Are there any other leftists here? 👀

[Earl Grey]

32 minutes ago, MooNiNite said:

 

 

You think the gig economy is evil? Being able to work whenever you want? Some people see that as an innovation. Lastly, no one is forced to work gig jobs, many people actually PREFER it. It also has huge tax benefits as everything is a write off. 

 

You know Texas had their own public ride sharing company .. do you know how that worked out?

 

 

You obviously did not read the links I posted with actual research versus your platitudes, and you have a bizarre personal interpretation of economics and ethics.

Edited August 1, 2019 by Earl Grey

[ralis]

6 minutes ago, Earl Grey said:

 

Pro-Left with abominable treatment of laborers for Amazon and gig economy contractors with Uber and others?

 

With that kind of view you have of what is Left in name only with those companies, you probably are so Right-Wing that you believe Genghis Khan was a Liberal.

 

You still haven’t answered the part about economics. Strike two.

 

Will Mighty Casey hit a home run or embody the maxim of how pride cometh before the fall?

 

Amazon has destroyed Borders Books as well as most of Barnes and Noble, for starters. Sweat shops are what their distribution centers are where quotas prevail, bathroom breaks are usually taken in a trash can in the corner, no A/C. 

[Earl Grey]

4 minutes ago, ralis said:

anyone with an ounce of critical thinking will be able to elicit a few of the myriad problems. 

 

You are expecting too much of others already by asking them to think.

 

Most people who don’t see the problems are trying to defend their values and worship of their techie tribe, the Right-Wing, etc.

 

Like Nietzsche said, “Man created God in his own image” and people who idolize Silicon Valley and its feudalistic oppression of others don’t see reality, they change their interpretations of reality to fit into their narrative and ideals.

 

Fact: the system is unfair because it’s paying people less than they’re worth.

 

Fact: they are side-stepping labor laws and the health and well-being of laborers.

 

Fact: they don’t care.

[sean]

Tesla was also floated by billions in government grants and subsidies to make cars for rich people. * Camera cut to working-poor, literally hungry with stack of unpaid medical bills *

 

Sean

 

[ralis]

4 minutes ago, Earl Grey said:

 

You obviously did not read the links I posted with actual research versus your platitudes, and you have a bizarre personal interpretation of economics and ethics.

 

Amazon increased wages to 15/hr, then cut hours. Bezos built Amazon on the WalMart model in which loss leaders draw customers to buy more since they are getting a deal. I never set foot in Walmart!

[Earl Grey]

Just now, ralis said:

 

Amazon increased wages to 15/hr, then cut hours. Bezos built Amazon on the WalMart model in which loss leaders draw customers to buy more since they are getting a deal. I never set foot in Walmart!

 

And Moonie still has the audacity to say that those companies support the Left? =D

[ralis]

Just now, Earl Grey said:

 

And Moonie still has the audacity to say that those companies support the Left? =D

 

I think Apple is still using sweat shops in SE Asia? 

[Earl Grey]

5 minutes ago, ralis said:

 

I think Apple is still using sweat shops in SE Asia? 

 

Among other things, but they also are doing this sadly: https://www.top10vpn.com/news/censorship/in-china-apple-is-not-the-privacy-advocate-it-claims-to-be/

 

A reminder that caring about labor rights means having a wider scope of understanding as this is already contributing to worse things such as systematic oppression in the name of profit and access to a market.

[ralis]

51 minutes ago, MooNiNite said:

 

Amazon, Facebook, some of the most technologically advanced companies in the world. Google. Some people actually appreciate these companies and what they do. Want to do something new? Now is better than ever to be an internet entrepreneur. Many of these mega companies lean left and support socialism, because they are the ones who will win the government contracts, so you're not actually going against them. Obama in 2012 passed the Citizens United bill, do you know what that does?

 

What about government run programs? I hope you see the inefficiency and waste. Does that factor into your assessment? We have Nasa vs Space X and Blue Origin. How about the F-35 program (over 1 trillion for a plane comparable to the euro fighter)?

 

You think the gig economy is evil? Being able to work whenever you want? Some people see that as an innovation. Lastly, no one is forced to work gig jobs, many people actually PREFER it. It also has huge tax benefits as everything is a write off. 

 

You know Texas had their own public ride sharing company .. do you know how that worked out?

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Be self employed, sleep till noon and set your own hours is the draw of the gig economy. Turns out that Uber which is a multi billion dollar company is scamming their workers. How’s that for the gig! All for 9.21/hr after expenses. 

 

 

 

https://www.marketwatch.com/story/this-is-how-much-uber-drivers-really-make-2018-05-15

 

 

[Earl Grey]

15 minutes ago, ralis said:

 

Be self employed, sleep till noon and set your own hours is the draw of the gig economy. Turns out that Uber which is a multi billion dollar company is scamming their workers. How’s that for the gig! All for 9.21/hr after expenses. 

 

 

 

https://www.marketwatch.com/story/this-is-how-much-uber-drivers-really-make-2018-05-15

 

 

 

I have loads of research on this that my partners and I worked on and every time, SV techies and Right-Wingers seem to dismiss facts and resort to ad hominem attacks or criticizing the source of information, and then straw man arguments or side-stepping to misdirect.

 

The biggest fact they overlook is that other people are unhealthy, unhappy, and unequal—and to the SV techies and Right, it’s okay because it remains convenient for them.

Edited August 1, 2019 by Earl Grey

[Nungali]

You know what I hate ?

 

"Economic rationalism '  ....... if it makes money , its 'rational'

 

It closed down old soldiers homes  , dispersed their 'little communities - about all they had left - and relocated them .

 

It shut down nurses homes and nursing homes and old people's facilities .

 

Why ?  Because they where not making enough money - 'unviable ' .

 

How the hell did people start to think that looking after old soldiers, the sick and the elderly  was SUPPOSED  to be about  making money  ?  How did that happen ?       The "board' didnt like it ?  The 'shareholders' voted to 'invest elsewhere' .

 

I saw a doco about an old school ,  full on USA capitalist  ( sorry, cant remember the details ) ... he made a CRAZY amount of money . But wanted kids and could not have them. So he and his wife adopted some .  And some more ... and more . And then it spread, eventually he had all sorts of things running, orphanage, school , hospital, accommodation, scholarships , etc .  A huge corp .  Well, if you got enough money, you can do what you want  - even nice things .

 

He died and it continued for some time, turned into a big biz with a board and shareholders .   Until a few years back .    Not making enough money .   So the  shareholders of the corp decided to  dissolve split up and sell off the man's dream .

 

and now, I am thinking of 'Weather Underground '   - way to protest !     Dont go and hassle the office building or have a march and wave placards.   get into the files of the board meeting ... somehow .... find out who actually voted for whatever shit is going on . And take your protest to them directly 'Weather Underground' style  .... KABLOWIE !

 

Note, for those unfamiliar  WU (as far as I know ) never injured or hurt anyone , nor where any of them ever caught .   Some handed themselves in  long afterwards .  One   got caught but that was more in a Black Panther operation.

 

Now, a bit more of that .... the faceless people  voting on their boards and holdings might think  twice before they go along with some shitfull vote .  ( like , no, lets not spend money on fixing that dam .... its only Brazil  )

 

 

 

 

 

[MegaMind]

9 hours ago, dawei said:

 

that's fine to explain the goodness of nordic areas but there is no explanation why and how it worked.  And then explain how that can be applied to the US, if possible.

 

I am not sure why you end it with a reference to anal sex?   Isn't this homophobic or not, or just a prison cliche?   I thought such talk was now against the rules.   I hope this is not what the website is now attracting.  

 

https://www.pgpf.org/chart-archive/0053_defense-comparison

 

 

 

 

 

https://www.businessinsider.com/the-war-on-terror-has-cost-the-us-nearly-6-trillion-2018-11

 

https://www.militarytimes.com/news/pentagon-congress/2018/11/14/price-tag-of-the-war-on-terror-will-top-6-trillion-soon/

 

6 Trillion USD spent on the war on terror by 2018 estimates.

 

https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2018/11/wars-terror-killed-million-people-study-181109080620011.html

 

500,000 killed for oil and mineral resources.

 

 

https://www.americanprogress.org/issues/criminal-justice/reports/2018/06/27/452819/ending-war-drugs-numbers/

 

 

Since 1971 we have spent 1 Trillion USD on the war on (some) drugs.

 

 

7 Trillion dollars we might as well have doused in gasoline and burned to the ground.

 

7 Trillion dollars literally just wasted on killing a half a million people to harvest their oil and mineral resources, and to lock people up for smoking weed.

 

 

 

https://www.americanactionforum.org/research/what-it-costs-go-100-percent-renewable/

 

https://www.renewableenergyworld.com/articles/2017/03/the-old-dirty-us-electric-grid-would-cost-5-trillion-to-replace-where-should-infrastructure-spending-go.html

 

5.7 Trillion would be enough to move the USA to 100% solar power.  Concentrated solar power with molten salt energy storage like the Crescent Dunes Solar Energy Project would provide power 24 x 7 even when the sun is not shining.   We could produce enough energy to power everything including transportation with electric cars.

 

I am going to post another reply to this about the banking crisis and how Iceland handled it.

 

 

 

 

Edited August 1, 2019 by MildMouse23

[MegaMind]

7 hours ago, dawei said:

 

that's fine to explain the goodness of nordic areas but there is no explanation why and how it worked.  And then explain how that can be applied to the US, if possible.

 

I am not sure why you end it with a reference to anal sex?   Isn't this homophobic or not, or just a prison cliche?   I thought such talk was now against the rules.   I hope this is not what the website is now attracting.  

 

 

When the banking crisis hit the USA,  we decided the best course of action was to print money and give that newly printed money to the banks that caused the problem.  They were "too big to fail" after all.

 

The banks made loans they knew were not going to be repaid, in many cases they never even verified income of applicants, they resold these as mortgage backed securities, and collateralized debt obligations. They marketed them as AAA rated super safe high return investments,  they knew they were bad investments, and when it all came crashing down on them, we the taxpayers were required to socialize their losses.

 

Banks gamble and win?  Privatize the profits. 

 

Banks gamble and lose? Socialize the losses.

 

For the money we printed out of thin air and gave to the banks, we could have paid off every mortgage and subprime loan in America.

 

 

 

 

 

In Iceland when the banking crisis hit do you know what they did?

 

They said the banks caused this, the banks can accept responsibility for it, and the banks can fail if need be.

 

The criminal bankers that caused the chaos were thrown in jail.

 

Iceland recovered quicker than the rest of Europe and is much better off now as a result.

 

https://grapevine.is/news/2018/02/07/36-bankers-96-years-in-jail/

 

 

 

 

Edited August 1, 2019 by MildMouse23

[MegaMind]

5 hours ago, MooNiNite said:

 

Its basic economics why socialism doesnt work.

 

You missed the part about the Nordic countries having the least corrupt governments, and highest quality of life.

 

https://www.weforum.org/agenda/2016/07/these-countries-have-the-highest-quality-of-life

 

https://www.weforum.org/agenda/2019/02/least-corrupt-countries-transparency-international-2018/

 

 

[MegaMind]

5 hours ago, MooNiNite said:

 

Amazon, Facebook, some of the most technologically advanced companies in the world. Google. Some people actually appreciate these companies and what they do. Want to do something new? Now is better than ever to be an internet entrepreneur. Many of these mega companies lean left and support socialism, because they are the ones who will win the government contracts, so you're not actually going against them. Obama in 2012 passed the Citizens United bill, do you know what that does?

 

What about government run programs? I hope you see the inefficiency and waste. Does that factor into your assessment? We have Nasa vs Space X and Blue Origin. How about the F-35 program (over 1 trillion for a plane comparable to the euro fighter)?

 

You think the gig economy is evil? Being able to work whenever you want? Some people see that as an innovation. Lastly, no one is forced to work gig jobs, many people actually PREFER it. It also has huge tax benefits as everything is a write off. 

 

You know Texas had their own public ride sharing company .. do you know how that worked out?

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

https://www.inc.com/minda-zetlin/doordash-tipping-tip-scandal-guaranteed-minimum-tony-xu.html

 

Doordash keeps the tips people give to their delivery people, or did at least. 

 

Many people driving for Uber don't break even considering depreciation and maintenance on their vehicle.

 

People are just trying to survive for the most part.

[Walker]

4 hours ago, ralis said:

 

Amazon has destroyed Borders Books as well as most of Barnes and Noble, for starters. Sweat shops are what their distribution centers are where quotas prevail, bathroom breaks are usually taken in a trash can in the corner, no A/C. 

 

Anyone who doesn't understand this (@MooNiNite@MooNiNite@MooNiNite) should read some of Alana Semuel's excellent investigative reporting on this, especially here and here. 

 

P.S., another name drop, I had a beer with her last year in DC and she was cool as hell. So much fun to be had in the world when you go, you know, outdoors and stuff. 

 

[Earl Grey]

16 minutes ago, Walker said:

 

Anyone who doesn't understand this (@MooNiNite@MooNiNite@MooNiNite) should read some of Alana Semuel's excellent investigative reporting on this, especially here and here. 

 

P.S., another name drop, I had a beer with her last year in DC and she was cool as hell. So much fun to be had in the world when you go, you know, outdoors and stuff. 

 

 

https://www.buzzfeednews.com/article/carolineodonovan/how-ubers-hard-charging-corporate-culture-left-employees#.rualmvNx2

[MegaMind]

8 hours ago, dawei said:

 

that's fine to explain the goodness of nordic areas but there is no explanation why and how it worked.  And then explain how that can be applied to the US, if possible.

 

I am not sure why you end it with a reference to anal sex?   Isn't this homophobic or not, or just a prison cliche?   I thought such talk was now against the rules.   I hope this is not what the website is now attracting.  

 

As a recap:

 

We spend more than the next top 7 countries combined on military spending each year.  The war on terror has cost us 6 trillion so far, and the war on drugs at least 1 trillion.  

 

It would only take 6 trillion to completely power the usa with concentrated solar power and molten salt energy storage to provide 24 x 7 power even when the sun isn't shining, and we would have enough energy to all drive electric cars and have dirt cheap power bills.

 

We could have paid off all the mortgages in the usa.  Instead we printed money and gave to the banks which caused the problem by lending money to people they knew couldn't afford to pay their loans and then lying about it and making it sound like a safe bet and reselling it to investors. 

 

We are hemorrhaging trillions of dollars to kill half a million people for their oil resources and incarcerate more people than china for non violent drug offences, and we could have socialized health care, education, and clean 24 x 7 solar energy. 

 

By the way Norway produces most of their energy from hydroelectric, and Iceland from geothermal.

 

This whole situation is so laughably absurd and surreal it's hard sometimes to come to terms with the fact it is reality. 

 

 

Edited August 1, 2019 by MildMouse23

[MegaMind]

Edited August 1, 2019 by MildMouse23

[dawei]

10 hours ago, MildMouse23 said:

Heterosexual couples use strap ons as well, but my point was we are getting screwed compared to the Nordic countries.

 

Of course that is your meaning but you using a very sexually crude way to say that.  And the innuendo suggest getting screw is bad.  Put the two together and you should understand my point.   Using a sexually graphic way of making this point used border on being against the rules:

 

 

 

Urban Definition:

 

(( content removed after issue resolve ))

 

Carry on.

 

Edited August 1, 2019 by dawei

[MegaMind]

 

 

[rideforever]

.

Edited August 1, 2019 by rideforever

[MegaMind]

My friend in Norway works 4 days a week delivering mail and earns $50,000 USD a year, and manages to have $1,500 of discretionary income left over to save after all his bills and expenses are paid.

 

Nordic countries have the least corrupt governments and highest standard of living.

 

Norway and Iceland produce almost all their electricity from renewable sources.

 

Nordic countries offer socialized higher education and healthcare.

 

Nordic countries provide gracious paternity leave.

 

Nordic countries provide gracious unemployment benefits.

 

You would never have to worry about being homeless in most Nordic countries.

 

You don't have to hire a lawyer to appeal your denied disability if you become disabled. 

 

 

Compare that to the USA.

 

Most people can't work 4 days at a low skilled job and earn 50,000 USD a year, much less save $1,500 USD a month after their bills are paid.

 

The majority of bankruptcies are caused by medical bills.

 

People dying of cancer without insurance are given pain medicine at the emergency room and sent home to die unless they can fund raise enough for treatment.

 

People are refused disability even when their kidneys shut down, and have to hire lawyers to appeal their case at a major expense.

 

Going to college requires going into sometimes hundreds of thousands of dollars in debt.   The price of tuition at my local university is $30,000 USD per year.

 

Most people live pay-check to pay-check.

 

People are left to starve and die in the streets if they lose their job and have no family or friends to rely on.

 

We spend our money socializing losses incurred when banks gamble and lose, and we allow them to keep profits when they gamble and win.

 

We have spent 6 trillion on the war on terror based on knowingly false information and 1 trillion on the war on drugs with absolutely nothing to show for accept for 500,000 dead brown skinned people those don't matter though right?

 

We incarcerate more of our population than Russia and China combined.

 

We lock people up for non violent drug offences.

 

Police brutality is a real problem that largely goes ignored, people are routinely killed even following police commands explicitly.

 

We are caging immigrants and their children like dogs at the border and we are doing this as a warning to discourage others from coming here.

 

I think George Carlin above said it best, go to time stamp 4:50.

 

 

Edited August 2, 2019 by MildMouse23

[MegaMind]

7 hours ago, dawei said:

 

Of course that is your meaning but you using a very sexually crude way to say that.  And the innuendo suggest getting screw is bad.  Put the two together and you should understand my point.   Using a sexually graphic way of making this point used border on being against the rules:

 

 

 

Urban Definition:

 

Fucked in the Asssex

1. Getting raped anally by an extremely homosexual man, or a really freaky girlfriend with a strap-on. 
2. Getting fucked over on a deal or something of the sort.

 

 

Maybe the new normal allows this.

 

Carry on.

 

 

 

I've gone back and edited my posts because somehow it offends you.

 

I feel what you posted in response is far more offensive than saying we are hecked over with a big red white and blue baseball bat by our government.   

 

My intention was to convey we as a country are being exploited, and the Nordic countries have a much higher quality of life.

Edited August 1, 2019 by MildMouse23

[cheya]

@MildMouse23, you seem to be under a misconception. Dawei enforced the guidelines Sean set up with careful consult with Sean, who was very busy with his life and had not much time for TDB. Thankfully, that has changed, and Sean wants to change what's happening here. But it was not because the mods were not following his directions as best they could. 

 

So please lay off the old mod team. It is a very difficult job. You have no idea! And they have done the best they could under difficult circumstances. PLUS it's all volunteer service. We owe them a huge debt of gratitude.

 

Making such a huge shift in the parameters here, it's smart to get a new mod team on board... but not at all because the old team did anything wrong according to the guidelines set up at the time.

 

(Sean feel free to correct me if you disagree...)