Are there any other leftists here? 👀

[joeblast]

I was kinda chucklin, because if "today's Left" isnt really left, and let's face it, today's "Right" isnt really right either, it seems like mostly everyone is now crowded in the middle, and there's all kinds of problems (and scale unresolved by the L<>R paradigm) there too (which is why you're reading that most of us dont identify with L<>R much at all and consider ourselves more center than anything else.  on this preposterous L><R scale I see myself as center-right trying to call balls & strikes based off of the bill of rights.)

 

 

Big point, all the problems left right center root in money's corrupting influence buying what it needs in order to gain complicity - and NO ideology is immune to it.  If you dont have "banksters" in your "fkery equations" then they will not wind up being useful equations

 

 

I agree about the slavery bit Sean, I mean, we've reached a point on the chans where the shills are flat out posting the most disgusting things imaginable to try and stop people from going and seeing the information that's being disseminated there about the transnational criminal orgs.  When the message needs to be killed that badly by those the message incriminates...I feel bad for the homeless, but I feel way worse for all these trafficked kids.  (I still want to almost cry because of one of the pictures I accidentally saw the other day...I can handle some shit, but man...cmon...I could not ever in good conscience horrify anyone else to ever repeat what it was...so yes I do understand everyone's got their breaking point)

 

There's nothing wrong with asking for a baseline modicum of respect around here, but its a two way street - there's just some people that bristle at reading "Things 'The Authorities' Have Said Are False," they bristle hard, then there's some disrespect hurled in both directions, to the point where hey, ralis and I both absolutely carry some blame and nobody can remember the beginning of that fire. 

 

I guess in that regard, its within your purview as 0wner of the joint to ask for a little respect reset amongst all, I can dig that and see it as necessary also.

[Pilgrim]

1 hour ago, ralis said:

There's a better and much more magical way forward.

What would that be? 

 

Honestly I am all for something that will actually work and reading your thoughts is very different than what anyone else proclaiming a leftest viewpoint has written. Perhaps they were not true leftest after all?

 

Thanks.

[ilumairen]

 

Quote

Speech is not harmless. Speech has real, immediate, direct, material consequences on other human beings.

 

:takes note:

 

Quote

 

Implicitly allowing socially toxic rhetoric to continue platforming itself unchecked in a space, poisons that space, and disproportionately harms the least powerful.

 

The winds of change have arrived...

[Pilgrim]

14 minutes ago, steve said:

Ahhh, I feel like a cool, fresh breeze is blowing through the board and I can breath.

 

Thanks Sean

Not sure about a cool breeze but I think there is a new Sheriff in town and I am starting to like the way he talks  

[ralis]

10 minutes ago, Pilgrim said:

What would that be? 

 

Honestly I am all for something that will actually work and reading your thoughts is very different than what anyone else proclaiming a leftest viewpoint has written. Perhaps they were not true leftest after all?

 

Thanks.

 

I don’t know where you found that quote, but it isn’t mine. 

[Pilgrim]

3 minutes ago, ralis said:

 

I don’t know where you found that quote, but it isn’t mine. 

Sorry Ralis it was Seans I am trying to multitask and got it mixed up some how. 

[Pilgrim]

1 hour ago, sean said:

There's a better and much more magical way forward.

This was how I was trying to quote Sean.

 

Would love to hear more about what the way forward is as Sean is writing things I have never read before and it is sounding hopeful.

[Aetherous]

48 minutes ago, steve said:

Ahhh, I feel like a cool, fresh breeze is blowing through the board and I can breathe.

 

It's the polar opposite for me.

 

Steve, you should honestly ask yourself why you'd feel like you can suddenly breathe, when there's essentially talk of banning (or otherwise disallowing) those whose opinions you disagree with, and only allowing those of a certain opinion to express their thoughts. Falsely labeling the other side as "socially toxic", etc...or "racist" as ralis did, without a smidgen of proof of such.

These are not things that should cause a person to breathe more easily.

[ilumairen]

15 minutes ago, Aetherous said:

 

It's the polar opposite for me.

 

Steve, you should honestly ask yourself why you'd feel like you can suddenly breathe, when there's essentially talk of banning (or otherwise disallowing) those whose opinions you disagree with, and only allowing those of a certain opinion to express their thoughts. Falsely labeling the other side as "socially toxic", etc...or "racist" as ralis did, without a smidgen of proof of such.

These are not things that should cause a person to breathe more easily.

 

Hello my dear Aetherous, I seem to recall you making a statement regarding toxicity as well, only in your case it related to feminism.

 

We forget things sometimes.. 

 

Edit with apologies, the phrase was "entirely destructive" - which isn't exactly the same as toxic I suppose.

Edited July 26, 2019 by ilumairen

[thelerner]

On 7/26/2019 at 4:43 PM, steve said:

Ahhh, I feel like a cool, fresh breeze is blowing through the board and I can breathe.

 

It is, we have had toxic echo fests here for awhile, but I don't want to swap one echo chamber for another.

On 7/26/2019 at 4:29 PM, sean said:

Speech is not harmless. Speech has real, immediate, direct, material consequences on other human beings. Implicitly allowing socially toxic rhetoric to continue platforming itself unchecked in a space, poisons that space, and disproportionately harms the least powerful.

love you man and admire your passion for justice,  we have hard working mods and administrator here and while I welcome some changes, things should go through them.  They've been doing the heavy lifting for years.   If there are going to be any changes, they should be clearly spelled out after going through staff and member input. 

 

On the other hand this is your site.  You created this community and its been wonderful.  An electric oasis for years and we have you to thank.  Just.. take your time, get input.  Slow change works, pushing too hard creates resistance. 

 

 

Edited July 31, 2019 by thelerner

[Pilgrim]

10 minutes ago, Aetherous said:

 

It's the polar opposite for me.

 

Steve, you should honestly ask yourself why you'd feel like you can suddenly breathe, when there's essentially talk of banning (or otherwise disallowing) those whose opinions you disagree with, and only allowing those of a certain opinion to express their thoughts. Falsely labeling the other side as "socially toxic", etc...or "racist" as ralis did, without a smidgen of proof of such.

These are not things that should cause a person to breathe more easily.

I am certain he is just pleased that the owner of the site shares his ideology.

 

In all fairness the ones calling them self's leftest have not had a strong or clear voice on this forum and I am finding what Sean has to say interesting as the leftest view has never been presented the way he is doing it.

 

My Own Cousin in California calls herself leftest and she is so left she goes in circles  but honestly as much as I love her she does not present as well as Sean. 

 

I for one am genuinely interested in hearing more of what he says, anyone who sees through Obama and Clinton and so direclt and clearly describes not only them but the Regan era  the way he does clearly has some valuable insights. 

[ralis]

19 minutes ago, Aetherous said:

 

It's the polar opposite for me.

 

Steve, you should honestly ask yourself why you'd feel like you can suddenly breathe, when there's essentially talk of banning (or otherwise disallowing) those whose opinions you disagree with, and only allowing those of a certain opinion to express their thoughts. Falsely labeling the other side as "socially toxic", etc...or "racist" as ralis did, without a smidgen of proof of such.

These are not things that should cause a person to breathe more easily.

 

Actually there is plenty of proof regarding racist remarks on this site. One member used the “n” word within the last week and was allowed to revise without any mod reprimand after his post. 

[thelerner]

15 minutes ago, Aetherous said:

 

It's the polar opposite for me.

 

Steve, you should honestly ask yourself why you'd feel like you can suddenly breathe, when there's essentially talk of banning (or otherwise disallowing) those whose opinions you disagree with, and only allowing those of a certain opinion to express their thoughts. Falsely labeling the other side as "socially toxic", etc...or "racist" as ralis did, without a smidgen of proof of such.

These are not things that should cause a person to breathe more easily.

I'll be happy to take this one.  I've seen posts here talking about 'how much they want to kill the other side.  How hard it is to restrain themselves' (and I reported it).  That was repeated by another person a thread or two down.   I guess we could go through the Talk Trump thread and point out Toxic nasty hyper-partisan posts, from both sides, but lately its been an avalanche from the hyper right but both sides taken to the extreme are toxic.  Full of insults, innuendo and exaggerations.   

 

We're a philosophy site, if our biggest threads are going to be Political Rhetoric then we need to be honest and put it in our creed.  An esoteric philosophy and political site; Dirty politics, calls for murder, mass insults, conspiracy theories welcome. 

 

We'll never reign it all in, probably we shouldn't but its gotten in my opinion out of balance.  There were years when it was imbalanced by Left wingers.  I don't know what the solution** is, but I wish the nasty political stuff found a better more appropriate home instead of on our philosophy site. 

[Aetherous]

31 minutes ago, ralis said:

Actually there is plenty of proof regarding racist remarks on this site. One member used the “n” word within the last week and was allowed to revise without any mod reprimand after his post. 

 

That's not something I was aware of, but if that did happen, of course it was racist. I would think saying that word would be ban worthy at this point in our culture.
 

30 minutes ago, thelerner said:

I've seen posts here talking about 'how much they want to kill the other side.  How hard it is to restrain themselves' (and I reported it).  That was repeated by another person a thread or two down.

 

Another thing I wasn't aware of...I thought violent talk (especially about "killing") like that was against the forum rules already and was an automatic ban.

 

39 minutes ago, Pilgrim said:

I for one am genuinely interested in hearing more of what he says, anyone who sees through Obama and Clinton and so direclt and clearly describes not only them but the Regan era  the way he does clearly has some valuable insights. 

 

It is certainly interesting, for instance how he said the mainstream media isn't leftist. I don't even know what is leftist if that's the case.

 

45 minutes ago, ilumairen said:

Hello my dear Aetherous, I seem to recall you making a statement regarding toxicity as well, only in your case it related to feminism.

 

We forget things sometimes.. 

 

Edit with apologies, the phrase was "entirely destructive" - which isn't exactly the same as toxic I suppose.

 

The issue I take here is the gleefulness when censorship of one side is touted as being correct. What if the opposite happened, and a forum owner came here one day saying that leftist views are all socially toxic rhetoric, that those on the left are racist bigots, and we shouldn't even give those idiots the time of day who think that way (insinuating that they'll soon be gone, and the forum made "better" without them)? I very much believe all of the leftists here wouldn't be breathing so freely if that had happened. They'd probably think fascists had taken over...

Regarding calling things toxic, that's fine to do in debate. I only take issue with it being done in the context of the forum owner talking about not having certain opinions (which I interpret to mean literally everyone on the right, judging from how he's worded his posts in this thread).

I do think feminism (clearly, not the kind that's for equality, but the second or third wave kinds) is entirely destructive, and is toxic.

Also, I'm a bit confused by your post, since I thought we were on good terms and actually friends on this forum. I guess friends sometimes call each other out, but usually it's not quite like this.

 

...

Edited to add: I'm going to try my best to go silent now and stick to spiritual/healing etc topics. Sorry if I mess up and speak again here...I could work on my will power a bit more! I think Sean's made it clear enough how he wants it at the forum, which is fine with me (although a bit of a shock when "the winds of change" bring such sudden implementation). I'm honestly used to being in leftist dominated environments, and can manage just fine (although it certainly doesn't stop me from thinking freely). I just found it a bit strange for people to be relieved at the notion of getting rid of those who think a certain way...especially when it's said in nearly the same breath as this: 
 

Quote

"If you feel more open to others, especially those that once generated feelings of aversion, what a blessing! If you look for and find fault in your own positions and actions preferentially, rather than looking to reinforce your beliefs and cut down those of others, you are making progress. Congratulations and keep up the good work."

 

Edited July 26, 2019 by Aetherous

[C T]

10 minutes ago, Aetherous said:

 

 

 

The issue I take here is the gleefulness when censorship of one side is touted as being correct. What if the opposite happened, and a forum owner came here one day saying that leftist views are all socially toxic rhetoric, that those on the left are racist bigots, and we shouldn't even give those idiots the time of day who think that way (insinuating that they'll soon be gone, and the forum made "better" without them)? I very much believe all of the leftists here wouldn't be breathing so freely if that had happened. They'd probably think fascists had taken over...

 

 

Enlarge that enough, and it about sums up the full agenda of the current US administration, imo. 

[ralis]

35 minutes ago, Pilgrim said:

I am certain he is just pleased that the owner of the site shares his ideology.

 

In all fairness the ones calling them self's leftest have not had a strong or clear voice on this forum and I am finding what Sean has to say interesting as the leftest view has never been presented the way he is doing it.

 

My Own Cousin in California calls herself leftest and she is so left she goes in circles  but honestly as much as I love her she does not present as well as Sean. 

 

I for one am genuinely interested in hearing more of what he says, anyone who sees through Obama and Clinton and so direclt and clearly describes not only them but the Regan era  the way he does clearly has some valuable insights. 

 

‘Perhaps you read my earlier post regarding Reagan and neoliberals? The largest transfer of wealth from the middle to the 1% upwards of 7 trillion. It wasn’t an overnight transfer, but in small increments over time. The latest transfer in the name of tax cuts is around 1 trillion plus. The cuts to the 1% are permanent whereas the few dollars the middle received are temporary. 

 

 

[liminal_luke]

22 hours ago, Pilgrim said:

 

All of the political threads on this site from all points of view have indeed made your site appear both juvenile and toxic.

 

Furthermore it is my recommendation the threads be removed entirely and no further political discussion be permitted of any kind.

 

People are going to have strong points of view about political matters and will voice them,  there is no stopping it as long as it is permitted.

 

 

1 hour ago, sean said:

 

Speech is not harmless. Speech has real, immediate, direct, material consequences on other human beings. Implicitly allowing socially toxic rhetoric to continue platforming itself unchecked in a space, poisons that space, and disproportionately harms the least powerful.

 

 

Amen to both posts quoted above.  As Sean says: "Speech is not harmless."  I think the board has been harmed by the proliferation of political threads and suggest steps be taken to bring the board back to it´s spiritual roots.  Why not do away with political talk here altogether?  

 

Trump Talk is like Hagen Daz: if it´s in the fridge, even buried under the frozen broccoli in Off Grid, I´m gonna consume it.  I admire those Bums who have made a conscious decision not to use the forum to talk politics but that´s not me.  And I´d argue that even those who abstain from Trump Talk are harmed by it.  The nature of the board changes and not in a good way.  Let´s change it back.

 

LL

 

 

[Pilgrim]

7 minutes ago, ralis said:

 

‘Perhaps you read my earlier post regarding Reagan and neoliberals? The largest transfer of wealth from the middle to the 1% upwards of 7 trillion. It wasn’t an overnight transfer, but in small increments over time. The latest transfer in the name of tax cuts is around 1 trillion plus. The cuts to the 1% are permanent whereas the few dollars the middle received are temporary. 

 

 

Hmmm have to go back now and reread the posts somehow I am mixing you two up. Either way it is good stuff to read and comprehend.

[ralis]

11 minutes ago, liminal_luke said:

 

 

Amen to both posts quoted above.  As Sean says: "Speech is not harmless."  I think the board has been harmed by the proliferation of political threads and suggest steps be taken to bring the board back to it´s spiritual roots.  Why not do away with political talk here altogether?  

 

Trump Talk is like Hagen Daz: if it´s in the fridge, even buried under the frozen broccoli in Off Grid, I´m gonna consume it.  I admire those Bums who have made a conscious decision not to use the forum to talk politics but that´s not me.  And I´d argue that even those who abstain from Trump Talk are harmed by it.  The nature of the board changes and not in a good way.  Let´s change it back.

 

LL

 

 

 

TDB is not loading well. Neither on my phone, iPad or desktop. 

[Pilgrim]

33 minutes ago, ralis said:

 

‘Perhaps you read my earlier post regarding Reagan and neoliberals? The largest transfer of wealth from the middle to the 1% upwards of 7 trillion. It wasn’t an overnight transfer, but in small increments over time. The latest transfer in the name of tax cuts is around 1 trillion plus. The cuts to the 1% are permanent whereas the few dollars the middle received are temporary. 

 

 

Ok went back and reread and both you and Sean did a good job of explaining how things have come to be and filled in some things I have wondered about.

 

Great job both of you. 

 

I also agree with Sean’s view of capitalism but am not so sure socialism is the answer.

 

So what Sean is the way foreword? I would be glad to be rid of Trump but Biden is certainly not the answer that would just be a return to Bill and Obama and I for one have had enough of that.

 

So what is a better way forward? Do you have a view of how Socialism  can change things for the better? I thought socialism was just about as bad a system as one could hope for where everyone but the elites are reduced to a common level of poverty. 

 

Kind of the way way things are going now.

 

Is this view wrong? if so if so please do educate me.

 

 

[ilumairen]

 

49 minutes ago, Aetherous said:

The issue I take here is the gleefulness when censorship of one side is touted as being correct. What if the opposite happened, and a forum owner came here one day saying that leftist views are all socially toxic rhetoric, that those on the left are racist bigots, and we shouldn't even give those idiots the time of day who think that way (insinuating that they'll soon be gone, and the forum made "better" without them)? I very much believe all of the leftists here wouldn't be breathing so freely if that had happened. They'd probably think fascists had taken over...

Regarding calling things toxic, that's fine to do in debate. I only take issue with it being done in the context of the forum owner talking about not having certain opinions (which I interpret to mean literally everyone on the right, judging from how he's worded his posts in this thread).

I do think feminism (clearly, not the kind that's for equality, but the second or third wave kinds) is entirely destructive, and is toxic.

Also, I'm a bit confused by your post, since I thought we were on good terms and actually friends on this forum. I guess friends sometimes call each other out, but usually it's not quite like this.

 

...

Edited to add: I'm going to try my best to go silent now and stick to spiritual/healing etc topics. Sorry if I mess up and speak again here...I could work on my will power a bit more! I think Sean's made it clear enough how he wants it at the forum, which is fine with me (although a bit of a shock when "the winds of change" bring such sudden implementation).

 

My bad.. this is how the people around me interact irl, and what I posted would be considered a "gentle reminder" and something to consider.

 

The winds of change are strong, sudden and unexpected.. 

 

I'm processing, and stepped in the middle of what appeared to be the start of an argument between two people I consider friends. 

 

I will, once again, withdraw and allow you guys to sort out what needs sorting.

 

Warm regards to you both. 

 

[Nungali]

On 26/07/2019 at 10:02 AM, Aetherous said:

 

If the forum moves toward stopping those who tend toward the right wing from expressing their views, I'll follow suit and stay silent, since my primary purpose here is spiritual discussion. Obviously, the forum owner can decide anything.

 

 

HEADS UP PEEPS !

 

It was  THIS THREAD   that was  said to 'keep left' .  not the whole forum.   And the thread is asking if there are lefties here , and is asking that right wing people dont subvert and hack a thread that is merely talking about people that are lefties.

 

So what !

 

I keep outa the Trump thread for similar reasons .

 

 

Settle down .

 

 

 

[Nungali]

20 hours ago, MooNiNite said:

What about historical Daoist figures? Do any of them align left?

I think Lao Tzu is pretty much out of the question, because many of his quotes are anti-government/taxes, but what about Confucius? Or any other major figures?

 

 

Lao left Confucius  right .

[Earl Grey]

4 hours ago, rideforever said:

Such censorship that is being proposed will lead to what ?  Nothing good.

Now's your chance ... anyone with a long-running grievance get in here and say what manner of censorship or deletion you would like.

People wish to stay silent out of respect.   That is not respect, it means you have no respect for the audience, or you fear.

Perhaps you fear the owner because he is in a bad mood and will delete you at the touch of a button.

Such respect you are given.

Shall the members crawl on their bellies then.

Let's see how people react after all the big talk around here, anyone still standing upright?

Others wish to define collectivism as the ultimate positive virtue.  Well that is certainly not the view of a large number of individualist sages who left town to be with just a few people.  

And there are yet others who saw no difference between strife and harmony, as long as it could be used.

Here, there are threads for many unpopular political opinions ... people engage as they wish, easily, and if they do not wish, then they do not.

 

 

It might surprise you, but Sean is only asking for people to focus on the topic at hand here, not censoring people.

 

If you’re concerned with fear for expressing one’s opinion, take a look at flowing hands and the climate change thread he started: what was clearly started for the purpose of sharing what we do knowing that it’s affecting us and getting worse instead turned into a debate on whether climate change is real or not. Not only did it steer far from its original focus to the dismay of the OP due to the conspiracy theory people from the right, but two mods even joined in on talking about how it wasn’t real, praised Trump, and the rest didn’t even bother stepping in to split the thread and keep it on topic.

 

Sean is just asking people to stay on topic and be respectful in this thread—which he should have to given that it’s expected across the forum and has been ignored with alarming regularity in multiple instances. The climate change thread was one of two threads that pushed out one of our members from the forum.

 

For everyone else worried about free speech, this is not a right, this is a privilege because it’s a focused discussion group, otherwise without that order, it becomes the loud and rude members talking over everyone else and changing the focus of the topic to what they want to talk about instead of what’s being focused on from the beginning.

 

Do people attend meetings with topic agenda to suddenly shift focus to football when the topic is about corruption and racism in FIFA as opposed to who loves which team because the reference to football makes some members decide to walk in and change the focus to which teams like Man U or Real Madrid are superior? No.

[Pilgrim]

I participate on other forums and quite honestly the stuff that goes on here would have gotten people banned long ago.

 

Even the whiff or a hint of a whiff of political talk earns an immediate warning.

 

This site in my opinion needs some stricter guidelines but hey what do I know I am only trying to learn Daoism and it seems the chaotic the disrespectful and generally uncivilized behavior is part of the TAO or DAO as well from this site,  so meh not too impressed.

 

I will say this much other sites not even dedicated to spirituality conduct them selves far better than the behavior exhibited here.

 

Food for thought?  I doubt it.