:

Hey , you come to my house .... expect the same .

 

I respect that.

 

However, if I invite someone to my house with the purpose of having a conversation, then I have necessarily given up a certain control. I can rightfully expect that person to speak politely, and I can rightfully expect that person to speak truthfully - to the limits of their ability, but can I rightfully expect to control the specific words that person says? Once that line is crossed we are no longer having a conversation.

[Nungali]

16 hours ago, sean said:

NOTE: This is not going to be a debate topic. I stopped debating right-wing dipshits many years ago for literally the same reason I don't argue with small children. Don't post right-wing bullshit in this topic. I'm in a mood and you've been warned.

 

I'm curious if there are any actual leftists on this forum?

 

To be clear, I don't mean neoliberal or "progressive" Democrats. I mean bonafide anti-fascists, left-anarchists, left-libertarians, Marxists, socialists or communists.

 

I haven't been active on here in years. (Short story: I fell in love, crisscrossed the country twice, leveled-up my engineering career, got married, bought a house in a new town, adopted an enormous dog.)

 

It's been incredibly disheartening to see that many of the loudest, most active voices here are right-wing reactionaries and conspiracy theory bros. Frankly, it makes the entire forum feel juvenile and toxic to me.

 

I can barely imagine wanting to share anything in this environment, let alone intimate, personal details of my spiritual practice.

 

Is this just what happens to online communities post-Trump now? The vulnerable aliveness slinks away slowly from the boorish spectacle, slipping quietly out the back door?

 

Trying times y'all. I remember often hearing this trope when I was young that I would eventually "grow out of" being a lefty. At 43 now it appears the prophecies were mistaken. I've only grown from Chomsky to Kropotkin to Marx. (With a cringe laissez-faire libertarian phase in there somewhere.)

 

Hi, my name is Sean. I'm a leftist. 👋

 

I read a ton but also (hopefully) avoid retreating into purely theoretical astronautics. "If it's not accessible to the poor, then it's neither revolutionary nor is it radical." My perspective continually evolves, but "anarcho-communist" is a shoe that fits well enough.

 

I'm active in community politics and not ideologically opposed to involvement in electoral politics. I vote for the least garbage candidates both nationally and locally. I don't shame people who conscientiously abstain from voting. I think pressuring the generally shitty, center-right led Democratic party leftward is worthwhile even if only as an exercise in shifting the Overton window and organizing solidarity. On a national scale, I believe universal healthcare is a medium-term fight worth focusing on given its populist support and massive capacity to reduce human suffering and death.

 

So, that's a bit about my politics. Any other leftist comrades hiding out here? I'd love to hear from you. Also, feel free to PM me if you're not yet ready to come out as a commie infidel. 😆

 

Sean

 

 

 

I suppose I am  a lefty  .... is an Aussie lefty the same as an American one ?

 

I remember our attempts to be left ... left alone that is .   Good God, I even got free University as a youth !  Even I was surprised, I  asked why it was so at the enrolment office  , and how i dodnt even have to do a grad course, just select whatever units appealed to me, didnt have to do exams if I didnt want either  .. why so ?

 

The  woman at the office looks at me and  " Well, the better educated people are in a society, the better that society will be ."

 

yes, back then the government thought like that !

 

Here is our old 'hero'

 

 

Gough giving back the land to indigenous   ( after passing land rights legislation )

 

But then .... he went too far ... that 'Pine Gap  business'   ( US world surveillance centre in Australia )   .

 

What else might make me a lefty ?   Well, I been living in a commune for over 30 years    ( and I can say that no  individual  land ownership has ever been an issue with me , cant tell the difference, except the big  jobs and responsibilities are shared and I have never had a mortgage  but still get to live as if I owned it , on 300 pristine acres of sub tropical rainforest, riverfront .

 

yeah, the government tried to take it back and I fought the Attorney General  (prosecutor) in the Supreme court for over 2 years on it ( and going to Supreme Court appeal  )   ..... kicked their efen arses !  Ha   Har ! 

 

What else ....   I done a bit of eco protests .... we took 'magic to the forest' , it was fairly successful , one day the loggers turned up with heavy machinery  to remove the barricades we had built overnight   ... I painted  Necronomicon  and spirit sigils all over it .  I wasnt there in the morning but someone else told me the bulldozer driver freaked out  " Thats it, I have had my equipment sabotaged , piss bombs dropped on me,  the road blocked everyday and now THIS , (pointed at  sigils)  I'm not putting up with THAT shit ! "  and went home !

 

        YES!

 

I worked volunteer Amnesty International and worked in refugee relocation .   Back then you could drive in and out of 'Villawood Immigration Centre ' by showing an Aussie drivers license, take people out for the day, to lunch, check out jobs and real estate, show them the ropes  etc .

 

Now its  'Villawood detention centre '   behind razor wire ... people on the roof in there with signs  "'Please help us '   we dont know what goes on in there , so sometimes the public congregates outside  ...but dont get too close to the fence , even from the outside

 

" Step away from the fence SIR ! "

 

They even got kids in there    

 

 

 

I saw the old mayor of Adelaide  being interviewed - he is Asian .

 

" Oh, I came to Australia many years ago ... as an 'illegal'  refugee myself  . It was very different back then , my first encounter with Australia was the coastline coming  into view after being lost at sea for some time, we where not sure where we where . Then we saw the coast, and this fishing boat came racing towards us with 3 guys in it .  They pulled  alongside and checked us out . It was pretty obvious by our condition what we  where . One of the fishermen opened a can of beer and handed it to me and shook my hand and said 'Welcome to Australia' . eventually I became the mayor of Adelaide . "

 

Done some political protesting too  at  parliament house  (errmm that got a little out of hand , a mate  chucked a live running chainsaw over the fence  .... over the heads of police on the other side  ...... Oh O!    They came out after us like a swarm of bullants .

 

And other stuff .

 

Yeah .....  I think tht Trump thread should be closed down .  More than one good person has left here because of that . I have nothing to do with it !

 

Except maybe occasionally  post a pic of 'dogs that look like Trump'.

 

[Nungali]

8 hours ago, Dynasty said:

 

That's the only way left wing dipshits can win. Through censoring, bullying and violence.

 

"How dare you have a different opinion than me. I'm in a mood and you say something I don't like I'm going to clock you over the head with a bicycle lock you fascist!"

 

The tides are turning. And the left wing dipshits will be forced back underground where they belong.

 

 

 

Bring it one then

 

I aint going now where !

[dawei]

3 hours ago, sean said:

The political terms "left" and "right" have an actual meaning. Democrats are nowhere near left. Sources pressing narratives like "98% of media is leftist" are very right-wing.

 

2 hours ago, joeblast said:

I agree with Sean and ralis that there isnt a "real" left here in America.  We just differ in that I dont think the vast majority of those ideas are at all compatible with the Constitution and cannot be Constitutionally implemented at the federal level.  (By that 'not real' measure, though, there isnt "a real right" either!  I tend to think extremist rightwing views are as batshit as extremist left wing views.) 

 

I would therefore say I have no idea what "left" and "right" means.  

[Nungali]

7 hours ago, sean said:

 

Hey Rich! ✊

 

 

I'm fascinated by the psychology behind what lures people into conspiracy theories. I think they're an incredibly seductive rut for certain temperaments. It also doesn't seem traditional spiritual practice does much to inoculate against, in fact maybe it leaves one more susceptible? ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

 

Thanks for sharing.

 

Sean

 

 

Mmm hmmm    < nods>

 

We had one here ... what a dooozy . But could, apparently, hold their end up in matters spiritual . But the conspiracy stuff and woo woo she was into !   My God !

 

The 'Handbags of the Gods' fiasco  !             I pointed out some silly stuff about her theory  (in my own unique 'way  '       and then, I of course, was hit with a tirade about how stupid I was not thinking any conspiracies  at all  existed, and then posted heaps of stuff about well known actual  conspiracies   (as if I had been saying THEY where not true  )  and rant rant ... and then , of course

 

... as they do

 

... started saying I must be one of them ... an Illuminati shill  ,   yes apparently the illuminati pays people to post on forums like this to subvert the dominant paradigm and ....

 

< sorry, broke off laughing  >

 

Well, its not the first time I have been accused of attempted world domination  - our magical group was accused of being' Illuminati' because it was a branch of an international order .   My response was  " Well, I just checked our operational bank account  and we have $178  in it .  I think we might need a bit more than that to attempt world domination  "    

 

Of course, there is the other side of real conspiracies .  I saw a politician once say " What , you think we meet in   rooms behind closed doors and plot with each other  < makes 'spooky'  hand gestures > ?"

 

Dude !  Thats is exactly what you do !

 

[Lost in Translation]

I am for anything that maximizes freedom of choice. Sometimes that means supporting left of center policies, such as social welfare  programs (unemployment insurance, social security, for example), but more often than not that means right of center policies (religious liberty, freedom of speech, right to keep and bear arms, for example). I think that individual leftists often come from a place of well meaning, but well meaning is not enough to ensure maximum freedom. That requires consciously choosing freedom and making it a priority, which is something that I do not see in the left.

 

Out of respect for the OP, I shall refrain from further comments in this thread. I am sure that anyone who cares about my opinion will have no problems finding it elsewhere on this site.

 

[Nungali]

54 minutes ago, Lost in Translation said:

 

I respect that.

 

However, if I invite someone to my house with the purpose of having a conversation, then I have necessarily given up a certain control. I can rightfully expect that person to speak politely, and I can rightfully expect that person to speak truthfully - to the limits of their ability, but can I rightfully expect to control the specific words that person says? Once that line is crossed we are no longer having a conversation.

 

 

No , YOU probably cant . 

 

But in my house ,  enough is enough  .      I have instilled a ban on people talking talking 'community politics' in my space .

 

Its been going on far too long, it is disruptive and effects the '  Heiwa-tekina-chowa '   of my space .   They keep trying to  ;  three times recently

 

THREE TIMES   I have been asked . cajoled, pleaded with to come to a community meeting ( by a nice young woman ) ,  I keep saying no, but she is trying to manipulate me  .   " What for  ! You keep doing that,  you want my advise and  consultation and want me to chair as you think I am the fairest, yet no one ever listens anyway, so why bother . "  I said that the first time  she asked .

 

After her 4th asking I said  " What for, do you think I am a sadist! If I want that I  will pay a whore to flog with me with a whip ."

 

She didnt ask a 5th time . 

 

The other side of the coin is .... you own a business , you can run it how ever you want . If people dont like it, no is forcing them to be here . .

[Aetherous]

2 hours ago, Pilgrim said:

Hmm let me get this straight Sean is the site owner is he not?  So his site his rules does not seem to bright to fight with the site owner.

 

If the forum moves toward stopping those who tend toward the right wing from expressing their views, I'll follow suit and stay silent, since my primary purpose here is spiritual discussion. Obviously, the forum owner can decide anything.

It's been nice in the past couple of years (in my perspective) to see that numerous other long term spiritual seekers and practitioners share similar views on the world. In that time, the forum has been a place for expression of diversity of thought, within the bounds of the forum rules. A number of those who sway to the left who are complaining about how it's been in this thread, have been totally free to express their opinions...which makes me think it's been a great place.

While there are other spiritual practitioners who tend toward the left, such as Steve for instance...as for myself, my current views which are center-right are definitely a result of my particular spiritual development (even if my development is mediocre). Perhaps different spiritual paths cultivate different ways of seeing the world.

 

Edited July 26, 2019 by Aetherous

[Nungali]

6 minutes ago, Aetherous said:

 

If the forum moves toward stopping those who tend toward the right wing from expressing their views, I'll follow suit and stay silent, since my primary purpose here is spiritual discussion. Obviously, the forum owner can decide anything.

It's been nice in the past couple of years (in my perspective) to see that numerous other long term spiritual seekers and practitioners share similar views on the world. In that time, the forum has been a place for expression of diversity of thought, within the bounds of the forum rules. A number of those who sway to the left who are complaining about how it's been in this thread, have been totally free to express their opinions...which makes me think it's been a great place.

While there are other spiritual practitioners who tend toward the left, such as Steve for instance...as for myself, my current views which are center-right are definitely a result of my particular spiritual development (even if my development is mediocre). Perhaps different spiritual paths cultivate different ways of seeing the world.

 

 

 

A result of your practice .  Interesting .

 

My 'spiritual practice'   ( I suppose the 'main one ' )   is intentionally ,deliberately,  revolutionary, anarchistic and libertarian.

 

Hey ye   !     (   )

 

"  LET IT BE KNOWN that there exists, unknown to the great crowd, a very ancient Order of sages, whose object is the amelioration and spiritual evolution of mankind by means of conquering error and aiding men and women in their efforts of attaining the power of recognising the truth.  This Order has existed already in the most remote times and it has manifested its activity secretly and openly in the world under different names and in various forms: it has caused social and political revolutions and proved to be the rock of salvation in times of danger and misfortune.  It has always upheld the banner of freedom against tyranny in whatever shape this appeared, whether as clerical or political or social despotism or oppression of any kind.

 

To this "secret order" every wise and spiritually enlightened person belongs by right of his or her nature: because they all, even if they are personally unknown to each other, are one in their purpose and object and they all work under the guidance of the one light of truth.  Into this Sacred Society no one can be admitted by another unless he has the power to enter it himself by virtue of his own interior illumination, neither can anyone after he has once entered be expelled unless he should expel himself by becoming unfaithful to his principles and forget again the truths which he has learned by his own experience. "

 

 

 

[Pilgrim]

19 hours ago, sean said:

It's been incredibly disheartening to see that many of the loudest, most active voices here are right-wing reactionaries and conspiracy theory bros. Frankly, it makes the entire forum feel juvenile and toxic to me.

 

I can barely imagine wanting to share anything in this environment, let alone intimate, personal details of my spiritual practice.

Hi Sean,

 

I will add to this.

 

All of the political threads on this site from all points of view have indeed made your site appear both juvenile and toxic.

 

Furthermore it is my recommendation the threads be removed entirely and no further political discussion be permitted of any kind.

 

People are going to have strong points of view about political matters and will voice them,  there is no stopping it as long as it is permitted.

 

I say remove the old political discussions,  they serve no purpose, no one really listens to each other from opposing sides anyway all it has been is a pressure release valve for people to vent,  some quite convincingly and intelligently.

 

This is the only way you will remove the stain.

 

The last I checked this was not a site dedicated to endless political debate. 

[Earl Grey]

8 hours ago, sean said:

 

Alan Moore's Swamp Thing is my favorite "superhero" hands down.

 

 

It's both hilarious and sad and a sign of our times that the right-wing sociopath Rorsach was portrayed as the antihero of the Watchmen film.

 

Sean

 

 

 

3 hours ago, steve said:

 

Alan Moore is the shit.

Voice of the Fire will forever be with me..

❤️

 

Interestingly, that has been addressed in the sequel, Doomsday Clock. The second Rorschach is black and this point is even raised by someone asking how he can conveniently forget those hyper right wing views and moral absolutism before he realizes how stupid it is to subscribe to that or have unnecessary hero worship.

 

Voice of the Fire is one of my favorite histories of magic too and I will always have fun reading about Hob’s Hog.

 

Alan Moore is a bit surprising in that he represents a vocal leftist voice but admittedly did not vote in Brexit, of which he was unhappy with the result.

 

What I enjoy about my anarchic views is community organization, which in turn ties into development work, particularly grassroots and social enterprise. Absent of privilege, devoid of the democratic process, the unrepresented and underrrepresented are not necessarily helpless if they organize well. I could tell dozens of stories that would make all the left-hating members here grit their teeth about out work in Cambodia, Sri Lanka, and Tanzania that I personally saw and even in Seattle (for people who say “if you can help people around the world why don’t you do shit for America?”) too.