Are there any other leftists here? 👀

[Earl Grey]

4 minutes ago, Pilgrim said:

I participate on other forums and quite honestly the stuff that goes on here would have gotten people banned long ago.

 

Even the whiff or a hint of a whiff of political talk earns an immediate warning.

 

This site in my opinion needs some stricter guidelines but hey what do I know I am only trying to learn Daoism and it seems the chaotic the disrespectful and generally uncivilized behavior is part of the TAO or DAO as well from this site,  so meh not too impressed.

 

I will say this much other sites not even dedicated to spirituality conduct them selves far better than the behavior exhibited here.

 

Food for thought?  I doubt it.

 

It used to not be like this, and that was the appeal for me. 

[Stosh]

On 7/25/2019 at 1:58 AM, sean said:

NOTE: This is not going to be a debate topic. I stopped debating right-wing dipshits many years ago for literally the same reason I don't argue with small children. Don't post right-wing bullshit in this topic. I'm in a mood and you've been warned.

 

I'm curious if there are any actual leftists on this forum?

 

To be clear, I don't mean neoliberal or "progressive" Democrats. I mean bonafide anti-fascists, left-anarchists, left-libertarians, Marxists, socialists or communists.

 

I haven't been active on here in years. (Short story: I fell in love, crisscrossed the country twice, leveled-up my engineering career, got married, bought a house in a new town, adopted an enormous dog.)

 

It's been incredibly disheartening to see that many of the loudest, most active voices here are right-wing reactionaries and conspiracy theory bros. Frankly, it makes the entire forum feel juvenile and toxic to me.

 

I can barely imagine wanting to share anything in this environment, let alone intimate, personal details of my spiritual practice.

 

Is this just what happens to online communities post-Trump now? The vulnerable aliveness slinks away slowly from the boorish spectacle, slipping quietly out the back door?

 

Trying times y'all. I remember often hearing this trope when I was young that I would eventually "grow out of" being a lefty. At 43 now it appears the prophecies were mistaken. I've only grown from Chomsky to Kropotkin to Marx. (With a cringe laissez-faire libertarian phase in there somewhere.)

 

Hi, my name is Sean. I'm a leftist. 👋

 

I read a ton but also (hopefully) avoid retreating into purely theoretical astronautics. "If it's not accessible to the poor, then it's neither revolutionary nor is it radical." My perspective continually evolves, but "anarcho-communist" is a shoe that fits well enough.

 

I'm active in community politics and not ideologically opposed to involvement in electoral politics. I vote for the least garbage candidates both nationally and locally. I don't shame people who conscientiously abstain from voting. I think pressuring the generally shitty, center-right led Democratic party leftward is worthwhile even if only as an exercise in shifting the Overton window and organizing solidarity. On a national scale, I believe universal healthcare is a medium-term fight worth focusing on given its populist support and massive capacity to reduce human suffering and death.

 

So, that's a bit about my politics. Any other leftist comrades hiding out here? I'd love to hear from you. Also, feel free to PM me if you're not yet ready to come out as a commie infidel. 😆

 

Sean

 

 

I wasn't going to interfere with this thread, and my statement isn't political, it's about the welcomeness I should consider to exist here. 

Is it to now be Marx way or the highway? Because, frankly ,I am shocked at this intro. 

[Earl Grey]

11 hours ago, MooNiNite said:

 

Any examples? 

 

From https://enacademic.com/dic.nsf/enwiki/129563

 

Quote

 He was schooled in Confucianism in his early years, but he viewed Confucianism as being too fatalistic and emphasizing too 

much on elaborate celebrations and funerals which he felt were detrimental to the livelihood and productivity of common people.

 

Quote

 Both the Republican revolutionaries of 1911 and the Communists saw in him a surprisingly modern thinker who was stifled early in Chinese history.

 

Quote

Mohism was suppressed under the Qin and died out completely under the Han, which made Confucianism the official doctrine. However, many of its ideas were dissolved into the mainstream of Chinese thought and re-examined in modern times. Sun Yat-Sen used "universal love" as one of the foundations for his idea of Chinese democracy. More recently, Chinese scholars under Communism have tried to rehabilitate Mozi as a "philosopher of the people", highlighting his rational-empirical approach to the world as well as his "proletarian" background.

 

Quote

 Some modern day supporters for Mozi (as well as Communism) make the claim that Mohism and modernCommunism share a lot in terms of ideals for community life. Others would claim that Mohism shares more with the central ideas of Christianity, especially in terms of the idea of "universal love" (in Greek, "agape"), the "Golden Rule", and the relation of humanity to the supernatural realm.

 

[cheya]

It may serve to recall Nungali's recent post repeatedly in this thread:

(this time, for Stosh  )

 

1 hour ago, Nungali said:

HEADS UP PEEPS !

 

It was  THIS THREAD   that was  said to 'keep left' .  not the whole forum.   And the thread is asking if there are lefties here , and is asking that right wing people dont subvert and hack a thread that is merely talking about people that are lefties.

 

So what !

 

I keep outa the Trump thread for similar reasons .

 

 

Settle down .

 

 

[ralis]

8 minutes ago, cheya said:

It may serve to recall Nungali's recent post repeatedly in this thread:

(this time, for Stosh  )

 

 

 

Thanks for reiterating the point of this thread. To express leftist ideals without being bullied and attacked is refreshing!

[Pilgrim]

20 minutes ago, cheya said:

It may serve to recall Nungali's recent post repeatedly in this thread:

(this time, for Stosh  )

 

 

I am reminded of how much I respect the degree of clarity Stosh brings to topics and scholarly wisdom.

 

Perhaps his track record should be reflected upon?

Edited July 27, 2019 by Pilgrim

[Pilgrim]

1 minute ago, ralis said:

 

Thanks for reiterating the point of this thread. To express leftist ideals without being bullied and attacked is refreshing!

Yes it is being protected for once is nice isn’t it? 

 

Been a hard run for allot of folks. Glad you stuck it out, yours is a voice I really respect.

[Stosh]

21 minutes ago, cheya said:

It may serve to recall Nungali's recent post repeatedly in this thread:

(this time, for Stosh  )

 

 

Thanks, but I didn't ask you nungali or Ralis. 

It makes a difference what Sean has to say himself, in response to my question ,because the derision and threat goes beyond the boundaries of the thread.

Edited July 27, 2019 by Stosh

[ralis]

10 minutes ago, Stosh said:

Thanks, but I didn't ask you nungali or Ralis. 

It makes a difference what Sean has to say himself, in response to my question ,because the derision and threat goes beyond the boundaries of the thread.

 

If you want to participate in the topic of this thread that is fine. Do you have anything to add?

[Stosh]

5 minutes ago, ralis said:

 

If you want to participate in the topic of this thread that is fine. Do you have anything to add?

Is your name Sean ?

[liminal_luke]

35 minutes ago, Stosh said:

 it's about the welcomeness I should consider to exist here

 

Stosh does make a good point about "welcomeness."  Ideally, we´d all work together to make this a place where people are likely to feel welcome.  That doesn´t mean that Bums can´t have and voice political opinions, just that they don´t smear others who think and feel differently.  The political threads are rife with derisive comments and putdowns.  One member consistently refers to Democrats as the dims, suggesting (I think) that members of my political party are of low intelligence.  While not explicitly against the rules, this kind of language doesn´t make me feel welcome.  

 

I don´t always agree with Stosh, so it´s nice to see we have something in common: we both want to feel welcome here.

[Stosh]

1 minute ago, liminal_luke said:

 

Stosh does make a good point about "welcomeness."  Ideally, we´d all work together to make this a place where people are likely to feel welcome.  That doesn´t mean that Bums can´t have and voice political opinions, just that they don´t smear others who think and feel differently.  The political threads are rife with derisive comments and putdowns.  One member consistently refers to Democrats as the dims, suggesting (I think) that members of my political party are of low intelligence.  While not explicitly against the rules, this kind of language doesn´t make me feel welcome.  

 

I don´t always agree with Stosh, so it´s nice to see we have something in common: we both want to feel welcome here.

I thought you understood my warm opinion toward you despite disagreeing with some things like they are the plague.😁

[Earl Grey]

Jeez louise, how hard is it to stay on topic? Why not just split the discussion into a new thread on "welcomeness fear of censorship" because we're talking so much about the basic rules and limitations that we are barely focused on the left here. 

[Stosh]

1 minute ago, Earl Grey said:

Jeez louise, how hard is it to stay on topic? Why not just split the discussion into a new thread on "welcomeness fear of censorship" because we're talking so much about the basic rules and limitations that we are barely focused on the left here. 

He can pipe up when he chooses to. It's only becoming diverting because of your own input.

[Earl Grey]

23 minutes ago, Stosh said:

He can pipe up when he chooses to. It's only becoming diverting because of your own input.

 

Oh, get over yourself; several people have already made the same complaints as you about perceived oppression and censorship. Barely five pages in and it's already a broken record, sheesh. 

 

BACK TO TOPIC. 

Edited July 27, 2019 by Earl Grey

[Stosh]

2 minutes ago, Earl Grey said:

 

Oh, get over yourself; several people have already made the same complaints about perceived oppression and censorship. 

 

BACK TO TOPIC. 

I don't care what other complaints were made or what the responses were to them. 

[Nungali]

5 hours ago, Pilgrim said:

Not sure about a cool breeze but I think there is a new Sheriff in town and I am starting to like the way he talks  

 

 

Yeah Pilgrim  .... thats sure right !

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Pilgrim]

2 minutes ago, Nungali said:

 

 

Yeah Pilgrim  .... thats sure right !

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Best laugh I had all day thanks Pilgrim! 😁

[Nungali]

3 hours ago, ralis said:

 

TDB is not loading well. Neither on my phone, iPad or desktop. 

 

I just posted about that in tech

 

seems ok now .

[Pilgrim]

47 minutes ago, ralis said:

 

If you want to participate in the topic of this thread that is fine. Do you have anything to add?

He just did. The site owners actions and words define the site. They carry a strength no admin or participant  can.

[Nungali]

1 hour ago, Pilgrim said:

I participate on other forums and quite honestly the stuff that goes on here would have gotten people banned long ago.

 

Even the whiff or a hint of a whiff of political talk earns an immediate warning.

 

This site in my opinion needs some stricter guidelines but hey what do I know I am only trying to learn Daoism and it seems the chaotic the disrespectful and generally uncivilized behavior is part of the TAO or DAO as well from this site,  so meh not too impressed.

 

I will say this much other sites not even dedicated to spirituality conduct them selves far better than the behavior exhibited here.

 

Food for thought?  I doubt it.

 

 

 

yeah but  ......

 

 

Chapter  1 .

 

 

lesson  1

 

 

....   remember ?

[Nungali]

1 hour ago, cheya said:

It may serve to recall Nungali's recent post repeatedly in this thread:

(this time, for Stosh  )

 

 

 

I think its a nationistic   ( or country ) type problem  ..... down here , we used to being told  it all the time

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

if not ...

 

 

 

[Nungali]

1 hour ago, Earl Grey said:

Jeez louise, how hard is it to stay on topic? Why not just split the discussion into a new thread on "welcomeness fear of censorship" because we're talking so much about the basic rules and limitations that we are barely focused on the left here. 

 

Sean probably gone back on 'holidays' after this .

[ralis]

19 minutes ago, Pilgrim said:

He just did. The site owners actions and words define the site. They carry a strength no admin or participant  can.

 

The OP is very specific and Stosh is attempting to derail the thread. This always happens here! I will discuss this no more. Back to the topic at hand. 

[Earl Grey]

So moving on to something related to the topic, let's look at one of my favorite expressions of Left views: music, particular punk rock.

 

I love punk rock, from the Ramones to the Sex Pistols and X-Ray Spex, the Cramps, and so many more. I'll be discussing the music as a whole in following posts, but I'd like to start with the original punk band, the Ramones.

 

Most people think punk is synonymous with the Left. While this is a common theme in many political bands and punk rock songs in the 70s and 80s (long before skateboarders in the 90s turned it into bubblegum pop for kids who focused on piercings, tattoos, and thinking that watching MTV was rebellious), punk is not strictly Leftist nor is it exclusively used by the Left. 

 

For starters, Johnny Ramone was about as Right-Wing as one can get to the point he considered Reagan to be one of the greatest American presidents of all time and loved George W. Bush, thanking him specifically when they were inducted into the Rock and Roll Hall of Fame. 

 

His belief is that a true punk is a Republican, not some liberal self-entitled and self-righteous brat expecting handouts and welfare. It was a point of contention with Joey Ramone, who was exactly the opposite, and did not appreciate a lot of the jokes about Jews and liberals (both of which were Joey's identity) made by Johnny who said them more and more often around Joey just to piss him off. 

 

Johnny is quoted by The Observer as saying: "People drift towards liberalism at a young age, and I always hope they change when they see how the world really is."

 

Also another noteworthy quote: "To me, I think punk is right wing. What happened in the late ‘70s and early ‘80s was a lot of disaffected kids  -- the kind who would’ve been hippies a decade before –-  drifted into punk. But, when you think of who punks are, they’re greasers, people who didn’t fit in, but they didn’t back down either.  Who above all, love America. I’ve voted Republican ever since 1960 when Kennedy ran against Nixon. I’ve been with the conservative Republicans since I was eleven years old."

 

One political song written by Joey, "Bonzo goes to Bitburg" from 1986, was originally also supposed to be the title for the album that was eventually released as Animal Boy. It was a stab at Reagan who visited Bitburg, West Germany in May of 1985, and Johnny didn't want to play it often either because he didn't want to offend Reagan. Joey at this point had complete contempt for Johnny, not helped by the fact that in the 80s was when Johnny ended up marrying Linda, who before then was Joey's long-time girlfriend. 

 

The song in question with some lyrics: 

 

 

You've got to pick up the pieces
C'mon, sort your trash
You better pull yourself back together
Maybe you've got too much cash

Better call, call the law
When you gonna turn yourself in? Yeah
You're a politician
Don't become one of Hitler's children

Bonzo goes to Bitburg then goes out for a cup of tea
As I watched it on TV somehow it really bothered me
Drank in all the bars in town for an extended foreign policy
Pick up the pieces

My brain is hanging upside down
I need something to slow me down
Ooh yeah, my brain is hanging upside down
And I need something to slow me down

 

Shouldn't wish you happiness
Wish her the very best
Fifty thousand dollar dress
Shaking hands with your highness

See through you like cellophane
You watch the world complain
But you do it anyway
Who am I, am I to say

Bonzo goes to Bitburg then goes out for a cup of tea
As I watched it on TV somehow it really bothered me
Drank in all the bars in town for an extended foreign policy
Pick up the pieces

My brain is hanging upside down
I need something to slow me down
Ooh yeah, my brain is hanging upside down
And I need something to slow me down

 

If there's one thing that makes me sick
It's when someone tries to hide behind politics
I wish that time could go by fast
Somehow they manage to make it last

Ooh yeah, yeah, my brain is hanging upside down
I need something to slow me down
Ooh yeah, yeah, my brain is hanging upside down
And I need something to slow me down

Ooh yeah, yeah, my brain is hanging upside down
And I need something to slow me down
My brain is hanging upside down

 

Pretty direct stab at Reagan and the establishment, eh? 

Edited July 27, 2019 by Earl Grey